TM30: “It’s really not that hard”, immigration official tells foreigners

[transam]

7 minutes ago, graemeaylward said:

The link to the android app works, once the app shows on play store, it says it is not available in your country! Thailand is my country, I live here! Why would it be needed anywhere else!


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Your IP (VPN) shows Nigeria....????

[FarFlungFalang]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

In theory there will be a TM30 report from any place the terrorist stays. TM30 isnt the terrorist doing a report its the property he stays in doing a report.

Ok that would give his location at that particular time I wonder how that they figure out he is a terrorist from the TM30 even if he filled it out himself? How does that keep me safe when he blows something up?Rhetorical questions. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by FarFlungFalang
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[Odisan]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

...Unfortunately though it seemed like they were walking on eggshells with the officials there, with the younger ones deflecting and the general practically seething at times.

In all honesty, lamyai3, was it ever going to be anything else?

We all know Thai society and 'how it works'. Critical thinking, questioning those above you, loss of face, etc.

My own thoughts are that opening the discussion/raising the questions were never going to see a dramatic u-turn or change of policy - that's not how it works in Thailand. Given the above, especially. Not least because no-one likes being put on the spot, especially people who aren't used to it, and in doing so may only effect an adverse result.

 

However, opening a dialogue tomorrow doesn't mean it won't influence what happens tomorrow. 

On that, we'll have to see.

[Sydebolle]

Did the question of "what, if the landlord refuses to do it?" arise and what was the answer by the boys in brown? 

[Odisan]

14 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I also have never been asked to do a TM30 nor have I volunteered to do one,I do how ever easily recognise a breech of human rights when I see one and threatening to deport some one for not paying for the landlords non compliance is extortion and should be exposed to the international media with headlines ten foot tall (that's 3.05 meters).

Me neither. 

 

But, despite my attempts at light-hearted humour around all of my comments, I try and look at 'thing's objectively. As you know, that means from both, or all, sides.

Given the reporting that we need to do here in Thailand, I don't get the point of it. Hence why I signed the petition and support opening a dialogue.

[DannyCarlton]

Just now, Sydebolle said:

Did the question of "what, if the landlord refuses to do it?" arise and what was the answer by the boys in brown? 

They laughed nervously. Didn't give full answers to anything. They were asked if the 90 day report was nessesary and what purpose it served. Much shuffling of feet and zero response.

 

From the POV of gaining knowledge about the issues from the powers that be, the meeting was of no use whatsoever. The General turned up very late, the meeting had started without him, then proceeded to force his assistant to answer on his behalf, occasionaly wispering, hand over mouth, to his assistant. Answered very few questions himself and the only by obfuscation. It was clear that he thought that the assembled farang rabble should be grateful for his mere attendance without expecting him to actually having to answer questions. He actually said, at one point, that he was bored with answering the same questions and if anyone asked a question that he had alreaqdy answered, he was outta there.

 

Arrogance and distain in the extreme, but you can expect no more from a Thai General

[Felt 35]

It’s really not that hard - no its not, but its restricting law abiding non-immigrants to move freely wherever you want following the law and with responsibility.

[Prairieboy]

22 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

That is a supporting argument for TM30s, imagine if the place the bombers stayed at did a TM30, immigration would have then known their whereabouts. The whole idea behind a TM30 is so people are on the radar no matter where they stay. 

If every property owner is living in mortal fear of being fined etc, they will report a bomber in residence.

If Somcai is a (Thai) terrorist from Yala come to visit his brother in Bangkok to set up a bomb making operation in the spare bedroom, the landlord, (his brother), the registered owner of the home is not required to submit a TM-30 since both are Thai citizens.  They merrily carryout their terrorist activities - no foreigners involved!  This is a much more likely scenario and this is where the police should be focusing their efforts.  Foreigners residing in Thailand on long term visas have already been screened, including a police background check.  Do the authorities believe foreigners become terrorists and threaten the national security, once they live in the country for 5, 10, 15 or more years?  Or else why would they want to track our movements within the country? 

