TransferWise Considered Fraudulent By My US Bank

[lopburi3]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Next day, nothing in my bank account. Day after, still nothing. Day 3, there it was so I went to log in only to find my account "deactivated" by TW.  No notification or explanation.

As a guess would say that 3 day delay was likely at your bank and why your account was closed (no timely response from you).  Some banks are very slow in listing account activity online.

 

Note the missing page is marked business and borderless account so (if true) that might also have something to do with it as believe most of us have just set up normal accounts.

 

Can not really remember (old age) but believe it was easy and fast setup and nothing asked for 1,000 usd test - sent copy of passport and full amounts authorized within short time.  From others report the bank info is to a banking site and not held by Transferwise and is secure so do not believe you need to worry about that.  But understand your frustration.  When things go wrong, everything goes wrong.

[Pib]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Oh - and attempt to lodge a complaint with TW got this

https://transferwise.com/questions/help/article/2235393/legal/customer-complaints-procedure

This link works.

https://transferwise.com/help/article/2969094/security/customer-complaints-procedure

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

As a guess would say that 3 day delay was likely at your bank and why your account was closed (no timely response from you).  Some banks are very slow in listing account activity online.

 

Note the missing page is marked business and borderless account so (if true) that might also have something to do with it as believe most of us have just set up normal accounts.

 

Can not really remember (old age) but believe it was easy and fast setup and nothing asked for 1,000 usd test - sent copy of passport and full amounts authorized within short time.  From others report the bank info is to a banking site and not held by Transferwise and is secure so do not believe you need to worry about that.  But understand your frustration.  When things go wrong, everything goes wrong.

I have never known my bank to be slow.

 

And even if there was a delay in my response, why would they deactivate the entire account? Surely that would just rule out one payment method?

 

 

[lopburi3]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I have never known my bank to be slow.

 

And even if there was a delay in my response, why would they deactivate the entire account? Surely that would just rule out one payment method?

 

 

Only guessing - but that combined with trying to transfer more than authorized on first attempt combined with outages may have set off alarm bells.  Know you have patience (7 days is a long time) but they may not.

[Sheryl]

Finally got an email from them. A form response stating they had decided to keep my account closed and would not tell me why.

 

"We’ve decided to keep your account closed. Unfortunately, we can’t tell you the specific reason why — it’s because of how we’re regulated. But we can choose to close an account if we think:

It’s a duplicate of another (you can only have one TransferWise account, unless we agree otherwise).
It’s connected with activity that may be illegal.
Its security has been compromised."

 

It is definitely not a duplicate account, there is no reason I can think of for them to suspect illegal activity, and if the account were somehow compromised I would certainly want to know how/ why.

 

This was clearly a boilerplate response, though,  as it also referred to having "refunded the money you sent us" whereas I had not yet sent them any money. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

38 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It certainly was for me.

 

They have a list of banks but mine was not among them so I had to check "other" and that is when I was asked for the bank details etc. I don't know what I would have had to supply if mine had been one of the banks listed. But I can't imagine they wouldn't need the bank account number, how else can they identify your account? The same bank could have 2 account holders of the same name. Surely they can't pull money from your account without your having at least once, initially, given them the account number?!

Sheryl,

    I know you probably don't care now, but if your bank had been one of the banks that allows you to log onto from within the TW interface, you would have "not" manually entered the account number to pull the funds from.   Since my US bank is one that does interface with TW I've done this quite a few times already...I don't have to use the trial deposits method.

 

     When you get to the point of funding the transfer a popup window within the TW interface would appear....this is where you logon your bank account.  It's pretty similar to logging onto your PayPal account through the Ebay interface when paying for an item bought.   The API used by TW to logon/interface with certain banks is provided by Plaid a major fintech company supporting many banks around the world.   If your can logon your bank account thru TW then your bank is one of many using the Plaid system for various types of transactions. 

