Do you believe in God and why

[bert bloggs]

Wow ,192,000 views ,keep going boys , great thread .

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

Wow ,192,000 views ,keep going boys , great thread .

I doubt Ivor thought his thread would carry on so long or get so much attention. While many do not believe, they certainly have a lot to say about it.

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those benefits are available to all that live according to the rules. Money or power won't give an advantage.

Choose not to adhere to the rules don't get the benefits. Your choice.

What i don't understand about some of the posters on here is that they become outraged when they think the "benefits" of religion are only for the religious, yet profess to not believe that "God" exists, so ergo the benefits can also not exist. Seems they want the benefits without qualifying by believing and following the rules.

[ivor bigun]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt Ivor thought his thread would carry on so long or get so much attention. While many do not believe, they certainly have a lot to say about it.

You can say that again ,i dont post threads very often ,most just last three or four pages ,but i must admit i am amazed at the number of replies , i was even nominated for a Potty award,dont know if i am still in the running , but you can vote for me if you like????

[canuckamuck]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What i don't understand about some of the posters on here is that they become outraged when they think the "benefits" of religion are only for the religious, yet profess to not believe that "God" exists, so ergo the benefits can also not exist. Seems they want the benefits without qualifying by believing and following the rules.

If I can't get the imaginary benefits, nobody is going to have em.

Edited December 18, 2019 by canuckamuck

[Tagged]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

What i don't understand about some of the posters on here is that they become outraged when they think the "benefits" of religion are only for the religious, yet profess to not believe that "God" exists, so ergo the benefits can also not exist. Seems they want the benefits without qualifying by believing and following the rules.

If you want to misunderstand, you are welcome. What is my outrage, is the false promisses of benefits that they claim you will have if you believe. 

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, Tagged said:

If you want to misunderstand, you are welcome. What is my outrage, is the false promisses of benefits that they claim you will have if you believe. 

Who are "they" ? Why would you be outraged ?

If you you think "they" are lying to you, just carry on with your life, stop worrying and be happy ????

Edited December 18, 2019 by mauGR1

[Tagged]

12 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Who are "they" ? Why would you be outraged ?

If you you think "they" are lying to you, just carry on with your life, stop worrying and be happy ????

Ai, I think you should lay off the keyboard for awhile mauGR1 ???? 

 

Im done with my outcries and outraging, Im done with it, and done with my searching for the truth, and live happily as a non believer, who expect to die one day, and leave nothing behind, and will not arrive in either a worse place or better. I will be dead. Finale. Actually that gives me quite a peace in mind. However I can not deny there can be more, because I do not know, same as everybody else do not know. They assuming and believing something they very much would like to share with others, and people tune their life to fit in, sacrify their life to be in right place for the future promisses, sacrify their time, and their money. Often poor people sacrify more than anyone else to reach this promissed land, next life nirwana or the benefits. All this for power of the churches, temples, gurus, giving them wealth and power to actually control peoples choices in politics, wars womans rights and more. 

 

If you are not willing to understand how much it is influence your daily life, well, I would say you turn the blind eye to it, and accept it. 

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Ai, I think you should lay off the keyboard for awhile mauGR1 ???? 

 

Im done with my outcries and outraging, Im done with it, and done with my searching for the truth, and live happily as a non believer, who expect to die one day, and leave nothing behind, and will not arrive in either a worse place or better. I will be dead. Finale. Actually that gives me quite a peace in mind. However I can not deny there can be more, because I do not know, same as everybody else do not know. They assuming and believing something they very much would like to share with others, and people tune their life to fit in, sacrify their life to be in right place for the future promisses, sacrify their time, and their money. Often poor people sacrify more than anyone else to reach this promissed land, next life nirwana or the benefits. All this for power of the churches, temples, gurus, giving them wealth and power to actually control peoples choices in politics, wars womans rights and more. 

 

If you are not willing to understand how much it is influence your daily life, well, I would say you turn the blind eye to it, and accept it. 

Actually, i agree a lot with what you say, and in my view you are much more Christian than others.

I also agree that i should stop posting on this thread, as people don't understand a lot of what i have to say.

Peace brother ????