 

My Thai wife lived in Canada for 25 years and never once, after her original entry, had to report to an immigration official.  She was properly vetted before entering Canada.  We moved several times in 3 different provinces with no requirement to report her whereabouts, or her address, to immigration. 

 

In my experience the more corrupt a country; and I have lived and worked in many; is the more suspicious the authorities are!

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Prairieboy said:

If Somcai is a (Thai) terrorist from Yala come to visit his brother in Bangkok to set up a bomb making operation in the spare bedroom, the landlord, (his brother), the registered owner of the home is not required to submit a TM-30 since both are Thai citizens.  They merrily carryout their terrorist activities - no foreigners involved!  This is a much more likely scenario and this is where the police should be focusing their efforts.  Foreigners residing in Thailand on long term visas have already been screened, including a police background check.  Do the authorities believe foreigners become terrorists and threaten the national security, once they live in the country for 5, 10, 15 or more years?  Or else why would they want to track our movements within the country? 

 

My Thai wife lived in Canada for 25 years and never once, after her original entry, had to report to an immigration official.  She was properly vetted before entering Canada.  We moved several times in 3 different provinces with no requirement to report her whereabouts, or her address, to immigration. 

 

In my experience the more corrupt a country; and I have lived and worked in many; is the more suspicious the authorities are!

The TM30 system isnt about catching Thai criminals, whether they make all the bombs or none of the bombs. 

Without a TM30 system a foreign terrorist can blow up a shopping mall then take up residence in the hotel next door to police headquarters. 

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Without a TM30 system a foreign terrorist can blow up a shopping mall then take up residence in the hotel next door to police headquarters. 

The hotel would automatically submit his TM30. Doesn't explain why EXpats who have registered their pemanent residence need to keep completing TM30s.

Edited August 17, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[Salerno]

1 hour ago, zyphodb said:

I know that...

 

   The point was, the permissions that it wanted. ie. see everything on your phone, listen to your calls, take over your phone and make calls, take photos/videos without your permission...

How else do you expect it to work? No need to exaggerate either.

 

[RBOP]

I think there should be a rule a person can post no more than 5 posts in any one forum discussion. This forum is so full of nonsense posters now its hard to find anything meaningful.  

[metisdead]

Some off topic trolling posts and the replies have been removed. 

[rumak]

On 8/16/2019 at 5:50 AM, mok199 said:

Thais do not take criticism well

Funny, I think the same can be said of the usual bunch that make the most posts on ThaiVisa. 

And hardly any Thais in that group .

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, Odisan said:

Me neither. 

 

But, despite my attempts at light-hearted humour around all of my comments, I try and look at 'thing's objectively. As you know, that means from both, or all, sides.

Given the reporting that we need to do here in Thailand, I don't get the point of it. Hence why I signed the petition and support opening a dialogue.

Yeah sometimes I get banned because my attempts at humour are to heavily disguised.I actually don't even have a problem with the TM30 because it's for landlords/housemasters and sometimes the government need to locate foreigners for various reasons even reasons not involving national security, I do have a problem with extortion,if any immigration official wants to deport me for not paying someone else's fine then go right ahead and see how that goes.What an absurd thing to try, and people are just complying with it and so become complicit and now it's accepted as the law!It's not the bloody law it's EXTORTION.You can't just go around deporting people for somebody else's non compliance with the law.That kind of thing just is just out bloody rageous.

[FarFlungFalang]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

It doesnt,  TM30 isn't a crime prevention or crime solving tool. Its a keeping tabs on foreigners tool, in case there is a need to track them down.

If Interpol rings up immigration and says keep a look out for Fred smith we think he may be up to no good, they know where to find Fred, maybe even before he gets up to no good. If Fred smith becomes Thailand most wanted, his movement in Thailand becomes very restricted if 90% of accommodation will report his whereabouts.  Without a TM30 report, Fred wont have any valid immigration documents and is further restricted from most things in Thailand. Fred may get arrested for something as menial as not having a license, because he didn't have immigration documents, because he couldn't do a TM30.