 

   Anyway, once you enter your bank's logon credentials you will "not" see what you are use to when directly logging onto your bank's ibanking.  You basically just see the account(s) names listed like Checking and/or Savings (or more if you have more account with your bank) and I think amount in each account....you then click a radio button as to which account to use...and then it begins validating you have enough money in the selected account to fund the transfer (probably checks some other things also), and within a few seconds it's done, you get a positive response you are good to go....money on the way......then you are automatically logged off back into the TW interface only.   None of your bank logon credentials are saved by TW when using this method.  

 

   This info is really for other US folks thinking about using TW.  Your funding US bank may or may not be able to interface directly using the Plaid API and TW may not offer this option....if your bank can, then what I described above happens.  Otherwise a person must use the traditional trial deposit setup method which takes X-days to setup.

 

    Sucks what happens....could happen to any of us....and surely will to some of us at some point.  Even though TW has already replied to you if you haven't used their appeal process yet, I would....you have nothing to lose.   

   

      I have an appeals related story....not with TW but with Google...you know the almighty Google in the Sky system.   A few months ago Google suspended by Google Voice account out of the blue....maybe because I tried calling one number (a US govt number) many times over several days in trying to reach a human versus just getting their voice recording.  Maybe the Google computers though I was some robot during mass/junk calls.  Anyway, I submitted an appeal saying I can't see anything I could have possibly done wrong except maybe calling  one US govt number "a lot" over a week's time frame (I gave them the number, agency/office name, and reason for calling many times in trying to get a human on the line).  Later that day I got a response from Google that I had "not" violated any Google Voice policies, I was no longer suspended, and my GV number would operational again soon.  But it was not operational again even after a few days.....so, I resubmitted the appeal to include a copy of their previous response saying I didn't do anything wrong, and once again got an answer about a half day later saying I hadn't done anything wrong, I was no longer suspended, and my GV number would be operational soon---but this time my GV was immediately reactivated....it been working fine since.

 

Pib

 

 

[Sheryl]

Thanks Pib.

 

yes, I have submitted a complaint for what it is worth which is probably not much.

[davhend25]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Thanks Pib.

 

yes, I have submitted a complaint for what it is worth which is probably not much.

Sorry to hear of your troubles with this, Sheryl. I'm sure there will be many more posts similar to yours in the coming months. 

[pontious]

6 minutes ago, davhend25 said:

Sorry to hear of your troubles with this, Sheryl. I'm sure there will be many more posts similar to yours in the coming months. 

I don't see why - many people use TW and have no problem at all. Hope you get it sorted out Sheryl.

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, davhend25 said:

Sorry to hear of your troubles with this, Sheryl. I'm sure there will be many more posts similar to yours in the coming months. 

Thanks. The only bright side is that I no longer consider the SWIFT transfer process of my US bank to be at all cumbersome. I used to,  because it doesn't go right through, there has to be an exchange of emails asking verifying questions first and with a 12 hour time difference that can extend the process to 2 days or so.

 

No longer - it now feels like a dream come true, an absolute breeze, compared to what went through in my vain attempts to use TW!

 

I should maybe add that I am a US citizen and was trying to transfer USD 15K from a US bank to Thailand (initially 30k but that never went through the payment stage when I saw ACH was not an option for it).  Possibly the nationality (US does put extra reporting requirements on Financial Institutions) and/or the amount was a factor.

 

Anyhow - I am not favorably impressed, to put it mildly., The "we have decided to deactivate your account and refuse to say why, it might be that we (inexplicably) suspect you of something illegal or it might be that your account  was compromised" hardly eased my mind any....

 

I'm sticking to the tried and true methods from here onwards.

 

 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, pontious said:

I don't see why - many people use TW and have no problem at all. Hope you get it sorted out Sheryl.

