The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[billsmart]

I just returned from doing my 90-Day reporting on Friday, 8 Feb, and was able to get a lot of information on the changes in the rules for qualifying for a Retirement Visa which apply to money and/or income. Here was what I was told:

 

As of 2020…

·         To apply for a NEW Retirement visa, you must either have:

o   A letter from your embassy verifying you receive a pension (not just any income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month. (As of 2020, this will be the ONLY acceptable proof of monthly income.), or…

o   A letter from your bank stating you have had a minimum of ฿800K on deposit for at least three (3) months prior to your application, and...

§  You must keep at least ฿800K in the bank for three (3) months after receiving the visa, and...

§  You bank balance must not drop below ฿400 at any time.

·         To apply for an EXTENSION of a Retirement visa, you must either have:

o   A letter from your embassy verifying you receive a pension (not just any income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month. (As of 2020, this will be the ONLY acceptable proof of monthly income.), or…

o   A letter from your bank stating you have had a minimum of ฿800K on deposit for at least two (2) months prior to your application, and...

§  You must keep at least ฿800K in the bank for three (3) months after receiving the visa, and...

§  You bank balance must not drop below ฿400 at any time.

 

As a special dispensation and to help visa-holders transition to these new rules, for the balance of 2019, you must either have:

·         To apply for a NEW Retirement visa, you must either have:

o   A letter from your embassy verifying you receive a pension (not just any income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month. (As of 2020, this will be the ONLY acceptable proof of monthly income.), or…

o   A letter from your bank stating you have been receiving international transfer deposits (any kind of income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month for the past twelve (12) months, or...

o   A letter from your bank stating you have had a minimum of ฿800K on deposit for at least three (3) months prior to your application, and...

§  You must keep at least ฿800K in the bank for three (3) months after receiving the visa, and...

§  You bank balance must not drop below ฿400 at any time.

·         To apply for an EXTENTION of a Retirement visa, you must either have:

o   A letter from your embassy verifying you receive a pension (not just any income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month. (As of 2020, this will be the ONLY acceptable proof of monthly income.), or…

o   A letter from your bank stating you have been receiving international transfer deposits (any kind of income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month for the past twelve (12) months, or...

o   A letter from your bank stating you have had a minimum of ฿800K on deposit for at least two (2) months prior to your application, and...

§  You must keep at least ฿800K in the bank for three (3) months after receiving the visa, and...

§  You bank balance must not drop below ฿400 at any time.

 

And, one other thing I’ve verified is the online service TRANSFERWISE DOES NOT ACTUALLY DO INTERNATIONAL TRANSFERS.  They do two domestic transfers for your individual transfer, and then settle their accounts up somehow monthly or quarterly. That’s how they can provide you with this service at a lower rate than a regular, individual, international wire transfer.

 

Contact me here by Message at ThaiVisa if you want to discuss further. I can send you copies of what I was given. Most of it is in Thai, but there is an English version of the 2020 rules for Retirement visa translated by Immigrations in English.

 

Bill Smart...

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart
Added some information.

[glegolo]

All these threads....... Plse stop some time....... rather sooner that later.....

We are still waiting for the definetive law and police-order and how you can predict year 2020 is a nice tricky thing I guess..

 

glegolo

[sniggie]

Well, if this is genuine (and, as a player in the market, your company has a vested interest in it being so) then the embassies that have withdrawn the income letters will have to have a serious rethink on how they are screwing over so many of their citizens if there is no other acceptable way of proving income. Their (coordinated?) action last year was on the presumption that the income based extension would continue in some form or other. I hold out little hope, though.   

[ubonjoe]

Not sure where you are getting the year 2020 from. Perhaps when you next application will be due.

The new income rules are already in effect. if you can still get income proof it will be accepted if not then you have to show 65k or 40k (marriage) baht of income going into a Thai bank from abroad. After this year it will have to be 12 months of transfers going into the account.

For the money in the bank for retirement the new rules go into effect on March 1st.

[billsmart]

14 minutes ago, glegolo said:

All these threads....... Plse stop some time....... rather sooner that later.....

We are still waiting for the definetive law and police-order and how you can predict year 2020 is a nice tricky thing I guess..

 

glegolo

glegolo, What I have written above is the official announcement from Immigrations. I've attached a copy of the letter they gave me... 

 

Retirement Visa Rules 2020.pdf

Edited February 10, 2019 by billsmart
Correcting Document

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

We are still waiting for the definetive law and police-order and how you can predict year 2020 is a nice tricky thing I guess..