 

Yeah that's fair enough.I better tell Fred next time i see him to be careful because they might be on to him.So the TM30 doesn't really keep us safe as immigration keeps telling us it just "might" help locate him after he becomes Thailand's most wanted apart from stopping Fred coming further heinous crimes against Thais and visiting foreigners.Like I've said before I don't think being able to locate foreigners is a bad thing but threatening to deport them because someone else refuses to comply is something I don't support.

[Salerno]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

... no need to have any system to monitor the whereabouts of foreigners.

Now you're getting it 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Salerno

[Odisan]

1 hour ago, Prairieboy said:

In my experience the more corrupt a country; and I have lived and worked in many; is the more suspicious the authorities are!

Well, duh!

I come from a Western country. They're, SUPPOSEDLY, less corrupt. They're not, of course, they just do it in different ways.

[Odisan]

I also note that the TM30 only applies to foreigners who've been in Thailand longer than 90-days.

Can you imagine... the bad guys, the hoodlums, the terrorists, potential or otherwise, have been in the Kingdom for 1 day less than the full 3 months (based on a 30-day month, for ease and purposes of levity) - their Google calendar has let them down...

It's the dawn of their 89th day...

Authorities be like, "Shhhhhhh... don't tell them, but 1 more day and we've got 'em! Tomorrow, they've got to register."

 

Triumph!

 

[Burma Bill]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

Correct - it is not for someone to ask you to complete it.  Ignorance of the law is not their problem.  It sounds as if you never stay in Thailand for more than 90 days, in which case you have not visited your local immigration office to do a 90 day report.  That being the case, it is not up to immigration at border control to tell you to do a TM30.

 

Now, if you stay longer than 90 days and visit your local IO to do a 90 day report, good luck with that, because they'll want to know why you haven't been reporting your address to them after each trip ????

Sorry, but I do notify Immigration of my address every time I re-enter Thailand (where I have been living for nearly 20 years) on the TM6 I complete more or less every month. 90 day reports are irrelevant to me. When I renewed my retirement visa extension and multiple re-entry permit back in March I did not complete a TM30. I presented a letter from my landlady confirming I was a tenant along with a copy of her ID and the house book which were accepted by my local Immigration Office. I have lived at my address for 5 years now. What happens in March 2020 remains to be seen but I might be resident in Cambodia by then.

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

Sorry, but I do notify Immigration of my address every time I re-enter Thailand (where I have been living for nearly 20 years) on the TM6 I complete more or less every month. 90 day reports are irrelevant to me. When I renewed my retirement visa extension and multiple re-entry permit back in March I did not complete a TM30. I presented a letter from my landlady confirming I was a tenant along with a copy of her ID and the house book which were accepted by my local Immigration Office. I have lived at my address for 5 years now. What happens in March 2020 remains to be seen but I might be resident in Cambodia by then.

 

 

Without stating which local office your comments have no purpose. Like you, I don't report and Buriram immigration have said I don't need to...... other offices vary and it may be useful to know which ones.

 

Don't go to Sihanoukville....

[Burma Bill]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Without stating which local office your comments have no purpose. Like you, I don't report and Buriram immigration have said I don't need to...... other offices vary and it may be useful to know which ones.

 

Don't go to Sihanoukville....

My local IO, like yours, is in Isaan (Khon Kaen). I know Cambodia well and I always avoid Sihanoukville like the plague - thanks for the advice.

[Rimmer]

More off topic about terrorists and shrine bomber removed

[Mel52]

The insurgency in southern Thailand is probably one of the reasons why they have had an address reporting system for God knows how long definitely longer than I’ve lived in Thailand and I’ve only been here for 5 years. Thailand has honestly been trying to get rid of all the foreign criminals as well and it really looks like they have been making a good legitimate effort on that as well.

