Health insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners in Thailand

[Bang Bang]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There's no mention at all in the OP articles on the issues of exclusions, just the required coverage amounts...

 

So if you had a 400,000 / 40,000 baht policy -- BUT, it excluded various things -- how's the MFA and Immigration etc. going to deal with that kind of situation?  I don't think we have any clue...  Might they just keep it simple and only check for the required coverage amounts, and ignore exclusions. I have no idea!

 

Brilliant! Get a 57b./mth health insurance policy which excludes illness. Everything else covered.

 

I am not being sarcastic. TallGuy's onto something. Enough exclusions and the cost could come down to near zero. Is the IM going to read the fine print?

[david555]

10 minutes ago, jesimps said:

Those with pre-existing conditions? No chance, or no payment if you claim.

SO.....there the gov. go get anyway a bill who could possible not be paid …...missing their target unless they force insurances to come up with a clean insurance … but that is also   maybe why they put a low limit of 400 000 baht & 40 000 outpatient .for themselves

Axa expat at 450€ has that condition is that your home country is a "nanny state" , as they have repatriation option included , and so can dump you home on national health care costs..! Fine for me , only that outpatient option is bothering me , else I was complete o.k. with the new rules, as no age or pre conditions excluded, and no pre examination .

A good one that some here already have and no problems with them had.

Edited May 14, 2019 by david555

[Saltire]

Can someone please explain to me the concerns of having to pay outpatient cover when it's only 40k to be covered. Does it make a disproportionate difference to the premium?

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually if you look at the premiums, they are not. And 400k limit is useless IMO.

 

For same price you can get much better level of cover - but NOT for OPD cover. It is this unnecessary  requirement for 40,000 baht of OPD coverage that makes this so difficult.

 

Sheryl, thanks for clarifying about the premium amounts... As for the coverage, that's why I specifically mentioned your general advice about 3-5 million baht being what people SHOULD get for health insurance purposes...

 

But if someone is ONLY looking to meet the new MFA/Immigration rule, then that's a different calculation...  So I guess the question becomes, can older people get a regular health insurance policy with higher coverage limits that covers BOTH inpatient and outpatient for better premium rates than the special Long Term Stay program limited coverage policies?

 

Getting a better policy doesn't do the person any good if it lacks the outpatient component and thus doesn't meet the new rule, and thus makes them ineligible to obtain / renew their retirement O-A visa and extension....

 

[Pattaya46]

43 minutes ago, david555 said:

He stated anyway :

new requirement for all foreigners staying in the country on one-year Non-Immigrant O-A “visas”, or “permits-to-stay”.

 

That last line is clear enough …. 

Clear, maybe (for you), but it's not what is written in the article and OP. To "renew a O-A visa" is returning your country to get a new one.

[Bang Bang]

1 minute ago, david555 said:

Fine for me , only that outpatient option is bothering me

Same here. And many others too I would guess. Should be an opening for an insurance company to come up with a reasonable OPD-only coverage.

Tack that on to your existing inpatient cover and you're good to go.

[The Theory]

12 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

It does not mention people with red hair either! It clearly states LONG STAY up to 1 year.

Ok

it is mandatory to all, 

live with it ????????

[Travill]

Why if gov hospital loss is the real reason for this new rule?

The why  let the money go to the insurance companies?

Let us long stayers buy into the gov medical system of Thailand so the money can go directly to the gov hospitals of Thailand? We get a certificate from immigration to bye when we get one year visa.

That would be fair and really good for gov hospitals in Thailand

[Peterw42]

2 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Can someone please explain to me the concerns of having to pay outpatient cover when it's only 40k to be covered. Does it make a disproportionate difference to the premium?

 

At the moment it does but I imagine it will become an affordable option in the future given these changes

[ginjag]

1 hour ago, Melbun said:

Yeh - and after the expensive surgery or treatment you will have nothing to live on. A street bum caught between both worlds. The Thai's won't allow you to use the 800,000 for medical coverage !!!

You are quite wrong.  He has 800,000,   AND his pension to live on   engage brain, or shut

[sapson]

5 hours ago, BestB said:

my full health insurance cover has a payout of 50 or so million with premium of 55000 baht.

That sounds a very good deal, is it a policy from your home country or from a Thai insurer and roughly what age bracket is that for?

 

Thanks.

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post and the replies to it.

[connda]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Not at all true. Some policies yes but certainly not all. There are several that will newly insure above that age.

Sheryl.  This issue will not be getting insurance.  The issue will be being forced to purchase a policy that can theoretically cost over 1/2 of the maximum payout of the policy.  Then if you use it they do one of two things: raise you premium or cancel the policy.

