Changes made by TransferWise transfers to Thai bank accounts

[VBF]

6 minutes ago, pookiki said:

For some reason I haven't been getting the same frequency of emails from TVF for news or forums. If I had seen this, I would not have started a new thread. Despite my mistake, there is a wide divergence in information on exactly what TransferWise is doing.  The only definitive answer is that TransferWise will not guarantee how you get your transfer even if you do request a 'tag'.  As such, I think the 'partnering' banks for TransferWise should establish a new code to insure that all future transfers into Thailand are noted as 'international' transfers. However, this suggestion/solution will most likely fall on deaf ears.  Sorry if I ruined your day by making a new thread.

Not ruining my day (I ain't quite that sad!) but the more threads, the more complicated keeping up gets. (We've got the same with multiple threads discussing visas from London)

On the other thread, I did suggest that possibly that people affected by TW's changes could ask TW for the option of guaranteeing a route.

And @Tanoshi we cross-posted

Edited July 13, 2019 by VBF

[MeowBundit]

Yesterday I get FTT transfer to BBL

 

Before this, on Monday called UK support line and created transfer guided by support. I also asked them my email to TAG my account.

Transfer was very slow, until on Thursday they said they solve some tech problems but can't guarantee transfer to BBL.

They sent transfer 9 AM Friday (as usual +- 30 min at that time) and it arrived 2 PM (as usual +- 5 min) with SMS notification and proper code. 

Now I believe they do some system upgrade. While they can't guarantee the transfer will go to BBL directly, this is their partner bank, and they (I hope) will not want to loss a lot of income. Let's see what will be in August. 

Anyway I look for alternative now. TW WAS good 5 months in a row for me, but not anymore. 

[pookiki]

56 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Read my post #13 for the underlying problem.

I did read your post and maybe I don't understand it completely.  My BBL account was opened at the BBL main office (headquarters) on Silom Rd.  There is no subsequent transfer to a 'branch'.  Given this information, is the information you are conveying still applicable to my situation?

[pontious]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

I did suggest that possibly that people affected by TW's changes could ask TW for the option of guaranteeing a route.

They can't. Every email I have read say's contact us and we will tag it. Then phone after it is set up but before you send money. That does not work. If say Bangkok bank has a technical problem then it will automatically choose another bank for transfer . TW cannot stop it - it does it.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, HHTel said:

I use TW (the last one was a month ago) and it's always taken a matter of hours, not days!

In my case as my state pension is always paid on a Friday it gets paid on the Monday unless that is a public holiday when it gets paid on the next working day.

[pookiki]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

In my case as my state pension is always paid on a Friday it gets paid on the Monday unless that is a public holiday when it gets paid on the next working day.

Since using TW, I would initiate the transfer on Wednesday, noon Bangkok time and the money would arrive by Friday afternoon Bangkok time with an sms from BBL.  And this was the schedule noted my TW.

 

However, this month, I was told the money would arrive on Monday which clearly indicated some type of procedural change by TW.  However, the money still arrived on Friday afternoon but without any sms from BBL to indicate that it was an international transfer.  Just happenstance that I checked my account balance online.  And as noted before, it was coded 'interbank transfer via SMART'.

[pontious]

Everyone is wasting time and money contacting TW and asking it to be tagged, and then phoning to confirm,blah , blah, blah. When it arrives in Thailand if Bangkok bank staff are doing there make-up it will automatically go to the next bank. TW has no control over it . It is automatic.  They cannot stop it.

[berrec]

 A couple of points of TFW authentication without regard for banking codes, you can log into your TFW account and screen print a history of your transfers in addition with every transaction you receive an email from TFW, so there are two additional sources of verification of monthly International money transfers to support any bank statements or letters for Immigration. 

[pookiki]

14 minutes ago, berrec said:

 A couple of points of TFW authentication without regard for banking codes, you can log into your TFW account and screen print a history of your transfers in addition with every transaction you receive an email from TFW, so there are two additional sources of verification of monthly International money transfers to support any bank statements or letters for Immigration. 

I think most of us using TFW are aware of this but some Immigration Officers are loathe to accept 'foreign' documents.  One can only wait, hope, and see what happens. The best alternative is to get documents from the Thai bank that initiated the SMART inter-bank transfer.

[Tanoshi]

14 hours ago, pookiki said:

I did read your post and maybe I don't understand it completely.  My BBL account was opened at the BBL main office (headquarters) on Silom Rd.  There is no subsequent transfer to a 'branch'.  Given this information, is the information you are conveying still applicable to my situation?

Then your a minority of the majority of expats who have an account with BKK.