And at least a fair number of people do have problems, some of them worse than mine (i.e. accounts deactivated after money paid to them and so left in limbo trying to get it refunded), .  Check out the some of the  reviews here  https://www.consumeraffairs.com/finance/transferwise.html#review=4691689

 

(Consumer Afairs is a very reputable site in the USfor product and services reviews )

 

Apparently the deactivating accounts without warning or explanation is fairly common with them, and they even do it when the money has already been sent to them.

 

Those of you who have been using them for a while will probably be fine, at least if you do not substantially increase the amount you send or change banks. From what I read most of the problems and the unexplained deactivations occur with  first time clients.

 

But anyone thinking of using them for the first time, be forewarned ti may not be smooth sailing.

[sumrit]

13 hours ago, Sheryl said:

It certainly was for me.

 

They have a list of banks but mine was not among them so I had to check "other" and that is when I was asked for the bank details etc. I don't know what I would have had to supply if mine had been one of the banks listed. But I can't imagine they wouldn't need the bank account number, how else can they identify your account? The same bank could have 2 account holders of the same name. Surely they can't pull money from your account without your having at keast once, initially, given them the account number?!

From reading the various posts on TV about problems you have transferring money to Thailand you obviously have a much more complicated banking system in the US than we do in the UK. I, my UK friends and many others from the UK have been using TW for some time now without any problems. 

 

When I want to make a transfer I Start the process on the TW app. When I get to the point of sending money to them I have a choice of using a debit card, credit card or bank transfer. I personally prefer not to leave my card details anywhere unnecessarily so I go to my bank app and do a simple direct transfer to TW (their details are stored on the app). Then I go back to TW to confirm the transfer and receive a confirmation email within minutes saying the transfer has started. Less than two minutes from start to finish. I then get a second email when the money has arrived at my Thai bank, along with an information receipt.

I assume it's of the time difference because, if I complete the transfer before 8:00am Thailand time the money is usually in my Bangkok Bank by 2:00pm the same day. If it's completed after 8:00am it will arrive the next day, excluding weekends of course.

[luckyluke]

^

Same Same here, use them monthly since August 2018.

 

I instruct Transferwise before noon,  the funds are on my account the day after around 2 p.m..

 

I am Belgian and I transfer from my Belgian bank account to my Thai bank account.

[Sheryl]

The online complaints do seem to be disproportionately from Americans. May be an issue with rhe TW US bank and may also be recent or have worsened in recent years.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[lopburi3]

Suspect it may have more to do with this.

[racyrick]

42 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The online complaints do seem to be disproportionately from Americans. May be an issue with rhe TW US bank and may also be recent or have worsened in recent years.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I read the complaints and I must say I am very scared now.

I know there was another thread a few weeks ago that told of people having problems with payments to their account here in Thailand, but nobody's account was closed and everyone got their money,

As for me, I made another transfer this month and money did not come the next day as normal. Their was an extra 2 day delay, but they did show that when I made the transfer. They gave no reason as to why it was taking longer to transfer here.

Needless to say, this makes me very uneasy to use them. They may have some serious issues going on now behind the scenes.

[owl sees all]

I've been with TW from the very start. There were problems with their Thai partner some years ago, and it resulted in TW stopping the service (UK to Thailand) for a couple of months. They picked up new Thai partners and it's been fine since.

 

Last transfer took just 4 hours 45 minutes from my UK bank to my Thai bank.

[sumrit]

48 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Suspect it may have more to do with this.

So is it as difficult to do domestic transfers in the US?.......because my transfer to TW in the UK is a simple straight forward domestic transfer, they have a UK bank account I transfer to.

[lopburi3]

29 minutes ago, racyrick said:

As for me, I made another transfer this month and money did not come the next day as normal.

That can happen if holidays/weekend involved.

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, sumrit said:

So is it as difficult to do domestic transfers in the US?.......because my transfer to TW in the UK is a simple straight forward domestic transfer, they have a UK bank account I transfer to.

