Officials will be charged for not performing duty over Phoenix disaster, national police deputy commander confirms

[rooster59]

Officials will be charged for not performing duty over Phoenix disaster, national police deputy commander confirms 

By The Phuket News

 

The ’Phoenix’ is pictured at the Rattanachai Shipyard, east of Phuket Town. Photo: Supplied
 

PHUKET: Officials will be charged for not performing their duty over the Phoenix tour boat disaster in July last year that killed 47 tourists, Royal Thai Police Deputy Commander Gen Rungroj Saengkram has confirmed to The Phuket News.

 

“The police investigation into the Phoenix has been completed,” Gen Rungroj told The Phuket News yesterday (Mar 1).

 

“All reports have been handed to local police and the Public Prosecutor’s Office already,” added Gen Rungroj, who has been tasked with overseeing the investigation into Thailand’s worst maritime disaster in modern history.

Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/officials-will-be-charged-for-not-performing-duty-over-phoenix-disaster-national-police-deputy-commander-confirms-70574.php#T2kZ4blwFSvoZAIU.97

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-03-02

[Oziex1]

Why bother, the tourists are back the sun is shining all is OK. 

[RotBenz8888]

Good that those responsible are being charged. But the main focus should be to get rid of ALL the corrupt officials who fail to keep people safe because of their money hunger.

[scorecard]

Nice strong statement, but let's wait and see nd my the 'wait' will be 20 years.

 

On the other hand if it's processed quickly, they are found guilty and punished appropriately (47 people died) I see several possible positives:

 

- Punishment and a new chapter in terms of officials being punished for being lazy.

 

- If the government has any merit they will change the way things are monitored because they fear charges of dereliction of duty, and they will get serious to appoint capable people 

 

- I'll stop there, I'm dreaming.

 

 

[bluesofa]

<quote>"Gen Rungroj also declined to confirm whether the officials were from the Marine Department, and also said that he was unable to recall the names when called by The Phuket News."<unquote>

 

<quote>Asked specifically who signed the approval to register the boat, Mr Wiwat in November said, “I don’t know.”<unquote>

 

For something that has taken months to investigate, no one seems any the wiser. I'd have thought they would want to make a watertight case over this. Doesn't appear to be so.

No one seems to be any the wiser or even better informed. I take it they have ordered a lot of animal food for the scapegoats.

[impulse]

I always wonder if they're actually prosecuting the guilty, or just purging political foes.

 

[impulse]

58 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

<quote>"Gen Rungroj also declined to confirm whether the officials were from the Marine Department, and also said that he was unable to recall the names when called by The Phuket News."<unquote>

 

<quote>Asked specifically who signed the approval to register the boat, Mr Wiwat in November said, “I don’t know.”<unquote>

 

For something that has taken months to investigate, no one seems any the wiser. I'd have thought they would want to make a watertight case over this. Doesn't appear to be so.

No one seems to be any the wiser or even better informed. I take it they have ordered a lot of animal food for the scapegoats.

 

Can you blame the guy?  5 minutes after a name pops out of his mouth, he could be on the dock himself for defamation- and end up in prison when the well connected perpetrators go free. 

 

And "I'd tell you, but I'm afraid I'd be prosecuted under Thailand's draconian defamation laws" is probably not a viable answer.  "I don't remember" is the safe response.

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by impulse

[seajae]

I take it the chinese husband is no longer in Thailand and will not be returning, he will let his wife do the jail time for him. Certainly sounds like there were a few brown envelopes passed over to get it all approved, will be interesting to see who it was they paid off in the govt

[colinneil]

Whoever the officials are, they should be charged/ prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

This looks like another case of the dreaded brown envelope syndrome.

[Old Croc]

12 hours ago, seajae said:

I take it the chinese husband is no longer in Thailand and will not be returning, he will let his wife do the jail time for him. Certainly sounds like there were a few brown envelopes passed over to get it all approved, will be interesting to see who it was they paid off in the govt

My thoughts are it is unlikely to be a genuine marriage, just a business partnership.

Many naive Thais are left holding the bag after selling their name to legitimize business ventures or scams.

An example would be the group from Rawai who opened bank accounts in their own names then sold them to romance scammers to use for illegal purposes. They're whining now because they're likely to be charged.

[wealthychef]

This is purely a financial question.  If the officers' bribes exceed their fines for negligence, they profit.  Same as corporate malfeasance.  

[connda]

The have to throw some sacrificial victims under the bus in order to provide the veneer that they have "done something" in order to appease the Chinese.  Although the damage has already been done, why not ruin a bunch more lives?

