Pattaya is Dead - Lowest Foreigner Visits This Winter

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

And in general it seems girls want higher "tips" than before. Quite a bit more demanding. Bangkok rates.

There is no shortage of places where the girls have a preferred customer base and others might well be ignored. I just don't waste my time and money going in them... usually in the higher price brackets too. The girl has a right to choose who her companion out will be... she lied in an attempt to save face for him.

 

You can tell it is low season when you get a smile in Baccara!

Edited September 14, 2019 by jacko45k

[Ling Kae]

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

It's already happening. We were in Pattaya last week and went to a gogo bar that's always full of Chinese, my friend saw a girl there who was gorgeous (according to him - I didn't find her attractive), but she was busy with Chinese customers every single time we went there. Eventually one night we stayed for a long time and she freed up to come have a drink with him. She wasn't friendly and you could tell she doesn't like him, and when he said he wanted to bar fine her she said she doesn't do bar fines! Complete <deleted> as ANY girl who works in a gogo does it, she just didn't like him and/or thought he'd pay less money than an Asian guy would. I should mention that he is a white American guy in his 30's and quite attractive - she didn't like him simply because he wasn't Asian.

 

 

 

And in general it seems girls want higher "tips" than before. Quite a bit more demanding. Bangkok rates.

I go to go go bars all the time and i have never ever seen one full of Chinese.  However 1 in particular in walking street is full of Koreans. Different people all together. Chinese very rarely go into go go bars unless their drinks are pre paid and then they sip that 1 bottle of beer through a straw. Koreans on the other hand are loaded and throw money at the girls.

[spidermike007]

He states the primary reasons are:

 

1. Currency - Thai baht is too high against European currencies plus Thai prices have increased quickly, far above inflation.

2. Immigration issues - strict enforcement, refusal of entry with visa, new rules, TM30 fines to foreigners instead of Thai house masters, etc.

3. Poor and uncertain economic conditions in Europe

 

And I would add:

 

4. A racist and xenophobic administration, that makes it very apparent that they favor Asians over Westerners.

 

5. An administration that is constantly talking about how bad foreigners are, and announcing continued crackdowns against them. Racist ranting from the government, often directed at tourists and ex-pats and a nonsensical nationalistic agenda, that is pure politics.

 

6. The utter refusal to address a dire public safety and traffic safety situation, that borders on a national emergency.

 

7. The inability to tackle the scams plaguing this nation.

 

8. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage, reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills.

 

9. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.

  

10. Their refusal to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here.

 

11. The refusal to lower luxury taxes, which along with the scrapping of the inane wine bill, would attract wealthy tourists, who want to spend money while on vacation, but will not spend triple on a handbag, as they would nearly everywhere else. Thailand has some of the highest luxury taxes in the world.

 

12. The extreme lack of knowledge at high end restaurants, when it comes to the wine list. This is a huge turnoff for rich tourists.

 

13. The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. The neighboring countries are benefitting from all of the mistakes Thailand is making. But, they are also trying much harder, and are far smarter with their policies. They deserve the gains. 

 

14. The lack of a competent and effective police force, that foreigners can count on, when they need them.

 

15. The environmental issues, and so many other causes, are all having an impact on tourism. 

 

16. The inept military government, who nobody likes, and most people despise.

 

17. Haphazard and xenophobic immigration policy, meant to deter tourism, and ex-pats, rather than encourage them. Major goons in charge like the biggest joke and little Oud. 

 

Alot of these are simply examples of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, are not helping the tourism market on any level, but rather killing a major cash cow, and punishing millions of Thais as a result. These inept leaders are not benefitting the people of Thailand one iota. 

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

18 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

He states the primary reasons are:

 

1. Currency - Thai baht is too high against European currencies plus Thai prices have increased quickly, far above inflation.

2. Immigration issues - strict enforcement, refusal of entry with visa, new rules, TM30 fines to foreigners instead of Thai house masters, etc.

