Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

OK. Try this. Only 56 pages. Withdrawal agreement for dummies.14_November_Explainer_for_the_agreement_on_the_withdrawal_of_the_United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_and_Northern_Ireland_from_the_European_Union.pdf

Why dont you read the 700 page report and write your reply , say , a 300 page report in your own words  ?

[7by7]

7 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No , I wont be reading it or making any comment , its tediously boring and its even more tediously boring after continually being asked the same question many times in the past year .

 

Having asked for the details of the agreement you are now bottling the issue; what a surprise; not!

 

You are basically saying that you are against something that you know nothing about; which is not unusual amongst Brexiteers.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Why dont you read the 700 page report and write your reply , say , a 300 page report in your own words  ?

The withdrawal agreement is 600 pages. If I wrote a 300 page report, you couldn't/wouldn't read it anyway.

 

You can't even manage the 56 page report that I've posted for you.

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

The withdrawal agreement is 600 pages. If I wrote a 300 page report, you couldn't/wouldn't read it anyway.

 

You can't even manage the 56 page report that I've posted for you.

I promise that I will read your 300 page report and I will reply to that.

How long do you think it will take you to write it ?

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Brexit means Brexit.  What more do you need?

Until the EU sign up to that, we will forever be blocked by their intransigence.

 The EU's intransigence?

 

They negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the UK government, but due to people like Rees-Mogg putting self before country that was voted down in Parliament.

 

They agreed an extension so Parliament could decide what it wanted.

 

They waited while the Tories elected a new leader.

 

They waited for that leader to come to them with proposals for a new agreement; especially on the backstop.

 

They are still waiting for those proposals.

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I promise that I will read your 300 page report and I will reply to that.

How long do you think it will take you to write it ?

 Why not read the one page summary I posted earlier; here it is again: Brexit: what is the withdrawal agreement?

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

Having asked for the details of the agreement you are now bottling the issue; what a surprise; not!

You misunderstood my post , I cannot be bothered to explain to you what the word 'someone' means .( 'Someone"doesnt mean myself , it means someone else,other than me)

[StreetCowboy]

16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The EU's intransigence?

 

They negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the UK government, but due to people like Rees-Mogg putting self before country that was voted down in Parliament.

 

They agreed an extension so Parliament could decide what it wanted.

 

They waited while the Tories elected a new leader.

 

They waited for that leader to come to them with proposals for a new agreement; especially on the backstop.

 

They are still waiting for those proposals.

700 pages of waffle.  Until the EU admits that Brexit means Brexit they will forever be the stumbling point to the triumph of our Great Nation.

 

Boris realised this, and understood that, as the Brexity of Brexiteers, he had a job for life, so long as he could prevent us leaving the EU.  

 

Good job, Boris!

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 It is strange that Brexiteers all say that they have previously given detailed lists of what was wrong with May's deal, but can never remember what even one thing on that list!

 

So you tell us, why has Johnson gone to great lengths to prevent MPs discussing any plans he may have: proroguing Parliament, expelling MPs from the party, threatening deselection of Tory MPs, trying to call an election, instead of even starting talks with the EU?

 

Or have you already answered that question?

You have already called me a liar. You did not ask for a detailed list. Now you want more answers to a completely different question. Your whole line is jagged. 

[nauseus]

34 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

700 pages of waffle.  Until the EU admits that Brexit means Brexit they will forever be the stumbling point to the triumph of our Great Nation.

 

Boris realised this, and understood that, as the Brexity of Brexiteers, he had a job for life, so long as he could prevent us leaving the EU.  

 

Good job, Boris!

 

Have another one!

 

On me ????

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Have another one!

 

On me ????

Done

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

No , you made the suggestion that Ferage wants the UK to remain in the EU , so that he can continue to receive an MEP salary

No. You said ' we should have been out the day after the referendum' I said, not 7by7, 'can not, Farage et all want their EU money'.

No suggestion at all about remaining.

