TM30: The form getting expats in Thailand into a bureaucratic tangle

[mberbae]

Why is the TM 6 Arrival Card not enough ? It asks for your place of

Residence. If you have lived in Thailand 5,10,15 years...do they REALLY

think you will Lie on your TM 6 ???  

For 90 day Tourists, this is not their concern. But for the Expat, it is.

What if you rent and the Homeowner lives in another Province or Country ?

What if they are on Holiday ?  Why is the TM 30 link Down for renters but

Not for Hotels ???

[chuck holmes]

I have lived here for twenty two years with no problem follow the little rules what is the fuss all about. This is a great place to live.

[DrTuner]

24 minutes ago, Expat Tom said:

"Don't Cry for Me Thailand", I'm out of here. Farang are just not wanted here anymore so, "Goodbye"!

And thanks for all the fish.

[Sheryl]

If a person were to own a condo in his name and was registered at the Immigration office how would he get nabbed for not filing in a form if he visited his wifes' family up north for several weeks at a time.

They wouldn't.

Problem is if you leave the country or stay in a hotel anyplace.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tchooptip]

7 hours ago, puchooay said:

You are going to sell your bike because a TM30 must be completed upon your return to your registered address? Really? Get online and register. It is very simple.

 

This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion.

 

"This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion"

For your own situation, OK ! 

But... I rent a house for seven years in Koh Samui, my owner a rather old lady moved to Suratthani, could you explain how could I manage to follow this law, sometimes she does not answer my phone but always call me back most of the time the next day. She has no computer, I cannot fill the TM30 myself otherwise I would do it without complaining and would go to immigration. I do no know how I will manage it intelligently ????

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, Chazar said:

its  gonna  take  you the best part of a  day to get there, enjoy your 2  day stay, ps  youll get 6  months in the Uk  no reporting of anything, even if you stay with me +  bonus I dont have to report you either  ( atlhough i might)..........got two spare  bedrooms  but you'd  probably rather freeze to death outside in an English summer.

If she was granted a visa.

[Sauc]

I went to immigration on Samui 3 days ago after being away for a while. Completed TM 30 in hand and signed by my landlord. They sent me away and said the landlord must do it online. So damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. He’s waiting for username and password now. 

[Steve Vincent]

TM30 is as outdated as Thai officials ! Firstly I’m grateful the bbc has highlighted this issue as it’s causing many foreign nationals a big headache... schools already struggling for decent teachers as i know to my own cost,as send son to private school as the mainstream school teachers learn Thai children next to nothing. This young lady was not at fault,.as it’s down to the landlord that she’s staying with to fax across her details to the immigration. Personally I wouldn’t have paid a penny in fines,a friend of mine who runs a hotel in Pattaya ( Thai & American ) fined over 45,000 baht for not informing Thai officials of guests. Now they comply with the laws,by making a copy of passport and sending info Thai immigration regular,.My point being if they are fining hoteliers and other businesses why therefor are they making a school teacher pay over £330 in fines ? Guests shouldn’t be made accountable when arriving at the airport immigration making you fill out your boarding cards of stay so it’s already noted where your staying... Thailand the land of smiles ????  not anymore it’s the land of fines

[flexomike]

3 hours ago, zydeco said:

Well, it can't be of too good a quality, as the site restricted the size amount I could upload.

I had to Resubmit mine three times at lower resolutions before it would allow me to submit,  now the long wait for the user name and password 

[Jumbo1968]

3 minutes ago, Tchooptip said:

 

"This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion"

For your own situation, OK ! 

But... I rent a house for seven years in Koh Samui, my owner a rather old lady moved to Suratthani, could you explain how could I manage to follow this law, sometimes she does not answer my phone but always call me back most of the time the next day. She has no computer, I cannot fill the TM30 myself otherwise I would do it without complaining and would go to immigration. I do no know how I will manage it intelligently ????

My owner lives in Germany, I do a TM28 at Jomtien which currently they appear happy with, it was done at Reception the last time a couple weeks ago, I didn’t even go into the office.

