Update: New Thai immigration rules for income!

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I don't think that the immigration officers get money from Thailand Elite visas. The company behind Thailand Elite is owned by the government, so the immigration officers will just follow the rules and don't try to get some extra money from them.

Oh don't spoil his fun. If you asked the guy what is a solar eclipse, he might say that is when an agent arranges for the moon to get between the sun and the earth.

[fforest1]

30 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You don’t need to have the “exact income” 65/40K are minimums. Send a bit extra to cover fluctuations or keep some cash in the bank and use the combination method.

A bit extra?......With the way western currencies are falling I think you would need a lot extra..... 

[Lovethailandelite]

6 minutes ago, jackdd said:

I don't think that the immigration officers get money from Thailand Elite visas. The company behind Thailand Elite is owned by the government, so the immigration officers will just follow the rules and don't try to get some extra money from them.

 

 

Correct. Thailand Elite is a solely owned subsidiary of the

Tourism Authority of Thailand

 

[elviajero]

13 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

Would that require leaving the country to work? If you extend and do not leave for an entire year, how to justify income?

 

Then, if you do have to leave all the time (appearances), why extend at all?

 

If there is no question asked about the retirement income source, will they really just accept married guys 40k per month transfers?

Currently you don't have to specify the source of the income, just the amount, so it's not really an issue. And even if you have to specify the income I don't see why they wouldn't accept any foreign income, even from work.

 

 

Quote

Say I am working here illegally, I can easily transfer money overseas and back. Claim I am working online...

 

Yes it will cost money to do this but it will take away the need to go through all their current BS to validate local income...

Most people working online get their income paid in their 'home' country and could simply make a monthly transfer. That will, however, throw up potential tax liabilities once they're resident.

Edited January 5, 2019 by elviajero

[fforest1]

34 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yeap....a policy change of requiring the monthly international transfers will no doubt negatively impact those with passive income from Thai sources.  Just as those with "all" income from outside Thailand in needing to do one (or more) transfer per month in terms of fees, not needing Bt65/Bt40K per month to actually live on, etc.   Just a lot of things not good for many people if needing to do a monthly international transfer.

 

But TI is looking for the  "best" method that will minimize the number of ways to beat the system, maximize the probability people "really" have the required income, and it's easy for TI.  

  

Until the rules are applied evenly to ALL countries....Immigration honestly could care less about what income any one has....Either they care about ALL countries or they care about No countries....

[SooKee]

1 hour ago, zoza said:

if you want strange try TransferWise to Kasikorn ''Dummy Branch'' is the Bank my money comes from according to KK, ok I get a letter from KK

but it does not look great on the bank statements. 

Out of interest I just checked back a few statements online from Kasikorn and as you say, each of my transfers in that I checked over the last 4 months shows 'Dummy Branch', all that is up until the most recent one, done at the end of last month.  That one shows up as 'International Trade and Factoring Centre' and shows a transaction ID.  Wonder if they've had complaints over the term 'Dummy Branch' for other reasons and had to switch to a more professional and meaningful  source label.  Not perfect (but at least it says international) and it's better than 'dummy branch' (it also doesn't show the source as BKK Bank!), provided the source label stays in use.  I'm guessing (hoping) printed statements would be the same.

Edited January 5, 2019 by SooKee

[JESSVANPELT]

not one new thing on this post, The US embassy said the same in mid December

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I'm not sure what the concern is using TW into Kasikorn bank. What is posted here and has been said elsewhere is just 65K a month coming into an account, not anything about showing it came from abroad.  Which will be good for those who fund their retirements through passive income (rentals income or investment income etc) inside Thailand.

 

If however there is a need to show foreign source if the fund, each transfer into Kasikorn generated something called a "Credit Advice" and you can arrange to get copies of them. I believe you can also arrange to get a copy on a standing basis. Call the central number and ask about it.  Even if (as seems likely) it will not be necessary for extension of stay purposes it is IMO a good idea to have the records to show that your funds came from abroad just in case. For example, if yo uever needed to send a large amount out of the country.

