Move to make health insurance mandatory for long-stay visas

[meechai]

57 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

The expats only response should be......Thank You Sir may I have another...lol

No there is the other option....No Thank You...Goodbye ????

[Pattaya46]

41 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Once if it’s introduced I am sure it affect all Expats no matter what type of Visa they have.

if there is such a small percentage of Expats as you say why introduce it in the first place ?

It was already requirement for the Non O-X

and I would bet even lot of less O-X than O-A...

So why trying to find logic in this move ? 

[Mapguy]

3 hours ago, maprao said:

You won't be refused treatment. As for being bled depends in which local health authority you are.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Cheating is cheating!  I am NOT holier-than-thou, but how can people justify it ?!

[Jumbo1968]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

It was already requirement for the Non O-X

and I would bet even lot of less O-X than O-A...

So why trying to find logic in this move ? 

Statistics might show that non payment of healthcare is more prevalent among Expats but Thailand has as yet come up with figures for unpaid medical bills wether but Expats or tourists.

 

Health tourism costs 0.3% of NHS spending, the UK government has estimated that treating deliberate health tourists and those taking advantage costs around £100 to £300 million a year.

[Mapguy]

3 hours ago, maprao said:

You won't be refused treatment. As for being bled depends in which local health authority you are.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What does "being bled" mean?  No, you won't be denied treatment.  You'll be stabilized, and if you have any civic responsibility you won't complain about being charged whatever the rate is for what is necessary.

 

For whatever reason, too many feel "deprived" or "cheated" by the NHS.  Well, in a democracy such as the UK, you have your responsibilities as well as your vote.  The NHS is 60 years old!!  There seems to be a consensus!!

 

YOUR cheating becomes at whatever level an unfair burden on the system which obviously because of many factors.  Cheating on it by expats at the very least doesn't contribute to the welfare of the common weal!

 

Shame on it!  A spark of independence leaving the country and/or not contributing over the years (as many expats who have benefited from various expat tax benefits or dodges --- and now you want another taste of mother's milk?

 

Grow up!!

 

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Is it really that simple? From what I gather, it's usual for UK hospitals to ask for proof of residential status.

 

 

No they don't.

 

Especially if you are an older white Anglo-Saxon looking type.

 

I was, nobody was interested in my residential status.

[Jip99]

15 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Cheating is cheating!  I am NOT holier-than-thou, but how can people justify it ?!

 

 

You sound holier than thou.

 

You have a choice - you play the system or you let it play you.

 

Up to you as they say around here.

 

I have paid tax/NI since 1973. Now that I choose top live in Thailand the system say s "Whoa, hold on a minute"

 

Someone born in England but left at age 16 to reside/work overseas but returned to the UK a few months ago is eligible, and I am not.

 

That unfair system is one I will play and "cheat" by your definition. By my definition I will claim to meet current rules (if asked).

[Mapguy]

13 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Statistics might show that non payment of healthcare is more prevalent among Expats but Thailand has as yet come up with figures for unpaid medical bills wether but Expats or tourists.

 

Health tourism costs 0.3% of NHS spending, the UK government has estimated that treating deliberate health tourists and those taking advantage costs around £100 to £300 million a year.

That's a big number!  I wonder if it is high or low.  Given my friends who are not embarrassed to admit cheating and what I read on ThaiVisa, I'd place my bet long on higher than that number!!!

 

Whatever the reason, it is cheating.  Many have apparently made unfortunate life choices.  That is their problem, and I sympathize with it, but they should seek charity--- which isn't cheating.  Others, to their shame, could certainly afford to pay for insurance or treatment.

 

[Jumbo1968]

1 minute ago, Mapguy said:

That's a big number!  I wonder if it is high or low.  Given my friends who are not embarrassed to admit cheating and what I read on ThaiVisa, I'd place my bet long on higher than that number!!!

 

Whatever the reason, it is cheating.  Many have apparently made unfortunate life choices.  That is their problem, and I sympathize with it, but they should seek charity--- which isn't cheating.  Others, to their shame, could certainly afford to pay for insurance or treatment.

 

I think you will find the figures are for non UK/Non EU people who have treatment and disappear before or cannot pay the bill.