3. Poor and uncertain economic conditions in Europe

 

And I would add:

 

4. A racist and xenophobic administration, that makes it very apparent that they favor Asians over Westerners.

 

5. An administration that is constantly talking about how bad foreigners are, and announcing continued crackdowns against them. Racist ranting from the government, often directed at tourists and ex-pats and a nonsensical nationalistic agenda, that is pure politics.

 

6. The utter refusal to address a dire public safety and traffic safety situation, that borders on a national emergency.

 

7. The inability to tackle the scams plaguing this nation.

 

8. Thailand thought the country was something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, many in this region, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage, reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills.

 

9. Thailand simply lost sight of the big picture, and had very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned.

  

10. Their refusal to repeal the anti faring wine bill, that was passed by a few very corrupt senators way back when, to protect an anemic local wine industry. They are losing billions of dollars a year in revenue, that would be had from a 100% wine duty, instead of 460%. The five star hotels would have major wine events, and the entire industry would flourish here.

 

11. The refusal to lower luxury taxes, which along with the scrapping of the inane wine bill, would attract wealthy tourists, who want to spend money while on vacation, but will not spend triple on a handbag, as they would nearly everywhere else. Thailand has some of the highest luxury taxes in the world.

 

12. The extreme lack of knowledge at high end restaurants, when it comes to the wine list. This is a huge turnoff for rich tourists.

 

13. The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. The neighboring countries are benefitting from all of the mistakes Thailand is making. But, they are also trying much harder, and are far smarter with their policies. They deserve the gains. 

 

14. The lack of a competent and effective police force, that foreigners can count on, when they need them.

 

15. The environmental issues, and so many other causes, are all having an impact on tourism. 

 

16. The inept military government, who nobody likes, and most people despise.

 

17. Haphazard and xenophobic immigration policy, meant to deter tourism, and ex-pats, rather than encourage them. Major goons in charge like the biggest joke and little Oud. 

 

Alot of these are simply examples of brain dead leaders, who have no vision, and are NOT leading the nation forward, are not helping the nation to progress, are not helping the tourism market on any level, but rather killing a major cash cow, and punishing millions of Thais as a result. These inept leaders are not benefitting the people of Thailand one iota. 

 

 

Much of what you say is true as per deficiencies in Thailand. However not one one of them affects tourism in any way.

 

Without going through your whole list and debunking it, let me take one example (more than one actually 10 and 12). I know of no one ever who has chosen Thailand as a holiday destination to sample the wine, nor do I know of anyone who has decided to not holiday in Thailand because of the cost of wine.

 

If you want to whine about the cost of wine, as you do, find another thread, it's inappropriate in this thread.

 

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by DannyCarlton

[theonetrueaussie]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:23 AM, MadMuhammad said:

Pretty ill informed of you to tell them that. The people being weeded out and denied are the constant extenders and people obviously living in country on tourist and ED visas. ‘Genuine’ tourists will have no issue whatsoever 

And what is considered a genuine tourist...someone that stay 2 weeks, 3 months...what, There is no definition and no clear set of rules saying you can only spend so much time in thailand, it is up to the IO on the day. Many friends message me because they see I have stayed in thailand before and when searching thailand in google they have seen all the visa problems and denials from people who had visas. 

Most westerners think "A visa from an embassy guarantees you entry as the embassy vetted the person thoroughly" so them entering with a visa on arrival is super risky. I have never heard of anyone with an actual visa denied entry into a western country! They would rather not take the risk and head to vietnam or bali where it is guaranteed entry and no risk of denial at the airports...or at least not frequently reported as we are seeing with thailand currently.

Edited September 14, 2019 by theonetrueaussie

[kinyara]

5 hours ago, shdmn said:

???  There have always been For Sale/Rent signs up all over the place in the decades I have been coming.  I guess you just haven't noticed.

 

Of course there has always been For Sale/Rent signs up in the past but it's the sheer number of them everywhere around currently that marks a difference in my opinion. 

