Russia suspends nuclear arms treaty after U.S. says to pull out

[rooster59]

Russia suspends nuclear arms treaty after U.S. says to pull out

By Vladimir Soldatkin

 

FILE PHOTO: Russian servicemen equip an Iskander tactical missile system at the Army-2015 international military-technical forum in Kubinka, outside Moscow, Russia, June 17, 2015. REUTERS/Sergei Karpukhin/File Photo

 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia has suspended the Cold War-era Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty, President Vladimir Putin said on Saturday, after the United States announced it would withdraw from the arms control pact, accusing Moscow of violations.

 

Moscow's relations with the West are strained over issues including Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine, allegations of meddling in the U.S. presidential election and being behind a nerve agent attack in Britain.

 

The United States announced on Friday it will withdraw from the INF treaty in six months unless Moscow ends what it says are violations of the 1987 pact.

 

It would reconsider its withdrawal if Russia came into compliance with the agreement, which bans both nations from stationing short- and intermediate-range land-based missiles in Europe. Russia denies violating the treaty.

 

On Saturday, Washington said it had formally notified Russia and other treaty parties of the United States' intent and suspended its obligations under the INF.

 

"The American partners have declared that they suspend their participation in the deal, we suspend it as well," Putin said during a televised meeting with foreign and defence ministers.

 

Putin said Russia will start work on creating new missiles, including hypersonic ones, and told ministers not to initiate disarmament talks with Washington, accusing the United States of being slow to respond to such moves.

 

"We have repeatedly, during a number of years, and constantly raised a question about substantiative talks on the disarmament issue," Putin said. "We see that in the past few years the partners have not supported our initiatives."

The row over the treaty has drawn a strong reaction from Europe and China.

 

European nations fear the treaty's collapse could lead to a new arms race with possibly a new generation of U.S. nuclear missiles stationed on the continent.

 

China urged the United States on Saturday to resolve its differences with Russia through dialogue.

 

During the meeting with Putin, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused the United States of violating the INF and other arms deals, including the non-proliferation treaty.

 

Putin said Russia would not deploy its weapons in Europe and other regions unless the United States did so.

 

The U.S. State Department said in a statement on Saturday that the United States could not be restricted by the treaty while Russia violated it.

 

"The United States has concluded that extraordinary events related to the subject matter of the Treaty arising from Russia's continued noncompliance have jeopardized the United States' supreme interests," the statement said.

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-02-03

 

[chainarong]

President Nixon claimed that any agreement with Russia should be on a toilet roll , the only good thing about it was you could wipe your backside with it.

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, chainarong said:

President Nixon claimed that any agreement with Russia should be on a toilet roll , the only good thing about it was you could wipe your backside with it.

It was Trump that trashed the agreement 

[Skallywag]

100 nuclear weapons would devistate climate worldwide.  Humans cannot survive radiation exposure.

Russia and USA have around 4000 nuclear weapons each.  

USA spends $40 billion every year to maintain the arsenal and delivery systems. 

Not sure how disarmament works, but the treaty doesnt seem to be worth the paper it was written on.  

 

[attrayant]

Let me get this straight - Russia allegedly violates the terms of the treaty, so we cancel it thereby letting them totally off the hook?  Why not keep it in force and use it to justify measures against Russia to bring them back into compliance?

 

People don't follow the speed limit laws, therefore we should repeal all speed limit laws!

 

When Reagan became president, he accused the USSR of violating the ABM treaty.  It took six years but this eventually lead to them pulling down the offending radar installations and then to this IMF treaty.

[Emdog]

Obama tried to negotiate with the Russians to stop their weapons program. Negotiating didn't work., Russians kept at it.

Saw BBC clip with sec general of NATO, I think Norwegian, simply stating that Russia has been violating the treaty for many years.

Russia withdrew long ago, just not formally (Why should they? Just violate and then blame NATO when they withdraw).

Russia stole Crimea and invaded Ukraine in spite of signing treaty saying would respect Ukrainian borders when Ukraine unilaterally rid self of nukes (mistake IMO). Russia also invaded Georgia and Moldavia.

Russias neighbors have good reason to mistrust Russia. To try to pin this on US is a bit naive and ignores history.

This is first time I can recall I have agreed with Trump's actions. Guess even a blind squirrel finds a few nuts.