[Speedhump]

7 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

I'm so happy that you have a Thai wife, and she does your work for you. Bully for you. 

I'm so happy you live so close to an immig. office so your Thai lady can just 'pop in'. Bully for you.

Are your stupid? You believe everyone who has difficulty with the recent cracking down on this law has something to hide?

Hey, I guess a lot of Hong Thong must have passed under your bridge in over 30 years, right? ????

 

[Jumbo1968]

5 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

If she was granted a visa.

My G.F. has been twice too the U.K. 6 month Visa, checked at Border Control on the way in, no other checks even on the way out.

[DPKANKAN]

7 hours ago, puchooay said:

You are going to sell your bike because a TM30 must be completed upon your return to your registered address? Really? Get online and register. It is very simple.

 

This whole TM30 saga has been blown totally out of proportion.

No it is not simple. It does not work. I have downloaded the App, attempted about 10 times to fill it in, on 2 phones, 3 tablets and a laptop, but it will not complete.

And no, I am not a bar stool screen tapper, but educated and computer, tablet and phone literate.

As usual, the functionality of Thai software is not up to it.

[Russell17au]

You can all keep carrying on and whinging about this TM30 law but be honest about the answer to my question. How many 1st world countries that you have come from would change their immigration laws to suit a small minority group of foreigners that live in their country? Would the US change its immigration laws to suit a couple of thousand immigrants? What about the UK? I know that Australia would not and neither would New Zealand. You may not like the laws but Thailand has every right to enforce any of their laws as they see fit, the same as any other country in the world does. If you do not like the laws here or you are not willing to live by the laws here then my suggestion would be for you to check the laws of all the countries of the world and find one that you could live in and abide by their laws and move to that country where you can find the happiness that you are searching for to live your life. I believe that the small minority of farangs here in Thailand will not get these laws changed unless they get the majority of Thai citizens to join the push to have the laws changed. Foriegners can be kicked out of a country at any time that the country wants to get rid of them.

[flexomike]

2 hours ago, bowerboy said:

 

Yes they do have all the records. I wasn’t worried about TM30 until yesterday when a friend told me he had been fined.

 

He went to immigration to get some required document for his driving licence (not sure what exactly) and the lady brought up his details on the computer and then spun the screen round so he could see it and there were the names of all the hotels he had stayed in over the last few months....he got fined 1,800THB and had to pay it before they would give him the documents he needed.

 

BUT he wasn’t allowed to pay the fine...as the house was in his wife’s name she was the one who had to come down to the office to pay the fine before they would give him the documents.

 

Until yesterday I thought this was all a Thai Visa urban myth....it’s not....it’s real.

Does his wife know about all the hotels he stayed at 

[CM Dad]

I have lived and worked in Thailand for more than thirty years.  I have always had a legal visa and a work permit.  When I first came, getting the correct Type B visa to work and the work permit could be handled quickly and easily.  When the 90-day reporting began, that was annoying but also fairly quick and easy.  After I retired, I changed my visa to  a Spousal/family one.  I used to make driving trips all over the country and have been to almost 60 provinces.  Many of the places I stayed for the night were small and in small, out-of-the-way places.  I was rarely even asked for my passport and simply showed my Thai driving license.  I am quite sure that many of my stays went unreported.  I also never did a TM30 when returning to the home I have lived in for more than twenty years.  When the immigration office in my province began insisting on have a registered TM30 in order to renew my yearly extension of stay, I took my landlord's brother to immigration to fill out the paperwork since my landlord is a Thai who lives in Australia.  Even though a TM30 registration had never been required. I was made to pay a fine of 1600 baht for not filing a TM30 for all those years..  Of course we were told it was the landlord who was being fined, but I was the one who took out my wallet and paid the money.  Atn that time, The Immigration Officer told me that I would only have to report again if I left Thailand and then returned.