There was a case of a pregnant Nigerian woman who arrived in the UK and wracked up a bill of £330k.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38809530

 

 

[Mapguy]

Jip 99,

 

You've had your vote.  You've had an opportunity to make your life choices.  Blaming the "system" is like claiming mum and dad won't let you play outside whenever you want or stay out as late as you want!  That's not an NHS problem.  It is your problem.

 

You have had an opportunity to speak out before and since 1973.  You have apparently decided to leave the country and the process.  Well, your choice.  Fine.  But choices have  responsibilities and consequences.  The plea that you have "paid your dues" is a very weak excuse.

[Mapguy]

5 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I think you will find the figures are for non UK/Non EU people who have treatment and disappear before or cannot pay the bill.

There was a case of a pregnant Nigerian woman who arrived in the UK and wracked up a bill of £330k.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38809530

 

 

And, accepting your example --- a real headline (probably The Sun) if there ever was one, confirmed or not,  that STILL does NOT justify cheating.

 

Nigeria, was it?  Interesting historical reference to nasty colonialism!  And I won't touch any question of racism!

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Mapguy

[Jumbo1968]

3 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

And, accepting your example --- a real headline (probably The Sun) if there ever was one, confirmed or not,  that STILL does NOT justify cheating.

 

Nigeria, was it?  Interesting historical reference to nasty colonialism!  And I won't touch any question of racism!

 

She wasn’t cheating, intentionally, the babies arrived prematurely.

Why shouldn’t anyone like my self who contributed 50 years of NI and Income Tax, still paying Income Tax be cheats ?

It was George Osborne who made people into cheats by introducing a law which penalised hard working people who contributed to the system for years.

[Mapguy]

1 hour ago, holy cow cm said:

Yes it would. 

And it would certainly be interesting to compare other economic factors like per capita GDP, relative health care budgets given two national health care systems, of which the Thai system is a very poor second with ability to provide for the population.

 

I have seen more short-line rationalization for cheating than any reasonable claim for being screwed by the NHS or Thailand.

 

But wait, this is ThaiVisa!!

[maprao]

What does "being bled" mean?  No, you won't be denied treatment.  You'll be stabilized, and if you have any civic responsibility you won't complain about being charged whatever the rate is for what is necessary.

 

For whatever reason, too many feel "deprived" or "cheated" by the NHS.  Well, in a democracy such as the UK, you have your responsibilities as well as your vote.  The NHS is 60 years old!!  There seems to be a consensus!!

 

YOUR cheating becomes at whatever level an unfair burden on the system which obviously because of many factors.  Cheating on it by expats at the very least doesn't contribute to the welfare of the common weal!

 

Shame on it!  A spark of independence leaving the country and/or not contributing over the years (as many expats who have benefited from various expat tax benefits or dodges --- and now you want another taste of mother's milk?

 

Grow up!!

 

Relax your blood pressure....

How can you survive in Thailand with such high moral standards?

You will be stabilized spelt with a "z" tells me you are an American. Also having to ask what does "being bled" mean is an indication that you are not a Brit.

 

The NHS is what it is. The best in the World

 

If you are a UK National please accept my apologies in advance

 

[emoji2957][emoji2957][emoji2957][emoji2957][emoji2957]

 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Mapguy]

Sorry to sound "holier than thou."  Just calling a spade a spade!

 

 

[Mapguy]

2 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

It would be interesting too see a comparison off unpaid medical bills by Expats as opposed to tourists who come to Thailand either with no or inadequate insurance.

Well, I suppose that might be interesting, actually more so as it might possibly help to determine future policy.  It could, perhaps, lead Thailand to tax tourists some higher amount to cover the cost of long-stay health insurance drifters whose bad life choices leave them vulnerable. Wonder what the impact of tourism would be!!!

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Mapguy

[Mapguy]

2 hours ago, fforest1 said:

So any expat who does not have citizenship is nothing more than a groveling boot licker........And no matter what Thailand dishes-out.... The expats only response should be......Thank You Sir may I have another...lol

"Groveling boot licker!"  Have to love this one!!  What, pray tell, is your home country?  Would you, as a foreigner, be welcome there?  And what boots might you have to lick --- and good luck maintaining tongue health!

