Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[puipuitom]

6 hours ago, vogie said:

I wouldn't build your spirits up too high just yet, your high elation could be a little premature. There were reports of Nigel Farage saying he would not contest any Tory seats if Boris agrees to leave with a no deal, but even without him saying that, the Tories would still be favourites to win a general election, but of course this is according to polls, but we have to have something to go on.

Alistair Birt is the latest to announce he will not be contesting his seat at the next election, he joins a long list of Tory rebels who have said the same, it would appear thay are jumping before being pushed, either way it would be nice for the party to have MPs that share the same values and belief in democracy. Voting againgst your own party and siding with the likes of Corbyn has never been the Tory way, nor should it ever be.

 

 

 

Remind: in the UK it goes per barony ( constituency), like in the MiddleAges, whose representative must try to get as much as possible from ther "Crown" for his barony. Interests for the country, my….. 

In those, the LibDem will be the largest, the others get nothing, and visa versa. 50%+1 of the baronies = government with dictatorial powers. 41% at average over the UK says nothing. Think of UKIP with 4 million votes and not one single seat.

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

No. What we're seeing now, is protecting Britain from a no-deal. 

No, we're seeing people who cannot accept losing.

 

I remember coming to Thailand over a decade ago and seeing all the political trouble here, yellow vs red etc. and commenting to my gf how Thai democracy needed to mature and people needed to learn to accept the result of the democratic vote and accept when they lost, like they do in the UK.

 

Seems we've regressed.

[JAG]

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Not up to the people. Up to parliament to make decisions.

The people appoint (elect) parliament. The two main parties in this parliament both stood on manifestoes to honour the results of the 2016 referendum, and to take the UK out of the EU. In 2016, and in the 2017 election, the people voted to leave the EU.

 

As manifesto betrayals go, this is about as egregious as they get!

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

That's a new one on me. ????

 

I saw the BBC trying to spin it as Parliament vs. the government, but never the people vs. the government.

 

In reality this is Parliament vs. the people.

Yes thought that might ruffle the feathers ????.  Of course it should read right minded people versus Cummings/JRM/Johnson.  Or maybe you think the majority of people in the UK back the creep Johnson and his bullying tactics?

 

Well time will tell.

 

In the meantime the pound recovered last night after Johnson lost in the house.  Should give some succour to the ex-pats in Thailand ????

[stephenterry]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Which there won't be, because Remainers know that if put to the public the Tories will smash them.

 

So these cowards will continue obstructing the process from the seats that they won based upon a false premise, continue to go against the manifestos on which they were elected and against article 50 which they themselves enacted, to delay Brexit and avoid the "peoples vote" that they were pretending they wanted.

Yeah, so what? Politics is a messy game. Mostly based on self-interest whatever side you support. It amazes me that so many posters on here think they have an influence on what parliament decides.

 

My advice is to go back and live your lives, because sure as eggs are eggs, your input would be meaningless, and in any event whatever the outcome the man in the street would pay for it- not Johnson or Corbyn.

[dunroaming]

13 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Hey, that's being optimistic. Better the leavers admit it wasn't a good idea to vote for that. 

Actually I know a few leavers who were very pleased that Johnson was stopped in his tracks last night.  It was drinks all round by them in the local.  I believe there are plenty of good honest people who are still saying leave, not everyone spits vitriol all the time.

[puipuitom]

5 hours ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Countries don't need a trade deal to trade, duh!

ONLY for special preferences, like.. reduced ( or zero) import duty. The UK will soon file it … if Parliament ( I mean… the one elected = HoC as well as the NON-elected  =HoL) is not overrun again.

Second: I can imagine, in some countreis, they like to know- and put restrictions- on what is imported. Or.. would you accept e.g. Chinese baby milk powder -without any scrutiny - in the British supermarkets ? Bye-the-way: if not a miracle happens, 1 Nov the British are out of RASFF and EFSA.

[beautifulthailand99]

14 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The only deal on the table. About time you acknowledge that. 

The one that Johnson and Rees-Mogg voted for that one. 

[puipuitom]

10 minutes ago, JAG said:

The people appoint (elect) parliament. The two main parties in this parliament both stood on manifestoes to honour the results of the 2016 referendum, and to take the UK out of the EU. In 2016, and in the 2017 election, the people voted to leave the EU.

TILL they discovered wqhat the consequences could be….  GBP from € 1,40... to € 1,10 in just 3 1/2 years. Not so many "Western" countries achieves someting like that the last 60 years.

[beautifulthailand99]

11 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Yeah, so what? Politics is a messy game. Mostly based on self-interest whatever side you support. It amazes me that so many posters on here think they have an influence on what parliament decides.