I had hoped that now that I am retired, I could take my Thai family to see some of the many interesting places I have visited over the years so that they could learn more about their own country.  Needless to say, that will now not be happening due to the required TM30 renewal and reporting every time I leave my home where I have lived for more than twenty years.  If I do travel with my family, it will now be to neighboring countries like Laos, Cambodia, and Vietnam.  If my Thai wife and legally adopted Thai children want to explore their country of birth, Thailand, they will now have to go alone. 

By the way, I am now using a one year Non O visa that I got last January in Laos after I could not extend my family/marriage visa because my US bank account where my pension is deposited is in my name along with one of my sister's names.  I simply used my US bank visa/debit card to withdraw money as needed. Immigration would not accept my bank statements which clearly listed deposits to my US account as being made to me on a regular monthly basis, and all of the withdrawals being made in Thailand, 95% of them at the same Thai bank near my home.  They questioned that the US account was not mine because of my sister's name also being on it.  To remove my sister's name my US bank requires that we both go to the bank in person.  I have not even been to my country, the USA, in fourteen years, have no desire to go there, and do not really want my sister's name taken off my account.  It is convenient to have her handle any banking issues that come up like getting new visa/debit cards, etc.  My bank will not send any cards to me here directly because they say thast posting a card to Thailand is too risky.  My sister just gets the cards in my name only and sends them Federal Express - a bit costly, but safe and easy.

I have had the required 400,000 baht transferred here to an account that has only my name on it, so tahat I can change from the monthly income to deposit method. .  It has now been here for far longer than the required two months, but since getting my Non-O visa at a cost of 5,000 baht plus about another 5,000 in travel costs, I will wait until that visa runs out at the beginning of next year to change back to my marriage extension.  However, I am saddened that I now feel like I am unwelcome here after paying Thai taxes and contributing so much to Thailand, the country I chose to reside in and love so much.  I am even more saddened that I no longer have the desire to share the many wonderful places I have seen in this, the country of my choice, with my family.

[Chazar]

15 minutes ago, chuck holmes said:

I have lived here for twenty two years with no problem follow the little rules what is the fuss all about. This is a great place to live.

Blimey the new posters are  really stacking up.

[DrTuner]

3 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

How many 1st world countries that you have come from would change their immigration laws to suit a small minority group of foreigners that live in their country? 

How many 1st world countries have laws from 1979 that were never updated to take into account the ease of international travel these days?

Edited August 29, 2019 by DrTuner

[newnative]

   Someone (not me) who lives in Pattaya is going to visit his relatives in Bangkok this weekend.  Someone (not me) will leave Friday and come back to Pattaya on Sunday or Monday.  Someone (not me) will be staying at his relative's house while he is in Bangkok.  Someone (not me) will not be filing a TM30 when he returns to Pattaya.  Someone (not me) is pretty sure there will not be a fine to pay in his future for not reporting this trip.

[Why Oh Why]

The truly sad part of this new enforcement is, that unless you own your own condo here, it's the responsibility of the Thai landlords and condo managers to do this. For some reason immigration is targeting the foreigners as the fine-able offenders of this failure. Immigration really should address this instead of fining foreigners for an offense committed by the Thai landlords and condo managers. If you rent, the online systems are unavailable to you to use. Surely immigration can include a box on the form "Permanent residence" to tick, then this problem should the go away until we move to a new residence. I truly believe the wrong people are been fined for something that's the responsibility of a Thai national.

[Globe Trotter]

32 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Totally agree.  From what I have read it is not Thailand doing this freely but under pressure from "Big Brother" to track people.  Think about it......not everybody has facebook!

oh yeah of course, I was actually speaking in general terms and society globally speaking.

[Eligius]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

They wouldn't.

Problem is if you leave the country or stay in a hotel anyplace.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sheryl, what about if one flies to a different town in Thailand to visit a wife or partner there (or anyone, or no one, for that matter!)? Does the airline report our flight to the Authorities?? This is a genuine question. Thanks for any info you can give!

