What they don't tell you about clearing off to Vietnam

[robsamui]

I'm one of the ones who didn't have the 800,000B to stay in Thailand. Or the 400,000B to keep full time in a Thai bank. And so, after having lived here (there?!) for 21 years non-stop, I took the plunge, sold up, and have been living in Vietnam now for the last 6 months. I never acquired a Thai wife and for the last 2 years had been living by myself anyway, so no ties in that direction. But there were a great many things that I never saw written about Vietnam. For those of you contemplating the move, here's some of the downside.

 

The police are even more ineffectual than in Thailand, and very much more corrupt. Crime is so rife that everyone accepts the fact. If a stranger appears on your roof with a ladder at 3 am, the accepted behavior is to turn all the lights on and shout at him as loud as you can while banging two saucepans together. Nobody calls the police, as they won't respond. What, to us, is an alarming level of anti-social behavior seems perfectly normal to the Vietnamese. If a Viet describes his neighborhood as 'very secure', he doesn't mean there's no crime, he means that all the houses have security bars on the windows and padlocks on all outside doors and gates.

 

There is now a Facebook group for Saigon with nothing but photos of thieves and robbers that have been spotted lurking or robbing or getting away on motorbikes.

 

Motorbike theft is rampant - there are 2,000 bikes stolen in Saigon alone every month.  Smartphones are a prime target for drive-by thefts - dozens a day in every tourist area snatched out of unsuspecting foreign hands. 

However, outside of the tourist centers, the ordinary Vietnamese seem to be honest and warm-hearted. Their interface with foreigners takes a bit of getting used to – the Viet men in particular. Thai people seem to grin all the time for no real reason. The Vietnamese people do not. Men seem to wear a constant scowl: women less so. But when they get to recognise your face this all relaxes a bit.

 

Most of you will already know that the currency is insane. Bank notes with 6 zeros. It’s not so much the silliness of the numbers – it’s that there are SO many different notes in use. In the course of shopping and getting change, no matter how carefully you have arranged you money beforehand, you’ll find yourself stuffing lunatic change into your pocket. You’ll get a mess of currency that mixes together Viet notes worth 2.75 baht and 13 baht along with other notes like the 100,000 dong note, which is worth 137 baht – in-together with the half-million dong notes – worth a stately 700 baht.

ATM machines. 

15 years ago there were hardly any ATM machines in Vietnam, but due to increased tourism they’re now to be found everywhere. Unfortunately there’s a nasty little kneejerk here – most machines are limited to a maximum withdrawal of 2 million dong each time. That’s 2,700 baht or £66. There are always queues at ATMs because each customer stands there for 10 minutes, putting his card in and out, over and over again. Needless to say, there’s a fee each time. It’s happily only 27 baht (60 pence). But, using a First World card limit of, say, £300 a day, that’s 5 goes on a Viet ATM machine, with combined fees of £3. 

 

Driving licences and insurance.
Vietnam is not included in the universal Geneva agreement which relates to international driving licences. So foreigners can’t legally be on the roads here. Well, not unless they get a Viet driving licence. This is easy to do, and cheap, but takes a whole day in a major city where there are test centres. Not to mention that (of course) all the forms and documentation are in Vietnamese.

 

BUT – as a foreigner your driving licence only lasts for the duration of your visa. Which for the majority of foreigners here is 3 months – but even for those here on a 1-year work visa it means a new test and licence every year. So 99% of people don’t bother with a licence. And the insurance implications are obvious . . . 

 

Shopping:

There are no 7-11’s in Vietnam! Yes, there are ‘mini-marts’. But each one stocks different items. You have to get to know which ones to go to for specific things. Local markets are an alternative. But, again, you need to learn your way around each one. If you can find a Vinmart shop then that's the closest thing, but you'll probably have to make a special journey rather than just popping down the road. In Vietnam you can end up spending an afternoon going around 15 different shops just for half-a-bag of household stuff..