The police orders have already been issued or did you miss the long topics about them.

[Chodi25]

There are a couple of problems I see with those of us that have used the combo method and this issue of verification of pension from the embassy. As a US citizen the embassy will no longer provide such proof. I understand some other embassies also will not. I have been receiving my government pension here monthly into Bangkok Bank for over 10 years. Those are special accounts in agreement with the US government. In my case I am only short 5k baht per month. I easily have enough in my Thai saving account at SCB to cover the difference (only needs to be about 60k but my balance is much more). If they will no longer accept my bank records as of 2020 then clearly this will no longer work unless the US embassy changes its rules. Not likely. Looks like after 19 years in Thailand I may have to make a change. We shall see.

[billsmart]

Just now, ubonjoe said:

Not sure where you are getting the year 2020 from. Perhaps when you next application will be due.

The new income rules are already in effect. if you can still get income proof it will be accepted if not then you have to show 65k or 40k (marriage) baht of income going into a Thai bank from abroad. After this year it will have to be 12 months of transfers going into the account.

For the money in the bank for retirement the new rules go into effect on March 1st.

ubonjoe, After this year (2019) and starting in 2020, the 65K or 40K a month deposits WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED as proof of income/pension for a Retirement visa. Only a letter from an embassy will be accepted as proof of pension income.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

glegolo, What I have written above is the official announcement from Immigrations. I've attached a copy of the letter they gave me... 

That is just a copy and paste of what was posted on this forum.

Also the name is wrong. A OA visa can only be applied for at a embassy or official consulate.

[Aquaman2016]

As always....
What Immigration office did this come from?
What rank of Immigration Officer did this come from?
What documentary proof is there?


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[dick dasterdly]

6 minutes ago, glegolo said:

All these threads....... Plse stop some time....... rather sooner that later.....

We are still waiting for the definetive law and police-order and how you can predict year 2020 is a nice tricky thing I guess..

 

glegolo

I know what you mean....

 

At the end of the day, nobody knows how the rules will be interpreted by different Immigration offices....

[billsmart]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is just a copy and paste of what was posted on this forum.

Also the name is wrong. A OA visa can only be applied for at a embassy or official consulate.

Oops! You are right, sorry. Here is the document I was given Friday...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020.pdf

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, billsmart said:

ubonjoe, After this year (2019) and starting in 2020, the 65K or 40K a month deposits WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED as proof of income/pension for a Retirement visa. Only a letter from an embassy will be accepted as proof of pension income.

Nonsense

Not sure who gave you that incorrect info. Both are accepted as of now since many people can no longer get income proof from their embassy. I suggest you read this. Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income

 

[JLCrab]

31 minutes ago, billsmart said:

A letter from your embassy verifying you receive a pension (not just any income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month. (As of 2020, this will be the ONLY acceptable proof of monthly income.), or…Embassy will say that you are who you say youare and nothing else.

A letter from the US Embassy will say that you are who you say you are and nothing else so that would mean US citizens are not eligible for extension based on monthly income. OK.

[Pattaya46]

13 minutes ago, billsmart said:

glegolo, What I have written above is the official announcement from Immigrations. //

No,

at most the actual interpretation of coming rules by your local Immigration.

Many of their rules don't match the 2 recent changes in the police order !

[billsmart]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Nonsense

Not sure who gave you that incorrect info. Both are accepted as of now since many people can no longer get income proof from their embassy. I suggest you read this. Amendment to police order 138/2557 Revising clauses 2.18 and 2.22 to include options for proof of income

 

They were very clear about ONLY accepting letters from your embassy regarding pension beginning in 2020. for 2019, they will accept a letter from your bank as I've described.

Retirement Visa Rules 2020.pdf

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, billsmart said:

ubonjoe, After this year (2019) and starting in 2020, the 65K or 40K a month deposits WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED as proof of income/pension for a Retirement visa. Only a letter from an embassy will be accepted as proof of pension income.

 

First off, what you posted as a PDF file above is not any kind of official Immigration document.

 

It's a document someone has prepared in English on their own, perhaps the local Immigration office you deal with, but clearly not Immigration HQ.

 

It may well represent what someone in your local IO thinks the rules will be. But that's hardly official policy.

 

There's a well established pattern here of local Immigration offices making up their own interpretations of things that go beyond or otherwise depart from what the official policy is.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[billsmart]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No,

at most the actual interpretation of coming rules by your local Immigration.