The real issue here is that the older we get the health insurance policies, especially those issued in Thailand, will increase in magnitudes.  Don't file a claim for two to four years and you've completely funded the companies 400THB/40THB policy. File a claim and they then raise the premiums to an astronomical amount - or they just drop you. It is not sustainable for those who live past 70, 75, or 80.  At what point to they ask for 350k THB to fund a 400 THB policy.  Sure, they issue policies until you die.  But those purchasing the policies will pay dearly.  

The bottom line.  Those of us in our 60s or 70s (or older) supporting families will be crushed, as will our families. Now I truly believe you'll see an exodus.  People like me.  I'm not a "Cheap Charley."  I have the funds to make a good life for my family.  I can afford to pay the premiums on the out-patient policy I have from a foreign company and I can pay those premiums the rest of my life - they publish them up-front.  But add in mandatory in-patient and that's the straw that broke the camel's back.  the policy becomes unaffordable - and you do not need in-patient in Thailand.  I'm not funneling my retirement to an insurance company for the privilege of staying in Thailand because that is money that was meant for support myself and my wife and my family in retirement.  And this whole dog-and-pony show by the Thai government is unnecessary.  They could allow expats with family to buy into the Thai Universal Healthcare Plan for a reasonable cost and probably profit.  The country I'm now considering to move to offers exactly that.  And it's my understanding that Thailand allows people from Myanmar to use the Thai Universal Healthcare Plan.  This is nuts and it will destroy my family.  I can't stay.  Not on these terms.

[Jingthing]

I think many insurance companies will be hard at work to produce some half-arsed 'insurance' plan (at a low cost) just to satisfy the immigration reqs.
I'm in.

Why price it low? Captive audience.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[david555]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Clear, maybe (for you), but it's not what is written in the article and OP. To "renew a O-A visa" is returning your country to get a new one.

A ret.Ext. is a permit to stay ...or not ? We shall now when it appears in the doc. needed for extension , if not you are right .

Besides the discussion should not be for how much you need to be safe …, It must go about what to do to become in their lines to get no problem for your ret. ext. and their are cheap possibillitys as i mentioned already 

That other discussions about how much you need to be safe for all what can happen is only feeding the insurance company's and their agents pockets...

Edited May 14, 2019 by david555

[Sonhia]

A greater percentage of foreigners end up in hospital due to dangerous Thai driving, attacks, poorly maintained equipment and so on... Let's face it, health and safety are lacking in all areas, Thai will not accept fault and are usually hard pushed or refuse to pay for damages or health costs, I know because it happened to me and my Thai X.  We were taken out by an old, drunk, Thai male motorcyclist, far too old to be in control of a vehicle, with no insurance, no license, no helmet! We all ended up in hospital with me being forced to pay for all costs, including damages to the bike the idiot who caused the accident had been riding, by the Thai police, simply because I am a farang!

 

Does the rule apply to those foreigners from Asian member states or just to Western FARAAG!

 

In my opinion it is just another excuse to victimise plus excersise racism. Yet another way to claw money from foreigners to help fund extravagance. 

 

Hospital treatment should be free. Consider how much revenue the government generate from foreigners and consider the value for money foreginers get in return...

Edited May 14, 2019 by Sonhia
Edit

[GalaxyMan]

If they only want to make sure that we can afford 400,000 in medical bills, an alternative to having to pay for an overpriced policy would be to raise the permanent cash requirement another 400,000 so that we'd have to have 800,000 in an account at all time, with 1.2 million for the relevant 5-6 months. It would accomplish the same thing.

[Letseng]

55 minutes ago, Brickbat said:

No vagueness about this , as many claim. It’s pay up or ship out. Bye Bye farangs. This is the end of the road for Thailand as a cheap retirement destination. 

And I don’t blame them. It’s clear as hell. Cheap farangs don’t pay their hospital bills. So stop complaining! 

Why would Thailand want to be "cheap retirement destination"?

Too many tourists and others can't or won't pay hospital bills. The honest ones get punished.

 

[david555]

10 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Can someone please explain to me the concerns of having to pay outpatient cover when it's only 40k to be covered. Does it make a disproportionate difference to the premium?

 

Extra marketing targeting by the hospitals ….more income possibillity's

[laislica]

I may be wrong but, I seem to recall that Thailand already added a surcharge to air travel  to cover medical costs.

If so, will that be removed?

[Kerryd]

14 minutes ago, randy723 said:

does BKK bank have medical insurance for retiree?

Yes, depending on your age. According to their site they will insure up to 59 years of age, and continue up to 69 for those who have policies before they turned 60.
https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/My-Family-and-Me/Bancassurance/Life-Insurance/Health-1st

However, there are rip-off, er, I mean the "tailored specifically for this new rule" policies available from other outlets as per this link:
https://longstay.tgia.org/
that offer less coverage for more money (and will insure to higher ages as well).