 

Some things just don't seem to be available, even by mail order (Lazada, Shopee etc) - and if you can find them they are very expensive. Cutlery sets, for example - knife, fork, soup spoon, tea spoon. Everyone here uses chopsticks (unlike Thailand) so bring a set of cutlery with you. You'll find chefs' knives quite readily. But not the Western-style cutlery.

 

Similarly, it's the same with dinnerware. Tiny plates and noodle bowls are found everywhere, but dinner services - dishware - are hard to find other than in specialist shops, at high prices.  Another thing is bedding sets - bottom sheet, top sheet, pillows and bolster cases.

Renting:

The general mis-use of the terms 'house', 'apartment', 'room' and 'home' is widespread. 30% of the time an advert that reads HOUSE TO RENT is actually advertising just one room with shared amenities. Likewise, the term 'apartment' is hugely abused, with most advertisers having no understanding of what an 'apartment' actually is. This is mainly because the term 'studio apartment' is in widespread use (to mean just one self-contained room, with bathroom/kitchenette inset).

 

ALSO be aware that there are literally hundreds of adverts for rentals being placed by 'agents'. 95% of these so-called agents are simply private individuals after a sales commission. This is common practice (offering a one-month's-rent finders fee) and it has attracted a large number of total idiots, particularly in areas where there are a lot of foreigners pushing up the rental prices.

 

Hospitals
Every city has at least one competent hospital, but for specialised treatment you'll probably need to go to HCMC. But then it's only $100 return to fly to BKK, if it's not an emergency.

 

Importing your things:
Be very careful about shipping your goods, even via a company like DHL, which is expensive but guarantees to oversee the process. Used household items are free of VAT and import duties. BUT Vietnam customs will expect you make a customs declaration when you enter, and that means you need the shipping documents to hand from DHL, and if your goods have not been shipped yet, that's a nightmare. If, like me, you want to spend time finding somewhere nice to live before shipping your stuff - beware. There is a 30-day limit. If your goods are not shipped within 30 days of you arriving in Vietnam, you'll end up paying import duties. Better to carry as much as you can onto the aircraft when you come - but that defeats the whole object of bringing your goods in once you are settled.

BUT - the upside of moving to V'nam compensates for this. The overall general cost of living is more or less half of living in a big city in Thailand - certainly you'll spend one-third less every month. Internet and phone data plans are a fraction of the cost of Thailand. Buying a motorbike is cheap, instantaneous and needs no registration. Air fares are really cheap -  about $100 to fly return to Bangkok and much less if you fly domestically. The immigration process is simple and straightforward - most people stay on 3-month tourist visas and keep renewing them without any problem. (It used to cost me about 2,500 baht monthly to maintain a Visa/Work Permit and do a border run every 90 days . . . yes, I know, I could have opted for an annual visa extension. But now I fly to Bangkok for a few days and am budgeting 2,000B a month for my visa run, including 2 nights in a BKK hotel).

Regrets? More people here have big domestic karaoke sets . . . overall the people are not initially as warm and open . . . it's harder to find imported Brit food . . . the Viet coffee tastes like cocoa . . . if you're in the wrong part of the country there a 6-month rainy season with some BAD rain . . .  the language is as insane as the currency . . . but that's about it!

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2019 by robsamui

[aqua4]

Thank you for taking the time writing about your move. Much appreciated. 

[Jingthing]

Excellent info.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[robsamui]

22 minutes ago, vinniekintana said:

Sounds dreary.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to write this.????

Actually - it's not! The info above relates to the pitfalls of people coming to live here, and if that isn't you, then you'll find it boring.

I'm in Nha Trang, which has a climate the same as Koh Samui. The central part of the city is crammed full of different nationalities, with little Viet cafes side-by-side with nightclubs and Aussie pubs and market stalls, the streets are tree-lined and hung with fairy lights, a Grab motorbike costs 50 baht to go 6 Km across town, there are events and displays happening frequently . . . the only thing I miss are bars on the beach. Apart from that it's fun - and it's permanently affordable!

