Health insurance mandatory for long-stay foreigners in Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Isn't this just for O-A visas? No talk of extensions. Why has everyone got there nickers in a knot? 

 

My guess is, they probably mean to include retirement extensions.... since in the past, they've usually meant retirement extensions when the government has talked about renewing or extending retirement visas....  The government announcements here don't usually seem to use the "extensions" term very much.

 

But I'll admit, the OP articles here today are not clear or conclusive on that point.

 

[Bang Bang]

Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You don't get to "exclude" things by choice (types of illnesses) in order to lower your premiums.

 

The insurers mandate exclusions based on things in your recent medical history that they're not going to cover.  And when they issue those exclusions from a policy, that doesn't change the required premium at all.

 

The only things the policyholder can adjust are -- what insurer he uses, what the coverage amounts are, whether the coverage is inpatient only or also outpatient, and what amount of deductible amount the policyholder has to pay before the insurance kicks in.

 

 

I understand that. But I'm talking shady. A deep in the soi insurer who writes you a policy which excludes pretty much everything.

 

He makes the premium with zero risk of payout. Insuree = happy expat.

Unethical but not illegal.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Isn't this just for O-A visas? No talk of extensions. Why has everyone got there nickers in a knot? 

No nickers in a knot …,but why you not open eyes when reading...?    

or “permits-to-stay”.

[Krataiboy]

6 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Geez seriously??

Kind of pushing things isn´t it?

 

This thread will go on for many pages with 99% of the attacks on the Government, ins. companies and immigration.

Very naive and not real.

 

The fact is this had been talked about for several years do to the irresponsible, low life expats who do not pay their hospital bills.  That is the truth but all the BS will continue....

 

 

 

I'd love to know who all these expats are who supposedly get treatment at Thai hospitals and do a bunk without paying the bills. In my experience over many years, a Thai hospital simply won't let you leave until the bill has been paid.

 

One hte last occasion I stayed in a Thai government hospital, they insisted my wife wait by the bed I had occupied until I had returned with proof that I had handed over the cash.

 

I suspect this new ruling has less to do with the strain imposed on the Thai health service by falangs bilking the system than seizing an opportunity to squeeze more cash out expats, all of whom Thais assume are stinking rich.

 

 

 

 

[Kerryd]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

NOT mentioned,  pre existing conditions, so if there are some, does this mean you are paying 133,373 for nothing ??  it only covers for things than may not be a problem.

Actually it is mentioned - directly below that chart.
 

"Remarks:
1.	Maximum acceptable age: 80 years
2.	Pre-existing Conditions: No benefits provided for any illness or injury for which a Covered Person received any diagnosis, medical advice or treatment, or had taken any prescribed drug, or where distinct symptoms were evident prior to the effective date."

[Krataiboy]

6 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Geez seriously??

Kind of pushing things isn´t it?

 

This thread will go on for many pages with 99% of the attacks on the Government, ins. companies and immigration.

Very naive and not real.

 

The fact is this had been talked about for several years do to the irresponsible, low life expats who do not pay their hospital bills.  That is the truth but all the BS will continue....

 

 

 

I'd love to know who all these expats are who supposedly get treatment at Thai hospitals and do a bunk without paying the bills. In my experience over many years, a Thai hospital simply won't let you leave until the bill has been paid.

 

One hte last occasion I stayed in a Thai government hospital, they insisted my wife wait by the bed I had occupied until I had returned with proof that I had handed over the cash.

 

I suspect this new ruling has less to do with the strain imposed on the Thai health service by falangs bilking the system than seizing an opportunity to squeeze more cash out expats, all of whom Thais assume are stinking rich.

 

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, ginjag said:

NOT mentioned,  pre existing conditions, so if there are some, does this mean you are paying 133,373 for nothing ??  it only covers for things than may not be a problem.

 

It probably means....

1. the insurer will take the person's medical history, and then decide to exclude specific things based on that history.

2. the extent of the exclusions would depend on the extent of the person's past medical problems, what kind of problems they were, and how far back and/or ongoing they may be.

 

Pre-existing condition exclusions are a standard part of health insurance underwriting here and elsewhere. But what we have zero idea on at present, is how the new Immigration/MFA rule on 400K / 40K of coverage is going to deal with exclusions, if it does at all...

 

[thelovedone]

My visa is a Non O retirement visa.

I also have a Social Security Office health care card for free treatment in the Thaii hospital system. Curious if people in my position will now  be required to have additional insurance?

 

 

 

[sniggie]

16 minutes ago, vinniekintana said:

I think many insurance companies will be hard at work to produce some half-arsed 'insurance' plan (at a low cost) just to satisfy the immigration reqs.