[Ling Kae]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Much of what you say is true as per deficiencies in Thailand. However not one one of them affects tourism in any way.

 

Without going through your whole list and debunking it, let me take one example (more than one actually 10 and 12). I know of no one ever who has chosen Thailand as a holiday destination to sample the wine, nor do I know of anyone who has decided to not holiday in Thailand because of the cost of wine.

 

If you want to whine about the cost of wine, as you do, find another thread, it's inappropriate in this thread.

 

 

He has every right to post as he has on this forum. It all pertians to why "Pattaya is dead". I'm glad he has shared the facts with the forum. Keep on sharing @spidermike007 well done.

[tropo]

On 9/12/2019 at 11:08 AM, NCC1701A said:

white people numbers might be down, and businesses setup to cater to them might be suffering, but Chinese and Indians are still coming.

 

#2 does not apply to real tourists. first time visitors or once every few years with a very long return to home country not affected.

 

there is a a lot of buzz right now about a global recession. people don't go on vacation.

 

UK is on a war footing with fear and paranoia about shortages and civil unrest. 

I agree, and as far as Australians and New Zealanders are concerned, if their numbers have plummeted, it's the exchange rate of 19 - 21 baht keeping them away, which has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand.

 

As far as the comment that prices have risen quickly - this is simply untrue. Due to the economic climate, you can get amazing deals in Pattaya. Accommodation and food can be obtained for bargain prices. You just need to know where to go. Let's look at some stables, such as milk, rice, chicken and bread. They've been the same price for years. Stay away from imported foods and you'll be living cheap. Bargains can be obtained everywhere.

 

Even with a poor exchange rate, it's still a cheap place to visit.

 

 

[Leaver]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

I agree, and as far as Australians and New Zealanders are concerned, if their numbers have plummeted, it's the exchange rate of 19 - 21 baht keeping them away, which has absolutely nothing to do with Thailand.

 

As far as the comment that prices have risen quickly - this is simply untrue. Due to the economic climate, you can get amazing deals in Pattaya. Accommodation and food can be obtained for bargain prices. You just need to know where to go. Let's look at some stables, such as milk, rice, chicken and bread. They've been the same price for years. Stay away from imported foods and you'll be living cheap. Bargains can be obtained everywhere.

 

Even with a poor exchange rate, it's still a cheap place to visit.

 

 

In general, most tourists don't go away on holiday to eat chicken and bread and drink milk.

 

The tax on alcohol, particularly wine, is at a ridiculous level here.  Now add the exchange rate, and you can see Thailand has become an expensive holiday for many, when compared to nearby countries, and for some, even when compared to a holiday in their own country.  Since when can Thailand, a developing country, justify the same prices as a developed nation? 

 

So whilst Thailand is still a cheap place to visit, it has become not a cheap place to party, and to do many of the activities on offer here. 

[Rimmer]

A couple of posts have been removed.

 

Please also stop the off topic discussion about wine

[petermik]

23 hours ago, kinyara said:

 

Of course there has always been For Sale/Rent signs up in the past but it's the sheer number of them everywhere around currently that marks a difference in my opinion. 

Five years ago when I made the move here permanent I had to wait 3 months to get a room in what was then a very popular place.....I have seen the numbers decline in the last 12 months (mainly western tenants) where now it is only 60% occupied.....I walk along the beach 3/4 times a week and it is dead....friends of mine who have been coming for years are coming less often,the bar I frequent (non girlie) has never been as quiet in the 12 years I,ve been using it.

Many Aus and Brits are really struggling due to the baht`s strength,plenty of Arabs/Inians/Chinese wandering about....but not spending....yes Pattaya is very quiet

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, petermik said:

I had to wait 3 months to get a room in what was then a very popular place.....I have seen the numbers decline in the last 12 months (mainly western tenants) where now it is only 60% occupied..

I gather this building caters mainly for expat retirees, not tourists. If that's the case, the 40% vacancy rate touches on a different issue.