Edited September 1, 2019 by robsamui

[gunderhill]

Very informative thanks.

[seasia]

robsamui

 

Very interesting. Only ever been as a tourist, I like it there.

 A very well balanced and well written post.

I was aware of some of what you posted, other things not so.

 

Thanks.

[gunderhill]

4 minutes ago, seasia said:

robsamui

 

Very interesting. Only ever been as a tourist, I like it there.

 A very well balanced and well written post.

I was aware of some of what you posted, other things not so.

 

Thanks.

My Wife recently returned from a trip with some friends  thoroughly enjoyed it she said very cheap didn't mention any problems, she went to Da nang? even the flight was   stupid cheap. Outside  a main city didn't mention crime but again only a 4  day trip. Hired a  car and driver who she said was  excellent, said driving was  crazy though and she know's Thai driving is  not good.

Edited September 1, 2019 by gunderhill

[Yinn]

1 hour ago, robsamui said:

BUT - the upside of moving to V'nam compensates for this. The overall general cost of living is more or less half of living in a big city in Thailand - certainly you'll spend one-third less every month.

 

So now your life have many problems. But is cheaper. 

 

Maybe you can find the cheaper worse country and be more happy. Ethiopia is very cheap.

 

Good luck Rob.

 

The other thred talk about all the farang in Thailand will leave to go live in Vietnam. 

How many really go?

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

 

i go there before. Is interesting. 

But....

the people spit INSIDE the restaurant, bar, etc. Yuk.

And not smile. Not “ow jai”

[NCC1701A]

39 minutes ago, Yinn said:

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

when i was in Saigon I was thanked for my country trying to help defeat the north. And was told most people don't even remember the war it was so long ago.   

 

ironically, Vietnam is expanding their military to fight the Communist Chinese aggression in SEA. Thailand is inviting the Chinese in by the car loads. Good luck with that. 

   

Edited September 1, 2019 by NCC1701A

[BestB]

Very good and honest write up.

 

Grass always looks greener on the other side.

 

I loved Jakarta on my first visit but wise enough not to jump to conclusions

 

Visited a few more times and it would be last place i would want to live.

 

7-11, ice availability is just totally normal and expected, but in other countries its simply not so. For example no one sells ice in Jakarta. But if some shop does, i was never able to find it.

 

Vietnam was getting superb feedback from tourists and as it turns out living there is very different to being a tourist

[sunnyboy2018]

I would like to ask the OP why he didn't use an agent to stay in Thailand?

[robsamui]

7 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

I would like to ask the OP why he didn't use an agent to stay in Thailand?

if you read the OPs post , he makes it clear that the cost of living in Thailand is now too high, and that Vietnam is between half and 2/3 of the cost.

Edited September 1, 2019 by robsamui

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, robsamui said:

and it's permanently affordable!

thanks for an interesting and informative post...

 

but! permanently affordable... how is that - do you hedge by buying futures? your 1/2 million dong notes suggest inflation... 

[bkk6060]

A big downgrade in life and lifestyle to 3rd world.

No thanks, I actually respect myself and my life more then that.

Not my plan for my golden years.

[Yinn]

51 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

when i was in Saigon I was thanked for my country trying to help defeat the north. And was told most people don't even remember the war it was so long ago.   

 

ironically, Vietnam is expanding their military to fight the Communist Chinese aggression in SEA. Thailand is inviting the Chinese in by the car loads. Good luck with that. 

   

I go to Hanoi, in the north. War museum. 

They remember.

They also don’t like the French people. Very cruel.

 

They not have good experience with farang.

[sfokevin]

Thanks for the report! Sounds like Thailand 30 years ago in its golden years...

[Puchaiyank]

Glad to see you found a new place to explore and enjoy...there are no perfect places...embrace the good...discard the rest!   ????

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

robsamui, that's a pretty fair description of life in Vietnam, having just spent almost two years living in Vung Tau, southeast of 
Saigon, and a much earlier spell on the west side of the Delta.