Domestic transfers in USA can be subject to checks - normally believe it is keyed at 10K but when I lived in Florida it was much less for anything in that region due to drug money,  But suspect Transferwise is subject to special provisions to allow foreign account payouts of deposited money and likely are very anxious to avoid any potential money laundering issues.

[delgarcon]

I've been using Transferwise for sometime now without a hitch. There are several ways one can transfer funds to them, one being by using a credit card, which costs a little more in charges but which is more secure. Personally I always go the cheaper route by transferring funds from my UK account.

[sumrit]

12 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Domestic transfers in USA can be subject to checks - normally believe it is keyed at 10K but when I lived in Florida it was much less for anything in that region due to drug money,  But suspect Transferwise is subject to special provisions to allow foreign account payouts of deposited money and likely are very anxious to avoid any potential money laundering issues.

So is there a level above/below where checks are/aren't normally made?

 

People don't seem to have a problem transferring from the UK. But it appears there is a problem for Americans because of their banking/tax system

Edited February 16, 2019 by sumrit

[sfokevin]

17 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I have never known my bank to be slow.

 

And even if there was a delay in my response, why would they deactivate the entire account? Surely that would just rule out one payment method?

 

 

Sheryl,

I would make another signup attempt using a debit/visa card as your first source of funds (you do not need bank ACH) say for $100 then if this works you know your general account is set up then add a bank ACH... Thst is how I set mine up...

 

Also I would suggest OFX.com as an alternate... I have just set my account up and thru the ACH adding process a real person at their customer service emails me to confirm things!... great customer service... 

Edited February 16, 2019 by sfokevin

[Sheryl]

I did not try to do a domestic transfer, I tried to have TW "pull" the funds via ACH. They did not have my bank listed which made that more complex but while that created delays I am not sure that has anything at all to do with their deactivating my account. If anything the delay worked in my favor because it meant the account deactivation happened before they had gotten my money.

 

What I suspect is going on is that TW in the US is using some sort of algorithm to flag "suspicious" transactions. And then immediately deactivating accounts that are flagged without any human investigation first. This is a pretty common (and infuriating) practice among financial institutiond in the US. For years I had headaches with my credit card companies because of this and the transactions they flagged (and blocked) were ludicrous. One of them had transactions in certain countries including Thailand on the "flag" list, without regard for if the cardholder lived in Thailand. Another one apparently looked for sudden changes in amounts and flagged and blocked any payment larger in amount than prior months -- even if a similiar payment, to the same place, at about the same time, had been made periodically over the years. My favorite was when they flagged and blocked my tax payment to the IRS.....I am reasonably sure credit card thieves do not go paying people's taxes for them! Point being everything they blocked, had any human with half a brain looked at it together with my past payment history and address, would have been seen to be non-suspicious. But nobody does that, it is all by (often badly designed) algorithm

 

 

If I had wire transferred the money to TW that would have gone right to them but I suspect they would still have deactivated the account only now they'd have my money and I'd be struggling to get it back...as has happened to many customers, most of them in US.

 

What it was that tripped the algorithm, who kmows. Could have been the amount, the Thai destination, maybe both and also combined with being a new user.

 

You can be assurred I will definitely mot waste my time trying to start a new account. Which is probably not allowed anyhow.

 

They may use algorithms in the UK too but perhaps they are better crafted or used only as a flag with actual human investigation before action is taken....as it should be.

 

If they are using algorithms that would explain the refusal to give a reason when they deactivate an account, they would not want the algorithm to be known.

 

Those if you who have been using TW for some time without problem will probably be OK unless you make a transfer that is for a much larger sum than in the past. People wanting to do this for the first time -- especially if American and especially if transferring in to meet the 400/800k retirement requirement - be forewarned and definitely do not do this if time is of the essence. I was doing this for an 800k extension but luckily was starting far in advance so the loss of time didn't affect things via extension wise.

 

Just thoroughly p***ed me off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sumrit]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

If I had wire transferred the money to TW that would have gone right to them but I suspect they would still have deactivated the account only now they'd have my money and I'd be struggling to get it back...as has happened to many customers, most of them in US.