 

[Srikcir]

7 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The U.S. State Department said in a statement on Saturday that the United States could not be restricted by the treaty while Russia violated it.

The US State Department led by Pompeo pursues a political agenda designed to promote Trump's success as POTUS. To that degree we have seen manipulation and deception of factual unbiased analysis by the Trump administration such as criticisms brought by Trump recently with his intelligence agency heads in their annual Risk Assessment Report that Trump has characterized as naive and fake news.

The question should be asked,

Is Russia Actually Violating the INF Treaty?

While there may be a serious compliance issue regarding the INF Treaty, the sides appear to be smoothly implementing New START. The Russians already meet two of the treaty’s three limits on strategic forces — even though those limits do not kick in until February 2018.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-moscow-missile-mystery-is-russia-actually-violating-the-inf-treaty/

By Trump abandoning the treaty first (assuming he can legally do so without Congressional approval), he gives Russia an excuse of self-preservation to abandon it as well. The US then assumes responsibility potentially for causing greater global insecurity and arm's race. That works for Putin who -for example- can present himself as Russia's protector against US nuclear arms buildup (good for internal Russian politics) and as a world leader against US nuclear imperialism (good for international Russian politics).

[BestB]

9 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Potential enemies. Sure thing. How many of them are an actual threat to Russia, and how many feel threatened by Russia?

How many bases does Russia have outside Russia?

 

So if someone feels threatened because someone else told them to fear then its justified fear?

 

How many of them are a threat to Russia? well considering pressure from US on all EU countries and all the US basis around Russia, i would say quite a few, not to mention US military dressed as NATO on all Russian borders.

[Dumbastheycome]

12 hours ago, attrayant said:

Let me get this straight - Russia allegedly violates the terms of the treaty, so we cancel it thereby letting them totally off the hook?  Why not keep it in force and use it to justify measures against Russia to bring them back into compliance?

 

People don't follow the speed limit laws, therefore we should repeal all speed limit laws!

 

When Reagan became president, he accused the USSR of violating the ABM treaty.  It took six years but this eventually lead to them pulling down the offending radar installations and then to this IMF treaty.

All sides have  cheated the rules of the agreement. All that  counts at any one time is  who  can point the finger with  greater authority while  keeping  fingers crossed on the hidden hand!

[BestB]

8 hours ago, Emdog said:

Obama tried to negotiate with the Russians to stop their weapons program. Negotiating didn't work., Russians kept at it.

Saw BBC clip with sec general of NATO, I think Norwegian, simply stating that Russia has been violating the treaty for many years.

Russia withdrew long ago, just not formally (Why should they? Just violate and then blame NATO when they withdraw).

Russia stole Crimea and invaded Ukraine in spite of signing treaty saying would respect Ukrainian borders when Ukraine unilaterally rid self of nukes (mistake IMO). Russia also invaded Georgia and Moldavia.

Russias neighbors have good reason to mistrust Russia. To try to pin this on US is a bit naive and ignores history.

This is first time I can recall I have agreed with Trump's actions. Guess even a blind squirrel finds a few nuts.

 

How do you steal something that belong to you to start with?

 

Russian neighbors had no problem with Russia and were doing multi billion dollar deals until Obama and Co decided to support a coup in Ukraine to overthrow democratically elected president to replace him with its own puppet and try to cut Russia off from the black sea.

 

That plan failed miserably and all of EU is paying for it.

[Prissana Pescud]

Does anyone want to post if either Russia or US violated the treaty.

Seems to me that both countries want to quit the treaty because China is not signatory.

China is not constrained by the US/Russia treaty.

 It is a silly treaty if a third party does not acknowledge the treaty or the goodwill that went into the original treaty.

Who knew that Russia and US would decline as China rose.

[Whip]

The older I get, the more I am convinced that the human race is insane

[BestB]

19 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Does anyone want to post if either Russia or US violated the treaty.

Seems to me that both countries want to quit the treaty because China is not signatory.

China is not constrained by the US/Russia treaty.

 It is a silly treaty if a third party does not acknowledge the treaty or the goodwill that went into the original treaty.

Who knew that Russia and US would decline as China rose.

It was US who initiated the whole saga for precisely that reason to counter China. But as always picture is painted as such to make initiating side look good. 