 

Firstly, natural attrition (death) of older expats is to be expected, as that day will come for all of us.

 

The thing is, your post shows they are not being replaced in the numbers they used to be.  This has been the case over the last few years, but the current situation, especially with visas, may see the next generation of retirees completely detour Thailand for other destinations.

 

Whilst retirees don't represent a big part of the revenue, they do have to reside somewhere, so you can probably expect your building to go down to 30% to 40% occupancy. 

 

Picture the Pattaya property market 5 years from now. 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, petermik said:

Five years ago when I made the move here permanent I had to wait 3 months to get a room in what was then a very popular place.....I have seen the numbers decline in the last 12 months (mainly western tenants) where now it is only 60% occupied.....I walk along the beach 3/4 times a week and it is dead....friends of mine who have been coming for years are coming less often,the bar I frequent (non girlie) has never been as quiet in the 12 years I,ve been using it.

Many Aus and Brits are really struggling due to the baht`s strength,plenty of Arabs/Inians/Chinese wandering about....but not spending....yes Pattaya is very quiet

Don't forget what month it is. We are between seasons. It's quiet,but that's "almost" normal for September. Many expats from the UK and Australia struggles because of loss of income letters/affidavits from their embassies,and in combination with the strong baht.

 

[kingofthemountain]

48 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Don't forget what month it is. We are between seasons. It's quiet,but that's "almost" normal for September. Many expats from the UK and Australia struggles because of loss of income letters/affidavits from their embassies,and in combination with the strong baht.

 

The ''traditionnal'' Pattaya as the majority of us have know is quiet since 1 year

with only a small increase in last december and january.

 

The ''new'' Pattaya is pretty busy,

with indians walking everywhere in the middle of the streets and obviously buying/eating drinking nothing 

except some girls on beach road and in massage parlor for the most fortunate

and a bunch of chineses walking up and down WS like herds of buffalo 

doing the street traffic and air pollution a nightmare with all their buses

and they are only a bargain for some hotels and sea food restaurants 

(Like those moored off the Bali pier dock)

 

let's see what the next ''high season'' is going to be

but i am pretty sure some more papers ''for rent\for sale'' are coming soon

[fhickson]

22 hours ago, DannyCarlton said:

I know of no one ever who has chosen Thailand as a holiday destination to sample the wine, nor do I know of anyone who has decided to not holiday in Thailand because of the cost of wine.

 

If you want to whine about the cost of wine, as you do, find another thread, it's inappropriate in this thread.

 

 

haha would agree 100%

 

there is a subset in thailand who 'do a wine thing' here

 

had a neighbor who did this who i knew well. what was really going on is he was trying to like thailand, but deep down wished he was still in paris.

 

he figured it out eventually and relocated. see him every now as and again and we go for a beer.

 

cravings and food issues can be telling you more then it appears.

[fhickson]

On 9/14/2019 at 12:24 PM, PingRoundTheWorld said:

It's already happening. We were in Pattaya last week and went to a gogo bar that's always full of Chinese, my friend saw a girl there who was gorgeous (according to him - I didn't find her attractive), but she was busy with Chinese customers every single time we went there. Eventually one night we stayed for a long time and she freed up to come have a drink with him. She wasn't friendly and you could tell she doesn't like him, and when he said he wanted to bar fine her she said she doesn't do bar fines! Complete <deleted> as ANY girl who works in a gogo does it, she just didn't like him and/or thought he'd pay less money than an Asian guy would. I should mention that he is a white American guy in his 30's and quite attractive - she didn't like him simply because he wasn't Asian.

 

 

 

And in general it seems girls want higher "tips" than before. Quite a bit more demanding. Bangkok rates.

hes a handsome man. thats a new one.

 

i wonder why she did not choose him over an older uglier gent with money?

 

some book by stephen leather.

[tropo]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

In general, most tourists don't go away on holiday to eat chicken and bread and drink milk.