I'm in.

Probably correct. In reverse, so many companies offering 'Shengen insurance" for Thais and other visa applicants to Europe. I wonder how many of those pay out!

[mommysboy]

A major event, even treated at a public hospital, could go north of 1.5 million baht.

[Peterw42]

To put this announcement into some sort of context.

 

The O-X 10 year visa already has a compulsory insurance requirement, when it was announced most existing policies didn't suit the requirement.

In response to the new insurance requirements, insurance companies made new policies to meet the requirements. The new policies are listed here https://longstay.tgia.org.

The same link appears on Thai embassy websites under the O-X information. (the place you get the visa from)

 

When the OX visa and insurance requirements were announced it applied to only OX visa, not to all longstay visa's.

(the same as this thread, many took it to apply to all longstays)

 

The OP is an announcement for insurance to now apply to OA visa, and it appears only OA visa's.

 

As with the OX visa, insurance companies will probably draft up new policies to suit the OA insurance requirements, they will probably appear on the same website https://longstay.tgia.org, and the website will be listed on Thai embassy websites. (the place you get the OA visa from)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Kerryd said:

Actually it is mentioned - directly below that chart.
 

"Remarks:
1.	Maximum acceptable age: 80 years
2.	Pre-existing Conditions: No benefits provided for any illness or injury for which a Covered Person received any diagnosis, medical advice or treatment, or had taken any prescribed drug, or where distinct symptoms were evident prior to the effective date."

 

That's a pretty BROAD exclusions policy if they actually implement it that way.... I'd call that a pretty big ripoff!!!!!

 

[stanleycoin]

Wonder how long before Somchai's fake insurance company comes into play.  

 

[totally thaied up]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

But I'll admit, the OP articles here today are not clear or conclusive on that point

The OP article is about as useless as tits on a bull. There is no clarity and will not worry about this until I see what the Thai government puts out in the future. 

 

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

nickers in a knot …,but why you not open eyes when reading...?    

or “permits-to-stay”.

Until I read extensions from a proper source, no need to get frothing at the mouth

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's a pretty BROAD exclusions policy if they actually implement it that way.... I'd call that a pretty big ripoff!!!!!

 

Cash cow. End of.

[david555]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

The OP article is about as useless as tits on a bull. There is no clarity and will not worry about this until I see what the Thai government puts out in the future. 

 

Until I read extensions from a proper source, no need to get frothing at the mouth

"no need to get frothing at the mouth"

 

nickers in a knot is from same order I would think 

[Kwasaki]

I apply again for marriage extension on 31st March so maybe then I know whether stay or go.

[Melbun]

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

If there is no change in getting affordable health insurance in Thailand, there will be a massive exodus of expats. Including me.

In terms of the overall population if all the expats disappeared no one will notice. The Chinese , Koreans and Japanese will be welcomed with open arms. The 2 week millionaires will , as they always do, still come in droves. Notice those guys aren't breaking their necks to live in Thailand.

[beau thai]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Actually if you look at the premiums, they are not. And 400k limit is useless IMO.

 

For same price you can get much better level of cover - but NOT for OPD cover. It is this unnecessary  requirement for 40,000 baht of OPD coverage that makes this so difficult.

Sheryl this whole thing looks badly thought through and so hopefully will be refined.

 

Many older expats will suffer with cancer, statistically. Chemo will be an outpatient category,along with asociated screening, and will rapidly burn through 40,000baht. Cancer also tends to re-occur - by which time it will be an uninsured pre-existing condition!. 

 

Premiums are so high now for older folk (if insurance available at all) as those in most need are most likely to insure-'selection against the insurer'.  But if the government works with the health insurers, and the entire population of expats HAVE to buy cover, then the risk dynamics for the insurer change considerably for the better, and premiums should reduce, to reflect the actuarial risk.

 

Lets hope commonsense prevails eventually as the premiums shown above for the very old exceed 50% of the inpatient benefit and are 5 times the oupatient cover! If I understand this proposal correctly ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[connda]

24 minutes ago, vinniekintana said:

You are right.

 

I would hope they'd also offer the option of a higher bank deposit but no obligation to buy insurance.

Don't bet on it.  I'm not holding my breath.  Thais can't project into the future.  The can't see how this is going to effect not only the cash cows they milk but themselves as they slaughter the cash cows for a quick profit. 

 

It end's badly for everyone.  

[rabas]

Just now, Melbun said:

In terms of the overall population if all the expats disappeared no one will notice except the bars and bar girls. Although the Chinese , Koreans and Japanese will takes care of that. Notice those guys aren't breaking their necks to live in Thailand.