I have seen the draft copy of the thai language amendments to the Police order 138/2557 concerning the proof of funds when using the income method for extensions... of stays based on being over 50, being married to a thai & raising half-thai children. It was issued on the 21st and is stamped the 26th of Dec.

Now that police order is different from the one 327/2557 in so far as they spell out different things (and the same things different ways). The 138/2557 is the supporting documents and provisos for extensions and 327/2557 is the Criteria and Conditions. You really use them in conjunction with each other but all I have is the first one.

The banked money method is unchanged, the requisite funds in a thai bank account in your name for the seasoning period before you apply for your extension.

-For countries that still issue the income affidavit they will still be accepted like normal.

-For countries that don't issue them any more you need to show 40K baht (for marriage/raising kids) per month (every month). This can be in the form of tax statements based on employment here in thailand OR in transfers to a thai bank account from overseas for 12 months before you apply for your extension and for retirement you need to show 65K baht a month per month (every month) for 12 months before you apply for your extension.

[zoza]

3 minutes ago, SooKee said:

Out of interest I just checked back a few statements online from Kasikorn and as you say, each of my transfers in that I checked over the last 4 months shows 'Dummy Branch', all up until the most recent one done at the end of last month.  That one shows up as 'International Trade and Factoring Centre' and shows a transaction ID.  Wonder if they've had complaints over the term 'Dummy Branch' for other reasons and had to switch to a more professional and meaningful  source label.  Not perfect (but at least it says international) but at least it's better than 'dummy branch' (and its doesn't show the source as BKK Bank), provided the source label stays in use.

good news, fingers crossed they are trying to help their customers ?

[mogandave]

So it’s settled?

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

[JoeW]

You can request your bank in your home country to transfer 65,000 THB to your account in Thailand (they will figure out the exchange rate and transfer the appropriate amount of currency of your home country.) At least that's what a few German friends have been doing for the past years.

[SooKee]

2 minutes ago, zoza said:

good news, fingers crossed they are trying to help their customers ?

Yeah, at a guess I'd say they've had complaints from traders or others receiving funds where it comes into Thailand and goes via another Thai bank before reaching them with the use of 'Dummy Branch' (the kind of thing that flashes the 'Fraud' alarm), or maybe an audit from Revenue or BOT etc.  I'd doubt it was over satisfying TI arrangements but you never know.

[SooKee]

4 minutes ago, JoeW said:

You can request your bank in your home country to transfer 65,000 THB to your account in Thailand (they will figure out the exchange rate and transfer the appropriate amount of currency of your home country.) At least that's what a few German friends have been doing for the past years.

Problem is that is almost always the least cost effective and most expensive way of doing it, at the very least you want the currency converted in Thailand, not by a bank in another country.

Edited January 5, 2019 by SooKee

[david555]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

You mean other than having the same name on both accounts?

And on condition you are able and allowed by your bank to transfer out of Thailand , as this only for work permit holders , or if you repatriate money from example condo sale with having F.E.T form,  from bringing in that condo money.... not so simple as saying it 

Unless bypasses like western union or similar ones for high fees ...

[mfd101]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

And with currency fluctuations a daily occurrence it is going to be very difficult to have the exact income every month

Nowhere does anything say you have to bring in the EXACT 65K each month. You can bring in any figure over that.

 

So unless your 'home' currency is fluctuating wildly, bringing in, say, 70K each month should be just fine. If your 'home' currency does drop like a brick, then you will have to bring in more of it each month till it recovers ...

[david555]

5 minutes ago, JoeW said:

You can request your bank in your home country to transfer 65,000 THB to your account in Thailand (they will figure out the exchange rate and transfer the appropriate amount of currency of your home country.) At least that's what a few German friends have been doing for the past years.

can be done but then you got the worst baht exchange rate if SENDING BAHT   in stead of sending euros or dollars

[moe666]

7 minutes ago, JoeW said:

You can request your bank in your home country to transfer 65,000 THB to your account in Thailand (they will figure out the exchange rate and transfer the appropriate amount of currency of your home country.) At least that's what a few German friends have been doing for the past years.

