Do you believe in God and why

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Hummin said:

Explain supernatural? I do not believe in supernatural, except switching a switch to make electic light 1000 years ago, would have been kind of seen as supernatural. 
 

I seriously believe humans have an tendency to see things that is not real, be it your mind trick you as in illusions, and from there make faith mixed with illusions. I believe it is hard to separate those two from each other. Reality versus Illusions! And if you cultivate and breed Illusions it becomes reality for some. 

Supernatural ( beyond the natural ) is anything that can't be explained by science but is real to those experiencing such. Eg thinking of someone far away at same time as they think of you, or deja vu.

Given my dreams are so weird, perhaps they are supernatural.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Saying that "thought " is electrical impulses produced by the brain is a gross generalization, it's more correct imho to assume that electricity, thought, consciousness are everywhere, every time.

IMO thought is something beyond reality shown to us BY electrical impulses in the brain, but not CREATED by the electrical impulses. Ie we "see" images in our brain much the same way we "see" images on a tv. A tv shows us a picture by means of electrical impulses, but it doesn't create the pictures itself. They come from elsewhere.

 

Far as I'm concerned our bodies just carry "us" around, but it isn't "us". For all I know we might be like a computer using the "cloud" and our brains are just a receptor for "us" beyond this planet.

[Hummin]

Most of all, Im impressed by how sure people are when they think they have the answers on behalf of others. And thats also the most scary part. 

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO thought is something beyond reality shown to us BY electrical impulses in the brain, but not CREATED by the electrical impulses. Ie we "see" images in our brain much the same way we "see" images on a tv. A tv shows us a picture by means of electrical impulses, but it doesn't create the pictures itself. They come from elsewhere.

 

Far as I'm concerned our bodies just carry "us" around, but it isn't "us". For all I know we might be like a computer using the "cloud" and our brains are just a receptor for "us" beyond this planet.

Well, it's safe to say, i think, that modern technology is based on the observation and imitation of the natural world, so your comparison can be about right.

The acceleration of the technology in the last 100 years still leaves me astonished, and probably "we've seen nothing yet".

[Hummin]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO thought is something beyond reality shown to us BY electrical impulses in the brain, but not CREATED by the electrical impulses. Ie we "see" images in our brain much the same way we "see" images on a tv. A tv shows us a picture by means of electrical impulses, but it doesn't create the pictures itself. They come from elsewhere.

 

Far as I'm concerned our bodies just carry "us" around, but it isn't "us". For all I know we might be like a computer using the "cloud" and our brains are just a receptor for "us" beyond this planet.

Then it comes down to we are just some kind of software, especially the way some discribe consciousness and reality as well supernatural. And it might as well be true. 

[fusion58]

On 11/4/2022 at 5:37 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

What has theory got to do with faith? Either you have faith or you don't. If a theory could make one stop believing, one didn't have faith in the first place.

Actually, the speaker addresses that question within ~5 minutes of starting his lecture. Thanks for acknowledging you didn't actually watch the video.

[Pmbkk]

 

I have a pic' of me and John Paul II together in Rome when I was 14

 

No I don't believe in God - I was brought up a catholic with an Irish Father and catholic schooling

 

My father believed in God much more after he had a heart attack and then a stroke.

 

 

I do believe in treating people like you'd like to be treated - more of that and less religion would go a long way

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, fusion58 said:

Actually, the speaker addresses that question within ~5 minutes of starting his lecture. Thanks for acknowledging you didn't actually watch the video.

I almost never look at vdos or links given on this forum. Life is too short to be spending more of it on this forum than I need to.

In this case, I don't need anyone on some vdo to tell me what faith is or what to believe, but I'll have a look for 5 minutes now.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, fusion58 said:

Actually, the speaker addresses that question within ~5 minutes of starting his lecture. Thanks for acknowledging you didn't actually watch the video.

OK I gave it 7 minutes just to be sure and he didn't mention faith even once. Perhaps you regard "emergent" as meaning faith, but the examples he gave are not the full picture of faith as I live it. Yes, part of it, but not all.

As I expected, just another non believer trying to reduce God to a scientific theory, and that will never work, because faith comes from within, not imposed from without. We can't "learn" faith, and frankly, unless one has experienced faith, it's not possible to understand it, let alone reduce it to an equation.

