Disgraced U.S. financier Jeffrey Epstein dies by suicide - media reports

[usviphotography]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If it is a conspiracy, then the most likely leader of it would be Trump himself. Why didn't the Attorney General, William Barr, take special measures to protect Epstein? Are you aware that Epstein died while in custody in a Federal house of detention?

Israel wields enormous influence over Trump and it is a distinct possibility that Jared Kushner's father was part of Les Wexner's Mega Group. So I readily accept the theory that Trump may have been ordered or persuaded to stand down on Epstein. But Leader? Come on. Trump isn't even in control of his own White House. There is no way he would be brought in to the loop for an operation like this even they did think they could trust him.  

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Israel wields enormous influence over Trump and it is a distinct possibility that Jared Kushner's father was part of Les Wexner's Mega Group. So I readily accept the theory that Trump may have been ordered or persuaded to stand down on Epstein. But Leader? Come on. Trump isn't even in control of his own White House. There is no way he would be brought in to the loop for an operation like this even they did think they could trust him.  

There are many fine conspiracy theories on both sides.

Go bullish on tin foil hats! 

[Becker]

For a more factual approach to the whole matter:

 

Here's what we know, and what's next

[usviphotography]

3 minutes ago, Becker said:

For a more factual approach to the whole matter:

 

Here's what we know, and what's next

Yeah, "factual". It is totally normal for the most famous prisoner in all of America and who had dirt on dozens if not hundreds of the most powerful leaders and businessmen in the world to be left completely alone to "kill himself". That is just how things work, guys. How could the richest and most powerful nation in the world be expected to keep the most important prisoner in their entire system alive? 

[observer90210]

Suicide in one of the most secured federal facilities in the US ? Right....

 

....but it is well known that organising orgies with underage sex partners,  for powerful current/former politicians or well known crown princes, can be very hazardous to one's health. ...

 

....it would have been nice to have the other pigs in politics or with crowns on their heads, have their pedophilia be publicly exposed ...

[bristolboy]

32 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

Israel wields enormous influence over Trump and it is a distinct possibility that Jared Kushner's father was part of Les Wexner's Mega Group. So I readily accept the theory that Trump may have been ordered or persuaded to stand down on Epstein. But Leader? Come on. Trump isn't even in control of his own White House. There is no way he would be brought in to the loop for an operation like this even they did think they could trust him.  

Definitely Barr then. After all, he lied about the Mueller Report, persuaded George H.W. Bush to pardon proactively Irangate conspirators. Right up his alley.

[usviphotography]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Definitely Barr then. 

This wouldn't be run through Justice. It would be the Intelligence Agencies running something like this. Whether the US Intelligence Agencies were involved or it was just foreign intelligence agencies operating on their own is something we need to find out. But this case demonstrates the unequal footing of Intelligence vs. Justice better than anything. Barr taking personal custody of Epstein would have been the smart move, but it would have been extraordinary and there really isn't a legal mechanism for it. Securing Ghislaine Maxwell would be the priority right now, but again, Justice is hamstrung in how fast and effectively they can move. They have come out with a formal indictment against her, then they have to find her, then they have to go through the long process of extraditing her, then they have to somehow manage to keep her alive once they do get their hands on her which they obviously failed to do with Epstein. Intelligence Agencies, on the other hand, simply have to find her and kill her. So who do you think is likely to win that race?

 

 

[RJRS1301]

21 minutes ago, usviphotography said:

This wouldn't be run through Justice. It would be the Intelligence Agencies running something like this. Whether the US Intelligence Agencies were involved or it was just foreign intelligence agencies operating on their own is something we need to find out. But this case demonstrates the unequal footing of Intelligence vs. Justice better than anything. Barr taking personal custody of Epstein would have been the smart move, but it would have been extraordinary and there really isn't a legal mechanism for it. Securing Ghislaine Maxwell would be the priority right now, but again, Justice is hamstrung in how fast and effectively they can move. They have come out with a formal indictment against her, then they have to find her, then they have to go through the long process of extraditing her, then they have to somehow manage to keep her alive once they do get their hands on her which they obviously failed to do with Epstein. Intelligence Agencies, on the other hand, simply have to find her and kill her. So who do you think is likely to win that race?

 

 

Way too obvious for her to die or disappear, more likely she will suffer a stroke or other catastrophic event

 

[phkauf]

Forget all the crazy intelligence agency theories, it is quite easy to kill someone in jail. There are plenty of people willing to do the deed for money sent to their relatives. The NY Post had a story about how corrupt the guards are in that facility, where a friend of John Gotti claimed he would eat steak from Peter Lugers whenever he wanted (conveniently just over the bridge from the jail). Prison guards are not very well paid and as G. Gordon Liddy once said about prison guards - they're stupid, usually have failed the police and fire exams so this is what they end up doing.

