The Latest Info on Retirement Visas from Immigrations

[Mavideol]

5 minutes ago, billsmart said:

For me, the news that beginning in 2020, Immigration will no longer be accepting letters from your bank to prove your income is news to me.

check the posts and you will see how many times this has been reported.... your post doesn't provide any new information, it only proofs that you didn't read the previous posts

[Chodi25]

I never seriously considered keeping a minimum balance of 800k in my Thai savings account before just because it is a waste of a lot of money. You get little or no interest on that savings from a Thai bank. I wonder if they would accept money in a Thai brokerage account. There are some large international brokerage firms in Bangkok. At least that would put the money to work. 

[spidermike007]

Recently returned from immigration, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. I believe at this point, that if Brittany Spears were to declare her candidacy, she would beat Prayuth, hands down. That is how much he and the army are despised, at this point. Especially after the recent stunt he pulled.

[Rc2702]

19 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I'd be happy if that were the case. I have the entire document, the "official" Thai version. I can't read Thai, but I can read English.

Then just post the official Thai document it's no use talking about it if you cannot read it. Someone will read it.

[billsmart]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 Go ahead and post the Thai version, since others here can read Thai... and that also will tell who/where the document originated from.

 

Okay, here is the entire packet I was given...

If you or someone else reads this and find out anything I've said on this Forum posing is not correct, please let me know... (I'm sure you will... ????)

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf

[billsmart]

16 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The one thing that occurs to me is that, recall, there was an article in Khaosod EN a week or so back talking about the new official Immigration rules re monthly bank transfers into Thailand getting pushback from within Immigration. So I suppose it's possible Immigration might be rejiggering to make that a transitional policy.

 

But until/unless you post the Thai version of what you have, we're really not going to know what to make of it.

 

Here is the Thai version. Please let me know what you think, especially if you find out anything I've said on this thread is incorrect...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf

[gmmarvin]

What is the name of the form you can request from your receiving bank,  to show international transfer is received by a intermediate local bank?

[billsmart]

12 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Then just post the official Thai document it's no use talking about it if you cannot read it. Someone will read it.

Here it is...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf

[marcusarelus]

23 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

It gets very old very fast the rules changing all the time..

I don't think anyone really knows.  What you mean is gets old reading TV opinions of what the rules may be. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Here is the Thai version. Please let me know what you think, especially if you find out anything I've said on this thread is incorrect...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf 2.87 MB · 0 downloads

 

My wife, who's a notoriously bad TH-EN translator, says the memo you posted is dated Jan. 28 and has a BKK Immigration phone number on the lead info at the top of the first page.

 

PS - Thanks very much for posting the original version in Thai, which does seem to be an official Immigration document.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[CharlieH]

4 minutes ago, gmmarvin said:

What is the name of the form you can request from your receiving bank,  to show international transfer is received by a intermediate local bank?

"Credit advice" 

[cmarshall]

9 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My wife, who's a notoriously bad TH-EN translator, says the memo you posted is dated Jan. 28 and has a BKK Immigration phone number on the lead info at the top of the first page.

 

PS - Thanks very much for posting the original version in Thai, which does seem to be an official Immigration document.

 

 

Actually, it looks like an official immigration document to which has been appended further details of unknown, possibly local, origin.

Edited February 10, 2019 by cmarshall

[seajae]

"And, one other thing I’ve verified is the online service TRANSFERWISE DOES NOT ACTUALLY DO INTERNATIONAL TRANSFERS.  They do two domestic transfers for your individual transfer, and then settle their accounts up somehow monthly or quarterly. That’s how they can provide you with this service at a lower rate than a regular, individual, international wire transfer."

Have no idea where you got this info from but I have been using Transfer wise for several years and every payment I get from Australia into my bank account by them is listed as an international transfer but I am with Bangkok Bank, I have seen that some of the other banks do not list it as an international transfer but Bangkok Bank do, thats why I use them.

[Moon37]

1 hour ago, sniggie said:

Well, if this is genuine (and, as a player in the market, your company has a vested interest in it being so) then the embassies that have withdrawn the income letters will have to have a serious rethink on how they are screwing over so many of their citizens if there is no other acceptable way of proving income. Their (coordinated?) action last year was on the presumption that the income based extension would continue in some form or other. I hold out little hope, though.   

Sniggie,

As a face saving move on the part of the US Embassy, I believe that in order to get an income verification letters it would have to have endorsed Legitimate Pension Statements attached to them.  In essence, the pension letter would be the proof and the USEMB would be verifying an official pension document vs a raised right hand.

  That puts one heck of burden to validate Pension Statements (in terms of source, amount and duration). 

[Sheryl]

16 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

Actually, it looks like an official immigration document to which has been appended further details of unknown, possibly local, origin.

Agree. The last page, in  English, looks like the type of things many Imm offices develop to hand out to people.

 

And, it looks like it has not been updated to reflect the new amendment to the police order on income method, but has been amended to reflect the new directive on the 800k method.

 

Interesting to get their take on the combo method.  This is not what I would have thought the directive meant but it is one possible interpretation. If true - or if most IOs take it this way - then there is little advantage to using combo method in cases where the income is just a little bit below 65K.  Only if the income is well below it.