 

Given I have no interest in listening to that for another 46 minutes, I'll pass on the rest of it

[mauGR1]

2 hours ago, Pmbkk said:

I do believe in treating people like you'd like to be treated - more of that and less religion would go a long way

 

I think that's the essence of religion. 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I think that's the essence of religion. 

Not all religions. The Aztecs liked to sacrifice people to the gods- not exactly user friendly.

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not all religions. The Aztecs liked to sacrifice people to the gods- not exactly user friendly.

I'm not going to find good reasons for human sacrifice, or even animal sacrifice, but actually all religions, starting with Christian religion, have been corrupted by evil ( or misguided) men with evil ( or misguided) purposes.

Probably the same happened to Aztec priests and religion. 

..but yes, it's my opinion that the goal of religion is, or should be, to bring harmony and justice to the life of humans.

[fusion58]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

OK I gave it 7 minutes just to be sure and he didn't mention faith even once. Perhaps you regard "emergent" as meaning faith, but the examples he gave are not the full picture of faith as I live it. Yes, part of it, but not all.

As I expected, just another non believer trying to reduce God to a scientific theory, and that will never work, because faith comes from within, not imposed from without. We can't "learn" faith, and frankly, unless one has experienced faith, it's not possible to understand it, let alone reduce it to an equation.

 

Given I have no interest in listening to that for another 46 minutes, I'll pass on the rest of it

I was referring specifically to your initial "what does theory have to do with faith?" question.

 

Professor Carroll addressed that question when he pointed out that, although not ALL claims made by theists can be reduced to the roles played by scientific theories, some of the claims made by theists DO play the roles of scientific theories and can be judged accordingly. The focus of the lecture is the latter category.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, fusion58 said:

I was referring specifically to your initial "what does theory have to do with faith?" question.

 

Professor Carroll addressed that question when he pointed out that, although not ALL claims made by theists can be reduced to the roles played by scientific theories, some of the claims made by theists DO play the roles of scientific theories and can be judged accordingly. The focus of the lecture is the latter category.

If he dealt with faith, I must have missed it.

Did you miss the bit in my post about how faith can't be reduced to an equation?

 

BTW, I disregard anyone making a living out of religion or what they claim to be faith. No one alive on planet earth actually knows what is on the other side of the great divide. It's like a blind person trying to understand why sunsets are wonderful. They can get a tiny bit of the reality, but, like everyone, will only actually know after they die.

[Hummin]

20 minutes ago, fusion58 said:

I was referring specifically to your initial "what does theory have to do with faith?" question.

 

Professor Carroll addressed that question when he pointed out that, although not ALL claims made by theists can be reduced to the roles played by scientific theories, some of the claims made by theists DO play the roles of scientific theories and can be judged accordingly. The focus of the lecture is the latter category.

Ignoring videos, for then commenting where the video hava point that's feel important, is like reading headlines and believe you know what the article is about.

 

Ignorance is a problem, especially when you think you have all the answers. 

 

I'm happy to acknowledge the more I know, and the more I understand,  the more I know I do not know or understand! 

 

YouTube is a good place to find information if you are willing to invest some time to wider your horizon. Being lazy and claim you are not willing to spend your limited valuable time, just to make that point, is pure laziness when you first reply to someone and have to make a point out of it! 

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No one alive on planet earth actually knows what is on the other side of the great divide. It's like a blind person trying to understand why sunsets are wonderful. They can get a tiny bit of the reality, but, like everyone, will only actually know after they die.

This is debatable, perhaps some of the folks who think that "soul" is just a music style, and deny the existence of soul, in fact they have no soul.

It seems logical that, after death, the soul leaves the body, and not all the souls have achieved an equal level of consciousness. 

Perhaps a beggar, after death, can navigate the spiritual worlds much better than one who has been a billionaire all his life.

Material attachments apparently play quite a role in the so called afterlife. 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

This is debatable, perhaps some of the folks who think that "soul" is just a music style, and deny the existence of soul, in fact they have no soul.

It seems logical that, after death, the soul leaves the body, and not all the souls have achieved an equal level of consciousness. 