[Tanoshi]

13 hours ago, pookiki said:

Since using TW, I would initiate the transfer on Wednesday, noon Bangkok time and the money would arrive by Friday afternoon Bangkok time with an sms from BBL.  And this was the schedule noted my TW.

Are you transferring from a UK bank using the 'faster payments' option.

From initiating a transfer through TW, it always takes a matter of hours, not days to receive the funds.

 

It really depends how fast your bank release the funds to TW, in some cases in can take 2/3 days.

[pookiki]

25 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Are you transferring from a UK bank using the 'faster payments' option.

From initiating a transfer through TW, it always takes a matter of hours, not days to receive the funds.

 

It really depends how fast your bank release the funds to TW, in some cases in can take 2/3 days.

I'm transferring from the US (Hawaii) and my funds are normally released to TW within 24 hours. Three days is fine with me and much better than BBL was in the past by using their branch in New York.  However the transfer time is not the overriding issue, it's the BBL bank code when it arrives at BBL - if the transfer has been processed through an intermediary Thai bank.

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, pookiki said:

I'm transferring from the US (Hawaii) and my funds are normally released to TW within 24 hours. Three days is fine with me and much better than BBL was in the past by using their branch in New York.  However the transfer time is not the overriding issue, it's the BBL bank code when it arrives at BBL - if the transfer has been processed through an intermediary Thai bank.

If it's a guarantee of an International transfer, then do a direct transfer from your US bank to BKK.

Of course the transfer fee will be higher and the exchange rate lower.

 

Otherwise continue to 'tag' each payment through TW to BKK and if for any reason the payment happens to go through their KK or TMB partner to your BKK account, then request a credit advise receipt from KK or TMB partners, or print off the pdf receipt from TW and ask your IO if that is sufficient proof of an International transfer.

 

Everyone using the Income method of proof is in the same boat in making choices.

[SammyJ]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:57 PM, Lenny Jones said:

I know all about those bank codes and I read carefully the postings.  You contacted me privately and i have answered..  The "hiccups" go further afield and this - along with individual Immigration officer's levels of autonomy - is going to turn into large problems

i agree--some IO may well listen to an explanation and accept and others will likey, as is their discretion, simply reject them--unfortunately, it's very uncertain for many.

will they accept the new interbank via SMART as an international transfer??  has anyone discovered this?

also, in the past, it helped to be with bkk bank, is there another thai bank that is now better to be with so that the transfers are coded as international?

[SammyJ]

On 7/13/2019 at 3:49 AM, Puchaiyank said:

I would think a transaction copy from your home bank showing the money to Transferwise being withdrawn from your account would work to verify the origin of the transfer.

it would, but the trick is finding an IO when you apply for your extension that cares enough, or uses his/her discretion to listen, understand and accept.

[SammyJ]

On 7/13/2019 at 9:25 AM, pookiki said:

In thinking more about this issue, there would appear to me two very simple solutions:

 

1.  Banks could change the coding to state: 'International transfer using interbank SMART process' (or something similar to show that the transfer originated from overseas.)

 

2.  TransferWise could add an additional nominal fee for 'tagging' transfers to specific banks outside their 'partnering' bank institutions in a particular country.

 

There is a solution for every problem if people are willing to seek a solution.  All of this came about because three embassies were unwilling to negotiate with the Thai government on income affidavits and income verification letters. 

 

Hopefully these proposed solutions are viable and will be adopted!

i wouldn't count on it in our lifetimes--and many need help NOW, not in the future.

[SammyJ]

On 7/13/2019 at 10:41 AM, Nowisee said:

These proposals might seem like a very simple solution, but the "could" part of it is the weak link.
 

This has the potential to turn into a major issue for a lot of monthly income extension people.

 

What is your solution when they're sitting there at the immigration desk and the IO says denied, cannot.

I agree, the solution for the embassies to verify the name on the required pension document, just as the thai consulate did for the original visa is the solution I'd like to see.  

What the hell are the other embassies doing that makes it so their letters are still being accepted at immigration?  

 

 

i agree, not sure what it is at the other embassies that their letters are being accepted--my guess is that they are simply doing exactly as they did before, issuing the letters, not verifying it is truthful or accurate, and all goes along same as before--as, how could Thai immigration every really question or dispute the accuracy of the letter if the issuing embassy says, basically, it is accurate?  So. my guess is that these other embassies don't care--but the major embassies, UK, US, wanted to be more "honest" that they are NOT verifying the information--i guess it would have been much better to just continue as the others are, so as not to hurt its citizens--with all the lies the govts tell, this is the time/instance they choose to be honest??!