 

 

Actually, they do. You purposefully omitted rice from my list. Chicken and rice are probably 2 of the most popular foods that tourists eat. The point is that the price of local produce has not increased at all for years. 

 

Most tourist come here to experience the local cuisine. If tourists like to eat expensive imported foods, they can usually do quite well at various hotel buffets.

 

 

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

...

 

Most tourist come here to experience the local cuisine...

 

 

Are you kidding?

In Pattaya the thai restaurants are packed with thais people

the chineses enjoy the chineses restaurants (Specialy the seafood ones)

the indians.... mmm who know? (Probably most of the 7\11 food)

and the westerners are spayed all over the western restaurants

(Some exceptions as usual in each type)

 

[ThePioneer]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

The point is that the price of local produce has not increased at all for years. 

You are joking right?

 

Try to go get a Thai dish at one of those road restaurants, and see if you still get same price as a couple of years ago.

 

It is either significantly increased in price or the portions ( meats) are much smaller.

 

Go look at the supermarkets and see if local produce has not increased in price. I think big c has at least 10% added this year alone on most local produce

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, ThePioneer said:

....

It is either significantly increased in price or the portions ( meats) are much smaller...

unfortunely both

[fhickson]

3 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Are you kidding?

In Pattaya the thai restaurants are packed with thais people

the chineses enjoy the chineses restaurants (Specialy the seafood ones)

the indians.... mmm who know? (Probably most of the 7\11 food)

and the westerners are spayed all over the western restaurants

(Some exceptions as usual in each type)

 

correct. people say they come to experience different things, but with few exceptions gravitate to what is familiar.

[Ling Kae]

5 hours ago, tropo said:

Actually, they do. You purposefully omitted rice from my list. Chicken and rice are probably 2 of the most popular foods that tourists eat. The point is that the price of local produce has not increased at all for years. 

 

Most tourist come here to experience the local cuisine. If tourists like to eat expensive imported foods, they can usually do quite well at various hotel buffets.

 

 

I disagree with this. Prices for tourists have moved up across the board. Last year at the soi 19 markets food court a green curry chicken cost 70 baht. This year that same stall and that meal is 90 baht. The cold cooked food has gone up from 40 baht to 50 baht. 

 

Last year Frydays Fish and Chips was 100 baht, this year it is 125 baht.

 

5 years ago the buffet breakfast at LK Royal Suite was 150 baht. Then it jumped to 170 baht. Last year it was 200 baht, this year it is 250 baht. 

 

A pair of kito flip flops in big c has gone up from 299 baht last year to 349 this year

 

And don't mention toiletries like shaving cream.  It is 3 times more expensive here than in my home country!!!

 

The facts are that nearly everything is up 10 to 30% from last year.

 

The photo of the 175 ml shaving cream at big c shows the price of 219 baht.  That equals:

 

USD $7.30

GBP £6

AUD $10.50

 

Why is are prices going up so high?

 

 

[balo]

2 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

The photo of the 175 ml shaving cream at big c shows the price of 219 baht.  That equals:

 

USD $7.30

GBP £6

AUD $10.50

 

It cost around $3.50 in Norway, one of the most expensive countries in the world.  Any import is crazy expensive in Thailand.  

[tropo]

9 hours ago, ThePioneer said:

You are joking right?

 

Try to go get a Thai dish at one of those road restaurants, and see if you still get same price as a couple of years ago.

 

It is either significantly increased in price or the portions ( meats) are much smaller.

 

Go look at the supermarkets and see if local produce has not increased in price. I think big c has at least 10% added this year alone on most local produce

There has been no significant rise in the price of the food I purchase at supermarkets, and I do that 2 - 3 times a week, so perhaps you are joking?

[tropo]

 

9 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

Are you kidding?

