Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Maybe....I was thinking out loud, so to speak.
In my case (and I don't think I'm the only one), I didn't believe in any higher power, so I don't regard it as essential. 

Fair enough, and myself i was not necessarily referring to a belief in a higher power, but more to belief in general. 

But, although i felt that equating "belief" to a stepping stone was a bit unfair, I could understand, beyond the meaning of the single words, the logic of your thoughts. Sorry for nitpicking ????

[Neeranam]

God is great! 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The anxiety about death and the uncertainty of one's place in the world fall away, giving you a peace of mind unlike you ever experienced before.

Only part right IMO. I am ready to pass over, but dread the means by which I pass over. I have no wish to die a lingering death in some grotty rest home or screaming with cancer. Given the politicians won't give us the painfree way on demand it may have to be some less satisfactory way and hope no one finds me before I've gone.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Tagged said:

How can so many be wrong? 

Who says they are? Is that your opinion?

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Who says they are? Is that your opinion?

I think you should enjoy your coffe and read one more time ???? 

[Tagged]

Just now, Tagged said:

I think you should enjoy your coffe and read one more time ???? 

Good morning btw, 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Tagged said:

I think you should enjoy your coffe and read one more time ???? 

Too early for coffee, but not long till my cup of tea time. Sadly don't have any decent biscuits to go with it, so has to be cherry cake.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Good morning btw, 

Thunder and persisting down. I was out in the rain trying to stop my car park washing away. Worse to come apparently.

However, good morning to yourself.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thunder and persisting down. I was out in the rain trying to stop my car park washing away. Worse to come apparently.

However, good morning to yourself.

Early morning here by the sea.

The intermittent strong wind woke me up twice in the night.

The neighborhood is a mess of leaves, assorted garbage and some roof tiles, luckily not mine.

How not to think that all those weather phenomena are not controlled by the will of some self-conscious entities, which are active on this and other realms ?

Were the ancient completely wrong in worshipping the elements of nature ? And is modern science right in giving an abstract character to the stars, the planets, the oceans ?

I think it's fair to say that the so-called reality has more dimensions than we can imagine.

To think that our planet has a sort of ego may be a stretch of imagination, but to deny that possibility is even more absurd.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Early morning here by the sea.

The intermittent strong wind woke me up twice in the night.

The neighborhood is a mess of leaves, assorted garbage and some roof tiles, luckily not mine.

How not to think that all those weather phenomena are not controlled by the will of some self-conscious entities, which are active on this and other realms ?

Were the ancient completely wrong in worshipping the elements of nature ? And is modern science right in giving an abstract character to the stars, the planets, the oceans ?

I think it's fair to say that the so-called reality has more dimensions than we can imagine.

To think that our planet has a sort of ego may be a stretch of imagination, but to deny that possibility is even more absurd.

Nah, the ancients were just ignorant and didn't understand how weather is made. That's one area I respect science. They got the weather today right.

On the good side, my blood blisters were worth it as my car park is still there.

 

The planet is Gaia, so of course, IMO, has an ego ( of sorts ). I'd expect it to be trying to mitigate the effects of too many people on the planet surface.

[Sunmaster]

If anyone is interested in learning the mechanics behind Sri Ramana's self-enquiry, I found this excellent explanation on Quora.
 

-----------------------------------------------

 

Sri Ramana Maharshi’s method of Self-Enquiry is the Direct path to Self-realization. Our nature is concealed by thoughts, so as long as thoughts seem to appear within our experience we cannot abide as our actual nature. A lot of other paths use the mind to still the mind but the direct path is to cut out the mind directly, and this is why it is called the Direct path.

 

Consciousnesses is like a pond that seems to be still, but the water is actually always in motion. However, because it is so seamless it seems to be in stillness. Now, when we place an object into the the water, the object causes a resistance to the motion of the water and the object creates ripples or waves. These ripples are thoughts, they are consciousness in activity or... the water in an appearance of activity or motion. You now have two states, a state that appears to be in activity, and a state that appears to be in stillness. This is the dual state of Awareness and mind. To return to the original seamless state of is-ness (of non-duality), we have to remove the activity of thoughts, and the direct way to do this is to remove the object which is causing the dual nature and the appearance of the ripples or thoughts.