 

[Orton Rd]

So much conflicting info, the only opinion that is going to matter is the one of the IO in front of you when you are renewing the extension, that is unpredictable at any time.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Orton Rd

[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, seajae said:

"And, one other thing I’ve verified is the online service TRANSFERWISE DOES NOT ACTUALLY DO INTERNATIONAL TRANSFERS.  They do two domestic transfers for your individual transfer, and then settle their accounts up somehow monthly or quarterly. That’s how they can provide you with this service at a lower rate than a regular, individual, international wire transfer."

Have no idea where you got this info from but I have been using Transfer wise for several years and every payment I get from Australia into my bank account by them is listed as an international transfer but I am with Bangkok Bank, I have seen that some of the other banks do not list it as an international transfer but Bangkok Bank do, thats why I use them.

We have been through this ad nauseum on other threads. It shows as an international transfer if your bank is the bank they used for the transfer - they use a total of 3 different Thai banks and currently seem to use Bangkok Bank far more often than the other 2. But not always, and there have been posters who report an occasional transfer to their BB account appearing as a domestic transfer.

 

If  TW uses a bank other than yours, the bank that first receives it will do a domestic transfer to your bank and that, obviously, will show as a domestic transfer.

 

I personally emailed TW about this and they informed me that they might use any of 3 Thai banks and that they cannot say (and customers cannot choose) in advance which one it will be.

 

I would be cautious about continuing to use TW for the income method of extension and assuming that because your account is with BB it will always show as FTT.  This is not guaranteed. At present it will show as FTT most of the time but sooner or later you will get a transfer or two that does not.

 

 

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

So much conflicting info, the only opinion that is going to matter is the one of the IO in front of you when you are renewing the extension, that is unpredictable at any time.

True, but it is helpful to hear from others and see the trend.

[Pib]

For me, the news that beginning in 2020, Immigration will no longer be accepting letters from your bank to prove your income is news to me.

And if that turns out to be true that will truly suck. But I will not be surprised if it does turn out to be true because TIT.

[Sheryl]

56 minutes ago, Chodi25 said:

I never seriously considered keeping a minimum balance of 800k in my Thai savings account before just because it is a waste of a lot of money. You get little or no interest on that savings from a Thai bank. I wonder if they would accept money in a Thai brokerage account. There are some large international brokerage firms in Bangkok. At least that would put the money to work.�

Probably not as the amount is not guaranteed?

[moe666]

More false info and fear mongering, the official police order has been posted here on Thai Visa with all the new requirements. The lack of reading comprehension among people or the need to make things more complicated than they are is laughfable

[Spidey]

54 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Okay, here is the entire packet I was given...

If you or someone else reads this and find out anything I've said on this Forum posing is not correct, please let me know... (I'm sure you will... ????)

Retirement Visa Rules 2020 Thai.pdf 2.87 MB · 19 downloads

This version is a complete cobble together.

 

For the 65k baht income method, it's the old version, pre Embassies withdrawing their letters.

No mention of 65k baht from a foreign source going into a Thai bank, either this year or next.

 

I suspect that it's Phetchabun Immigration's (a.k.a. Nakon Nowhere Immigration) attempt at denying that the new method of proving monthly income exists. Probably because they can't get their heads round it and think that it will be too much trouble for them.

 

Appear to have combined 2 documents together. The original document showing the 65k/ month method and the new document outlining method of proving 800k in a Thai bank method.

 

Nice try. Suspect that you won't see this document anywhere outside Phetchabun Immigration.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Spidey

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, sniggie said:

he embassies that have withdrawn the income letters will have to have a serious rethink

I vehemently disagree.  Consider it is Thailand that should seriously rethink.  It is their regulation, not the regulation of the U.S., U.K., Australia, or Denmark.  Thailand is for all intents demanding that the rest of the world be their auditors to comply with their rules.  Thai immigration already approves numerous foreign documents such as marriage, divorce, police, medical etc.  For them to get 12 monthly statements from a local thai bank or for that matter 112 statements from any foreign bank that shows a 65K baht minimum pension is a no brainer.  They just are pushing to get more foreign money into the Thai banks. 

[moe666]

11 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

So much conflicting info, the only opinion that is going to matter is the one of the IO in front of you when you are renewing the extension, that is unpredictable at any time.

That is what it always boils down to

[phutoie2]

Just read through the PDF Bill posted and that is me totally screwed for the retirement combo method. My pension is just a small amount from the required funds and just keep a small sum in a Thai bank. Extension is due in a few weeks time, I already have the UK Embassy letter. Will not have time to get the 400K.

The IO Bill is commenting on is Phetchabun, they have only been open a few years, before that we all came under Phitsanulok. 

 

[Justin Side]

1 hour ago, billsmart said:

There is no reason you should change from a Marriage to a Retirement visa unless you get a divorce. The Retirement visa is just there to accommodate ex-pats who want to live in Thailand but are not married to a Thai. Also, I've had both, and a Retirement visa has a lot less paperwork.

Neither of these are "Visas".

They are extensions of your permission to stay.