[hotchilli]

15 hours ago, bluesofa said:

<quote>"Gen Rungroj also declined to confirm whether the officials were from the Marine Department, and also said that he was unable to recall the names when called by The Phuket News."<unquote>

 

<quote>Asked specifically who signed the approval to register the boat, Mr Wiwat in November said, “I don’t know.”<unquote>

 

For something that has taken months to investigate, no one seems any the wiser. I'd have thought they would want to make a watertight case over this. Doesn't appear to be so.

No one seems to be any the wiser or even better informed. I take it they have ordered a lot of animal food for the scapegoats.

No one is wiser, no one is better trained, nothing is checked better than before in fact nothing is different !

Just wait for the "action" to be taken against those found responsible, probably just a fine & an inactive post, not jail time for manslaughter !!

[xylophone]

15 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Good that those responsible are being charged. But the main focus should be to get rid of ALL the corrupt officials who fail to keep people safe because of their money hunger.

As you probably know, Patong is absolutely riddled with corruption and corrupt officials, although I'm not totally sure if this stretches to the whole of Phuket.

 

It starts with the BIB who collect their monthly payments from all of the bars, and encompasses just about every aspect of Patong life ranging from dummy chanotes, to local Mafia charging tourists for accessing public beaches and the building of just about anything, anywhere, provided money changes hands.

 

Because it is so deeply ingrained here and many "officials" and others benefit from it, it is highly unlikely that anything will change so read what you will into this latest news and remember that the folks who run this place really don't want anything to change because it is their way of life – – they are used to corruption, they rely on it to provide them with income and power and they foster it wherever possible, just to keep the wheels turning.

 

This latest news wont change a thing.

[bluesofa]

9 minutes ago, hotchilli said:

No one is wiser, no one is better trained, nothing is checked better than before in fact nothing is different !

Just wait for the "action" to be taken against those found responsible, probably just a fine & an inactive post, not jail time for manslaughter !!

The whole thing's a joke. Ah no, that's man's laughter, not manslaughter.

No coincidence about the close spelling, well here in Thailand anyway.

[Snow Leopard]

I always find it amazing in modern society how someone always has to be blamed. It is always someone's fault. Someone is always culpable. No matter where you are. 

 

If you look at this situation. If this company had a better maintenance program, Better trained personnel, Rigorous safety procedures and standards what would happen to the price of a ticket? It would go up. So then the Chinese tourists are free to go and sail on a cheaper less maintained vessel of a competitor. 

 

Don't pick on one company or a few individuals. The whole industry needs to be lifted up. The military government is really good about passing stupid laws like banning smoking in an airport where there are already smoking rooms. They are totally incapable of enacting laws that relate to safety at sea and other serious issues affecting Thailand. Jesus, they have a Navy and Coast Guard for god sake. They are about to operate a fleet of military submarines. Get a grip and take responsibility that your existing systems don't work, Are outdated, Open to corruption and fix it. Where is Big Joke when you need him? 

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, Snow Leopard said:

{snipped}

Don't pick on one company or a few individuals. The whole industry needs to be lifted up. The military government is really good about passing stupid laws like banning smoking in an airport where there are already smoking rooms. They are totally incapable of enacting laws that relate to safety at sea and other serious issues affecting Thailand. Jesus, they have a Navy and Coast Guard for god sake. They are about to operate a fleet of military submarines. Get a grip and take responsibility that your existing systems don't work, Are outdated, Open to corruption and fix it. Where is Big Joke when you need him? 

I'd like to be a mosquito on the wall when that happens.

I wonder if they ordered the optional windscreen wipers:

"The gulf is relatively shallow: its mean depth is 58 metres (190 ft) and the maximum depth is only 85 metres (279 ft).[9]:250 This makes water exchange slow, and the strong water inflow from the rivers reduce the level of salinity in the gulf (3.05–3.25 percent) and enriches the sediments."

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Thailand

 

[animalmagic]

17 hours ago, bluesofa said:

<quote>"Gen Rungroj also declined to confirm whether the officials were from the Marine Department, and also said that he was unable to recall the names when called by The Phuket News."<unquote>

 

<quote>Asked specifically who signed the approval to register the boat, Mr Wiwat in November said, “I don’t know.”<unquote>

 

For something that has taken months to investigate, no one seems any the wiser. I'd have thought they would want to make a watertight case over this. Doesn't appear to be so.

No one seems to be any the wiser or even better informed. I take it they have ordered a lot of animal food for the scapegoats.

Watertight case?!!!  ????  Love your choice of words.