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Eligius

[Jumbo1968]

6 minutes ago, newnative said:

   Someone (not me) who lives in Pattaya is going to visit his relatives in Bangkok this weekend.  Someone (not me) will leave Friday and come back to Pattaya on Sunday or Monday.  Someone (not me) will be staying at his relative's house while he is in Bangkok.  Someone (not me) will not be filing a TM30 when he returns to Pattaya.  Someone (not me) is pretty sure there will not be a fine to pay in his future for not reporting this trip.

Unless you stay in a hotel who should do a TM30 no one will know you have been out of town.

 

[Lucky100]

7 hours ago, GraThai said:

I totally agree that TM30 is an outdated law however I have lived here in Thailand for 30+  years and try to abide by all the rules including this one. Every time I return home from a trip she fills in the form pops into immigration and its done so what is the massive problem...unless of course people have something to hide?????

 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

You dont travel around Thailand frequently.  If a biker takes a trip for a day or two every week he will have to make frequent illogical trips to the IO.  //

Why that? He will just have to take 2 minutes on his mobile every time he come back to notify Immigration that he returned home... (or what else ??)

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

How many 1st world countries have laws from 1979 that were never updated to take into account the ease of international travel these days?

And how many change them each time they change their underpants.

[JenksB]

7 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Just ban them all together

So my wife who lives in the UK and is on a settlement visa should be banned because you dont like the TM30, thanks a lot for your understanding on how families like to live together

[Scott3000]

7 hours ago, mania said:

We no longer live in Thailand & visiting 2-3 months a year on a Type O I get for $80 here at local Thai Consulate seems just fine without any reporting etc etc

I really enjoy the 3 months

 

But every time I read about this TM30 I just shake my head.,,,

 

What I cannot figure out is

I totally agree with the first paragraph you've written.

 

My first time in Thailand, I stayed for five and a half months, 2008-09, and that was great. Then I lived there for most of the time during 2014-2019, and much of that was great. 2019 was not great, and in decline, so like you, I no longer live in Thailand.

 

Why bother trying to figure anything out?

 

I've refocused my energies. I lived in Chiang Mai, where it is easy to get two things: Complacent and delusional. I confess to the former. Your 3 months per year plan, or something like 3-7 months per year... not always the same length of stay, avoid the worst time of year... hot season, Chinese New Year... that leaves the July thru January time frame. Maybe get one visa and do one border hop or two... pick a few other spots you like... keep it fresh, keep the complacency at bay... that opens up some new possibilities. I know in my case, there are things I just wasn't getting done from the Chiang Mai Comfort Zone, things that are important to me. But give me a few inconvenient shake-ups, and I'll somehow manage to arrange my priorities & focus on what's important.

 

All I need to figure out about the TM-30 is, whether I can live with it or not... perhaps. I'll keep monitoring from afar for now.

 

By contrast, I've got a 10 year Chinese tourist visa in my passport, but the Great Firewall makes my life there impossible, so I probably won't return to that country any time soon, say, in this lifetime. No need to figure out the great firewall. It will be there, and I will be someplace else.

 

Maybe I'll return to Thailand, maybe not. Maybe I'll go back for 3-5 months, like you... maybe not every year... these sorts of options are becoming more interesting to me. Perhaps my path will take me elsewhere for a few years... or forever... who knows?

[paddyfield7]

8 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

It will never be abolished because its a source of income and it assures that the IOs can keep their jobs. And the app will be kept malfunctioning for the same reasons.

This raises the question why Thailand has abstained from enforcing this for around 40 years.....

[rott]

5 hours ago, overherebc said:

One of the reasons you have to fill in a lot of paperwork and prove finances is because people abused the system in the past and stayed on and managing through the system to claim public funds from the uk and get free medical treatment.

Don't blame the UK for it, blame Thai people who worked the system to steal from UK. They are the ones you should direct your anger at.

Can you list all the benefits that Thailand bestows on it's visitors??

PS.

It's called Great Britain, not England.

Almost gave you a like but it is actually the United Kingdom.