[SammyJ]

19 hours ago, chilly07 said:

After the UK embassy stopped issuing income letters In order to obtain a FTT entry I emailed Transferwise before putting them in funds and they routed everything via BB. Now they have set me up with a specific recipient always routed via BB and always shown as FTT. Has worked 12 times without fail. Yes the embassy should reverse its decision as the Danish embassy has done and confirm the validity of pension statements submitted to them!!! No data protection problems with that especially P60s!!!

this is good information--for your original email request to TW to use your bkk bank account--did you use any particular TW email address or just the contact within the site??  thanks for any further advice, as i want to try to get them to do this for me as well.

[Tanoshi]

21 minutes ago, SammyJ said:

i agree, not sure what it is at the other embassies that their letters are being accepted--my guess is that they are simply doing exactly as they did before, issuing the letters, not verifying it is truthful or accurate, and all goes along same as before--as, how could Thai immigration every really question or dispute the accuracy of the letter if the issuing embassy says, basically, it is accurate?  So. my guess is that these other embassies don't care--but the major embassies, UK, US, wanted to be more "honest" that they are NOT verifying the information--i guess it would have been much better to just continue as the others are, so as not to hurt its citizens--with all the lies the govts tell, this is the time/instance they choose to be honest??!

Quite simply because after the biggest 3 Embassies ended the service, TI issued an amended order accepting 'certified' Embassy Income letters'.

Albeit to late for many, TI appear to have finally accepted there is a legal difference between 'verified' and 'certified' in civilised Countries and what they previously requested was simply impossible for the Embassies to comply with.

[Tanoshi]

38 minutes ago, SammyJ said:

also, in the past, it helped to be with bkk bank, is there another thai bank that is now better to be with so that the transfers are coded as international?

At local bank branches, no.

 

All International transfers go to the HQ of the banks, before then being dispersed to your local branch.

[Nowisee]

45 minutes ago, SammyJ said:

i agree, not sure what it is at the other embassies that their letters are being accepted--my guess is that they are simply doing exactly as they did before, issuing the letters, not verifying it is truthful or accurate, and all goes along same as before--as, how could Thai immigration every really question or dispute the accuracy of the letter if the issuing embassy says, basically, it is accurate?  So. my guess is that these other embassies don't care--but the major embassies, UK, US, wanted to be more "honest" that they are NOT verifying the information--i guess it would have been much better to just continue as the others are, so as not to hurt its citizens--with all the lies the govts tell, this is the time/instance they choose to be honest??!

 

Thai Embassy or Consulate in UK/US, UK/US Embassy in Thailand or Thai Immigration are going to actually investigate and verify a person's pension or bank account balance.  "Hello, my name is Somchai, I am calling about Joe Blow".  "Did he work for the US Govt?"  "Does he have a bank account with you?"  "How much money is he making?"
We provide and swear to the documents by signing the affidavit.

ALL they have to do is verify the NAME on the the documents matches the applicants name.  

 
What the hell does immigration want?  What are the other embassies doing that makes thai immigration all warm and fuzzy?

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Nowisee

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

At local bank branches, no.

 

All International transfers go to the HQ of the banks, before then being dispersed to your local branch.

The first 3 digits of your account number is your branch location for Bangkok Bank and the money is deposited into that account number.  That account number/passbook is what gets the FTT if transfer handled by Bangkok Bank.

[Tanoshi]

19 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

The first 3 digits of your account number is your branch location for Bangkok Bank and the money is deposited into that account number.  That account number/passbook is what gets the FTT if transfer handled by Bangkok Bank.

Same for other bank branches, but that doesn't help with coding International transfers.

BKK are one the exceptions in notifying the routing of the transaction to the branch, provided it goes through their HQ. If the transaction goes through the TW partners of KK or TMB the routing isn't notified to BKK, hence a domestic or local transfer is recorded.

 

As an example using Kasikorn, it's of little relevance whether you transfer direct to them from your foreign bank, or it was routed through TW, from their KK partner account.

KK HQ don't forward the routing code to the local branches, so they are all coded as domestic or local transfers. The proof of International transfer has to come from the HQ of KK, either as credit receipts or a statement of International transfers.

 

If your with SCB and use TW, the transfers are always going to go through BKK, KK, or TMB.

[TigerandDog]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 12:47 PM, Tanoshi said:

Since when?

I just confirmed with a friend who I know makes a transfer on 8th of each month.

His July 8th transfer is coded as FTT in his BKK passbook, the transferring partner was BKK on his TW transfer receipt.