The boat seems in quite good shape structurally apart from the upper deck.  Hard to judge from one picture but there appears to be a lot of boat above the waterline and the upper deck and roof seem to have been used for passengers.  I've seen other places where boats have been overloaded up top and everybody rushes/congregates to one side; it doesn't end well.  Not sure if the boat was modified or centre of gravity tested for various loadings above the waterline; but I would think not.

[Lupatria]

19 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Officials will be charged for not performing duty

Is it possible Police Deputy Commander Gen Rungroj Saengkram is the first to suspect the number of holders of inactive posts is reaching a critical level?

[Nip]

19 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

Good that those responsible are being charged. But the main focus should be to get rid of ALL the corrupt officials who fail to keep people safe because of their money hunger.

They will be charged all right and money will exchange hands but this is Phuket and not the real world so the money will end up in some judicial retirement fund. Forget the loaves and fishes Phuket is where the real miracles occur. You see once upon a crime the Thainese used to mine tin now they have discovered it's far easier to mine foreigners. 

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

I always find it amazing in modern society how someone always has to be blamed. It is always someone's fault. Someone is always culpable. No matter where you are. 

Well that's how things work.............

 

If you are the owner of a company and responsible for its running and the welfare of its employees and customers, then you are also responsible and accountable for the maintenance of the "vehicles" and the training of the staff, as well as the safety procedures and so on.

 

The old saying, "the buck stops here", was not something just dreamt up out of nowhere, as it does apply to many things in life.

 

The problem here is that such scant regard is given to things that really do concern safety, in return for the baht and backhander and because it's a way of life (or death) these things are going to continue to happen.

 

And it pays to remember where you are!!

[Snow Leopard]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Well that's how things work.............

 

If you are the owner of a company and responsible for its running and the welfare of its employees and customers, then you are also responsible and accountable for the maintenance of the "vehicles" and the training of the staff, as well as the safety procedures and so on.

 

The old saying, "the buck stops here", was not something just dreamt up out of nowhere, as it does apply to many things in life.

 

The problem here is that such scant regard is given to things that really do concern safety, in return for the baht and backhander and because it's a way of life (or death) these things are going to continue to happen.

 

And it pays to remember where you are!!

Sorry but it's not how things work. You strive to make everything as safe as possible. But humans are humans. Accidents happen. Culpability is a stupid lawyer thing because someone must be to blame. No matter what. Not saying it is the actual cause in this instance but mechanical things do fail sometimes, They always have done and always will do. There are crossover points in responsibility between the person doing repairs and the owner. 

 

You missed my point. The whole safety culture is wrong in Thailand in many industries, services and walks of life. Raise the bar. No one is interested in doing this because of the points you stated. Baht and Backhanders. 

 

Putting a few people in jail won't make any difference at all. 

[xylophone]

21 minutes ago, Snow Leopard said:

Sorry but it's not how things work. You strive to make everything as safe as possible. But humans are humans. Accidents happen. Culpability is a stupid lawyer thing because someone must be to blame. No matter what. Not saying it is the actual cause in this instance but mechanical things do fail sometimes, They always have done and always will do. There are crossover points in responsibility between the person doing repairs and the owner. 

 

You missed my point. The whole safety culture is wrong in Thailand in many industries, services and walks of life. Raise the bar. No one is interested in doing this because of the points you stated. Baht and Backhanders. 

 

Putting a few people in jail won't make any difference at all. 

I think we must be talking at cross purposes somewhere along the line, although not quite sure where?

 

I agree that mechanical things do fail sometimes, and very often that failure can be traced back to lack of maintenance, lack of design, lack of correct installation and so on. And in the vast majority of cases something like this can be traced back to someone – – – someone with responsibility for doing something or responsibility for training someone or responsibility for checking something and so on.

 

Accidents do happen and again in the vast majority of cases they can be traced back to an event in which a human was involved, hence the reason why blame is apportioned.

 

I agree that the whole safety culture is wrong in Thailand in many industries and that is mainly due to the fact that money is not spent on ensuring that the safety culture is right – – training, retraining, checking the knowledge level of personnel and so on, as well as ensuring that the consequences are well known. And as for preventative maintenance here......forget it.

 

I am sure that you have realised by now that the baht is king in just about everything here in Thailand and is ultimately the key factor in a range of things from spraying far too many dangerous pesticides on food that we eat, through to not enforcing the crash helmet laws.

 

I am pretty certain that this particular boat was unsafe as regards aspects of its design and operation and any inspections that should have been done along the way would have been influenced by the baht and/or a backhander. IMO.