 

A few remarks: 

 

Viets are very security conscious. The worst times for crimes are after any big sporting event (gambling) in which a lot of people will lose big amounts of money, their motorcycles and cars or even their homes. I know one foreigner whose heavily gated and barred house was broken into and numerous big bikes, cash and other valuables were stolen, despite there being a security guard. He believes it was an inside job, while they were away briefly, because the robbers took the window bars and front door bars apart and no one saw or heard anything.  The robbers needed the money to pay off their debts with the mafia, the victim told me. It was right after a major soccer series. On the other hand, after say the World Cup, there will be lots of almost new expensive motorbikes in the second-hand shops. I'm not joking. 

 

I never had any such crime problems and felt completely safe in Vung Tau. Overall, everyone was nice and friendly. Never felt the shops were ripping me off, except for a couple of minor incidents of over-charging. 

 

Regarding currency. Keep 500,000, 200,000 and 100,000 VND notes separate from the lower value notes. The blue 500,000 and 20,000 notes look very similar, as do the reddish 200,000 and 10,000 notes.

 

In tourist areas, with big weekend influxes, get your money out of the ATM beforehand. Machines often go empty or offline in the weekend onslaught. 

 

I determined I was not going to ride a motorcycle in VN in any way, shape or form. I've ridden scooters for years in Thailand and Cambodia. The Viets are the most unpredictable, brainless riders I've ever seen. In a one-month period, no less than 4 people I know, 3 foreigners and 1 Viet, had serious accidents. Of course, almost no one has a licence or insurance. Victim pays. 

 

There's absolutely nothing like the Thai 7-11s in VN. Although there are a couple now in Saigon. Circle K is the best run convenience chain. Family Mart is not bad either. Vinmart expanding crazily but not well managed and pretty useless from my point of view. All of them are raising their game though, bit by bit. 

 

However, I learned to buy basic supplies only from the chain stores. The mom and pop places, I believe, sell dodgy or counterfeit items like booze and water. A friend had independently decided to do the same. I voiced my suspicions about a mineral water of a well known label and he revealed he came to the same conclusion because he felt sick a number of times. Me too.

 

Last, booze. Lots of counterfeit whiskey, vodka, Jagermeister. Tends to be fake booze in bars that sell it for unbelievably low prices, such as buy one, get one free. Regular headaches led me to suspect contaminated Black Label and Jagermeister. Stopped drinking them, immediately no more headaches. I switched to Jameson, which seemed quite OK, but later someone said he felt they were counterfeiting that too. Felt the same about the cartons of Mevius Wind Blues I was buying at a popular foreigners' market compared to the somewhat better packs I bought  at Circle K in Saigon. But the Thai ones are far superior. 

 

OK, this is starting to get rather negative. It's part and parcel of why I left Vietnam. 

 

 

[brokenbone]

body too broken to try to acclimatize in any new environment, even more if i have to spend half a day trying

to get what i want, i cant even do that.

 

if i had a properly working body i would

appreciate the lower cost tho, and inconveniences wouldnt be such a drag.

i just hope i die before i have to leave,

relocating is too painful

[madmen]

57 minutes ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

robsamui, that's a pretty fair description of life in Vietnam, having just spent almost two years living in Vung Tau, southeast of 
Saigon, and a much earlier spell on the west side of the Delta.

 

A few remarks: 

 

Viets are very security conscious. The worst times for crimes are after any big sporting event (gambling) in which a lot of people will lose big amounts of money, their motorcycles and cars or even their homes. I know one foreigner whose heavily gated and barred house was broken into and numerous big bikes, cash and other valuables were stolen, despite there being a security guard. He believes it was an inside job, while they were away briefly, because the robbers took the window bars and front door bars apart and no one saw or heard anything.  The robbers needed the money to pay off their debts with the mafia, the victim told me. It was right after a major soccer series. On the other hand, after say the World Cup, there will be lots of almost new expensive motorbikes in the second-hand shops. I'm not joking. 