 

[AsianAtHeart]

14 hours ago, Tagged said:

If you want to misunderstand, you are welcome. What is my outrage, is the false promisses of benefits that they claim you will have if you believe. 

One must keep in mind that because "faith without works is dead" (James 2:17), and "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.  For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord." (James 1:6-7), the promises are conditional upon faithful obedience to God's commandments and upon a firm, doubtless reliance upon God.  Those who doubt or those who disobey are not promised anything.  This is the reason so many come to think that the promises of God are meritless.  But God never promised to answer faithless petitions.  "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6)

[yodsak]

[thaibeachlovers]

23 minutes ago, yodsak said:

and? A load of blokes saying they don't believe in god doesn't prove anything.

Hugh Lauri. Is that the actor? He doesn't know any more about it than anyone else, and no one knows anything about "God". Human science is too primitive to prove the existence or otherwise of "God". All anyone has is opinion.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[AsianAtHeart]

3 minutes ago, yodsak said:

We are never asked to believe without evidence.  "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen." (Hebrews 11:1).  But, perhaps you, never having seen things like x-rays, gravity, hate, love, air, etc. would refuse to believe they exist on the principle of "seeing is believing."

 

Faith is not merely foolish imagination.

 

I was once driving at about 70 MPH (the speed limit) on a freeway, not realizing that I was being anesthetized by carbon monoxide passing through a hole in the firewall between me and the car's engine.  I just thought I was getting sleepy, and determined to exit at the next crossroad, about four miles away.  I didn't make it.  I "woke up" (groggily) when the car hit the gravel on the median side of the road, and, in my drugged-like state of mind, I jerked the wheel to return to my lane.  Of course, I had to jerk it again upon reaching the lane so as not to leave the roadway on that side.  By this time, beginning to realize what was going on, I knew that as I headed to the median again there would be no possibility of correcting my course safely.  I had time only to utter the words "God help me!"  Into the median I went.

 

It was January.  The outside temperatures had been well under freezing for over a week.  The ground should have been frozen solid.  But, praise God, the wheels of the car, instead, sunk into soft sand, slowing my momentum.  By the time the car overturned I was going less than 5 MPH.  I walked away unscathed--with not so much as a scratch.  The police officer who first arrived at the scene asked me a number of questions, including whether or not I had been partying the night before (the accident was around 5 p.m.), to which I honestly replied "no, I don't party, and I have never drunk alcohol in my life."  I thought at the time I may have become sleepy due to some recent medical treatments--I didn't think or know about the carbon monoxide until later.  The officer could have ticketed me, but didn't.

 

I always pray for God's protection, believing that God hears and answers my prayers, before traveling.  The next time I was to be in a rollover accident (when someone else was driving), I got a few scratches on my back, nothing more--I hadn't even been wearing a seatbelt.  God is real.  As the Bible says "Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good." (Psalm 34:8).  If you haven't tasted for yourself, don't try to explain to someone else what something doesn't taste like.  You will only make yourself look ignorant.

[Sunmaster]

Despite of what some here might think, I consider myself a practical and rational person. 

If a truth works for me and my belief system, then I will integrate it regardless if it's Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Shamanistic or whatever.
Just because I can see the value in Jesus' compassion, doesn't mean I have to swallow the inedible chunks of the bible.
Just because I appreciate the vast wisdom in Hinduism and Buddhism, doesn't mean I have to pray to millions of gods.
Just because I like the pragmatic approach of the shamans to their relationship with nature, doesn't mean I want to give up my lifestyle and go live in the jungle.

Just because I value science for giving us many advances in technology and understanding of the material world, doesn't mean I expect to explain everything through its lens.

 

I like to think that every approach at explaining Reality has some value and my (our?) duty is to find it, sieve it out from the unnecessary ballast that keeps it hidden at first.

In this sense, I could never be satisfied with 'faith' alone, because in my mind it implies a passive acceptance of somebody else' truth. I'd rather be atheist and a seeker than a believer on faith alone.

[CMNightRider]

Everyone, and I mean everyone will stand before Jesus Christ when they die.  One can quote what some so called important person may have to say about the Bible not being the word of God or that Jesus dying on the cross, and being risen from the dead three days later is some sort of fairy tale but this is a fact of life.  You have until you take your last breath to figure this out, after that it is a done deal.  