[beautifulthailand99]

The best summation of all this I have ever read. Though unfortunately doesn't yet cover the Johnson debacle or his incarceration at His Majesty's Pleasure where he could in theory share a cell with the other Brextremist and contempt of courter cokefiend 'Our Tommy'. 

 

“”How foul this referendum is. The most depressing, divisive, duplicitous political event of my lifetime. May there never be another.
—Robert Harris, throwing some sense into the situation[1]
“”The context of the referendum meant that it was always going to be a choice of evils: between the racism and bigotry that animated so much of the Leave campaign, and the neoliberalism of both the Cameron government and the EU. The option of a social democratic, or even soft neoliberal, EU was not on the ballot.

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Brexit

Edited September 7, 2019 by beautifulthailand99

[Jip99]

31 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

The best summation of all this I have ever read. Though unfortunately doesn't yet cover the Johnson debacle or his incarceration at His Majesty's Pleasure where he could in theory share a cell with the other Brextremist and contempt of courter cokefiend 'Our Tommy'. 

 

“”How foul this referendum is. The most depressing, divisive, duplicitous political event of my lifetime. May there never be another.
—Robert Harris, throwing some sense into the situation[1]
“”The context of the referendum meant that it was always going to be a choice of evils: between the racism and bigotry that animated so much of the Leave campaign, and the neoliberalism of both the Cameron government and the EU. The option of a social democratic, or even soft neoliberal, EU was not on the ballot.

 

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Brexit

 

 

If I can’t use remoaner, you certainly can’t use Brextremist.

[beautifulthailand99]

11 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

If I can’t use remoaner, you certainly can’t use Brextremist.

Dear Mr Jip - I am using in the context of Tommy Robinson rather than throwing dirt at any of the honourable members of both sides that inhabit these board. God forbid I would do that !

 

Yours sincerely 

 

Mr BT99

 

P.S we share the same 99 surname how uncanny !

 

Time for our very own loveable Graham Norton to put it all in context for our American friends. 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Until the EU admits that Brexit means Brexit they will forever be the stumbling point to the triumph of our Great Nation.

7 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Until the EU sign up to that, we will forever be blocked by their intransigence.

Brexit is your project alone. The EU doesn’t have to do anything. If you can’t get your shxt together that’s your problem. 

[transam]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Brexit is your project alone. The EU doesn’t have to do anything. If you can’t get your shxt together that’s your problem. 

But the UK is dealing with shxt....

[bannork]

2 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Brexit is your project alone. The EU doesn’t have to do anything. If you can’t get your shxt together that’s your problem. 

I think SC was extracting the urine.

[GalaxyMan]

Streetcowboy posted: Until the EU admits that Brexit means Brexit they will forever be the stumbling point to the triumph of our Great Nation.

 

You really are living in the past. There's very little great about the UK/Britain anymore these days. The only thing you really HAD recently was being the banking center of Europe. Now that's gone. No more automotive industry, you sold that to the Germans. No more manufacturing of anything, that's gone to wherever. What have you got left, some beer, some decent cheeses? Your royals consorting with American pedophiles. Nice job all in all. A lot to be proud of. At least you have your ancient history. You and the French can cry over a glass of Sherry together as you reminisce about what was. While I'd probably be for Brexit were I British, I'd want it to be done intelligently, not like the bunch of fat, stupid babies screaming in the dirty bath water that you've got now. Blaming the EU because you can't break up nicely. The ball is NOT in their court. This mess is of your own making and you should be dealing with it, not being...Boris!

[nauseus]

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 It is strange that Brexiteers all say that they have previously given detailed lists of what was wrong with May's deal, but can never remember what even one thing on that list!

 

So you tell us, why has Johnson gone to great lengths to prevent MPs discussing any plans he may have: proroguing Parliament, expelling MPs from the party, threatening deselection of Tory MPs, trying to call an election, instead of even starting talks with the EU?

 

Or have you already answered that question?

I didn't say that I couldn't remember. I said that I had posted a list.