Do not let your bank in your home country do the exchange rate because you will get a lower rate than if you say transfer US dollars and let your Thai Bank do the conversion, they will use the TT rate which is higher.

[jackdd]

7 minutes ago, david555 said:

And on condition you are able and allowed by your bank to transfer out of Thailand , as this only for work permit holders , or if you repatriate money from example condo sale with having F.E.T form,  from bringing in that condo money.... not so simple as saying it 

Unless bypasses like western union or similar ones for high fees ...

Read a few more posts, this was explained before, it's as simple as that, look at for example https://www.dee.money/ probably also cheaper than a bank transfer

[ally3220]

8 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Well, if the scenario that unfolds required 12x65k transfers from outside Thailand into a Thai account, your extension based on income, just maybe got rejected! 

I have written to TransferWise to ask this question. My transfers to Krungsri are not identified as international.

[ParadiseLost]

29 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

his can be in the form of tax statements based on employment here in thailand OR in transfers to a thai bank account from overseas for 12 months before you apply for your extension

So if I don't leave the country for a year, and transfer the funds every month they will accept I am employed?

 

Somehow I doubt this.

 

Edit: Perhaps they don't care if you are employed or not - so long as you have the funds.

 

One could then work illegally without ever needing to justify the income, just transfer money back and forwards every month...

Edited January 5, 2019 by ParadiseLost

[david555]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Read a few more posts, this was explained before, it's as simple as that, look at for example https://www.dee.money/ probably also cheaper than a bank transfer

cheaper ...yes for such sums , but example TransferWise the breaking point comparing my Europe  banks was around 7000euros then they became more expensive , also I can not use them as no reason for transfer can be given, and ALL my transfers big or small are send as "for buying condo in Thailand " even when never yet done , this just to have a escape way to repatriate later if needed ...

I use the 800k method , so not relevant for me , but transferring out from Thai bank is problematic hence those exceptions , strange enough anybody is free to take cash out by airplane up to 15000 usd. value in any currency (before 20 000 usd value …)

[ParadiseLost]

5 minutes ago, david555 said:

transferring out from Thai bank is problematic

Have you experienced problems? I have transferred money to Australia on occasion and never had an issue. Most at once was 14k AUD.

[Rawairat]

Very inflexible, I now do quarterly at $40x4=160 in yearly transfer costs, 12 transfers will cost 12x40=480!!

Have to stick to the K800 tied up for 3 months earning 0.9%

[Pib]

59 minutes ago, SooKee said:

 

On a personal basis I've been doing the monthly transfers since I got here so it's no big deal for me personally, conscious it's the the best solution for may others but it is an alternative to the 800K deposit only route which they could have opted for.  The only fly in the ointment for me will be proving the source of income is from outside Thailand given the TW business model IF that ends up being a TI stipulation.  If the Kasikorn audit trail (either by statement and / or credit advice) won't stand up then it's either open an account at BKK Bank (that'll be a fun trawl around branches given how difficult it is now without a work permit) or try to find another cost effective means of sending over the monthly sums, including more trials with HSBC, that will show as an international tx.  

 

And although Transferwise transfers to a person Bangkok Bank account reflect with a FTT (Foreign Telegraphic Transfer) on the passbook and on ibanking with a description of International Transfer that's only because Transferwise apparently has an account with Bangkok Bank and Transferwise simply does an internal Bankgok Bank transfer for the final leg of the trip.  I have done 5 Transferwise transfers to my Bangkok Bank accounts and all 5 ended up with FTT/International Transfer coding.

 

But I bet if one day Transferwise stopped using it's Bankgok Bank to accomplish the final leg of the transfer and used another Thai bank the transfer would probably appear as just a domestic transfer....no FTT code or International Transfer description on a person's Bangkok Bank account.    I have done 1 transfer to my Krungsri account and it did "not" show up with any international transfer coding....just showed up any typical local domestic transfer.  And that was because the final leg of the transfer came from a Transferwise account at Thai Military Bank (TMB).