I really don’t want some expat group talking to immigration on my behalf and demanding that they stop doing things because they definitely do not represent me. They can hire all the lawyers they want but they are not going to change anything at immigration or anything at all in the Thai government. In case they haven’t noticed this isn’t exactly a Democracy at the moment and even if it was we foreigners here don’t get a vote because we aren’t citizens no matter how long you’ve lived here and I’m honestly surprised that immigration even took this group seriously enough to even have a formal meeting with them.

If I was in charge of Thai immigration I probably would have just told them to go fill out a comment card or something. I’m surprised immigration even gave this group the time of day.

If anything they are just drawing to much attention to the rest of us who just want to live our lives, follow the rules and go with the program because they really are not asking us to do very much to live here legally and it really isn’t that hard at all reporting your address and neither is the rest of the paperwork we have to do most of which is just once a year. They should be happy that Thailand has a good immigration system in place because if they didn’t then anyone would be able to just come here and just stay which I think is probably what some of these people want is no rules at all just anarchy I guess. This is one of those things where I would like to tell immigration “hey those guys don’t represent me and I’m not in their little club” but I seriously doubt that my local immigration office here in Korat even knows about that petition they filed at their headquarters because it’s probably no where near as significant as they think it is, people can huff and puff about it on Thai Visas all they want but it doesn’t change a thing. They think immigration is listening to them just because they had a formal meeting with immigration in Bangkok or wherever but if anything they’re just creating a scenario where it’s immigration against us which is definitely not the case but they are creating that appearance and this group needs to stop that because it could potentially cause some REAL problems. The attorneys they apparently hired they know that and they know that they are never gonna change anything but they don’t care as long as they’re getting paid.

They really need to be careful about angering immigration because immigration is providing a good service at least from my experience anyway and they need to STOP RIGHT NOW creating a potential us against them type of scenario. I always get along really good with my local immigration office and I’d like to keep it that way thank you. I hope this expat group isn’t claiming that they are the voice of all foreigners living in Thailand because they ARE NOT!

[Mel52]

They really need to be careful about angering immigration because immigration is providing a good service at least from my experience anyway and they need to STOP RIGHT NOW creating a potential us against them type of scenario. I always get along really good with my local immigration office and I’d like to keep it that way thank you. I hope this expat group isn’t claiming that they are the voice of all foreigners living in Thailand because they ARE NOT!

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

Given the choice between 1.5 hours transit to CW & wait for how long (lets say 30 mins) then 1.5 hours back OR walk 20 feet from Condo, hand over copy of lease agreement, passport & 2,000 THB it's a no brainer for me 

 

But there is no way I'm doing that twice a month (Only done it this time because I'm at CW on Monday for my yearly extension) so if they do really start to clamp down then it's sadly time to find myself another holiday home (I Live & work in Singapore so it would be no hardship for me to just stay there).

 

It's bad enough I have to go through the Non-Imm O dance simply because I come in & out so many times (Only ever staying for 5-10 days), but this would be the final nail in the coffin for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[at15]

your not thai, accept the situation or move on to a different country. little thai school children would have a better chance of influencing thai authorities than any foreign person. 

the only way things change, is if the visa numbers start falling then things would relax. but as it sits now foreigners residing in thailand are not needed anymore. plenty of chinese tourists. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by at15

[Mel52]

your not thai, accept the situation or move on to a different country. little thai school children would have a better chance of influencing thai authorities than any foreign person. 

Basically yeah. Except the current situation isn’t bad. I really enjoy life here.

[at15]

1 minute ago, Mel52 said:

Basically yeah. Except the current situation isn’t bad. I really enjoy life here.

yes, if people just accept things for what they are, they will have a easier time. i dont know why all thse old people are traveling everywhere. At that age i hope i would be waking up in the same bed close to 365 days a year. 

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, at15 said:

yes, if people just accept things for what they are, they will have a easier time. i dont know why all thse old people are traveling everywhere. At that age i hope i would be waking up in the same bed close to 365 days a year. 

Why bother living if it's just waiting to die. 'Elderly' these days are in good condition and like to use their money to see the world.