Immigration chief: TM 30 law is outdated and needs to change

[Denim]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

The news will come as music to the ears of expats and retirees though it remains to be seen exactly what will change, notes Thaivisa.

 

Hmmmm....people always assume that something bad will be replaced by something better.

 

How pleased people were when the ' Arab spring ' began . That turned into many winters of discontent.

 

Best to wait and see before getting too excited . Might save you from a big disappointment.

[Fairynuff]

When it hits them in the pocket they don’t give a toss about losing face, they can work around that. International business and international media have been complaining. That IMO is what’s doing this.

[mlmcleod]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

BBC Thai said that Lt-Gen Sompong had called the 1979 regulations out of date and there needed to be changes to bring them in line with the modern day situation in Thailand.   

Yes, in order to control the huge influx of western criminals and terrorists, all TM-30 reports must be done with the owner/renter present in person as well as the renter.  A recent police report will be required, as well.

 

Catch 22 in Thailand is that every so-called improvement is actually a step back to 30's Germany during the NAZI regime.

[hotchilli]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

discussed with immigration as early as Friday (13 Sept). 

 

Just noticed the date !!!!

[55Jay]

4 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

I thought it was the immigration chief who (re)activated this 1979 law. Now the same person is saying it's outdated and needs to change?

This goat rope began more than 2 years ago - hot topic on TVF at the time.  Then it sort of drifted away as the "crack downs" often do, then boomeranged with emphasis on the TM30 this time around.

Edited September 12, 2019 by 55Jay

[atyclb]

i know expats that have left thailand not because of financial inability but the ever increasing BS and hassles. some leave solely as they cannot meet financial requirement while others just get tired of the hasslesn and would rather invest and spend their  money in a different country.`

 

i have . been city hopping in the philipines and without needing to visit immigration in every city. still no password after successful registration for online tm30.  why would chinese want to buy a retirement condo in thailand only to find themselves more tracked than they were by the communist chinese government?  potential expats from all nations feel the same way. 

Edited September 12, 2019 by atyclb

[ThaiLawOnline]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

I think the lesson was the one well known. Make Thais lose face by creating a viral social media campaign is the only thing that'll make them act.

There is another one, using the administrative court to enforce what the law already says.... or the constitutional court to contest a law. But right now, I rather prefer the administrative court. They are efficient but foreigners do not know how it works.

 

If anyone from the Thai administration, a policeman, someone working at the land department, or the labour department does NOT want to do his job or refuse something based on a reason not in the law, you can go to administrative court of your province, FREE OF CHARGE, they have negotiation and consultation and if it doesn't work, they make a decision. Each employee of the Thai government must respect the law. (Yes, I know, this is Thailand but I was successful twice in administrative court by suing immigration itself.).

[Chazar]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

Fix your hairpiece at the back as well as the front so it doesn't flop forward when you Wai.

I suspect it  was  more of a  curtsy and a trail of dribble, bit  like a  fat slug.

[Chazar]

1 minute ago, Isaanlawyers said:

There is another one, using the administrative court to enforce what the law already says.... or the constitutional court to contest a law. But right now, I rather prefer the administrative court. They are efficient but foreigners do not know how it works.

 

If anyone from the Thai administration, a policeman, someone working at the land department, or the labour department does NOT want to do his job or refuse something based on a reason not in the law, you can go to administrative court of your province, FREE OF CHARGE, they have negotiation and consultation and if it doesn't work, they make a decision. Each employee of the Thai government must respect the law. (Yes, I know, this is Thailand but I was successful twice in administrative court by suing immigration itself.).

Good to know thanks.

[Isaan sailor]

It won’t matter—if they keep taking in hot money inflows at BoT—they’ll have no more farangs to track...

[madmen]

4 hours ago, Chazar said:

Well lets  see but of course many TV members are too timid to fart in their own homes in case it breaks a law.

Well done to those of us that signed the petition, clearly those that trashed it got it wrong including those who hilariously thought they would get deported. Its still not to late every signature count's

[Brer]

Wonder what they think the modern day situation in Thailand is.

Does it mean a move to the 20th century. The 21st is a bit of a step to far. 

Just have to obey the rules whatever they are, only have to do a TM30 if we spend two nights away maybe, thats a big concession.

[ThomasThBKK]

24 minutes ago, Isaanlawyers said:

 

You don't seem to realize how much money is brought by foreigners in Thailand.... I knew, before I started the petition. I also knew that the GPD was going down, tourism was a problem, health care raised 12% in 12 years, population is aging and there are 3,7 million immigrants in Thailand, 3 millions being from Myanmar, Burma and Laos.