 

I know from my own Transferwise transfer experience and reading Transferwise related posts that Transferwise has accounts at at "least" 3 Thai banks with Bangkok Bank, TMB being 2 of the 3...and I can't remember the third now.  Transferwise may have more than 3..   But if one day Transferwise decides to not use (either permanently or periodically) Bangkok Bank to accomplish the final leg of the transfer to my Bangkok Bank account then I bet it will then reflect as a everyday domestic transfer....no international transfer coding on the passbook/ibanking statement.

 

So, "if", repeat if TI requires a person's passbook/statement to reflect an international transfer either via coding/description--and they will not accept any other documentation--then a person has a problem if their transfer method does not create international transfer coding/description like how Transferwise transfers to "some" Thai banks does create international coding; it just looks like any ol' domestic transfer.   Each Thai bank uses different coding/description for international transfers but it's still identified as an international transfer which I'm sure TI would have a cheat sheet/cross-reference for each bank to use when reviewing a person's passbook/statement.

 

Yes, Transferwise gives a PDF receipt but that is "not" Thai bank documentation which complies with TI's "probable" KISS approach which may only accept Thai bank docs (passbook/statements).  Don't start throwing a bunch of foreign docs, like Transferwise receipts, in front of the immigration officer because he/she may only want to see Thai bank docs.  

 

We'll just have to wait and see the exact wording of the police order and actual implementation works out.  And I'm sure we'll read TV posts showing "varied" implementation across the various immigration offices. Preaching to the choir I know. 

 

But for me, I've used the Bt800K in a Thai bank approach for numerous years for my annual retirement extension of stay renewals and do not deal with the monthly transfer approach...current method or revised future method.   Only my first and/or second year in Thailand did I use the embassy letter approach but got tired of the $50 embassy fee and trek to the embassy....plus I got more comfortable with having Bt800 in a Thai bank for use a immediate emergency money and retirement extension purposes. 

 

I know many people can easily manage Bt800K/Bt400K (and yes many can't) in a Thai bank but are simply don't want to have that much money in a Thai bank for one reason or many.  Everyone will have different reasons....that's fine....that's OK.  But maybe the possible problems/headaches/fees created by a monthly international transfer will be just enough added justification to go the Bt800K/Bt400K in a Thai bank method.  

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Pib

[fvw53]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Why did you only mention the 65k baht for a retirement extension. It will be the same for the 40k baht needed for an extension based upon marriage,

Nothing new in your post from what the US embassy has been told and that the police order will be issued this month.

A monthly transfer is costly in bank fees...until now I transfered money every 3 months to reduce the bank fees 

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, kannot said:

IS  Thai  Thai  Elite 20 year visa  now  looking a  better long  term  prospect?

When your average life expectancy is less than ten years, no.

[Lovethailandelite]

12 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

So if I don't leave the country for a year, and transfer the funds every month they will accept I am employed?

 

Somehow I doubt this.

 

Edit: Perhaps they don't care if you are employed or not - so long as you have the funds.

 

One could then work illegally without ever needing to justify the income, just transfer money back and forwards every month...

You sound confused?
Income Tax statements can be used by people that are 'working in Thailand' and you are paying tax in 'Thailand'.
If your NOT paying tax and working in Thailand, then you will need to transfer the funds, EVERY MONTH for 12 months before your extension from a foreign bank account to a Thai bank account 

[TPI]

20 hours ago, Spidey said:

I still wonder how you prove that the 65k baht is from your home country. Foreign transfers aren't always clear in some bank books.

I don't think it matters where the money comes from just so long as it appears in your account!

[KhunSugar]

After reading many reactions, I have to conclude that we are eagerly looking for a back gate solution. Just the monthly equivalent of 65,000 baht transfer will be too hard apparently.