 

[Mapguy]

You clearly value empathy!  And you will no doubt find it.  But you shouldn't if you are not a charity case.

 

Policy is complex.  The country is a democracy, however; and you pay the rent, you don't short the rules so long as you can get away with it.

 

If you left the country --- and many who have and do have benefit of very generous tax policy benefits --- then that was your choice (or your parents, if you were a minor).

 

I am not holier than thou, as I have pointed out before, but some "system playing" gets morally questionable.  Nobody is going to hell for it but making their lives more affordable and pleasurable ultimately at an ultimate national disadvantage of others is simply not good citizenry, at the very least.

 

Or, perhaps, you admire America's Donald Trump--- which I doubt --- who is the ultimate gamesman for self-advantage?

 

 

 

[David Walden]

On 12/24/2018 at 7:40 AM, Joe Mcseismic said:

This is incorrect. AIA (or is it AIG?) will insure you past 70 years old. Pacific Cross will insure you. No one will insure pre-existing conditions, but, that just leaves another zillion conditions that you can be struck down with. It's not cheap, but, then the Thai government wants spenders, not Cheap Charlies.....

I wrote to Pacific Cross 2 years ago when this subject first came up.  My question was "do you have medical insurance that would satisfy the new proposed requirement that Thailand is suggesting as a minimum requirement to enter the country for long-term stayers" I provided the details, the answer was a polite one word "NO."  Pacific Cross Insurance is a brokerage insurance provider.  They act as agents for dozens of Insurance companies worldwide.  They have a wide-ranging selection of Insurance companies they can place your cover with and can only provide a yearly coverage for hospital and medical cover.  Depending on the cover required a ballpark figure starts at about US $10,000 per year.  Cover to include all pre-existing matters and subject to review starts at about US$20.000 per year...I rest my case. 

[Mapguy]

Ouch! 

 

Not knowing any more than the very general terms of your post, It appears that Pacific Cross is one broker that couldn't be helpful. It appears that they have avoided lifetime limits and guaranteed renewability.  That is unfortunate.  Starting rates at US$10k per year seems extraordinarily high.  You must have detailed quite a generous level of coverage.  But not knowing specifically what you requested, assisting conditions, age, and other pertinent variables, it really isn't simple to come to any valid conclusion.

 

You sound to be at some advanced age eligible for senior rates of one sort or other.  If not, many countries have provisions for those who can not qualify by age but not all, I suppose.

 

Your case is hardly "at rest," certainly if you have no insurance.  So, what plans did you make for self-insurance?

[Mapguy]

1 hour ago, maprao said:

Relax your blood pressure....

How can you survive in Thailand with such high moral standards?

You will be stabilized spelt with a "z" tells me you are an American. Also having to ask what does "being bled" mean is an indication that you are not a Brit.

 

The NHS is what it is. The best in the World

 

If you are a UK National please accept my apologies in advance

 

 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Don't see the necessity for any apology!

 

My thanks for your concern about my health! Fortunately, my blood pressure is within acceptable limits for my age if somewhat borderline on occasion!  I do tend to get a bit overwrought from time to time with the self-serving posts of too many ThaiVisa regulars, actually fewer, it seems, on this thread than on some others!

 

I agree that the NHS is a fine service.  The French system, for one, is perhaps better, especially for expatriates, but such is policy democratically determined and otherwise neither here nor there.  The NHS unfortunately is much short-changed budget-wize --- Oops! "budget-wise!"---  these days and in danger of increasingly severe under-staffing because of Brexit threats already being realised.  Have you seen the recent article on short staff at King's in London?  Was it The Guardian?  There is already a serious problem!

Edited December 31, 2018 by Mapguy

[BestB]

22 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Ouch! 

 

Not knowing any more than the very general terms of your post, It appears that Pacific Cross is one broker that couldn't be helpful. It appears that they have avoided lifetime limits and guaranteed renewability.  That is unfortunate.  Starting rates at US$10k per year seems extraordinarily high.  You must have detailed quite a generous level of coverage.  But not knowing specifically what you requested, assisting conditions, age, and other pertinent variables, it really isn't simple to come to any valid conclusion.