Epstein had plenty of dirt on lots of important people - anyone of which could have spent probably less than $100K to have him killed.

This story is far from over and should be quite entertaining.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, usviphotography said:

This wouldn't be run through Justice. It would be the Intelligence Agencies running something like this. Whether the US Intelligence Agencies were involved or it was just foreign intelligence agencies operating on their own is something we need to find out. But this case demonstrates the unequal footing of Intelligence vs. Justice better than anything. Barr taking personal custody of Epstein would have been the smart move, but it would have been extraordinary and there really isn't a legal mechanism for it. Securing Ghislaine Maxwell would be the priority right now, but again, Justice is hamstrung in how fast and effectively they can move. They have come out with a formal indictment against her, then they have to find her, then they have to go through the long process of extraditing her, then they have to somehow manage to keep her alive once they do get their hands on her which they obviously failed to do with Epstein. Intelligence Agencies, on the other hand, simply have to find her and kill her. So who do you think is likely to win that race?

 

 

Right, it would be anything as long as the present administration is not involved.

[Krataiboy]

11 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I have an attorney friend in California, who knows a guy who is representing a plaintiff against Epstein for financial fraud. How accurate this description of events are, is anyone's guess. But, it sure makes for interesting reading. There is no doubt that he was assassinated, and the only question is, is there more to this than the potential squealing he could have done, against very powerful people? Here is an excerpt from his note to me about this. He is extremely credible, and not a conspiracy theorist on any level. Very down to earth, and fairly conservative.

 

I did not know you were following this. I know lots about it as I have been working with attorneys involved in this. Yes he was more than likely murdered. The feds may have been involved, but if they were they were not alone. The reason Acosta approved the deal in Florida years ago was that he was directed to by the intelligence community. About a week or so ago Acosta came out and said that and that he had the proof. Suddenly he went quiet. Where is the proof? Why would the DOJ etc tell Acosta to take the sweetheart deal?? Think about it.

 

The main attorney, *****, I talked to is representing a person that was bilked out of 1 1/2 billion dollars by a group of people one of whom is the CEO of Victoria Secret. **** has filed a law suit and conducted several depositions, motions and has uncovered many documents. Flight logs etc. Much to ***** surprise the CEO was a frequent flyer of Epstein and the island. It is apparent from the stuff he has discovered that Epstein was heavily involved with Mossad. That’s right the Jewish intelligence underground. That Bibi. and they have received billions through Epstein. Blackmail of very high up world leaders among others. Our intelligence is in bed with Mossad. It has been for many years. They do not want this exposed so now you know why Acosta was told to take the Epstein deal and I am thinking why Acosta suddenly went quiet after announcing he had the proof. 

 

So now Epstein is murdered and my thinking is that Mossad with our our intelligence agency was involved. Of course we cannot rule out very powerful and rich people could have also been involved. 

The Mossad link is particularly intriguing, as Epstein's former girlfriend and alleged procurer, the elusive Ghislaine Maxwell, is the daughter of the disgraced former newspaper tycoon who was strongly rumoured to have Mossad connections. 

 

When Robert Maxwell disappeared from the luxury yacht he had named after his daughter, it was initially assumed he had committed suicide by jumping into the sea rather than face charges of plundering his newspaper group's pension fund.

 

However, as with Jeffrey Epstein, there were competing theories that he had been murdered or deliberately "disappeared" (in Maxwell's with the help of an Israeli submarine!) to live a new life under an assumed identity.

 

Eventually, "Cap'n Bob's" body was discovered floating in the Atlantic and a post mortem and inquest determined he had suffered a heart attack and accidentally drowned. However, the spot where he was found was so far off the route taken by Ghislaine that rumours of foul play persist to this day.

 

[rabas]

24 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

The Mossad link is particularly intriguing, as Epstein's former girlfriend and alleged procurer, the elusive Ghislaine Maxwell, is the daughter of the disgraced former newspaper tycoon who was strongly rumoured to have Mossad connections. 

 

When Robert Maxwell disappeared from the luxury yacht he had named after his daughter, it was initially assumed he had committed suicide by jumping into the sea rather than face charges of plundering his newspaper group's pension fund.