[Moon37]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

We have been through this ad nauseum on other threads. It shows as an international transfer if your bank is the bank they used for the transfer - they use a total of 3 different Thai banks and currently seem to use Bangkok Bank far more often than the other 2. But not always, and there have been posters who report an occasional transfer to their BB account appearing as a domestic transfer.

 

If  TW uses a bank other than yours, the bank that first receives it will do a domestic transfer to your bank and that, obviously, will show as a domestic transfer.

 

I personally emailed TW about this and they informed me that they might use any of 3 Thai banks and that they cannot say (and customers cannot choose) in advance which one it will be. 

 

I would be cautious about continuing to use TW for the income method of extension and assuming that because your account is with BB it will always show as FTT.  This is not guaranteed. At present it will show as FTT most of the time but sooner or later you will get a transfer or two that does not.

 

 

Hi Sheryl,  I've spent many hours/days researching the International ACH Transfer Direct Deposits.  One has to have a Direct Deposit to receive the IAT DD.  US Banks shy away from all the point to point verification etc  Currently the only US Fianacial Institution that issues IAT Direct Deposits is the Dept of Treasury (ie.  All USG agencies)..   Bangkok Bank NY linked up with Social Security as a starter.  I suggest you recontact TW and ask them for one US Bank they use so you can set up an account (direct deposit).   See my previous post below (ignore my comments on Marshalls SS security,  But Everything I've summarized above is in detail below.  Also ask 

 

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Posted 14 hours ago

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 11:19 AM, cmarshall said:

Bangkok Bank must have a contractual obligation with the US govt. to verify that the SS beneficiary is still living.  Expat beneficiaries pose a special risk of fraud to the SSA, since in the US the funeral directors have the obligation to inform the SSA of every death.  There is no such reliable notification of death available in Thailand. 

Marshall: NEGATIVE, How about the body being repatriated with the US Embassy,

 

The requirement for IAT direct deposit has been around for quite a while.  Bangkok Bank just recently brushed off the books and want to be in compliance.   Bangkok Bank NYC is the only bank in the US that can process IAT transfers direct deposits from the US to Bangkok Bank BKK.  At first it sounds like one just has to switch income source to social security and make sure their Thai home address is on the receiver's information.   Well afer researching is much more involved, limiting access to your funds etc.

 

An International ACHH Transfer is not just a modified ACHT.  It'[s a system that validates point to point originator and receiver such that there is always a money trail. No US banks want to go through the extra effort to confirm that the originator Financial Institution is IAT compliant as well as the receivers'.  It's at least more than half as much manhours with the back and forth processing and confirmation.

 

Right now the USG/s departments are the only institution that conducts all financial transactions through the complete IAT system.   Bangkok Bank is only using  Social Security as a method that they've figured out.  But checkout the form and proces by searching "social security sf 1199a direct deposit form". and its https://www.rfmsonline.com/downloads/forms/sf1199.pdf applicationt to the USG for approval.  And one has to have s a direct deposit account different from savings and needs to get permission from the Ministry of Commerce.

 

How many ex-pat's  SS check are greater than $2100 approx. 65,000 THB),  So I ght to look at two iAT direct deposits per month :  SS and the DVA iAT DIrect Deposit process and searched DVA Direct Deposit Enrollment and at first found the DV Direct Deposit Enrollment  FM DVA 24-096 (Enrollment) Continue searching DFAS, CIVIAL SERVAT ETC ALL CAN HAVE IAT TRANSFERS THROUGT, if ONE WANTS.

 

BOTTOM  LINE:  Marshall you conspiracy theory is bunk.    BUT, I'm not going to have my financial hands tied. I'm going to pay a little more and use Swift.   I've already got the Bangkok Bank account and Bank of America has been transferrigng to BB NYC for over 5 years. Just got to get it going by the 1 March as 1 Apr could be how long it takes to validate the move.

 

Tough times ahead:  "Don't Fight it, just enjoy it!"

 

Moon

"Speed is Life, Life is Speed:

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

My wife, who's not the greatest translator, translated the document for me.

 

According to her, it's a new police order with a reference of 35/2019 dated Jan. 18, 2019, and has the main sheet (2nd page) signed by the national police chief Jakthip. And is an update to police order 327/2557. And has an effective date of March 1, 2019.

 

From the wife's reading, it deals entirely with the rules and conditions for retirement extensions, and is silent on anything to do with marriage extensions.

 

So it definitely appears to be a legitimate document and the guts of which deserve our attention.

 

From my wife's reading, all the documents in TH language are coming from the main police and/or Immigration offices, and not some memos issued by a local Immigration office.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[phutoie2]

5 minutes ago, Justin Side said:

Neither of these are "Visas".

They are extensions of your permission to stay.

Let's not go there again, we all know that, but the Phetchabun Immigration Officers all call them visa's, and my advice is do not get in a p*ss*ng contest with them. I tried it and came second. 

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Moon37 said:

 I suggest you recontact TW and ask them for one US Bank they use so you can set up an account (direct deposit).  

 

 

I don't follow this. If I had an international  direct deposit arrangement why would I need to involve TW?