How to get PEA to upgrade my Amp Service

[bankruatsteve]

7 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

With the 32 amp breaker being the main incoming side, will i need to kill power at the pole to change them?

I think your main breaker in the CU is 63a, yah?  Depending on if/how you re-do stuff, you may/may not need to kill power at the pole.

[jimmyyy]

The 32 amp circuits, if i throw them the whole house dies, no power at all.  My welder and I know i am gonna catch hell for this, but i use an extension cord and route that to where i am welding. 

 

Here is what it says on it.  IGBT DC Inverter Welder Equipment Welding Machine Single Phase 220V

[jimmyyy]

yes main breaker is the two 32 fuses together to make one.  Should i upgrade that one to something larger, and go for 30 for the other 6?

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Is that a 5/15 or 15/45 you cannot upgrade?

 

Many places cannot go above a 15/45.

I think the former, but perhaps you could understand it better for me?

 

I have similar symptoms to Jimmy, in the kitchen if I have the oven and kettle or water heater on at the same time, the box will trip. If we turn on or off the fan in the bedroom whilst the aircon is on, tha tv will flicker off and on etc....

 

We can run three ac units in different bedrooms without any problems (one at 19,000 BTU, two at 13,000).

 

They just told my wife "15 Amp, no more". When we get the chanote sorted for the land out the back we can get an additional supply connected (nominally for farm use) but I'm not sure if we could put that to our advantage in the house.

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

Crossy if PEA asks me should i max out at 15/45 or just do incremental upgrading. 

 

PEA normally do 5/15, 15/45 or (in restricted locations) 30/100 in single-phase. Most of us manage on a 15/45.

 

I see you already have a 63A incoming breaker, is that opening on overload?? 

[Crossy]

@Blue Muton Is it your incoming breaker that's opening? What rating (amps) is it?

 

Post a photo of your meter and your distribution board.

[jimmyyy]

Just now, Crossy said:

 

PEA normally do 5/15, 15/45 or (in restricted locations) 30/100 in single-phase. Most of us manage on a 15/45.

 

I see you already have a 63A incoming breaker, is that opening on overload?? 

I don't understand what you mean by overload?  If i switch my welder on or if we run to much in the house, it will start tripping breakers, i had my welder and air compressor going and it tripped the main breaker.  I hope i am describing this to you correctly.  If not please let me know. 

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, jimmyyy said:

The 32 amp circuits, if i throw them the whole house dies, no power at all.  My welder and I know i am gonna catch hell for this, but i use an extension cord and route that to where i am welding. 

 

Here is what it says on it.  IGBT DC Inverter Welder Equipment Welding Machine Single Phase 220V

Huh?  Are you saying that if you turn off the breakers labeled 32amp in positions 4 and 5 (is that right) you go black???  The breaker on the far left is your main breaker and, I think, 63a.  

 

Your welder can probably run on 20a circuit but NOT via extension cord.

[jimmyyy]

no, the ones on the left is the main breaker.  the ones in position 4 (living Room, air con and all associated), position 5 is the kitchen and outside outlets.  i have been throwing breakers are running around with a shop light.

[Blue Muton]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

@Blue Muton Is it your incoming breaker that's opening? What rating (amps) is it?

 

Usually it's just the switch for the kitchen.

[jimmyyy]

So perhaps a generator set is best for the welder, although i don't use it much anymore now that everything is complete at the house.  I built a large metal fence, gates and a covered area for the whole property.

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, jimmyyy said:

I don't understand what you mean by overload?  If i switch my welder on or if we run to much in the house, it will start tripping breakers, i had my welder and air compressor going and it tripped the main breaker.  I hope i am describing this to you correctly.  If not please let me know. 

 

If you are opening a 63A breaker you need more than a simple supply upgrade.

 

You may be able to get a 30/100 (up to 100A incoming breaker) but PEA are not happy to install in a village environment.

 

Next step would be to go 3-phase.

 

That said, we have a 15/45 on a 63A incomer, even with the welder and compressor (and Madam's 5HP of irrigation) we have never opened the incomer.

 

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Usually it's just the switch for the kitchen.

 

In that case you need an extra circuit for the kitchen to spread the load.

[jimmyyy]

OK that makes since, i will ask for a 15/45 upgrade from PEA, and get an electrican out here to inspect the box and make sure the wiring is good for the upgrade.  Thanks!

[Blue Muton]

3 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

In that case you need an extra circuit for the kitchen to spread the load.

Thanks for the advice, I'll be right back with the address for the bill. Honest.

[bankruatsteve]

11 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

OK that makes since, i will ask for a 15/45 upgrade from PEA, and get an electrican out here to inspect the box and make sure the wiring is good for the upgrade.  Thanks!

And, you most likely will want to replace the 32a and the 10a (non-light circuit) breakers to 20amp.

 

Again, the 15/45 meter is the way to go BUT it won't solve your dimming issue unless PEA is persuaded to boost the supply.

[bankruatsteve]

37 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

yes main breaker is the two 32 fuses together to make one.  Should i upgrade that one to something larger, and go for 30 for the other 6?

I'm pretty sure it is full 63amp double pole (both L and N) breaker.  The other breakers in your box are just single pole (L only).

 

And, NO and NO.  Your main breaker is just fine (it should probably be replaced with 63a RCBO if anything.  The other breakers should be 20amp (except for light circuits stay with the 10a).

Edited May 20, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[sometimewoodworker]

46 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

That was not the case for us, despite Mrs BM arranging for the supply to our whole road to be renewed and re-routed a couple of years ago (after we had waited for a year), we have been unable to get them to sell us more than 15 amps. This is a real PITA with no resolution in sight.