 

PS. Forgot to add..... “I know there are only four to five pages of plans (for the boat), which is suspicious because a boat like this is supposed to have more than that, about 70 pages. I have openly shared my thoughts about this and that it looks strange,” 

Edited March 3, 2019 by xylophone

[impulse]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

I agree that the whole safety culture is wrong in Thailand in many industries and that is mainly due to the fact that money is not spent on ensuring that the safety culture is right – – training, retraining, checking the knowledge level of personnel and so on, as well as ensuring that the consequences are well known. And as for preventative maintenance here......forget it.

 

I suspect that, as a percentage of the economy, Thailand spends as much or more of their GDP on safety than they do back in Europe or North America.  But when the GDP per capita is about 1/10 of what it is in the west, that's not a big base of money to pull from.  And when you're renting a room out for $10-20 a night instead of $150, or charging $5 for a boat ride instead of $50 like back home, there's not a lot of money left over for niceties like maintenance, training and safety systems.  

 

In that regard, everyone that comes to Thailand for a cheap holiday plays a role.  If Thailand actually upped the safety and the prices to go along, we'd have a mass shift in tourism to Cambodia or Myanmar because Thailand would price itself out of the market.  Customers are a fickle lot.  Especially the ones who shop the interweb to get the cheapest of everything, with no consideration of their odds of coming back alive. 

 

Can't really blame them, since 99.9% survive even the dodgiest holiday venues.  But the difference between 99.9% and 99.95% is a few hundred dead bodies a year.

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by impulse

[madmitch]

20 hours ago, Snow Leopard said:

I always find it amazing in modern society how someone always has to be blamed. It is always someone's fault. Someone is always culpable. No matter where you are. 

 

If you look at this situation. If this company had a better maintenance program, Better trained personnel, Rigorous safety procedures and standards what would happen to the price of a ticket? It would go up. So then the Chinese tourists are free to go and sail on a cheaper less maintained vessel of a competitor. 

 

Don't pick on one company or a few individuals. The whole industry needs to be lifted up. The military government is really good about passing stupid laws like banning smoking in an airport where there are already smoking rooms. They are totally incapable of enacting laws that relate to safety at sea and other serious issues affecting Thailand. Jesus, they have a Navy and Coast Guard for god sake. They are about to operate a fleet of military submarines. Get a grip and take responsibility that your existing systems don't work, Are outdated, Open to corruption and fix it. Where is Big Joke when you need him? 

Yes< accidents do occur but more often than not there's some culpability somewhere. The issue in Thailand is that few people are ever strong enough to accept responsibility for their actions.

[Snow Leopard]

1 hour ago, madmitch said:

Yes< accidents do occur but more often than not there's some culpability somewhere. The issue in Thailand is that few people are ever strong enough to accept responsibility for their actions.

Yes, I agree but even in well-developed countries with excellent safety standards, with people that are well-educated accidents like this (Human Error) occur quite often, culpability has more chance of being applied in these countries than in Thailand. 

 

This is what I meant originally. 

 

Culpability = A culture of Ambulance chasing lawyers invented in the USA that tries to get a percentage of a fee that more often than not an insurance company is going to pay. Because it has been so successful now governments use this as well to extort money from private companies. It simply does not mean that the vessel owner is at fault because the engineer involved installed a deal wrong or something mechanical broke. 

 

Safety Culture = Attitudes change and improve due to a major accident, incidents or a major disaster. Usually involves a mass loss of life. Pheonix is not in this category. So nothing will change at all. It's that simple. 

 

Safety Standards = This is what Thailand needs to do. This is done by education, training in safety culture and then an improvement in overall safety. Then enforceable inspections come into play. If everyone complies and does this then ticket prices will increase but fairly because no one has an edge. 

 

Talking about Culpability where bribery, corruption and a complete lack of transparency are in play means nothing. 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Snow Leopard said:

Talking about Culpability where bribery, corruption and a complete lack of transparency are in play means nothing. 

Except that they can all play a part in the grand scheme of things........they are inextricably intertwined here.

 

Agree on some aspects of your post but it seems that we will have to agree to disagree in the main.

[Snow Leopard]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

Except that they can all play a part in the grand scheme of things........they are inextricably intertwined here.

 

Agree on some aspects of your post but it seems that we will have to agree to disagree in the main.

Fair enough. It's not worth arguing over is it.

[nkg]

 

deleted

 

Edited March 4, 2019 by nkg
deleted

[scorecard]

On 3/2/2019 at 9:10 PM, RotBenz8888 said:

Good that those responsible are being charged. But the main focus should be to get rid of ALL the corrupt officials who fail to keep people safe because of their money hunger.

Agree, dismiss them with severe punishment and banned for life from any direct employment or positions to advise or influence government projects and/or government spending.