Post TM 30 petition tightening of the rules?

[Thailand]

It appears that with the latest inormation coming from CW and Chiangmai regarding TM30 and travel within Thailand requiring submission of TM30 on return the rules are actually being tightened?

And a 3 year lease will allow non submission of TM 30, what a joke, the authorities. are having left hand right troubles and the bit in the middle is equally confused.

 

As are we, the ongoing immigration situation is farcical and sad at the same time.

[overherebc]

I always compared the petition to telling your RSM that Queen's Regulations were wrong and should be changed.

????????????

[FarFlungFalang]

If the petition guys could at their meetings could ask why there is such a huge discrepancy in information given out at different immigration offices and also the discrepancy in the interpretation that the TM30 is only to be filled out by owners and managers and not the travelling foreigners,sorting out these two things would go a long way to alleviating the angst felt by all concerned.

[Peterw42]

There is no question as to the "submission" of TM30s, its every foreigner, every stay, every place. That is carved in stone, in the immigration act, since 1979.

 

The only variation is local enforcement, a bit like motorbike helmets, we are all required to wear one, there are no exceptions, only varying levels of local enforcement.

 

A huge difference between "required by law" and  "asked for by local immigration".

 

Statements like "I am not required" because i have a yellow book, live in the same house for 10 years, own a house, are local enforcement issues, and as per CW etc, can change overnight. 

[mtls2005]

The regional petitions/dinners/radio interviews are worthless. All they do is expose the fiefdom's "rules" on a single day.

 

Simply ask for

 

clear rules governing the entire country

examples

consistent enforcement

 

 

Or get us all one of these...

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There is no question as to the "submission" of TM30s, its every foreigner, every stay, every place. That is carved in stone, in the immigration act, since 1979.

That depends upon how someone interprets section 38. That is one reason for differences between immigration  offices.

Also it seems there is a mix up between what section 37 and section 38.

Saying a stay away from home for more than 24 hours is not mentioned in section 38.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That depends upon how someone interprets section 38. That is one reason for differences between immigration  offices.

Personally speaking I think that all laws are deliberately left open to interpretation. It's the Thai way. God help the powers above if everything was straight forward and the laws were easily understood. It's all done deliberately.

[mikebell]

9 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Personally speaking I think that all laws are deliberately left open to interpretation. It's the Thai way. God help the powers above if everything was straight forward and the laws were easily understood. It's all done deliberately.

So the IO can interpret the laws the way you want, for a consideration.

[IvorBiggun2]

8 minutes ago, mikebell said:

So the IO can interpret the laws the way you want, for a consideration.

Thai laws seem to be written deliberately to confuse. You get 10 people to interpret a rule/law and you most likely have 10 different answers.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Personally speaking I think that all laws are deliberately left open to interpretation. It's the Thai way. God help the powers above if everything was straight forward and the laws were easily understood. It's all done deliberately.

IN most countries laws are somewhat confusing. Lawmakers cant be bothered with details. That's why lawyers exist. Even different lawyers can interpret laws differently. That's the reason an independent judiciary exists to resolve conflicts. Thailand, lacking all these legal infrastructure, IOs (administration) interpret them differently. 

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

There is no question as to the "submission" of TM30s, its every foreigner, every stay, every place. That is carved in stone, in the immigration act, since 1979

TI are further confusing the issue by quoting the TM30 requirement for both section 37 and 38.

Section 38 deals with the requirement of the TM30.

Section 37 does not.

 

When TI refer to the requirements of section 37 (4)

Quote

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such
alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time
of arrival.

The actual form for the alien to use in this situation is a TM28, not a TM30 as TI state.

FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS. (The Police station or official won't have a clue about this regulation).

That doesn't negate the fact the hotelier, or private residence you stay should still file a TM30..

 

So to recap and by the letter of the law, if I travel and stay in a Province for more than 24 hours, I should advise the local Police station using a TM28, the house master should file a TM30 with the local Immigration office. On return to my Province and registered address, the house master should file another TM30 at the local IO to advise my return.

 

 

 

 

 

[gunderhill]

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

TI are further confusing the issue by quoting the TM30 requirement for both section 37 and 38.

Section 38 deals with the requirement of the TM30.

Section 37 does not.

 

When TI refer to the requirements of section 37 (4)

The actual form for the alien to use in this situation is a TM28, not a TM30 as TI state.

FORM FOR ALIEN TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS. (The Police station or official won't have a clue about this regulation).

That doesn't negate the fact the hotelier, or private residence you stay should still file a TM30..

 

So to recap and by the letter of the law, if I travel and stay in a Province for more than 24 hours, I should advise the local Police station using a TM28, the house master should file a TM30 with the local Immigration office. On return to my Province and registered address, the house master should file another TM30 at the local IO to advise my return.

 

 

 

 

 

pathetic isnt it!

[Tanoshi]

25 minutes ago, gunderhill said:

pathetic isnt it!

If it came from an expat, you'd think it was a wind-up.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

if I travel and stay in a Province for more than 24 hours, I should advise the local Police station using a TM28, the house master should file a TM30 with the local Immigration office. On return to my Province and registered address, the house master should file another TM30 at the local IO to advise my return.

No. When referring to the 'police station on the TM28 they actually mean immigration office. If you look at the TM28 form you need the signature of the immigration officer. It does not say 'police officer'. Bottom right hand corner.