My family of nearly 50, three generations, many of whom I have helped to build their lives, will notice. But my niece just now said it's ok if you go.

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's a pretty BROAD exclusions policy if they actually implement it that way.... I'd call that a pretty big ripoff!!!!!

 

That's why it pays to get health insurance when you are younger. It was obvious that this would happen sooner, or later.

I'm with Pacific Cross. Due to my keeping the no claims bonus, I now pay 56k per annum for 50 million baht coverage and I'll be 61 this year.

This is cheaper than what they are offering for the 400k coverage. Yes, they are pretty ruthless when it comes to pre-existing conditions, but, then what do you expect? They're a for-profit company as are all insurance companies.

[maxcorrigan]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Again, based on the wording of this Phuket News report, they SEEM to be focusing their wrath on retirement visas and extensions -- and no mention at all of marriage-based visas or extensions....

 

But obviously, there's no telling right now how Immigration is likely to enforce this in the future...

 

Although, they did recently set a precedent for treating retirement extensions differently than marriage extensions, when Immigration adopted the new "maintain your Thai bank deposit year-round" rule, and didn't apply that same concept to marriage extensions at all.

 

on one-year Non-Immigrant O-A “visas”, or “permits-to-stay”.

I would imagine "or permits to stay" just about covers us all whether married or not, what i want to know is how does this affect us married to a thai ex-government worker, whereby we are so far covered on their government insurance!

[rocketman777]

9 hours ago, quandow said:

I did two inquiries at the website provided. Typical Thai inefficiency. Can't get a straight answer or quote, not even a ballpark price.

On the contrary  - 3 of the links went straight to a price scheduled

 

Pacific Cross International Limited  seemed to be the cheapest a 'mere'  90,000 baht/yr if you are 76 or over

[Kerryd]

Considering this "new rule" was apparently approved by the Cabinet on 2 April, it seems odd that we are just hearing about it now (6 weeks later) and they don't even say when the new rule takes effect.

Does this require a new "Police Order" to become effective like the last change did ?

[mommysboy]

Wow! There're people on this board who will need to spend 80k upwards for a product that only half covers them. Thailand is no place to be an old expat.

[Peterw42]

17 minutes ago, Isaanbiker said:

A 60-year-old with multiple problems will have considerable difficulties in finding a suitable and affordable company.

How was this 60 year old intending to take care of his "multiple problems" without insurance ?

[connda]

27 minutes ago, Rod the Sod said:

Sheryl and for others. I have spoken to my Health/Medical Broker this morning as my present cover is plentiful in terms of IP, but doesn't have OP cover. I asked if this was possible to add to my policy as I go for an Extension of Stay on my RV next week (better prepared kind of thing). His response was:

 

"We have heard about this before, however I would advise waiting until this is a definite requirement, as at the moment it is still up in the air on how they will assess. I have heard that this may be the requirement to have outpatient included; however, I personally think that as long as you have hospitalization cover at the minimum this will be accepted – especially if you have an international policy.

 

So we can wait until it is for certain and then we can see about adding outpatient to your policy if required?"

 

I replied saying I had a passbook with TB200k in a Fixed Deposit I could show to prove I have more than TB40k in funds to cover OP care. He responded:

 

"I am reading a lot of case-by-case scenarios when it comes to having an international policy, having a certain amount of savings etc. The government will assess case by case initially it seems."

 

I shall be using an Agent as I always do and happy to update my experiences next week.

 

Cheers RtS

Actually - now agents will become a necessity illegal or not.  But even given that option, there is no future in Thailand.  It's time to leave.  Sorry about the families. But the Thai government as a bunch of elitist who care not for common Thai or their 'Farang" husbands. 

[lelapin]

I am a 78 yo who has lived in Thailand for 15 years. I have had 7 stents inserted and am currently receiving medical treatment for cancer. I have paid myself about 1,000,000 baht for all the medical treatment I have received here. In the unlikely event that I could get medical insurance I obviously would not be covered for pre existing conditions.  The Thai authorities are planning these new measures  to ensure that expats will not put a financial strain on their country by making sure that their hospital bills will be covered by medical insurance. How will that work when a large proportion of expat medical costs will be for treatment that will be excluded by insurance - as is likely to be the situation in my case. Is it their intention to ban expats with pre conditions from settling here. 

[Melbun]

3 minutes ago, rabas said:

My family of nearly 50, three generations, many of whom I have helped to build their lives, will notice. But my niece just now said it's ok if you go.

That is really funny mate. Your niece must be very close to you.