 

However, as with Jeffrey Epstein, there were competing theories that he had been murdered or deliberately "disappeared" (in Maxwell's with the help of an Israeli submarine!) to live a new life under an assumed identity.

 

Eventually, "Cap'n Bob's" body was discovered floating in the Atlantic and a post mortem and inquest determined he had suffered a heart attack and accidentally drowned. However, the spot where he was found was so far off the route taken by Ghislaine that rumours of foul play persist to this day.

 

Fascinating write up in Wiki,  do read the section on Israeli connections:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell

 

To wet the whistle:  The British Foreign Office suspected that Maxwell was a secret agent of a foreign government, possibly a double agent or a triple agent, and "a thoroughly bad character and almost certainly financed by Russia." He had known links to the British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), to the KGB, and to the Israeli intelligence service Mossad.[42] Six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence services attended Maxwell's funeral in Israel.

 

... and connected to Epstein via Ghislaine.  Epstein the simple perv with high connections making money from nowhere never made sense.  How fast can team blue link the Russia connection to Trump.

 

[JamesBlond]

The problem with the conspiracy theory is that it supposes that murder has been committed to cover up a lesser crime - murder in a high-security place no less. There may not have been a camera in the actual cell but there will be lots of other cameras in the vicinity and the certainty that the murder would be investigated in detail - unless we are to suppose the prison governor and all the guards also had a vested interest in having someone murdered on their watch. Don't be daft. The whole supposition is unstable. Such a murder would inevitably be solved by one leak or another, and then the whole cadre would be in even deeper sh*t than before.

 

The guy killed himself because he knew he was finished - you can see it in his eyes - and also probably to protect genuine friendships. And who can blame him given the current levels of hysteria on these issues?

[Jingthing]

Most anyone in his shoes would have wanted to off themselves.

Already old.

Used to unspeakable luxuries and decadence.

Now in a total sheithole prison.

Looking forward to trials, convictions, and life in prison.

Who in their right mind would want to live in that situation?

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, rabas said:

Fascinating write up in Wiki,  do read the section on Israeli connections:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maxwell

 

To wet the whistle:  The British Foreign Office suspected that Maxwell was a secret agent of a foreign government, possibly a double agent or a triple agent, and "a thoroughly bad character and almost certainly financed by Russia." He had known links to the British Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), to the KGB, and to the Israeli intelligence service Mossad.[42] Six serving and former heads of Israeli intelligence services attended Maxwell's funeral in Israel.

 

... and connected to Epstein via Ghislaine.  Epstein the simple perv with high connections making money from nowhere never made sense.  How fast can team blue link the Russia connection to Trump.

 

That's why you have to be careful with Wikipedia. That quote is an unsubstantiated quote from the Telegraph.

[rabas]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

That's why you have to be careful with Wikipedia. That quote is an unsubstantiated quote from the Telegraph.

Granted, it's opinion anyway, but the author attributes to a paper released by the foreign office.  The second half of the quote is from Gordon Thomas, Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad, (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1999), p. 23).

 

What does it mean about Epstein? Don't have a clue except he was not your ordinary pedo. It's also interesting that Maxwell and George Soros have similar childhood backgrounds of being born Jewish and surviving Nazi Germany, maybe  the hardship alters the soul.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

The FBI and NY Police are in the process of searching Epstein’s properties on his private island.

 

The investigation continues and is being shared with the NY police, who are not under control of the US AG.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, rabas said:

Granted, it's opinion anyway, but the author attributes to a paper released by the foreign office.  The second half of the quote is from Gordon Thomas, Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad, (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1999), p. 23).

 

What does it mean about Epstein? Don't have a clue except he was not your ordinary pedo. It's also interesting that Maxwell and George Soros have similar childhood backgrounds of being born Jewish and surviving Nazi Germany, maybe  the hardship alters the soul.

 

Yes, unsubstantiated opinion.

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, rabas said:

Granted, it's opinion anyway, but the author attributes to a paper released by the foreign office.  The second half of the quote is from Gordon Thomas, Gideon's Spies: The Secret History of the Mossad, (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1999), p. 23).

 

What does it mean about Epstein? Don't have a clue except he was not your ordinary pedo. It's also interesting that Maxwell and George Soros have similar childhood backgrounds of being born Jewish and surviving Nazi Germany, maybe  the hardship alters the soul.