[sirineou]

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Despite of what some here might think, I consider myself a practical and rational person. 

Don't we all?

13 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

If a truth works for me and my belief system, then I will integrate it regardless if it's Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Shamanistic or whatever.
Just because I can see the value in Jesus' compassion, doesn't mean I have to swallow the inedible chunks of the bible.
Just because I appreciate the vast wisdom in Hinduism and Buddhism, doesn't mean I have to pray to millions of gods.
Just because I like the pragmatic approach of the shamans to their relationship with nature, doesn't mean I want to give up my lifestyle and go live in the jungle.

 

 

 

I like to think that every approach at explaining Reality has some value and my (our?) duty is to find it, sieve it out from the unnecessary ballast that keeps it hidden at first.

In this sense, I could never be satisfied with 'faith' alone, because in my mind it implies a passive acceptance of somebody else' truth. I'd rather be atheist and a seeker than a believer on faith alone.

I was prepared to give you a like for the above until I got to:

"Just because I value science for giving us many advances in technology and understanding of the material world, doesn't mean I expect to explain everything through its lens. "

Unless you don't understand what science means, there is no other lens to explain anything through.           everything else is just imagination.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with imajination. Before any advances occur they have to be imagined first but until they are verified through the scientific process they are simply products of the imagination. 

I believe that's where you are. You are imagining a possibility (more power to you. who knows you could be right)  and you put it in practice,( it seems to be working for you , which is great)  but until you can verify the process  through scientific analysis it is not replicable and of little use to anyone else.   

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

Don't we all?

I was prepared to give you a like for the above until I got to:

"Just because I value science for giving us many advances in technology and understanding of the material world, doesn't mean I expect to explain everything through its lens. "

Unless you don't understand what science means, there is no other lens to explain anything through.           everything else is just imagination.

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with imajination. Before any advances occur they have to be imagined first but until they are verified through the scientific process they are simply products of the imagination. 

I believe that's where you are. You are imagining a possibility (more power to you. who knows you could be right)  and you put it in practice,( it seems to be working for you , which is great)  but until you can verify the process  through scientific analysis it is not replicable and of little use to anyone else.   

I think I know what science means, and I also think you confuse 'faith' with 'imagination'.

 

Most importantly though, I think your reasoning is flawed. According to your theory, things are "simply products of our imagination" until they've been "verified through the scientific process".

Where were viruses until they were discovered? Gamma rays, black holes, protons and electrons? Did they just spring into existence as soon as they were discovered by the scientific process, or did they exist even prior to that?
The same way, other "things" or realities can (and do) exist right now, regardless if you believe in them or not, regardless if science has verified them or not.

It's quite patronizing to say "My BS (belief system) is based on scientific fact, while yours is imagination at best. But OK if that works for you."
What it really says is "I base my BS exclusively on what science can proof. Other than that I have no idea". At least that would be honest and truly respectful.

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Sunmaster

[Tagged]

5 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

One must keep in mind that because "faith without works is dead" (James 2:17), and "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.  For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord." (James 1:6-7), the promises are conditional upon faithful obedience to God's commandments and upon a firm, doubtless reliance upon God.  Those who doubt or those who disobey are not promised anything.  This is the reason so many come to think that the promises of God are meritless.  But God never promised to answer faithless petitions.  "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6)

To easy to just quote parts of the bible without understanding where it comes from, who wrote it for what purpose. 

 

As long it gives you peace of mind, and works for you, then good for you . 

[canuckamuck]

4 minutes ago, Tagged said:

To easy to just quote parts of the bible without understanding where it comes from, who wrote it for what purpose. 

 

As long it gives you peace of mind, and works for you, then good for you . 

That was an excellent selection of quotes, apropos to his/her point and taken form multiple books. I am certain that the @AsianAtHeart knows the context of what was quoted. 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sunmaster said:

I think I know what science means, and I also think you confuse 'faith' with 'imagination'.

 if something is not introduced to your consciousness through evidence how else can it be introduced other than imagination? 