 

I never had any such crime problems and felt completely safe in Vung Tau. Overall, everyone was nice and friendly. Never felt the shops were ripping me off, except for a couple of minor incidents of over-charging. 

 

Regarding currency. Keep 500,000, 200,000 and 100,000 VND notes separate from the lower value notes. The blue 500,000 and 20,000 notes look very similar, as do the reddish 200,000 and 10,000 notes.

 

In tourist areas, with big weekend influxes, get your money out of the ATM beforehand. Machines often go empty or offline in the weekend onslaught. 

 

I determined I was not going to ride a motorcycle in VN in any way, shape or form. I've ridden scooters for years in Thailand and Cambodia. The Viets are the most unpredictable, brainless riders I've ever seen. In a one-month period, no less than 4 people I know, 3 foreigners and 1 Viet, had serious accidents. Of course, almost no one has a licence or insurance. Victim pays. 

 

There's absolutely nothing like the Thai 7-11s in VN. Although there are a couple now in Saigon. Circle K is the best run convenience chain. Family Mart is not bad either. Vinmart expanding crazily but not well managed and pretty useless from my point of view. All of them are raising their game though, bit by bit. 

 

However, I learned to buy basic supplies only from the chain stores. The mom and pop places, I believe, sell dodgy or counterfeit items like booze and water. A friend had independently decided to do the same. I voiced my suspicions about a mineral water of a well known label and he revealed he came to the same conclusion because he felt sick a number of times. Me too.

 

Last, booze. Lots of counterfeit whiskey, vodka, Jagermeister. Tends to be fake booze in bars that sell it for unbelievably low prices, such as buy one, get one free. Regular headaches led me to suspect contaminated Black Label and Jagermeister. Stopped drinking them, immediately no more headaches. I switched to Jameson, which seemed quite OK, but later someone said he felt they were counterfeiting that too. Felt the same about the cartons of Mevius Wind Blues I was buying at a popular foreigners' market compared to the somewhat better packs I bought  at Circle K in Saigon. But the Thai ones are far superior. 

 

OK, this is starting to get rather negative. It's part and parcel of why I left Vietnam. 

 

 

geez that's just crazy. Thanks for exposing the scaming. I think those running from tm30 form Will be jumping from frying pan in to the fire!

[lkv]

1 minute ago, madmen said:

geez that's just crazy. Thanks for exposing the scaming. I think those running from tm30 form Will be jumping from frying pan in to the fire!

Yeah, always good to hear it from an expat's point of view. As a tourist, you don't see all this stuff.

[Bournville]

Great report. Thanks. All the very best to you. 

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

So now your life have many problems. But is cheaper. 

 

Maybe you can find the cheaper worse country and be more happy. Ethiopia is very cheap.

 

Good luck Rob.

 

The other thred talk about all the farang in Thailand will leave to go live in Vietnam. 

How many really go?

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

 

i go there before. Is interesting. 

But....

the people spit INSIDE the restaurant, bar, etc. Yuk.

And not smile. Not “ow jai”

Well no. A lot of things he says are a pain are just a one off part of moving.

 

once that is done the upsides are good, just different.

[Number 6]

2 hours ago, Yinn said:

I go to Hanoi, in the north. War museum. 

They remember.

They also don’t like the French people. Very cruel.

 

They not have good experience with farang.

North Vietnam, Hanoi War Crimes Museum.

 

I'm sure you were given the straight line there.

 

I went to the War Crimes Museum in HCMC in 1992. Twas good for a laff or three. Orgasm of Communist propaganda. But now the Communists are cozying up to US for trade and defense against China. Ironic and all the South Vietnamese the North killed.

 

Pretty genius Ying.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Number 6

[jondoe18]

It's enough to have a nice local girl and Vietnam has more advantages

than the disadvantages Compared to Thailand .

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, Yinn said:

I go to Hanoi, in the north. War museum. 

They remember.