In Pattaya the thai restaurants are packed with thais people

the chineses enjoy the chineses restaurants (Specialy the seafood ones)

the indians.... mmm who know? (Probably most of the 7\11 food)

and the westerners are spayed all over the western restaurants

(Some exceptions as usual in each type)

 

It seems you're the one who's kidding... Rice and chicken are eaten by all Asians and Indians. They all have their ways to cook local produce. 

[tropo]

5 hours ago, Ling Kae said:

I disagree with this. Prices for tourists have moved up across the board. Last year at the soi 19 markets food court a green curry chicken cost 70 baht. This year that same stall and that meal is 90 baht. The cold cooked food has gone up from 40 baht to 50 baht. 

 

Last year Frydays Fish and Chips was 100 baht, this year it is 125 baht.

 

5 years ago the buffet breakfast at LK Royal Suite was 150 baht. Then it jumped to 170 baht. Last year it was 200 baht, this year it is 250 baht. 

 

A pair of kito flip flops in big c has gone up from 299 baht last year to 349 this year

 

And don't mention toiletries like shaving cream.  It is 3 times more expensive here than in my home country!!!

 

The facts are that nearly everything is up 10 to 30% from last year.

 

The photo of the 175 ml shaving cream at big c shows the price of 219 baht.  That equals:

 

USD $7.30

GBP £6

AUD $10.50

 

Why is are prices going up so high?

 

 

Obviously you don't know where to find deals. I get 2 for one deals at many places around town. What you save on some items makes up for the odd price increase on others. You just need to know how to shop. Shaving foam has gone up. Really. One of those tubs lasts me many months, so the actual cost increase is minute. The foam I buy is the same price now as it was 3 years ago.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, ThePioneer said:

You are joking right?

I tend to agree... I live out of town and Mrs cooks dinner several days a week and I give her the money to pop to the local market. The amount has gone up about 50%... she has reduced shrimp regularity as those have been affected a lot. Also, we eat at quite a few local restaurants and my average bill is certainly up. Of course food prices are going up in baht terms.

[ThePioneer]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

There has been no significant rise in the price of the food I purchase at supermarkets, and I do that 2 - 3 times a week, so perhaps you are joking?

How strange that several others agree with me, but that only you don't. Another example of everyone can have an opinion as long as it is the same as mine I guess?

 

ALL bakery products in Big C extra increased by 10% the last month. 

 

Salad bar went from 190 Baht to 290 Baht, that is 50% increase.

 

That are no local produce?

 

Too many other local products to name increased either in price or mysteriously decreased in volume.

[Ling Kae]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

Obviously you don't know where to find deals. I get 2 for one deals at many places around town. What you save on some items makes up for the odd price increase on others. You just need to know how to shop. Shaving foam has gone up. Really. One of those tubs lasts me many months, so the actual cost increase is minute. The foam I buy is the same price now as it was 3 years ago.

You mentioned things that tourists do. Eating is a must and going to restaurants is common for them. They, generally do not cook in their hotel room. I gave direct responses of actual items in my post (food mostly) that has gone up significantly.  Tourists must pay this and it has increased dramatically. 

 

Looking at that photo of the shaving cream, note, the small one was 60 baht 2 years ago, now it is 89 baht.  That is an almost 50% increase in 2 years. 

 

The guy on the darkside who posted also cited heafty increases and cutting back on shrimp meals because shrimp prices have increased significantly. 

 

2 for for 1 deals on listerene or soap is not going to save anybody much at the check out at big c.

 

Prices are up, exchange rates are down, both are affecting tourist numbers significantly. 

[kingofthemountain]

4 hours ago, tropo said:

 

It seems you're the one who's kidding... Rice and chicken are eaten by all Asians and Indians. They all have their ways to cook local produce. 

Yes, they all eat rice and chicken

BUT i was quoting YOUR false assertion

''...Most tourist come here to experience the local cuisine....''

and again i am sorry but it is just not true

most tourist do not come to Pattaya  with the mean reason to experience the local cuisine

nor for the golf, the beach, the scuba diving or others pathetic alibi