 

This object is the I-thought or ego. Now, because there is no object outside of the pond or outside of consciousness to be put into the pond or consciousness, the object can only be a mirage and to remove it, you only need to realize that it’s a mirage and there is actually no object. When this is realized, the object just becomes an image, consciousness no longer associates it as an object, but rather just as an appearance or image, it can now return to it’s natural flow.

 

The I-thought is the combination of Awareness + thought, the combination of the two is felt as the feeling of I. Thoughts come from a “box” of attachments that you hold like memory. They are like impression of past events that are strung together to create the persona you call the individual. When awareness focuses on this “box” it causes thoughts to arise. When you focus on this feeling of I, you will notice that a thought arises, and this thought is yourself as “I am the body”. This I is the thinker, it is a thought, but also a thinker of other thoughts. Whenever your awareness is directly experiencing something, this I sense attaches itself to the experience afterwards and creates a thought about it. When you eat a burger, the thought of, “I am eating a burger”, comes after the experience. However, it’s quite subtle. This I takes credit for the action, and the experience. But in reality it actually doesn’t experience anything because it comes after the experience as a thought, and you experience this as "thinking". All this I does, is organize the information of this experience with those attachments in the box and compare them, then it creates thoughts about it.

 

Most people who start Self-Enquiry identify with the Ego. The point of Self-Enquiry is to cut out the Ego, but the Ego can’t remove itself directly. So, what Self-Enquiry is trying to do is to trick it to investigate itself, which causes it to realize that it doesn’t exist as what it thought itself to be.

A popular analogy is that of the Rope and the Snake, however I have changed it a little. The snake is a misidentification of the rope in the darkness of ignorance. The only way to know that it is a rope is to investigate it closely by reaching out and touching it, feel it and you’ll realize that as you feel it it doesn’t feel anything like a snake, but it feels more like a rope. If the snake was to feel itself as the root of I, it would notice that what it thinks this I is, isn’t what it thought it was. Because the rope never bothered to turn back at itself to investigate or “feel” itself, it went around believing that it was a snake.

Self-Enquiry is to have the mind turn on itself to investigate it self.

 

The question "Who am I?" causes the mind to abide in its place of “I” to prevent it from creating thoughts and chasing them, but the question is also the Inquiry. If you are not this I, who are you actually?

Start off with searching for the feeling of I. Close your eyes and focus on “I am”. It can feel like a presence in you chest, ...it’s the feeling of presence of yourself as you are. You want to hold onto this feeling for as long as you can. While you hold onto this feeling you only get the thought of I, however, the mind will start to want to wander and create thoughts. When a thought arises, your awareness will want to go after the thought to engage with it. To prevent this engagement you ask, “To Whom do these thoughts arise to”, and you answer to yourself, “To me”. which directs awareness back to the feeling of “I”. Once you are back to the feeling of “I”, ask yourself “Who am I?”. When you ask this question it causes the mind to go back to it source. Now, there is nowhere to go back to, because you are always as you are, only that you misidentify yourself. The question “Who am I” is actually the inquiry or investigation, but it’s not an intellectual investigation. It is like a chisel that chisels away at the feeling of “I” until the I is destroyed. Whenever you ask ”Who am I” it causes you to feel past the sense of I that you are holding on to, and when doing so the idea of this I starts to weaken, and at this point you surrender as the mind can’t go any further. In this silence, the next stage is done by “The Self”. Because both you and The Self are one and the same thing, this stage is a kind of Self-remembrance. As the I-thought weakens due to the inquiry, you surrender and immerse yourself in a state of silence, the nature of silence will slowly emerge to reveal it’s actual nature. It is like holding onto the snake and feeling it for for so long that the idea of it being a snake fades, and you start to remember that what you are holding onto is actually a rope. You’ve always known what a rope feels like, but because you focused on thoughts, and never bother to really feel the rope, you pranced around pretending it was a snake, so you misidentified the object in your hand. It’s just like The Self, you are always aware of your true nature, but you are busy projecting out wards towards object and thoughts that you misplace the feeling of yourself for that of thoughts.