 

I, as everyone else, cannot know the answers to the list on your next question(s). That is because we are not privy to that information. I can only comment that the important details of any Brexit plans have been hidden from the outset and Boris would want to keep it that way. The rest has been done to counter the coup that BJ is obviously facing now. He can't try to go for another negotiation on the "deal" after the actions of this remain-biased parliament - his hands are tied now - the EU knows that he is bound to ask for yet another extension and will not care to talk.

 

So requesting an election is the only course left to him. He needs to try to get a majority back. "Do or die" I think he said?

[david555]

 

Another blow for the bully man...

 

Toby Helm, Michael Savage, Andrew Rawnsley and Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Sun 8 Sep 2019 00.49 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/amber-rudd-resigns-from-cabinet-and-surrenders-conservative-whip

Amber Rudd quits cabinet and attacks PM for 'political vandalism'

Work and pensions secretary also leaves parliamentary Conservative party and sends excoriating letter to No 10

Boris Johnson’s government was in danger of imploding last night as the work and pensions secretary, Amber Rudd, dramatically quit the cabinet and resigned the Conservative whip, saying should could not “stand by” while “loyal moderate MPs” were purged from the party.

In a devastating resignation letter, she accused the prime minister of “an assault on decency and democracy” and “an act of political vandalism” for sacking 21 of her Tory colleagues for backing a parliamentary bill to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Rudd told Johnson she had joined his cabinet “in good faith accepting that no deal had to be on the table”. She added: “However, I no longer believe leaving with a deal is the government’s main objective.”

 

more...

Edited September 8, 2019 by david555

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

 

Another blow for the bully man...

 

Toby Helm, Michael Savage, Andrew Rawnsley and Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Sun 8 Sep 2019 00.49 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/amber-rudd-resigns-from-cabinet-and-surrenders-conservative-whip

Amber Rudd quits cabinet and attacks PM for 'political vandalism'

Work and pensions secretary also leaves parliamentary Conservative party and sends excoriating letter to No 10

Boris Johnson’s government was in danger of imploding last night as the work and pensions secretary, Amber Rudd, dramatically quit the cabinet and resigned the Conservative whip, saying should could not “stand by” while “loyal moderate MPs” were purged from the party.

In a devastating resignation letter, she accused the prime minister of “an assault on decency and democracy” and “an act of political vandalism” for sacking 21 of her Tory colleagues for backing a parliamentary bill to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Rudd told Johnson she had joined his cabinet “in good faith accepting that no deal had to be on the table”. She added: “However, I no longer believe leaving with a deal is the government’s main objective.”

 

more...

"OMG, how are we going to manage without Amber Rudd, said no-one ever" ........(James Delingpole tweeted)

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

"OMG, how are we going to manage without Amber Rudd, said no-one ever" ........(James Delingpole tweeted)

Sorry never heard of James Delingpole. How old is he, 9 3/4?

 

He needs to learn the same lesson that most brexiteers need to learn....attack the post not the poster.

[david555]

A quote out of same article …… is it starting ..?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/amber-rudd-resigns-from-cabinet-and-surrenders-conservative-whip

 

"Yesterday, as violence broke out near parliament as a pro-Brexit protest confronted a Remain march, Downing Street said Johnson remained defiant."

[Nigel Garvie]

17 minutes ago, david555 said:

 

Another blow for the bully man...

 

Toby Helm, Michael Savage, Andrew Rawnsley and Daniel Boffey in Brussels

Sun 8 Sep 2019 00.49 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/amber-rudd-resigns-from-cabinet-and-surrenders-conservative-whip

Amber Rudd quits cabinet and attacks PM for 'political vandalism'

Work and pensions secretary also leaves parliamentary Conservative party and sends excoriating letter to No 10

Boris Johnson’s government was in danger of imploding last night as the work and pensions secretary, Amber Rudd, dramatically quit the cabinet and resigned the Conservative whip, saying should could not “stand by” while “loyal moderate MPs” were purged from the party.