[Rod the Sod]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually if you look at the premiums, they are not. And 400k limit is useless IMO.

 

For same price you can get much better level of cover - but NOT for OPD cover. It is this unnecessary  requirement for 40,000 baht of OPD coverage that makes this so difficult.

Sheryl and for others. I have spoken to my Health/Medical Broker this morning as my present cover is plentiful in terms of IP, but doesn't have OP cover. I asked if this was possible to add to my policy as I go for an Extension of Stay on my RV next week (better prepared kind of thing). His response was:

 

"We have heard about this before, however I would advise waiting until this is a definite requirement, as at the moment it is still up in the air on how they will assess. I have heard that this may be the requirement to have outpatient included; however, I personally think that as long as you have hospitalization cover at the minimum this will be accepted – especially if you have an international policy.

 

So we can wait until it is for certain and then we can see about adding outpatient to your policy if required?"

 

I replied saying I had a passbook with TB200k in a Fixed Deposit I could show to prove I have more than TB40k in funds to cover OP care. He responded:

 

"I am reading a lot of case-by-case scenarios when it comes to having an international policy, having a certain amount of savings etc. The government will assess case by case initially it seems."

 

I shall be using an Agent as I always do and happy to update my experiences next week.

 

Cheers RtS

[Letseng]

3 minutes ago, Sonhia said:

Hospital treatment should be free. Consider how much revenue the government generate from foreigners and consider the value for money foreginers get in return...

You live in a dreamworld.

[Bang Bang]

1 minute ago, vinniekintana said:

I would hope they'd also offer the option of a higher bank deposit but no obligation to buy insurance.

I suspect this will be the case. I can't imagine IMOs parsing multipage policies written in English.

 

In fact, here's 100b. that says that, in fact, an X hundred thousand b. "healthcare deposit" in a separate ac. will be what they want.

[Jimdandy]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

 if they wish to use health insurance that they bought overseas, they must ensure that the coverage amount is no less than what is required by the rule.

I have an HMO plan that has a component called 'Away From Home'. When I was here in February I got sick, went to the hospital, paid cash, submitted my bill when I got back home and my insurance reimbursed me 100%. I still pay my premium in the US no matter how long I stay here so don't let anybody 'double dip you'. There are some HMOs in the US that will reimburse you. Check with your member services. My suggestion is look into something similar and stay out of this hornets nest. 

[totally thaied up]

Isn't this just for O-A visas? No talk of extensions. Why has everyone got there nickers in a knot? 

[giddyup]

6 minutes ago, Sonhia said:

 

Hospital treatment should be free. Consider how much revenue the government generate from foreigners and consider the value for money foreginers get in return...

Can you imagine the influx of people flooding here for treatment?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Brilliant! Get a 57b./mth health insurance policy which excludes illness. Everything else covered.

 

I am not being sarcastic. TallGuy's onto something. Enough exclusions and the cost could come down to near zero. Is the IM going to read the fine print?

 

You don't get to "exclude" things by choice (types of illnesses) in order to lower your premiums.

 

The insurers mandate exclusions based on things in your recent medical history that they're not going to cover.  And when they issue those exclusions from a policy, that doesn't change the required premium at all.

 

The only things the policyholder can adjust are -- what insurer he uses, what the coverage amounts are, whether the coverage is inpatient only or also outpatient, and what amount of deductible amount the policyholder has to pay before the insurance kicks in.

 

 

[Kerryd]

13 minutes ago, Saltire said:

Can someone please explain to me the concerns of having to pay outpatient cover when it's only 40k to be covered. Does it make a disproportionate difference to the premium?

 

 

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Extra marketing targeting by the hospitals ….more income possibillity's

Take my policy for example. When I was on "Plan 4" I could make 30 visits per year with a maximum cost of 1,500 baht/visit any time I had a headache or minor "owwie" that need a bandaid.

That policy cost me 27,000/year (including the Inpatient coverage of course).

 

Meanwhile, the "Plan 2" of the same policy gets rid of those 30 visits per year, keeps the same Inpatient coverage and costs 21,000 per year. So if you are like me and rarely go to the hospital for anything, and then prefer to just pay cash, Plan 2 makes more sense.

However, if you like to go to the hospital 2-3 times a month for whatever reason(s), then you may want to opt for the higher OPD coverage as it would be cheaper than paying for all those visits yourself.

 

Also, knowing that long stay expats will now have to have higher OPD limits, there's nothing stopping the hospitals from simply raising their rates for OPD services. 

[ginjag]

52 minutes ago, carstenp said:

http://www.bangkokinsurance.com/long-stay-visa/

 

NOT mentioned,  pre existing conditions, so if there are some, does this mean you are paying 133,373 for nothing ??  it only covers for things than may not be a problem.