5 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Where were viruses until they were discovered? Gamma rays, black holes, protons and electrons? Did they just spring into existence as soon as they were discovered by the scientific process, or did they exist even prior to that?

The were undiscovered things, until someone imagined them and then confirmed their existence via the scientific method,

14 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The same way, other "things" or realities can (and do) exist right now, regardless if you believe in them or not, regardless if science has verified them or not.

Just because some things exist , it does not mean that everything exists. they might or they might not, if you think they do exist conduct scientific experiments to discover them and provide evidence  , until such time I would have to take your word.

 

18 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

It's quite patronizing to say "my BS (belief system) is based on scientific truth, while yours is imagination at best. But OK if that works for you."
 

I have no belief system, I only have an evidence based system . 

21 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I base my BS sorely on what science can proof. Other than that I have no idea". At least that would be honest and truly respectful.

I thought that's what i said. but it is not a belief based system it is an evidence based system

[Tagged]

29 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

That was an excellent selection of quotes, apropos to his/her point and taken form multiple books. I am certain that the @AsianAtHeart knows the context of what was quoted. 

You are right, it is a perfect sample from the books in the bible, and it shows my understanding of it perfectly, and why I can not accept such a belief. 

 

It is against everything I have understood and learned being a good human being. Solely commit to such a strong belief system and a unfair one as well. 

 

@AsianAtHeart could have stated some of his personal opinions on the matter, made it easier for me to understand what he ment by posting it. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Tagged

[Sunmaster]

A belief system is an ideology or set of principles that helps us to interpret our everyday reality. This could be in the form of religion, political affiliation, philosophy, or spirituality, among many other things. These beliefs are shaped and influenced by a number of different factors.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even someone who only takes material science as the sole truth supplier has to rely on 'faith' that what scientists say is actually true. Or have you verified the existence of viruses by yourself? Have you calculated the trajectories of the planets by yourself? I doubt it. You believe and assume that what scientists tell you corresponds to the truth, because it can be verified by others and the findings can be replicated.
Hence, you do have a belief system just like everyone else, and like everyone else your BS is made up from data you got from others that you deem trustworthy.

 

Spiritual science works the same way, but instead of mapping the outer/material world, it maps the inner/immaterial world. Anyone who has meditated for a while knows that there are blockages and crossroads that are common to everyone. The more advanced people will be able to guide and direct those who struggle, because they've been there before.
A spiritual teacher doesn't become such because he has a long grey beard and wears an orange cloth.

They dedicate their lives to uncover the truth within, which is very different from what you call imagination. 
 

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

The were undiscovered things, until someone imagined them and then confirmed their existence via the scientific method,

Yes, they were undiscovered by science, but they existed regardless of someone's imagination, of science or your believe in them.

 

6 hours ago, sirineou said:

Just because some things exist , it does not mean that everything exists.

Correct. We're not talking about flying pigs in red boots here. We're talking about a major component in the human condition. By your own admission, you said you don't believe in it, nor have you practiced it, nor have you studied it, so I don't blame you for thinking they are equally improbable. 
A little digging though would show you that there's no smoke without fire.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Sunmaster

[herwin1234]

At best its a fairytale designed to make naieve people be good people and keep them from being bad.

More realisticly its a bunch of nonsense to opres people and make them dumb and submissive and meak.

[sirineou]

8 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

A belief system is an ideology or set of principles that helps us to interpret our everyday reality. This could be in the form of religion, political affiliation, philosophy, or spirituality, among many other things. These beliefs are shaped and influenced by a number of different factors.

Yes indeed influenced by many factors,but the only factor that substantiate them is evidence.

9 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Even someone who only takes material science as the sole truth supplier has to rely on 'faith' that what scientists say is actually true.

No , not at all, I rely on pier review and evidence supplied to substantiate the claim.

12 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Hence, you do have a belief system just like everyone else, and like everyone else your BS is made up from data you got from others that you deem trustworthy.

as i said "I have an evidence based belief system" the operative word being evidence

 

 

Got to go now. things to do

it was a pleasure talking with you.

[yodsak]

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

That was an excellent selection of quotes, apropos to his/her point and taken form multiple books. I am certain that the @AsianAtHeart knows the context of what was quoted. 