The question is not a mantra. It is only used to help abide in the sense of I, as well as help you feel past this I to realize that it isn’t actually there.

You are holding tightly to an object that you think you have in your hand, because your hand is compressed it feels like there is an object there. This is the Sense of I. As you practice Self-Enquiry, what you think is an object in your hand is just your hand being compressed, there was no object there it was just your hand all along. This is the same for awareness, the feeling of I is awareness being compressed to a thought, and this thought is felt as I, when abiding in this I it helps you focus your awareness on it. Just like you use your hand to feel around for the object and all you feel is your own hand. Once you recognize that it is just your hand you let go, and the tension is no longer there and your hand will want to go back to it’s natural state. When you are aware that there is only awareness and no I, and the I was just attachments that don’t exist, you surrender and let go of the attachments and just be, your awareness will want to go to it’s natural state.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sunmaster

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Consciousnesses is like a pond that seems to be still, but the water is actually always in motion. However, because it is so seamless it seems to be in stillness.

Thanks for that loooooong post.

 

While I am not going to get into the substance of what you wrote the part I quoted reminded me of one awesome glimpse I had of the creator's wonder.

I was living in Lamphun and went down to the river where there was a weir. It was not long after a lot of rain and the water was flowing over the weir so smoothly, as if it were glass ( like your pond that seems still ). It was only when it reached the water below the weir that I could see the power of it in the maelstrom of whirlpools. Had anyone fallen in they would have been pulverised to death.

It was so awesome that I stayed there for about half an hour just looking at it.

 

IMO God is like that. God is behind the calm face that nature shows us, and can be overlooked so easily, but the power of God is there nevertheless if one knows where to look.

 

The next week after all the water from the storm had gone downstream the weir was back to it's rather insignificant flow.

 

????

Edited November 10, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[VincentRJ]

12 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

The question "Who am I?" causes the mind to abide in its place of “I” to prevent it from creating thoughts and chasing them, but the question is also the Inquiry. If you are not this I, who are you actually?

Sunmaster,
Your long and detailed post reminds me of an amusing story I came across some years ago. A man who considered himself to be a very important person, such as a celebrity or politician, had been queuing for a long time at the airport, waiting to go through customs and the baggage check point. 

 

He got fed up with waiting so long and felt he should get preferential treatment because he was so important. So he went to the airline receptionist counter and demanded that he should be processed quickly so he could relax in the VIP lounge.

 

The receptionist said, "Sorry! Sir, but you will have to return to the queue. Everyone has to go through the same process." The 'important person' loudly replied with the rhetorical question, "Do you know who I am?"

 

The receptionist immediately picked up the microphone attached to the Loudspeaker, and shouted, "Ladies and gentlemen, there is a man at my counter who doesn't know who he is. If anyone thinks they might be able to identify him, please come to the airline counter quickly." ????

[meechai]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:14 AM, Sunmaster said:

The question "Who am I?" causes the mind to abide in its place of “I” to prevent it from creating thoughts and chasing them, but the question is also the Inquiry. If you are not this I, who are you actually?

 

 

Yes I remember well a course I was in back in the 70's . At the start of the 9 month course that was the question

Who am I?

What am I?

Why am I?

 

It was interesting to see where we were after 9 months & how our answers differed ????

 

That aside & as I'm sure you know the term "I am" has many interesting instances/meanings in religions/history etc

 

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, meechai said:

That aside & as I'm sure you know the term "I am" has many interesting instances/meanings in religions/history etc

 

Can you give some examples?

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, meechai said:

 

 

Yes I remember well a course I was in back in the 70's . At the start of the 9 month course that was the question

Who am I?