 

My advice is to go back and live your lives, because sure as eggs are eggs, your input would be meaningless, and in any event whatever the outcome the man in the street would pay for it- not Johnson or Corbyn.

Exactly posting avidly on an obscure expat internet forum a bigger definition of impotent it would be hard to find. It is the modern day equivalent of shouting at the telly. This leaver has a good as grasp on the truth as many a leaver here. Plus he can spell. 

 

 

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Exactly posting avidly on an obscure expat internet forum a bigger definition of impotent it would be hard to find. It is the modern day equivalent of shouting at the telly. This leaver has a good as grasp on the truth as many a leaver here. Plus he can spell. 

 

555 so what are you doing here then?

 

I just wanted him to admit that he doesn't care about Democracy as long as he gets what he wants. He admitted it in the end, so at least he's being honest about it now. I wasn't expecting Boris Johnson to reply. ????

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Actually I know a few leavers who were very pleased that Johnson was stopped in his tracks last night.  It was drinks all round by them in the local.  I believe there are plenty of good honest people who are still saying leave, not everyone spits vitriol all the time.

Perhaps next time you could ask them, what is their personal benefit from leaving. Because my family and myself are suffering from the pound devaluation. Some might be financially able to weather the storm, others are not in that situation - or couldn't care less.

 

But it's not just about financial capability. It's more to do with tangible benefits of leaving the EU that are realised post Brexit - if it happens.. As at now, forgive me for saying, I have not seen or read any that would benefit me or my UK family. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

555 so what are you doing here then?

 

I just wanted him to admit that he doesn't care about Democracy as long as he gets what he wants. He admitted it in the end, so at least he's being honest about it now. I wasn't expecting Boris Johnson to reply. ????

I'm shouting at the telly - literally -my monitor is a 65" 4k TV !

[beautifulthailand99]

2 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Perhaps next time you could ask them, what is their personal benefit from leaving. Because my family and myself are suffering from the pound devaluation. Some might be financially able to weather the storm, others are not in that situation - or couldn't care less.

 

But it's not just about financial capability. It's more to do with tangible benefits of leaving the EU that are realised post Brexit - if it happens.. As at now, forgive me for saying, I have not seen or read any that would benefit me or my UK family. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

 

 

Don't worry you'll only have to suffer for a few years until England(sic) reaches the promised land. ????????????

[AlexRich]

3 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Not in the least worried. We dealing with the political equivalent of heroin detoxification. These 20 traitors love the EU so much more than than their own counties and constituents.

 

Onward and forward we go to freedom Oct. 31st!

Another TV Brexiteer prediction that will fail to pass.

 

 

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

LOL ... old people smashing up tea rooms, and wastrels setting fire to the Benefits office? I’m scared.

 

You don’t need to be scared of that happening. But you should be very worried about the outcome of a General Election. The majority of M.p’s are.

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Don't worry you'll only have to suffer for a few years until England(sic) reaches the promised land. ????????????

That's if I live that long. Seeing the leavers posts above makes me wonder at the mentality of what they would personally benefit from leaving. Zilch?

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

He probably was sent the information from a very nice lady who sent him personal messages on Facebook. (a.k.a Dominic Cummings and AIQ. The "European Army" was the giveaway, complete fiction often quoted in many of the 60 million+ PMs sent by AIQ and Cambridge Analytica.)

 

Spambots, the new democracy.

 

 

 

 

=

 

 

The creation of a E.u army is fiction, better have words with your masters In Brussels.

 

 

 

[nontabury]

7 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

If we have an election after October 31st, highly likely, and we haven't left the EU, increasingly likely, Faerage has vowed to contest every seat. It's been shown in previous elections that Brexit/UKIP primarily takes votes from the Tories. Given the above scenario, this would be even more true in an upcoming election. This will split the Tory vote asunder and could possibly leave them as the 3rd party.

 

 

 The Brexit party takes at least 1/3 rd of its vote from traditional Labour voters. It would probably gain more, except for the fact that many Labour supporters are still under the illusion that the Labour Party represents them.

[stephenterry]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

You don’t need to be scared of that happening. But you should be very worried about the outcome of a General Election. The majority of M.p’s are.

I couldn't care a brass monkeys about MPs. All I care about is my family and the repercussions of a no-deal. I would like to wager that no-one on this forum would be disadvantaged by remaining in the EU but the opposite by leaving..

[johnnybangkok]

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

That's if I live that long. Seeing the leavers posts above makes me wonder at the mentality of what they would personally benefit from leaving. Zilch?

We have asked Leavers about the benefits many, many times. 

It's got something to do with getting back the sovereignty we never lost; not cowtowing to a 'Federalist Super State' (despite said superstate working very well for the man on the street) and of course their old favourite of taking charge of our borders even though we've always been in charge of them.