If  couple of years ago they were saying 15A maximum that would have been a 15/45 supply (you currently have a 5A supply [5/15]). They never use the higher number so offer 5A, 15A, 30A then 3 phase 15A

 

As you are a couple of years later it will not hurt to ask for a 30A supply, they will quite possibly say "no can do" then offer a 15A.

 

FWIW We have a 30/100 and are using about ½ the power you are our bill this month is 741 units (up from 640 last month.

[bankruatsteve]

Yeah - when I built my first house 20 years ago, I didn't understand the meter ratings.  So, when they told me I would get a 15a meter, I insisted on the 30a.  They finally gave in (crazy farang) and I got the 30/100.  BUT whenever I turned on 2 or more aircon at a time, it would brown out the neighborhood.  That took several years to finally get PEA to resolve.

[Blue Muton]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If  couple of years ago they were saying 15A maximum that would have been a 15/45 supply (you currently have a 5A supply [5/15]). They never use the higher number so offer 5A, 15A, 30A then 3 phase 15A

 

As you are a couple of years later it will not hurt to ask for a 30A supply, they will quite possibly say "no can do" then offer a 15A.

 

FWIW We have a 30/100 and are using about ½ the power you are our bill this month is 741 units (up from 640 last month.

Sorry, appreciate the reply but I've read your post a couple of times and can't figure it out. If they said they were giving us 15 Amp would that not be the 15/45?

 

I hadn't previously stated our usage but FWIW last month was 852 units, being particularly high for us thanks to the hot weather. I think you may be muddling Jimmyy's and my posts?

 

In any event you're right, it's a good idea to give them another nudge.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

11 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Sorry, appreciate the reply but I've read your post a couple of times and can't figure it out. If they said they were giving us 15 Amp would that not be the 15/45?

 

I hadn't previously stated our usage but FWIW last month was 852 units, being particularly high for us thanks to the hot weather. I think you may be muddling Jimmyy's and my posts?

I was missing the fact that there are 2 people asking in the same thread. So @Blue Muton you probably have a 15/45 you can easily check as it's on the meter, you probably paid about 8,000 deposit on the meter and @jimmyy you should probably ask for a 30A supply and accept them telling you that a 15A is the biggest.

[crazykopite]

2 hours ago, jimmyyy said:

My electric bill typically runs between 7 and 10k a month

OMG what are you running my bill has never been more than 3,000 baht and I run a 16 mtr pool for 8 hrs a day , induction hob , double door fridge freezer  3 aircon units water heaters all run off a 30 KVA transformer .okay all my stuff is the latest inverter systems so I know that makes good savings and all my ceiling fans which run all the time are MR KEN AC to DC on top of this I have computer iPads 2 65” smart TVs as well as a lot of low V outdoor lighting and automatic ceiling extractor fans in the bathrooms 

[jimmyyy]

alot more than you are

[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

alot more than you are

 

An average load of 3.5kW is a lot for a 5/15 supply, I'm quite surprised you've not had a visit from the PEA chaps

 

I'm not really, PEA only care if your meter heads to low earth orbit.

 

By the way, overloads can cause those simple mechanical meters to mis-read, bet they don't read low.

 

[jimmyyy]

no need to be pissy, but my shop probably pulls more than your whole house.

[bankruatsteve]

24 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

no need to be pissy, but my shop probably pulls more than your whole house.

If your "shop" is a detached building, you should consider putting a sub-panel (CU) in that with 2-3 circuits/receptacles for your toys.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

If your "shop" is a detached building, you should consider putting a sub-panel (CU) in that with 2-3 circuits/receptacles for your toys.

Even if it is part of the house a separate CU is a good idea 

 

main incomming box

 

workshop CU 1

[oldmanstan]

13 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

An average load of 3.5kW is a lot for a 5/15 supply, I'm quite surprised you've not had a visit from the PEA chaps

 

I'm not really, PEA only care if your meter heads to low earth orbit.

 

By the way, overloads can cause those simple mechanical meters to mis-read, bet they don't read low.

 

 

Not an attempt to highjack the thread but was reading through here and this piqued my interest.  I have one AC 18000btu, water pump and water heater, Cpl tvs and computers.  Find my power bills to be consistently higher (in my newly built house w 5/15) over all my other places with similar if not lower power consumtion.  

 

What kind of options does a regular Joe (w little electrical experience) have in verifying whether their reader is misreading too high?  

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, oldmanstan said:

(in my newly built house w 5/15)

 

Do you really have a 5/15 on a new build?

 

Anyway, there are no really easy ways to check your meter, but you should verify that nobody is "borrowing" your power by tapping into your supply, it's not unknown.

 

Also, do you have a permanent supply yet (will need an inspection by PEA/MEA)? During the build you likely had a construction supply, this is charged at 8 Baht per unit rather than the normal 4 baht. Could that be the reason for the apparent increase? Your bill should indicate the per-unit rate.

 

[oldmanstan]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

 

Do you really have a 5/15 on a new build?

 

Anyway, there are no really easy ways to check your meter, but you should verify that nobody is "borrowing" your power by tapping into your supply, it's not unknown.

 

Also, do you have a permanent supply yet (will need an inspection by PEA/MEA)? During the build you likely had a construction supply, this is charged at 8 Baht per unit rather than the normal 4 baht. Could that be the reason for the apparent increase? Your bill should indicate the per-unit rate.

 

 

That was poorly worded on my behalf.  New build on old chanote plot.  Original 5/15 feed and meter from likely 20+ years.  I was researching the same as @jimmyyy about upgrading to 15/45 but I don't think I'm using anywhere near OPs amount, roughly 300 in cold season to 600units a month in hot.  

 

Checked for anyone 'borrowing' best I could and if I kill house power it does seem to stop the meter spinning.  From all bills it showing at normal ~4thb/unit.

 

Was just more curious how normal it is for a meter to misread/spin. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by oldmanstan