What am I?

Why am I?

 

It was interesting to see where we were after 9 months & how our answers differed ????

 

That aside & as I'm sure you know the term "I am" has many interesting instances/meanings in religions/history etc

 

Would that not depend on the context? Asking who am I can be physical, mental or spiritual.

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Would that not depend on the context? Asking who am I can be physical, mental or spiritual.

That's exactly to point of asking that question. 
The goal is to go from the physical identification (I am this body; I experience the world through my senses), through the mental identification (I think therefore I am) to the root of it all (I am [= The Self])

[meechai]

18 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Can you give some examples?

Yes .... but really feel these things are better left to self discovery IMHO

 

But here are a few

It is written (roughly from memory)

When Moses received the commandments He asked when questioned as to who gave me these what I will I say your name is?

The reply was "I am that I am"  or in Hebrew “Ehyeh asher ehyeh”

 

For my self I have always assumed Aum Tat Sat Aum = I am that I am

 

Here is a funny thought.....That famous "interpreted" speech given by Jesus

" I am the way, I am the light, I am the truth"

I always wondered if perhaps it would have been a better interpretation  with "is" inserted after each written "I am" ?

 

Anyway.....these things are for each to wonder themselves. Everyone is where they are at the moment & what seems

plausible to one may not be for another

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by meechai

[billmichael]

On 7/27/2020 at 12:30 AM, CMNightRider said:

Simple conservative math explains a young earth.

 

Let us start in the beginning with one male and one female. Now let us assume that they marry and have children and that their children marry and have children and so on. And let us assume that the population doubles every 150 years. Therefore, after 150 years there will be four people, after another 150 years there will be eight people, after another 150 years there will be sixteen people, and so on. It should be noted that this growth rate is actually very conservative. In reality, even with disease, famines, and natural disasters, the world population currently doubles every 40 years or so. After 32 doublings, which is only 4,800 years, the world population would have reached almost 8.6 billion. That’s 2 billion more than the current population of 6.5 billion people, which was recorded by the U.S. Census Bureau on March 1, 2006. 

 

This simple calculation shows that starting with Adam and Eve and assuming the conservative growth rate previously mentioned, the current population can be reached well within 6,000 years.

 

We know from the Bible, however, that around 2500 BC (4,500 years ago) the worldwide Flood reduced the world population to eight people. But if we assume that the population doubles every 150 years, we see, again, that starting with only Noah and his family in 2500 BC, 4,500 years is more than enough time for the present population to reach 6.5 billion.

 

By using simple math one can see man did not walk on the earth billions or even millions of years ago.

There was a discovery recently about fossilized animal footprints which were determined to be more than 300 MILLION years old.  https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/arizona/hiking/2020/08/23/oldest-grand-canyon-fossils/3404527001/  Note the same science that developed the CAT scan machine is the science used to determine the age of these fossilized foot prints, and the distance to the sun and the stars.  The Earth IS VERY OLD.  Far older than a once tiny religion that began in a tiny country before it spread to the rest of the world.  Religion came about to answer questions which at the time, were unanswerable.  Instead of looking for fairy tales we should maybe revisit the questions we asked so long ago and this time around, answer them truthfully.  

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, billmichael said:

There was a discovery recently about fossilized animal footprints which were determined to be more than 300 MILLION years old.  https://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/arizona/hiking/2020/08/23/oldest-grand-canyon-fossils/3404527001/  Note the same science that developed the CAT scan machine is the science used to determine the age of these fossilized foot prints, and the distance to the sun and the stars.  The Earth IS VERY OLD.  Far older than a once tiny religion that began in a tiny country before it spread to the rest of the world.  Religion came about to answer questions which at the time, were unanswerable.  Instead of looking for fairy tales we should maybe revisit the questions we asked so long ago and this time around, answer them truthfully.  

Please note the thread is about God and if we believe in God and not about religion.

That's been pointed out many times before.

[thaibeachlovers]

Where have all the atheists gone? Were they converted by the thread and now spending their days in contemplation of the divine?