Perhaps a beggar, after death, can navigate the spiritual worlds much better than one who has been a billionaire all his life.

Material attachments apparently play quite a role in the so called afterlife. 

 

As I understand it, a soul can be reluctant to pass over if they feel too attached to this existence ( leading to the presence of ghosts ), but that could be wrong.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Perhaps a beggar, after death, can navigate the spiritual worlds much better than one who has been a billionaire all his life.

Jesus had quite a bit to say about that.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, Hummin said:

Ignoring videos, for then commenting where the video hava point that's feel important, is like reading headlines and believe you know what the article is about.

 

Ignorance is a problem, especially when you think you have all the answers. 

 

I'm happy to acknowledge the more I know, and the more I understand,  the more I know I do not know or understand! 

 

YouTube is a good place to find information if you are willing to invest some time to wider your horizon. Being lazy and claim you are not willing to spend your limited valuable time, just to make that point, is pure laziness when you first reply to someone and have to make a point out of it! 

Looking at a few minutes of a U Tube vdo is not the same as being expected to watch nearly an hour of the expected anti religion/ faith lecture by someone that apparently didn't understand faith.

If they can't grip my interest in 7 minutes, why would I watch more of the same? Nothing to say to the faithful to change their minds.

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As I understand it, a soul can be reluctant to pass over if they feel too attached to this existence ( leading to the presence of ghosts ), but that could be wrong.

Yes, that's possible, I'd  guess, specially in the case of sudden, violent death ; in that case, one could find difficult to accept that the physical experience is over.. but i was referring to guys who strongly deny afterlife, and thus they may have no afterlife at all.

In most if not all the religious cultures in the world, the burial,  or cremation happens 3 days after death, so not to disturb a soul's transition towards the spiritual planes of existence.

 

 

[mauGR1]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Looking at a few minutes of a U Tube vdo is not the same as being expected to watch nearly an hour of the expected anti religion/ faith lecture by someone that apparently didn't understand faith.

If they can't grip my interest in 7 minutes, why would I watch more of the same? Nothing to say to the faithful to change their minds.

I also don't post or watch videos posted here, actually it's pretty sad that some people think of posting videos as a way to discuss a subject. 

I wonder if those people have some ideas on their own. 

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I also don't post or watch videos posted here, actually it's pretty sad that some people think of posting videos as a way to discuss a subject. 

I wonder if those people have some ideas on their own. 

That's quite interesting statement. Nobody have pure discoveries without some kind of inspiration or teaching, and claim you or your thoughts and thought processes is self made is either a bold statement or pure ignorance. Make a pick ????????

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, Hummin said:

That's quite interesting statement. Nobody have pure discoveries without some kind of inspiration or teaching, and claim you or your thoughts and thought processes is self made is either a bold statement or pure ignorance. Make a pick ????????

Where did i say that my discoveries are pure ?

Or that my thoughts are entirely self made, to use your words?

I am just trying to make some sense of my thoughts and thought processes, and i find useful to hear what other people think, regardless of their titles.

Of course i have my influences, or preferences, specially in the words of spiritual masters, some famous and others almost unknown. 

Sometimes inspirations come from unexpected directions too. The universe is constantly giving us knowledge, if we want to hear.

If you want to think this is ignorant or bold, that's your choice and not my business, and of course i respect your choices. 

 

[Hummin]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Where did i say that my discoveries are pure ?

Or that my thoughts are entirely self made, to use your words?

I am just trying to make some sense of my thoughts and thought processes, and i find useful to hear what other people think, regardless of their titles.

Of course i have my influences, or preferences, specially in the words of spiritual masters, some famous and others almost unknown. 

Sometimes inspirations come from unexpected directions too. The universe is constantly giving us knowledge, if we want to hear.

If you want to think this is ignorant or bold, that's your choice and not my business, and of course i respect your choices. 

 

What I think about your statement in previous post, is you underestimate other people and ridiculous them for using sources when posting to make a statement, especially YouTube. I will agree just serving a link, is a bit lazy, but if the content is good, it sometimes is not necessary to add anything.

 

My original statement was about making a comment to someone without even bothering checking first is like reading the headlines and make up your mind what the real story is. Lazy and ignorant. Better not to comment at all. 