I don't think you would have had any trouble getting your money back.

 

A mate of mine from the UK thought he could load his TW account ready for a transfer later that day and transferred some money to TW from his bank account before he had actually set up the transfer in the normal way. (yes, I know you can do this on their One card now but before they were available you had to set up the transfer first before sending the the money) Because, when they received the money in their account, there was no live pending transfer to match the money to they returned it to his bank account immediately then emailed him to confirm what they'd done.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, sumrit said:

So is there a level above/below where checks are/aren't normally made?

 

People don't seem to have a problem transferring from the UK. But it appears there is a problem for Americans because of their banking/tax system

 

Plenty of complaints from UK folks and other nationalities but a person needs to go to website that reflects country-specific and/or worldwide feedback.   The usconsumersaffairs website is basically focused towards people living in the US and US folks will go complaint there in many cases.

 

Now go to a website that compares different money transfer services and collects feedback on a worldwide basis like below website.  Be sure to click Review More Reviews at the bottom of each page to pull more review.   Many, many stories like Sheryl's where Transferwise just abruptly deactivated accounts.  And sometimes people with Borderless Accounts (which Sheryl didn't have) apparently get deactivated because of the "people who sent payments" into the borderless account.  Sometimes Transferwise feedback provides specifics inferring why the account was deactivated but usually it just a canned response not saying why.   Then we have the situation of Transferwise trying to comply with different "know your customer" rules in different countries....some countries are stricter than others.

 

https://www.compareremit.com/money-transfer-companies/transferwise-reviews/

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

What I suspect is going on is that TW in the US is using some sort of algorithm to flag "suspicious" transactions. And then immediately deactivating accounts that are flagged without any human investigation first. This is a pretty common (and infuriating) practice among financial institutions in the US....

 

....What it was that tripped the algorithm, who knows. Could have been the amount, the Thai destination, maybe both and also combined with being a new user.

Totally agree.  And I expect your Thailand address combined in trying to transfer the maximum ACH $15,000 limit on your first transfer caused an algorithm to trip and deactivate your account.   Nothing wrong in having a Thailand address but combined with going for the max on the first transfer that may have been the problem.  But who really knows...Transferwise is not going to say even if they approve your appeal and reactivate your account. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Pib

[Pib]

Another good place for US folks to review complaints against a company registered in the US is the Better Business Bureau website.  You can select by state, by company, etc.   Below is set for New York complaints against Transferwise.  But always keep in mind the US is a large country....around 330 million people....you can file numerous complaints (valid and invalid) on most any product/service/company.  But those complaints may be a small percentage of a product/service/company customer base. 

 

But I do think when Transferwise decides you have violated some rule, they immediately deactivate your account, throw you under the bus, and become extremely hard to communicate with (i.e., hard to get someone to answer the Transferwise doorbell).  

 

https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/money-orders/transferwise-inc-0121-166054/complaints

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Totally agree.  And I expect your Thailand address combined in trying to transfer the maximum ACH $15,000 limit on your first transfer caused an algorithm to trip and deactivate your account.   Nothing wrong in having a Thailand address but combined with going for the max on the first transfer that may have been the problem.  But who really knows...Transferwise is not going to say even if they approve your appeal and reactivate your account. 

They refused the appeal. And yes, no reason given. Nor wan any information about me or the transaction solicited so I doubt there was really any sort of deliberation or review process.  Had there been, surely they would have asked for some additional information of some kind.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

 

But I do think when Transferwise decides you have violated some rule, they immediately deactivate your account, throw you under the bus, and become extremely hard to communicate with (i.e., hard to get someone to answer the Transferwise doorbell).  

 

https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/money-orders/transferwise-inc-0121-166054/complaints

Exactly. And not just when they think you have violated some rule. When you have violated nothing but their algorithm for some reason flags you or your transaction as suspicious.as suspicious.