 

Russia is not weaker , if anything much much stronger in all aspects. China is no threat to Russia

[unblocktheplanet]

Seems liked the US pulled out first! Dangerous game they're BOTH playing with our lives!

[Prissana Pescud]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

It was US who initiated the whole saga for precisely that reason to counter China. But as always picture is painted as such to make initiating side look good. 

 

Russia is not weaker , if anything much much stronger in all aspects. China is no threat to Russia

I go back to my post. China was never in the scene when US and Russia signed a treaty to prohibit nuclear weapons.

China is not a part of the treaty.

No one thought that China would want to engage in a death sentence to all humanity if nuclear war was ever engaged.

As for Russia being a loser/ Yes you are correct. And China is not your friend. The only friend that China has is China.

And the only way to ever be friends with anybody is by the use of intelligence.

Something that you do not want to engage in. Maybe

[Scott]

Baiting, off-topic post removed.  

 

[Morch]

On 2/3/2019 at 9:25 PM, BestB said:

How many bases does Russia have outside Russia?

 

So if someone feels threatened because someone else told them to fear then its justified fear?

 

How many of them are a threat to Russia? well considering pressure from US on all EU countries and all the US basis around Russia, i would say quite a few, not to mention US military dressed as NATO on all Russian borders.

 

How many countries agreed and invited long term Russian military presence? Not that it's really much to do with the topic.

 

The implied assertion that feeling threatened by Russia is solely a product of "someone" else's propaganda, and nothing whatsoever to do with Russia's attitude and actions - is rather amusing. Them alternative facts at work again.

 

Ah, so NATO forces and such are on Russia's border, but somehow Russia's forces aren't on the EU/NATO/other neighbors borders? Got to love that bit of "logic".

 

 

[Morch]

On 2/4/2019 at 5:56 PM, BestB said:

It was US who initiated the whole saga for precisely that reason to counter China. But as always picture is painted as such to make initiating side look good. 

 

Russia is not weaker , if anything much much stronger in all aspects. China is no threat to Russia

 

China is a threat to Russia. And Russia is in decline, whether you wish to accept it or not.

Your comments manage to skip over the part where Russia did, probably, violate the treaty. I would assume they did this on a whim, then? Nothing to do with their own interests or threat assessments?

[BestB]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

China is a threat to Russia. And Russia is in decline, whether you wish to accept it or not.

Your comments manage to skip over the part where Russia did, probably, violate the treaty. I would assume they did this on a whim, then? Nothing to do with their own interests or threat assessments?

Please provide some evidence besides you said so that China is a threat to Russia or that Russia is in decline ?

 

So according to your self proclaimed expert opinion Russia most likely did violate the agreement and US did not?

[BestB]

27 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How many countries agreed and invited long term Russian military presence? Not that it's really much to do with the topic.

 

The implied assertion that feeling threatened by Russia is solely a product of "someone" else's propaganda, and nothing whatsoever to do with Russia's attitude and actions - is rather amusing. Them alternative facts at work again.

 

Ah, so NATO forces and such are on Russia's border, but somehow Russia's forces aren't on the EU/NATO/other neighbors borders? Got to love that bit of "logic".

 

 

So you implying all the countries with US basis willingly invited US?????????????

 

And just imagine the outrage a country would have its military on its borders yet as it turns out perfectly acceptable to have foreign military at your borders ????

Edited February 6, 2019 by BestB

[mikebike]

The exact treaty being withdrawn from by the USA is for intermediate range land-based nuclear missiles.

 

The USA has limited-to-no need for these as they use sea and air launched intermediate missiles not land based.

 

Russia, on the other hand, has a great need for land-based intermediate missiles. Their geography and much weaker naval and air capabilities make this obvious.

 

I only see benefit for Russia in the USA withdrawing from this treaty. Why not use it as leverage rather than giving the Russians a gift?

Edited February 6, 2019 by mikebike

[metisdead]

A post containing unviable link has been removed as well as the replies:

 

15) Any links posted must lead to the website the link indicates. Links that are misleading or direct to a site different than the one indicated are not allowed.

 

Off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed. 

 

 

Bickering deflection posts have now been removed. 

Edited February 7, 2019 by metisdead