 

Quote

ใบรับการแจงยายที่พักหรือไปอยูตางจังหวัดเกิน ๒๔ ชั่วโมง RECEIPT OF NOTIFICATION สําหรับเจาหนาที่ FOR OFFICAL USE ONLY ขาพเจา ตําแหนง I Title ไดรับแจงการยายที่พักหรือไปอยูตางจังหวัดเกิด ๒๔ ชั่วโมงของ Have received notice of change of address from สัญชาติ ไวแลวเมื่อวันที่ เดือน พ.ศ. เวลา น. Nationality on Date Month Year hours ลงชื่อ พนักงานเจาหนาที่ Signature Immigration office

 

[holy cow cm]

No they will get all of the crap attitudes back in their faces. They want to treat us this way, then get prepared to have some big negativity come straight back at you. It is almost bordering on hatred now. 

[IvorBiggun2]

3 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

It is almost bordering on hatred now.

I always thought it was based on their dislike of farangs etc. After all it says in the Nation Anthem "Thailand is for Thais". And that's the point they keep trying to get across.

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

No. When referring to the 'police station on the TM28 they actually mean immigration office. If you look at the TM28 form you need the signature of the immigration officer. It does not say 'police officer'. Bottom right hand corner.

 

 

That's your interpretation.

If they meant Immigration office, why not state so, as they do in section 37-5.

What about the Provinces that have no Immigration office.

Immigration is a division of the Police.

A Police officer is also a 'competent official' (Section 37 - 2).

 

The problem is the Immigration Act doesn't fit the current situation.

It's akin to having a 2019 Ford Fiesta, but using a 1979 repair manual to identify an issue.

 

[IvorBiggun2]

The police station in the village where I live do not have any official stamps so they once told me.

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That's your interpretation.

I know, and your interpretation is completely different to mine and the same applies to the next person and the next person and the next...……………………...

[holy cow cm]

33 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I always thought it was based on their dislike of farangs etc. After all it says in the Nation Anthem "Thailand is for Thais". And that's the point they keep trying to get across.

Racism is alive. But the dislike is definitely growing more disdain towards their rules treating foreigners like criminals 

[holy cow cm]

But unfortunately the only thing everyone can do is do what they say. Just can hope they are told to change the law

[robertson468]

3 hours ago, mikebell said:

So the IO can interpret the laws the way you want, for a consideration.

Never been asked for "a consideration from an IO" in 15 years.

[overherebc]

I wonder how many of complainers actually do go away for weekends many times a year.

Seems a few are on the lines of 'this means if I travel around Thailand and stay with friends for a couple of nights, say 4 or 5, it will mean many TM30's etc.

Lots of different situations can be made up and posted to make things look complicated and difficult.

Just saying.

[justin case]

criminals simple do not follow the rules and will not be tracked

 

but you and I are easy targets with fines to be given or you don't get your extension = EXTORTION, but thai language that might mean a lot of things

 

fewer tourists =  cash to be made on the honest long stay TOURISTS

 

there is no EXPAT community in thailand, we are all tourists, the short time (lol) or the long stayers

 

no rights except to follow those moron rules or pay

[zydeco]

My understanding is that the current head of immigration is due to retire in October. It's entirely possible that had there been no petition that the TM 30 may well have disappeared as an issue with the next head of Immigration. That is what happened with the questionnaire they come up with a few years ago that wanted a photo and a list of all the places you frequented and spent your time. The petition was a mistake. Immigration will bear down now. And the guy who started the petition? No skin off his back. He has permanent residency, he says, and doesn't have to deal with the problems he's created.

[Tanoshi]

55 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The police station in the village where I live do not have any official stamps so they once told me.

I know, and your interpretation is completely different to mine and the same applies to the next person and the next person and the next...……………………...

Agreed and from IO to IO also.

 

[Skeptic7]

5 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Personally speaking I think that all laws are deliberately left open to interpretation. It's the Thai way. God help the powers above if everything was straight forward and the laws were easily understood. It's all done deliberately.

While I get ya...You're giving them WAY too much credit on the "thinking" and "intelligence" parts. 

[jacko45k]

39 minutes ago, zydeco said:

My understanding is that the current head of immigration is due to retire in October.

Thought he was relatively new, having been appointed after Big Jok was moved on.

[Guderian]

The TM30 rules as summarised in this poster from Immigration mention submitting a TM30 when returning from travel to another province, but there's nothing at all about submitting one when you return from an overseas visit.

 

 

[elviajero]

36 minutes ago, zydeco said:

My understanding is that the current head of immigration is due to retire in October. It's entirely possible that had there been no petition that the TM 30 may well have disappeared as an issue with the next head of Immigration. That is what happened with the questionnaire they come up with a few years ago that wanted a photo and a list of all the places you frequented and spent your time. The petition was a mistake. Immigration will bear down now. And the guy who started the petition? No skin off his back. He has permanent residency, he says, and doesn't have to deal with the problems he's created.

The doubt the 'petition' has made a difference either way, and the TM.30 enforcement has nothing to do with the "current head of immigration", or his predecessors. The enforcement comes from the top (IC/MoI), and goes back several years. 

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, Guderian said:

The TM30 rules as summarised in this poster from Immigration mention submitting a TM30 when returning from travel to another province, but there's nothing at all about submitting one when you return from an overseas visit.

 

 

Section 37 has nothing to do with TM.30 reporting (section 38).

 

However, if you leave the country your stay ends. When you return the address reporting laws kick in as if it were your first ever visit. A TM.30 is without question required -- in law -- if you leave and return to the country.