In a devastating resignation letter, she accused the prime minister of “an assault on decency and democracy” and “an act of political vandalism” for sacking 21 of her Tory colleagues for backing a parliamentary bill to stop a no-deal Brexit.

Rudd told Johnson she had joined his cabinet “in good faith accepting that no deal had to be on the table”. She added: “However, I no longer believe leaving with a deal is the government’s main objective.”

 

more...

Indeed, this may be a TV topic on it's own. There will be more resignations to come, many Tories actually have principles of sorts.

 

I am not an expert on Parliamentary history, but surely this has to go down as the worst first week any PM has ever had. How many more defeats can he stand. I think the most astonishing thing is to read the headlines in the Mail, Sun, Express (Journalism's answer to Rabies) and the Telegraph. Imagine you were a loyal reader, and you reached the end of the week believing that nothing had gone wrong with the glorious march towards Brexit, and the only thing of note was that Corbyn was a chicken. Then you gradually became aware through other sources that it had actually been a Weekus Horribilis (To misquote HM) for Boris. Would you not feel that the "Newspaper" that you had been reading, had betrayed you by hiding the actual news from you. 

Boris's problem is that nobody believes anymore that he is having serious negotiations with the EU about a deal, it's all pretense. So claiming that ruling out No Deal is effecting negotiations, is obviously complete BS, there are no  meaningful ones, as Amber Rudd implies. Now they are planning to put up a challenger to Bercow at the next election, entirely against convention. This is petty, vindictive, and pointless, Dom and Bojo at their shallow - probably drunken, worst.

 

Brexiteers should look at BoJo's face, and ask yourself in all honesty if this is really the man that is going to lead you to the promised land. 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I didn't say that I couldn't remember. I said that I had posted a list.

 

I, as everyone else, cannot know the answers to the list on your next question(s). That is because we are not privy to that information. I can only comment that the important details of any Brexit plans have been hidden from the outset and Boris would want to keep it that way. The rest has been done to counter the coup that BJ is obviously facing now. He can't try to go for another negotiation on the "deal" after the actions of this remain-biased parliament - his hands are tied now - the EU knows that he is bound to ask for yet another extension and will not care to talk.

 

So requesting an election is the only course left to him. He needs to try to get a majority back. "Do or die" I think he said?

B Johnson end game is winning a general election while seeing off the Brexit Party.

He will return after requesting an extension and put forward Mays deal , backstop tweaked.

He hopes Parliament ratifies the deal abd the UK leaves on time.

The GE will take place and while committed Brexit party supporters will vote for Farage the other non committed relieved that Brexit over will return to their normal voting intentions.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Sorry never heard of James Delingpole. How old is he, 9 3/4?

 

He needs to learn the same lesson that most brexiteers need to learn....attack the post not the poster.

Lets see how that works....

..when KH is the poster 

Edited September 8, 2019 by evadgib

[DannyCarlton]

18 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Brexiteers should look at BoJo's face, and ask yourself in all honesty if this is really the man that is going to lead you to the promised land. 

Well, I wouldn't buy a used car from him!

[puck2]

3 hours ago, transam said:

But the UK is dealing with shxt....

 

You forgot to add:   own (shxt)

[nauseus]

50 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

B Johnson end game is winning a general election while seeing off the Brexit Party.

He will return after requesting an extension and put forward Mays deal , backstop tweaked.

He hopes Parliament ratifies the deal abd the UK leaves on time.

The GE will take place and while committed Brexit party supporters will vote for Farage the other non committed relieved that Brexit over will return to their normal voting intentions.

Well, you might be right. However, if he gets "May's" deal over the line then I would expect that the amount of tweaking that might go with it will be severely limited and that will restrict the amount of success he may get in seeing off the Brexit Party. In this case, then the leavers may split in protest and the outcome will probably be some kind of ghastly coalition (not sure who might form it). Then the UK will be bogged down for even longer.