 

I spend much time contemplating the divine in the beautiful nature that I can see out my door every day. Rain, shine, cloud, it's all beautiful nature ( which comes from the creator ).

I was lucky enough to spend the weekend at a small beautiful beach where the vibe was bliss. God is Great.

[quake]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where have all the atheists gone? Were they converted by the thread and now spending their days in contemplation of the divine?

 

I spend much time contemplating the divine in the beautiful nature that I can see out my door every day. Rain, shine, cloud, it's all beautiful nature ( which comes from the creator ).

I was lucky enough to spend the weekend at a small beautiful beach where the vibe was bliss. God is Great.

doubt it, but are pixies real for you ?

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, quake said:

doubt it, but are pixies real for you ?

I've never seen one but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

It's like "love". Something that can't be proven, but most believe it exists.

 

2,000 years ago they wouldn't have believed that the internet could exist- two people communicating thousands of miles apart without so much as a wire in view- must be a mad idea.

2,000 years from now ( if humans haven't polluted themselves to extinction ) fairies and pixies may be a common sight, along with virtual tours of Sirius.

Edited November 22, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[ivor bigun]

very hard to believe that God created billions upon billions of planets ,then decided to send his son down to ours ,dont you think? lovely thought ,but then ,muslims have a different thought , also the Jews who invented him in the first place are still waiting, and then there are so many who believe in a variety of Gods ,its a puzzle i must say .

by the way boys 688 pages ,i never dreamt it would be this popular ,maybe there is a a God????

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ivor bigun said:

very hard to believe that God created billions upon billions of planets ,then decided to send his son down to ours ,dont you think? lovely thought ,but then ,muslims have a different thought , also the Jews who invented him in the first place are still waiting, and then there are so many who believe in a variety of Gods ,its a puzzle i must say .

by the way boys 688 pages ,i never dreamt it would be this popular ,maybe there is a a God????

You are not thinking it through. God being almighty could send "his son" to every planet in the universe at the same instant in time, if God chose to.

Even though it's been explained to you several times that religion is not the same as believing in God you keep coming back with the same religion posts. You should have asked  "do-you-believe-in-RELIGION-and-why?". The thread would have been over about 600 pages ago.

 

[luckyluke]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was lucky enough to spend the weekend at a small beautiful beach where the vibe was bliss. God is Great.

Some will write :

"I was lucky enough to spend the weekend at a small beautiful beach where the vibe was bliss. It was great."

Or while they are there " It is great ".

However for all, the weekend was very enjoyable.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where have all the atheists gone?

They don't want to argue with nutters. Because you can't convince people with logic who "believe".

[thaibeachlovers]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They don't want to argue with nutters. Because you can't convince people with logic who "believe".

but that didn't stop you coming on anyway. Keep it up and we'll make 700 pages yet.

 

Have you considered my point that "love" can't be proven but most believe it exists, and how that relates to belief in God?

In my opinion, people that believe in "romantic love" are deluded as much as you think people that believe in God are.

Edited November 22, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

but that didn't stop you coming on anyway. Keep it up and we'll make 700 pages yet.

 

Have you considered my point that "love" can't be proven but most believe it exists, and how that relates to belief in God?

In my opinion, people that believe in "romantic love" are deluded as much as you think people that believe in God are.

Next thing you going to tell us that you can only be horny if you believe in god. Believe me, you don't have to believe. Just do it. ???? 

[ivor bigun]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You are not thinking it through. God being almighty could send "his son" to every planet in the universe at the same instant in time, if God chose to.

Even though it's been explained to you several times that religion is not the same as believing in God you keep coming back with the same religion posts. You should have asked  "do-you-believe-in-RELIGION-and-why?". The thread would have been over about 600 pages ago.

 

so which son did he send ,The Jewish one who is still to come ,Jesus ,who it took a long time for the CHRISTIANS to decide was the "actual" one or Mo who the Muslims think is the real prophet?

decisions decisions,