 

Oh please many of our relatives survived the holocaust, and we did not become child abusers

 

Technically he was a child abuser, sex trafficker

I am in NO WAY defending or underplaying his history, but there is a strict legal and medical definition of paedophilia and paedophile

 

 

Definition of pedophilia

 

: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object specifically : a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pedophilia

 

The word pedophilia comes from the Greek παῖς, παιδός (paîs, paidós), meaning "child", and φιλία (philía), "friendly love" or "friendship".^[20]Pedophilia is used for individuals with a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children aged 13 or younger.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

[rabas]

25 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

Oh please many of our relatives survived the holocaust, and we did not become child abusers

Read before you post. Sorry, have to correct you.

 

I made a comparison between Soros and Maxwell being born Jewish and surviving the Nazis. I did not suggest, hint, or elude that either man was a paedophile, nor did I include Epstein who was American born. A period in English represents a full stop.

 

In my view life's hardships make us strong, Albert Einstein is another Jewish person from the same era, he saved the world.

 

[RJRS1301]

4 minutes ago, rabas said:

Read before you post. Sorry, have to correct you.

 

I made a comparison between Soros and Maxwell being born Jewish and surviving the Nazis. I did not suggest, hint, or elude that either man was a paedophile, nor did I include Epstein who was American born. A period in English represents a full stop.

 

In my view life's hardships make us strong, Albert Einstein is another Jewish person from the same era, he saved the world.

 

your post

What does it mean about Epstein? Don't have a clue except he was not your ordinary pedo.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

your post

What does it mean about Epstein? Don't have a clue except he was not your ordinary pedo.

Not a subject I or anyone I know professes any expert knowledge in.

 

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, rabas said:

Read before you post. Sorry, have to correct you.

 

I made a comparison between Soros and Maxwell being born Jewish and surviving the Nazis. I did not suggest, hint, or elude that either man was a paedophile, nor did I include Epstein who was American born. A period in English represents a full stop.

 

In my view life's hardships make us strong, Albert Einstein is another Jewish person from the same era, he saved the world.

 

Since you wanted to switch topic, you should have started a new paragraph after mentioning Epstein, before Maxwell and Soros. Just a small addition since you found the need to educate someone else on the meaning of a period.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.  

 

[canuckamuck]

9 hours ago, JamesBlond said:

unless we are to suppose the prison governor and all the guards also had a vested interest in having someone murdered on their watch. Don't be daft. The whole supposition is unstable. Such a murder would inevitably be solved by one leak or another, and then the whole cadre would be in even deeper sh*t than before.

 

Everybody has vested interests that can be leveraged. Money, threats against you family, threats against your reputation...

And leaks happen all the time and are ignored and forgotten about in the next news cycle. The cadre is never in deep sh*t.

[Ramen087]

Back to Mr. Epstein... "Yeah, we were supposed to keep a eye on him. But, you know, he was off the 24/7 suicide watch...wait, was he still on? I guess we didn't know that... But we only took our eyes off him, you know, for a short while... Gee, and now he's gone, it really is an unfortunate event, and a black eye for our esteemed institution... We'll have to do better going forward." After a pause to indicate the seriousness of the situation ---> "I'm sure a full inquiry will take place, we'll discover the lapses in communication and coverage, and implement better policies. And I assure you this: no stone will be left unturned."

 

and some lackey will get reprimanded or fired, and it'll all go away... 

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Looking forward to trials, convictions, and life in prison.

Who in their right mind would want to live in that situation?

In the USA, there's always a chance of a deal.

If he could incriminate Trump, the liberals would have given him a deal.

If he could incriminate the Clintons, Trump would have given him a deal.

 

Epstein just took too long negotiating the deal, and they all got fed up with him, and took the easy option.

It's not as if he was a murderer (many have done deals), and it's never been suggested he was a pedophile.

100 years ago, what he was doing would have been considered completely normal, if slightly distasteful.

Today, having sex with a 14 year old is considered a hanging offence, but your great grandmother was probably married with kids at that age.

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

Today, having sex with a 14 year old is considered a hanging offence,

Depends on what society you live in, even if you're a male or female, all effect the penalties (or lack of) imposed.

[JamesBlond]

2 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Everybody has vested interests that can be leveraged. Money, threats against you family, threats against your reputation...

And leaks happen all the time and are ignored and forgotten about in the next news cycle. The cadre is never in deep sh*t.

Well, there you go. The more you think about it, the more you have to make the conspiracy more elaborate, more unstable, more improbable, just to make it work.

 

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they are too entertaining - you want them to be true, you are aching for them to be true, precisely because the dull, prosaic explanation - that he killed himself because he was depressed and to protect his friends - is far more likely.

[Andrew Dwyer]

UPDATE:

The medical examiner went on lunch break and Epstein went and cremated himself !!!


( allegedly )