The advice I have is that TransferWise changed their Thai partnering bank on 1 July from BKK Bank to Kasikorn Bank. My friends who have been using transferwise for several months now have all said that their July payments are coded with a domestic transfer code. Apparently TransferWise have been inundated with complaints over this change, and their initial response was to call them prior to remitting your funds and they would ensure that the correct coding was used. One of my friends did call them and when given this response he said and how do you intend to be able to cope with the thousands of calls you will receive from Thailand each month. He suggested they get off their high horses and fix the problem they have created otherwise they will lose an enormous amount of clients very quickly.

[neverceasetobeamazed]

I transferred money on Friday 12th July 2019 via Transferwise.   My bank is BBL.  No problems as money arrived in my account today 15th July 2019.

[pontious]

10 minutes ago, neverceasetobeamazed said:

I transferred money on Friday 12th July 2019 via Transferwise.   My bank is BBL.  No problems as money arrived in my account today 15th July 2019.

For the majority of people that just want funds transferred to Thailand TW is no problem. However, many people want to use TW for the 65,000 baht per month option for immigration and for that they want it show as FTT - TW cannot, and will not guarantee that will happen. You can phone them, email them etc but if say Bangkok bank has some technical problem it will automatically reroute via TMB or KB and show as a domestic trasfer . TW has no control over that.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, pontious said:

For the majority of people that just want funds transferred to Thailand TW is no problem. However, many people want to use TW for the 65,000 baht per month option for immigration and for that they want it show as FTT - TW cannot, and will not guarantee that will happen. You can phone them, email them etc but if say Bangkok bank has some technical problem it will automatically reroute via TMB or KB and show as a domestic trasfer . TW has no control over that.

I sent TW an email last Thursday and got my reply this morning.

 

Since December 2018 I have been using TransferWise to send my pensions to my Bangkok bank account here in Thailand.. It has been fine until July 2019 when BBL changed the code from FTT for foreign Telex transfer to SMT.

Is this something to do with TW or Bangkok Bank?

Regards

Bill

 

Their reply

 

Izzat (TransferWise)

Jul 15, 04:29 CEST

Hey William,

Thanks for reaching out to us. Hope this email finds you well.

We've added a tag to your bank account indicated in the recipient list. Adding this tag will allow the system to as much as possible to route the payment only via Bangkok Bank.

However please take note that this doesn't guarantee that the payment will always go through via Bangkok Bank!

There are unforeseen scenarios where a certain partner might be facing a technical issue and the system will route the payment via another available partner to ensure same day delivery.

I hope this clarifies. Please feel free to reach out to us for anything else - we're here to help! 
Best regards,
Izzat

[Shibuya1]

I just did my last TransferWise transfer to Bangkok bank. It is coded as SMT. All previous transfers were coded  FTT. 

I went my branch a Big C extra with my passbook. I showed the teller all the previous transfers coded as FTT and asked why the newest one was coded SMT. She called the branch manager and he said SMT meant Smart transfer. He said they were regarded the same as a foreign transfer FTT and not to worry. He confirmed that when I get my letter from them next year all the SMT transfers will be included with the FTT transfers. 

 

Maybe someone can go another Bangkok branch or another bank to see if all the banks are on the same page. 

[MeowBundit]

My account was tagged and I get FTT after SMT. Crazy week 4 days talks and calls with TW to push this. I believe TW will do some setting to send direct to BBL. Even if their agents sometimes stupid, but looks like they start to understand, how much they will lost in case of every pensioner spend $270 US / year as fees to TW... 

[soisanuk]

1 hour ago, Shibuya1 said:

I just did my last TransferWise transfer to Bangkok bank. It is coded as SMT. All previous transfers were coded  FTT. 

I went my branch a Big C extra with my passbook. I showed the teller all the previous transfers coded as FTT and asked why the newest one was coded SMT. She called the branch manager and he said SMT meant Smart transfer. He said they were regarded the same as a foreign transfer FTT and not to worry. He confirmed that when I get my letter from them next year all the SMT transfers will be included with the FTT transfers. 

 

Maybe someone can go another Bangkok branch or another bank to see if all the banks are on the same page. 

A friend called me a couple days ago and said because his deposit was not coded FTT, he went to Bangkok Bank branch near Jomtien Immigration Office and showed them his TW receipt. He said they told him their records showed it as a domestic transfer and and there was "no way" they could include it as a foreign transfer in the letter they prepare for Immigration.  

 

Another friend who also had his transfer by TW sent through Kasikorn Bank, contacted Bangkok Bank and they gave him a "reference number" which they told him he could go to Kasikorn Bank and ask for a "Credit Advice" for that transaction to show that it was International.  However, he decided to send another transfer >65k baht via a domestic ACH from his US bank through Bangkok Bank's NY branch, which did arrive -- there are some other threads on thaivisa that note Bangkok Bank NY is still accepting domestic ACH transfers even though they said they would not do so after April 1, 2019.