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

What I think about your statement in previous post, is you underestimate other people and ridiculous them for using sources when posting to make a statement, especially YouTube. I will agree just serving a link, is a bit lazy, but if the content is good, it sometimes is not necessary to add anything.

 

My original statement was about making a comment to someone without even bothering checking first is like reading the headlines and make up your mind what the real story is. Lazy and ignorant. Better not to comment at all. 

Ok, thanks for the explanation.

It's just my opinion that i prefer to read the forumer's thoughts rather than watching or posting videos.

Just imagine if everyone on this forum starts posting videos from internet instead of expressing clear opinions, it would become a meaningless exercise.

Hope you understand my point, and of course it's your choice to agree or disagree. 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Hummin said:

What I think about your statement in previous post, is you underestimate other people and ridiculous them for using sources when posting to make a statement, especially YouTube. I will agree just serving a link, is a bit lazy, but if the content is good, it sometimes is not necessary to add anything.

 

My original statement was about making a comment to someone without even bothering checking first is like reading the headlines and make up your mind what the real story is. Lazy and ignorant. Better not to comment at all. 

Religion or faith is an individual experience. It's not about what other people think.

I've no interest in posters using other people's views to say God isn't real. Say what you think and I'll read it.

[Hummin]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Religion or faith is an individual experience. It's not about what other people think.

I've no interest in posters using other people's views to say God isn't real. Say what you think and I'll read it.

You to missed my point totally, byt seperate from that I agree in your post.

 

Same for me when someone state the earth is flat, and present a one hour video to prove it. I would not see it, but out of curiosity I have actually seen a few shorter ones, as well from moon landing deniers.

 

I'm more interested to learn why they believe in something that's to me obviously not true, and same goes for other personal beliefs. I'm curious, very curious why they believe the way they do. 

 

 

[mauGR1]

25 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I'm more interested to learn why they believe in something that's to me obviously not true, and same goes for other personal beliefs. I'm curious, very curious why they believe the way they do. 

That's similar to my way of thinking, however the thought-patterns between the masses and the less significant individual soul who has the ability to see behind the smoke screens are very different.

Someone said that the masses can be compared to a stupid,  and sometimes crazy huge animal.

Obviously the earth is not flat, but I'm quite sure that my ideas on that funny theory are very different compared to yours ????

[Hummin]

18 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

That's similar to my way of thinking, however the thought-patterns between the masses and the less significant individual soul who has the ability to see behind the smoke screens are very different.

Someone said that the masses can be compared to a stupid,  and sometimes crazy huge animal.

Obviously the earth is not flat, but I'm quite sure that my ideas on that funny theory are very different compared to yours ????

Still we are influenced by theories and patterns we most likely learn and experience, and Im very aware of mass influence as mass illusions, as well my own illusions I can create if I work with my mind and want it to be true. 
 

Survival mode is often a grip on some kind of an illusion to hold on to, be it temporarily or it becomes a lifelong illusion. People who never question the rules or their beliefs have their tools when they meet challenges, but other people who question their beliefs, the system, and are not rooted when <deleted> hit the fan, they are more likely to create their own Illusions to survive, to hold on to, just to have the feeling of sense and an explanation why they are hit so hard. 
 

In a perfect world, we had all the answers, and we worked for the same goals, peace, wealth, love, sustainability without the devil to intervene over and over again and again. 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Still we are influenced by theories and patterns we most likely learn and experience, and Im very aware of mass influence as mass illusions, as well my own illusions I can create if I work with my mind and want it to be true. 
 

Survival mode is often a grip on some kind of an illusion to hold on to, be it temporarily or it becomes a lifelong illusion. People who never question the rules or their beliefs have their tools when they meet challenges, but other people who question their beliefs, the system, and are not rooted when <deleted> hit the fan, they are more likely to create their own Illusions to survive, to hold on to, just to have the feeling of sense and an explanation why they are hit so hard. 
 

In a perfect world, we had all the answers, and we worked for the same goals, peace, wealth, love, sustainability without the devil to intervene over and over again and again. 

Oh, do you believe in the devil ?

I am a bit surprised now ????