   @canuckamuck & @Tagged Yes, in fact, I am a student of both Hebrew and Greek, and have done considerable work with Bible translation.  I wish I knew more.  Every time I read the same passage again, I seem to see something new in it that I had not noticed before.  Unfortunately, I have only memorized about 3-5% of the Bible (the Bible has about 31,102 verses), but I have read it many times and am generally familiar with its truths.  I would feel comfortable saying I'm aware of the context of the verses I quoted.

[Tagged]

20 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

   @canuckamuck & @Tagged Yes, in fact, I am a student of both Hebrew and Greek, and have done considerable work with Bible translation.  I wish I knew more.  Every time I read the same passage again, I seem to see something new in it that I had not noticed before.  Unfortunately, I have only memorized about 3-5% of the Bible (the Bible has about 31,102 verses), but I have read it many times and am generally familiar with its truths.  I would feel comfortable saying I'm aware of the context of the verses I quoted.

I have tried to finish the bible 3 times, and every attempt I get further in the books, I get so provoked, and need to quit. Some parts i lovely, some parts is racist, some parts is sexists, some parts is cruel and violent devastating to read, and also very provoking. Thats mye experience

 

I forgot to mention there is alot of common sence to it as well, and maybe more for the time being written, but also liferules in general sence, but that common sence, really do not need an judging god to understand to follow or respect. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Tagged

[Sunmaster]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

7 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

A belief system is an ideology or set of principles that helps us to interpret our everyday reality. This could be in the form of religion, political affiliation, philosophy, or spirituality, among many other things. These beliefs are shaped and influenced by a number of different factors.

Yes indeed influenced by many factors,but the only factor that substantiate them is evidence.

Evidence of what?

Everyone will find some sort of evidence in what he believes is the truth.
Here is the full definition of believe systems:
A belief system is an ideology or set of principles that helps us to interpret our everyday reality. This could be in the form of religion, political affiliation, philosophy, or spirituality, among many other things. These beliefs are shaped and influenced by a number of different factors. Our knowledge on a certain topic, the way we were raised, and even peer pressure from others can help to create and even change our belief systems. The convictions that come from these systems are a way for us to make sense of the world around us and to define our role within it.

 

I think it's very dangerous to think that anyone who doesn't take science as the only gospel is some sort of sheep, incapable of thinking by himself and living under the illusion of imaginary concepts. Dangerous because they block any way to gather new information and live in a rigid cage of their own making. This concerns everyone, not just materialists.

 

Again, your BS differs from other BSs only in the fact that you choose a narrow portion of the human knowledge (science) because that's what you feel comfortable with, it's easier to 'digest' and doesn't require you to do any further soul searching. Fair enough, it's your choice and there's really nothing wrong with it. 
BUT, to say that a BS can be legit ONLY if there is (scientific) evidence to back it up, is simply wrong.

 

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

7 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

A belief system is an ideology or set of principles that helps us to interpret our everyday reality. This could be in the form of religion, political affiliation, philosophy, or spirituality, among many other things. These beliefs are shaped and influenced by a number of different factors.

Yes indeed influenced by many factors,but the only factor that substantiate them is evidence.

Spiritual science is built on peer review as well, otherwise anyone could claim to have obtained enlightenment or be a spiritual teacher. That is not the case though. Gurus need to be the living proof of certain conditions such as boundless compassion and love for all living beings, deep wisdom and be free from attachments. 

[Skeptic7]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

I was prepared to give you a like for the above until I got to:

Me too. 

[Elad]

10 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Where were viruses until they were discovered? Gamma rays, black holes, protons and electrons? Did they just spring into existence as soon as they were discovered by the scientific process, or did they exist even prior to that?

Black holes, electrons and many of the known elementary particles were predicted by theoretical physicists years before they were discovered. In the 1960's Peter Higgs theorised a boson that gave all particles their mass, then in 2012 the experimentalist at cern discovered it, and named it the 'Higgs Boson', some refer to it as the 'God particle' but Peter Higgs (an atheist) hated the name.

 

Some scientific discoveries come as a surprise like 'radio waves', however, when radio waves were discovered the didn't call them radio waves because there weren't any radios back then.  ????