That's about it.

[bangrak]

11 hours ago, Basil B said:

As Corbyn put it, he can have his General Election when a No Deal Brexit has been stopped.

 

Seems BoJo has just dug a big hole for himself by stating tomorrow "he will call for a General Election", and he will be defeated on that too.

 

The Opposition benches getting very crowded...

  

Aah, when Corbyn would have the modesty and intelligence to step back a bit, officially declaring he would not want to become the next PM, I guess the steamroll gathering speed towards the Conservative ranks would be even larger...

[stephenterry]

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

We have asked Leavers about the benefits many, many times. 

It's got something to do with getting back the sovereignty we never lost; not cowtowing to a 'Federalist Super State' (despite said superstate working very well for the man on the street) and of course their old favourite of taking charge of our borders even though we've always been in charge of them.

That's about it.

Quite. But more than that - what would they personally benefit from leaving? Higher prices of food and petrol, unavailability of goods and medicines, loss of jobs - good grief I could go on ad infinitum.

[bangrak]

9 hours ago, sammieuk1 said:

Looks like Halloween's come early for Boris the country and me as this cycle of $hit continues???? 

It's not fair to write that, I know what you mean! BoJo did not choose to have a head like a pumpkin! LOL

[dunroaming]

7 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Perhaps next time you could ask them, what is their personal benefit from leaving. Because my family and myself are suffering from the pound devaluation. Some might be financially able to weather the storm, others are not in that situation - or couldn't care less.

 

But it's not just about financial capability. It's more to do with tangible benefits of leaving the EU that are realised post Brexit - if it happens.. As at now, forgive me for saying, I have not seen or read any that would benefit me or my UK family. Quite the opposite, in fact. 

 

 

I think my leaver friends are misguided and they still believe some of the rubbish they were told by the leave campaigners. They are employees in companies not affected by Brexit and are fortunate enough to be financially secure.  Like many Brexiteers they find it hard accept that they were lied to.  But we were all lied to. 

 

The vast majority of people I know in the UK are adversely affected by Brexit, particularly those with their own businesses. I reluctantly moved my UK based business to mainland Europe some months ago whilst still living here.  Brexit is bad news for me on many levels although I have to say operating from mainland Europe has worked out very well, so far.

 

I completely understand your situation, it reflexes my own. I was able to move and now use the Euro as my trading currency, Without that I would not be able to survive.  But I don't blame my neighbours, we all get suckered in occasionally.  The local MP here is the obnoxious Demonic (sic) Raab.  Even my leaver neighbours relish the time they can vote him out!

[bangrak]

8 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

No

...Aren't you lying, Jip99?

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

We have asked Leavers about the benefits many, many times. 

It's got something to do with getting back the sovereignty we never lost; not cowtowing to a 'Federalist Super State' (despite said superstate working very well for the man on the street) and of course their old favourite of taking charge of our borders even though we've always been in charge of them.

That's about it.

You are right and all of the above were the cries of the leave campaigners, all hype to make people vote to leave.  It worked, so those who voted that way have to stick to the same script, even though it was all just rubbish.  Better to keep your head in the sand than admit you got it wrong.

[bangrak]

8 hours ago, sungod said:

Corbyn changes his tune with the weather........

 

Considering the weather in Britain is considered to be quite stable, with over 200 days a year cloudy skies and rain, I'm afraid you are giving Mr Corbyn just a little too much credit here. LOL

[Joinaman]

8 hours ago, bannork said:

The consequences of a no deal Brexit are far more frightening than the anger of ill-informed leavers who don't realise how difficult it will be to set up new trading deals post no deal Brexit.

would appreciate it very much if you could give me the facts to back up your statement

Could you give me the true facts on the consequences of leaving, as opposed to the consequences of staying ?

I her so may people saying how really bad it will be to leave, but unsurprisingly , they can never back this up with any facts

Even our so called M Ps can not give true facts about the cost of leaving, against the true cost of staying

Can you, or is it just your misguided opinion 

Why can you all be honest and state the truth, you have no idea what will happen if we leave, and why do you refuse to accept the changes and costs that the Lisbon treaty will make on the UK

 

[JamesBlond]

Calling an election won't solve anything. A far better expedient (as I said elsewhere) is a referendum on whether to a) exit with no deal now or b) exit only after a further period of negotiation. I would amend b) to add that if no new deal is forthcoming within a certain period, then Britain should exit using the deal that parliament already rejected.

 

That is the only thing that will flat-out solve the problem without compromising democratic principles.

The solution is perfectly appropriate given the gravity of the situation, especially given the predictability of riots if Brexit is not delivered. I guess the only reason Johnson hasn't gone for it is that it hasn't occurred to him. Later he will be kicking himself.