Many of their rules don't match the 2 recent changes in the police order !

I don't like it either and pushed back on it, but, here it is...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020.pdf

[crees]

So now retirement visa has to keep 800 thousand Baht in the bank for a total of six months and after that leave a minimum of 400 baht in for the other six months. I have a marriage visa now and my immigration office keeps asking me to go to a retirement visa and save everyone some paperwork. Can anyone, other than Thai Immigration, tell me why I should use the Retirement Visa over the Marriage Visa that I have had for quite some time now?

[billsmart]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

First off, what you posted as a PDF file above is not any kind of official Immigration document.

 

It's a document someone has prepared in English on their own, perhaps the local Immigration office you deal with, but clearly not Immigration HQ.

 

It may well represent what someone in your local IO thinks the rules will be. But that's hardly official policy.

 

I'd be happy if that were the case. I have the entire document, the "official" Thai version. I can't read Thai, but I can read English.

[Mavideol]

and this is news why? we have been covering that for the past 188 pages&days, it's getting out of hand

[billsmart]

3 minutes ago, crees said:

So now retirement visa has to keep 800 thousand Baht in the bank for a total of six months and after that leave a minimum of 400 baht in for the other six months. I have a marriage visa now and my immigration office keeps asking me to go to a retirement visa and save everyone some paperwork. Can anyone, other than Thai Immigration, tell me why I should use the Retirement Visa over the Marriage Visa that I have had for quite some time now?

There is no reason you should change from a Marriage to a Retirement visa unless you get a divorce. The Retirement visa is just there to accommodate ex-pats who want to live in Thailand but are not married to a Thai. Also, I've had both, and a Retirement visa has a lot less paperwork.

[billsmart]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

and this is news why? we have been covering that for the past 188 pages&days, it's getting out of hand

For me, the news that beginning in 2020, Immigration will no longer be accepting letters from your bank to prove your income is news to me.

[Longcut]

It may come to pass in the coming year that more people leave Thailand, not because of financial difficulties but because they are tired of all the BS and rule changes. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I'd be happy if that were the case. I have the entire document, the "official" Thai version. I can't read Thai, but I can read English.

 Go ahead and post the Thai version, since others here can read Thai... and that also will tell who/where the document originated from.

 

[billsmart]

8 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

First off, what you posted as a PDF file above is not any kind of official Immigration document.

 

It's a document someone has prepared in English on their own, perhaps the local Immigration office you deal with, but clearly not Immigration HQ.

 

It may well represent what someone in your local IO thinks the rules will be. But that's hardly official policy.

 

There's a well established pattern here of local Immigration offices making up their own interpretations of things that go beyond or otherwise depart from what the official policy is.

 

 

That may be so. I don't think it is, but it may be. It had some new rules of which I wasn't previously aware. I'd suggest anyone that might be affected should check it out at their own Immigration office like I did.

[fforest1]

Cant even go a week now with out some fresh visa horse shit being pooped all over this forum.....Visa rules change about as often as the weather around here...

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, crees said:

So now retirement visa has to keep 800 thousand Baht in the bank for a total of six months and after that leave a minimum of 400 baht in for the other six months. I have a marriage visa now and my immigration office keeps asking me to go to a retirement visa and save everyone some paperwork. Can anyone, other than Thai Immigration, tell me why I should use the Retirement Visa over the Marriage Visa that I have had for quite some time now?

You shouldn’t. If you’re married it’s, IMO, the right and best option.

 

Immigration often try to push people to the apply based on retirement — if they have the required 800K or 65K — because they can grant the extension on the spot, and it’s less paperwork/work.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, billsmart said:

That may be so. I don't think it is, but it may be. It had some new rules of which I wasn't previously aware. I'd suggest anyone that might be affected should check it out at their own Immigration office like I did.

 

The one thing that occurs to me is that, recall, there was an article in Khaosod EN a week or so back talking about the new official Immigration rules re monthly bank transfers into Thailand getting pushback from within Immigration. So I suppose it's possible Immigration might be rejiggering to make that a transitional policy.

 

But until/unless you post the Thai version of what you have, we're really not going to know what to make of it.

 

[fforest1]

4 minutes ago, Longcut said:

It may come to pass in the coming year that more people leave Thailand, not because of financial difficulties but because they are tired of all the BS and rule changes. 

It gets very old very fast the rules changing all the time..