 

You sound to be at some advanced age eligible for senior rates of one sort or other.  If not, many countries have provisions for those who can not qualify by age but not all, I suppose.

 

Your case is hardly "at rest," certainly if you have no insurance.  So, what plans did you make for self-insurance?

Pacific Cross is known to be rather picky one when it comes to offering covers. They want healthy people, they look at BMI as well as smoker and drinker or not, as well as requesting xrays and blood tests prior to offering you full cover.

 

So basically unless you are in a tip top shape, they will not cover you or they will with a massive premium loading and loads of exclusions

[zydeco]

On 12/29/2018 at 7:38 PM, Mapguy said:

However, the Thai government is in a quandary as to how to handle foreigners who have been and apparently continue to be burdens on the Thai health care system

If insurance does not cover pre-existing conditions, how is having people buy insurance going to solve this problem? 

[Mapguy]

A pregnant question!  The saddest answer is that a person might be a victim of his or her life's choices.  Not a happy way to celebrate a new year.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Pacific Cross is known to be rather picky one when it comes to offering covers........

 

So basically unless you are in a tip top shape, they will not cover you or they will with a massive premium loading and loads of exclusions

If they will with a massive premium and loads of exclusions then this would be the price to pay. Maybe there are less picky ones. But at least this is one way to stay - better than if there were no option at all as some seem to suggest.

[JimmyJ]

8 hours ago, Mapguy said:

Jip 99,

 

You've had your vote.  You've had an opportunity to make your life choices.  Blaming the "system" is like claiming mum and dad won't let you play outside whenever you want or stay out as late as you want!  That's not an NHS problem.  It is your problem.

 

You have had an opportunity to speak out before and since 1973.  You have apparently decided to leave the country and the process.  Well, your choice.  Fine.  But choices have  responsibilities and consequences.  The plea that you have "paid your dues" is a very weak excuse.

 

Good you let us know that:

 

"I am NOT holier-than-thou".

 

If "NOT" wasn't in caps you would have fooled me.

 

 

"I am not holier than thou"

 

"Sorry to sound 'holier than thou.' "

 

"I am NOT holier-than-thou".

 

It appears that actually you do know exactly what you are.

Edited December 31, 2018 by JimmyJ

[AAArdvark]

This may have been mentioned earlier.  The O-X visa is a long-term visa and it already requires health insurance.

 

http://www.thaiembassy.ca/en/visiting-thailand/visas/types-visas-periods-stay-fees/visa-ox-10yrs-long-stay

[sirineou]

18 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

On 12/30/2018 at 12:40 PM, sirineou said:

That's how insurance works

Usually you have a choice whether to play that game

Sure you do. you can leave , you can not come to Thailand. Nobody is forcing you to come to Thailand. 

[scubascuba3]

Sure you do. you can leave , you can not come to Thailand. Nobody is forcing you to come to Thailand. 

Old line and if insurance is compulsory a lot of people will go elsewhere, which is fine all round, apart from the Thais who rely on those people to make money

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

Sure you do. you can leave , you can not come to Thailand. Nobody is forcing you to come to Thailand. 

Old line and if insurance is compulsory a lot of people will go elsewhere, which is fine all round, apart from the Thais who rely on those people to make money

I am not necessarily  for or against the proposed insurance requirement for visitors.

My above quoted  post is out of context of a conversation I had with another poster that went something like this, and I paraphrase : 

Poster: "why should healthy people subsidise the unhealthy"

My response: "That's how insurance works, and even healthy people get into accidents"

Poster in response to the "that's how insurance works" :

" I should not be forced to play that game " 

My response:"No one is forcing you, you have the option to leave or not come here"

 

And indeed , This is Thailand's decision, Right or wrong, if we don't like it, we can leave, or not come at all 

 

My personal opinion is that Thailand should allow long stay expats to buy into the Thai government health system. It would provide an additional income stream for the Thai system, and would IMO be profitable because many expats would go back to their country for major health issues anyway.

 and provide travel health insurance for visitors again through the Thai health system.

I don't trust private health insurance companies.   

Edited January 1, 2019 by sirineou