They also don’t like the French people. Very cruel.

 

They not have good experience with farang.

Lets not forget , Vietnam has also been at war with China , Cambodia , Japan and Laos in the last 100 years

[wisperone]

4 hours ago, Yinn said:

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

Not true. The viets don't hold resentment. They are very friendly to foreigners. They have a very young populace and the war is ancient history. The farangs fighting there were fighting with the south. It is not a issue.

[wisperone]

3 hours ago, BestB said:

Vietnam was getting superb feedback from tourists and as it turns out living there is very different to being a tourist

That applies to any country.

[jondoe18]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Lets not forget , Vietnam has also been at war with China , Cambodia , Japan and Laos in the last 100 years

On the north side, the entire Soviet Union was "helping"..
They don't have an easy choice who they want to hate.

[Langkawee]

1 hour ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

robsamui, that's a pretty fair description of life in Vietnam, having just spent almost two years living in Vung Tau, southeast of 
Saigon, and a much earlier spell on the west side of the Delta.

 

A few remarks: 

 

Viets are very security conscious. The worst times for crimes are after any big sporting event (gambling) in which a lot of people will lose big amounts of money, their motorcycles and cars or even their homes. I know one foreigner whose heavily gated and barred house was broken into and numerous big bikes, cash and other valuables were stolen, despite there being a security guard. He believes it was an inside job, while they were away briefly, because the robbers took the window bars and front door bars apart and no one saw or heard anything.  The robbers needed the money to pay off their debts with the mafia, the victim told me. It was right after a major soccer series. On the other hand, after say the World Cup, there will be lots of almost new expensive motorbikes in the second-hand shops. I'm not joking. 

 

I never had any such crime problems and felt completely safe in Vung Tau. Overall, everyone was nice and friendly. Never felt the shops were ripping me off, except for a couple of minor incidents of over-charging. 

 

Regarding currency. Keep 500,000, 200,000 and 100,000 VND notes separate from the lower value notes. The blue 500,000 and 20,000 notes look very similar, as do the reddish 200,000 and 10,000 notes.

 

In tourist areas, with big weekend influxes, get your money out of the ATM beforehand. Machines often go empty or offline in the weekend onslaught. 

 

I determined I was not going to ride a motorcycle in VN in any way, shape or form. I've ridden scooters for years in Thailand and Cambodia. The Viets are the most unpredictable, brainless riders I've ever seen. In a one-month period, no less than 4 people I know, 3 foreigners and 1 Viet, had serious accidents. Of course, almost no one has a licence or insurance. Victim pays. 

 

There's absolutely nothing like the Thai 7-11s in VN. Although there are a couple now in Saigon. Circle K is the best run convenience chain. Family Mart is not bad either. Vinmart expanding crazily but not well managed and pretty useless from my point of view. All of them are raising their game though, bit by bit. 

 

However, I learned to buy basic supplies only from the chain stores. The mom and pop places, I believe, sell dodgy or counterfeit items like booze and water. A friend had independently decided to do the same. I voiced my suspicions about a mineral water of a well known label and he revealed he came to the same conclusion because he felt sick a number of times. Me too.

 

Last, booze. Lots of counterfeit whiskey, vodka, Jagermeister. Tends to be fake booze in bars that sell it for unbelievably low prices, such as buy one, get one free. Regular headaches led me to suspect contaminated Black Label and Jagermeister. Stopped drinking them, immediately no more headaches. I switched to Jameson, which seemed quite OK, but later someone said he felt they were counterfeiting that too. Felt the same about the cartons of Mevius Wind Blues I was buying at a popular foreigners' market compared to the somewhat better packs I bought  at Circle K in Saigon. But the Thai ones are far superior. 

 

OK, this is starting to get rather negative. It's part and parcel of why I left Vietnam. 

 

 

HCMC and newrby is where the losers are, the North won the war, the North is a salt of the Earth place, history defined that with the courage of defeating the Yankees and French. Stay away from the losers.