Blocking a creek

[mikejphuket]

I have a piece of land blessed with a natural flowing creek ( i am at the base of a "mountain"). On the downhill side of the property is a small road and the water passes through a culvert. The landowner (influential person) on the other side of the road has blocked the end of the culvert and is in the process of building a substantial retaining wall as well. His land is the only place the water can go and he is refusing to allow it to happen. The Or Bor Tor agrees with me especially as their road will be washed away, but they say the landowner has the right to stop the water because a natural watercourse is not shown on the land title.

Any thoughts and especially a law that covers this story, in Thai or English much appreciated. I would like to have some prior knowledge before talking to a lawyer.

 

The rains are coming!! 

[Puchaiyank]

This is Thailand...a greased wheel turns more easily...???? 

[jackdd]

You said already that the road might be damaged, but imho this is the problem of the government.

Does it have any direct negative affects on your land or property?

[ballbreaker]

You can check Civil and Commercial Code.

 

Section 1339.  The owner of a piece of land is bound to take the water that flows naturally on to it from higher land. Water that flows naturally on to lower land and is necessary to such land may be retained by the owner of the higher land only to such extent as is indispensable to his land.

 

Section 1340. The owner of a piece of land is bound to take water coming to it from the higher land in consequence of the artificial drainage of the higher land, if before the drainage the water flowed naturally on to his land. If any damage is suffered by reason of such artificial drainage, the owners of the lower lands may, without prejudice to any claim for compensation, require the owner of the higher land, at the latter's expense, to carry the drainage right through the lower lands to a public waterway or drain.

 

Also find out who and when road and culvert were built.  If government owned road I'm sure they will want to know current situation.

[mikejphuket]

3 hours ago, ballbreaker said:

You can check Civil and Commercial Code.

 

Section 1339.  The owner of a piece of land is bound to take the water that flows naturally on to it from higher land. Water that flows naturally on to lower land and is necessary to such land may be retained by the owner of the higher land only to such extent as is indispensable to his land.

 

Section 1340. The owner of a piece of land is bound to take water coming to it from the higher land in consequence of the artificial drainage of the higher land, if before the drainage the water flowed naturally on to his land. If any damage is suffered by reason of such artificial drainage, the owners of the lower lands may, without prejudice to any claim for compensation, require the owner of the higher land, at the latter's expense, to carry the drainage right through the lower lands to a public waterway or drain.

 

Also find out who and when road and culvert were built.  If government owned road I'm sure they will want to know current situation.

Thank you very much, that is exactly what i am looking for. The road was built in 2005, originally without a culvert. I believe the "crossing" was done by local landowners, I don't have photos of when the culvert was put in. The owner of the big piece of land was fully aware of the situation as evidenced by the culvert built in 2014 connecting to the natural drainage. The single culvert under the road was inundated in 2017 causing flooding down the road and breaking out through the wall where the water flow turned left. Will be interesting if I can't get the culvert opened again before the next big rain and all the creek flow goes down the road. The Or Bor Tor  is presently doing major upgrade on the road so thankfully they will be doing the discussion with the landowner who is trying to play the "artificial drainage" card regarding the culvert under the road onto his land. Section 1340 clearly does not give him the right to block the water flow. Thanks again, your info is a huge help for my planning.

[direction BANGKOK]

Living out there you know better than me, but man that sounds like an uphill battle. Best case scenario you have an influencial neighbor that really, really, really does not like you. 

 

Maybe preaching to the choir but I would assuredly pass unless you got some serious backup from everyone else in the area. 

[mikejphuket]

5 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

Living out there you know better than me, but man that sounds like an uphill battle. Best case scenario you have an influencial neighbor that really, really, really does not like you. 

 

Maybe preaching to the choir but I would assuredly pass unless you got some serious backup from everyone else in the area. 

I couldn't figure how to edit original post. Influential neighbor was not really correct as used in LOS. This guy is just REALLY rich. A REAL uphill battle would be making water flow up hill; fortunately as mentioned in my post the local Or Bor Tor will be on the front line, not me. There is of course more to the story, but not for discussion here.

[metempsychotic]

13 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

Living out there you know better than me, but man that sounds like an uphill battle. Best case scenario you have an influencial neighbor that really, really, really does not like you. 

 

Maybe preaching to the choir but I would assuredly pass unless you got some serious backup from everyone else in the area. 

Yes it is always best to cower in fear. 

[Denim]

Just to clarify things , you say you have this land but foreigners are not allowed to own land here outright.

 

So , who's name is on the Chanot ?

[Enki]

6 minutes ago, Denim said:

Just to clarify things , you say you have this land but foreigners are not allowed to own land here outright.

 

So , who's name is on the Chanot ?

Who cares? Most likely his wife ... or he has an usu fruct ...

[Denim]

17 minutes ago, Enki said:

Who cares? Most likely his wife ... or he has an usu fruct ...

Exactly.

 

Laws applying to one might be slightly different from another.

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

If your land isn't flood affected then you don't have a problem. To be honest though, if you knock a small hole in that retaining wall, the flood water from the culvert would make quick work of it ????????????

[cornishcarlos]

30 minutes ago, Denim said:

Just to clarify things , you say you have this land but foreigners are not allowed to own land here outright.

 

So , who's name is on the Chanot ?

 

There's always one... Congratulations 

[direction BANGKOK]

4 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

Yes it is always best to cower in fear. 

I don't know if it is fear. For example, I do not complain about my neighbor making noise in Thailand not because of fear, but because I live in a noisy country/city, where people obviously tolerate noise. If I am afraid of anything, it is that I will go ask for it to quiet down and I know for a fact it wont. I do not believe I am cowering in fear.

 

Honestly, I would bet anytning that the original poster's situation would shake out the same no matter what he does, or if he lived there or not. Idk the specifics but that is what I would bet on. 

 

I actually think Thais are really good at this. They will tend to do the same thing with a foreigner present or not. Just not affected, which - good on them if you ask me. I do wish the best to the poster though of course. 

[direction BANGKOK]

4 hours ago, mikejphuket said:

I couldn't figure how to edit original post. Influential neighbor was not really correct as used in LOS. This guy is just REALLY rich. A REAL uphill battle would be making water flow up hill; fortunately as mentioned in my post the local Or Bor Tor will be on the front line, not me. There is of course more to the story, but not for discussion here.

Is it another foreigner? 

 

In any case, you sound well equipped to deal with it. I am sure you will make the best choice. Good luck with it all... it was cool seeing the photos. We have a "creek" too but it does not move, so maybe not a creek, more like a waterway.