 

It was not a fishing expedition but an invitation to look at an old regulation that is outdated and does NOT help to secure Thailand for terrorism. We all knew but some people thought a foreigner in Thailand has no voice, can't do nothing and you can't change anything in the world. I believe the opposite if you unite. There are only 6,000 signatures. Where are the hundreds of thousands of foreigners living in the country that believe TM30 is absurd? Are you afraid to say that you also agree? If you want my personal opinion, COWARDS are people that found all the reasons in the world not to sign: The English is not perfect, there is no SSL certificate, You don't talk about health insurance, the government will get the list of these people, etc.

 

At least, I had the balls and few people owe me a beer for that! Don't you think? BTW, our small law firm with 6 employees helped to invest about 500 million baht in Nakhon Ratchasima in 13 years. This is what foreigners do in my area: Marry a Thai person, send money to Thailand, build houses, businesses, joint-venture, hire local staff and according to a study of KK university I think in 2014, create 800,000 jobs in Isaan.

 

Immigration knows my address for many, many years. TM30 pure bureaucracy that nobody will never check. Facebook, Google or Apple have better software to track people....

You can get a whole crate of beer from me, but only imported ones.

[wolf81]

4 hours ago, apalink_thailand said:

I think its more like the Immigration Department staff themselves who are complaining up the chain about all the excess paperwork. 

I though they loved paperwork?

Edited September 12, 2019 by wolf81

[LennyW]

25 minutes ago, metempsychotic said:

i dont see anything in this post that indicates positive change.

this merely pays lip service to the fact that the enforcement of a 40 year old law has received some outside attention.

Why would you.....it's not Friday yet, be patient!

[Parsve]

I don't really understand most of the people who write here. Why so negative about everything? Why not be positive and wait and see what these changes mean, that is if they happen within a reasonable time.

[Chazar]

27 minutes ago, Denim said:

 

Hmmmm....people always assume that something bad will be replaced by something better.

 

How pleased people were when the ' Arab spring ' began . That turned into many winters of discontent.

 

Best to wait and see before getting too excited . Might save you from a big disappointment.

ask the East Germans the same question

[Jingthing]

I hope there are major changes for the better to the TM30 process (goatrope).   And the former immigration commander, Big Joke, made some big immigration rule proposals like doing away with 90 day address reporting for folks on long stay/1 year visa/extensions of stay....and maybe a retirement visa/extension of stay longer than 1 year....but none of the proposals went anywhere...they were just self-serving sound bites for news media purposes.
 
And I sure know in late August when I renewed my retirement extension of stay for the 10th time at Chaeng Wattana I was fined Bt800 for not having a TM30 onfile. 
 
Sure hope they refund that Bt800 if they decide to stop enforcing the TM30 goatrope.  Yea, yea, I know, once you give money to a Thai it's never seen again.   Refund?!  Can not! 
 
 
 

Did you need to file a tm30 as well to get your extension or just the fine?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Jingthing]

wrong thread i know...but what happened to the imminent announcement regarding compulsory health insurance for expats that was expected a few weeks back? anyone?

Nothing.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[pellets]

3 hours ago, yimlitnoy said:

This law does not need to be changed, it needs to be cancelled altogether.  There are no need to controle and regulate where each foreign individual goes within and outside Thailand.  Already each foreign individual is under time restriction via the issuance of a visa and a 90 days residential report exist if a need arises to contact an individual within the country. 

 

If Thailand prefered non-Asian visitors (married or retired) to live here, this can be regulated  via the already existing visa system.

Would be of great interest if Immigration authorities could point at ONE single country using the SAME stupid system, AND also can show an improvement to that country`s "security"...
I have been living in quite a numbers of countries around the world, and NEVER seen / heard of any other country with this stupid rules!
 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, SymS said:

If they really have to change the law, it will take a few years at least...

 

That's not the way it works in Thailand. If a law isn't 'convenient' they just ignore it. Everyday Thais do that all the time - helmets, selling you a beer out of hours, etc etc etc. Same with officials, who will probably be told to just let things slide back to the way it was before and ignore the TM30 rule. This time, though, it caused such a fuss worldwide they might be forced to announce an alternative rather than forget it.

[madmen]

Going to be a lot of expats with freshly signed leases in Cambodia feeling ripped off if the tm30 is relaxed

[Jingthing]

I don't really understand most of the people who write here. Why so negative about everything? Why not be positive and wait and see what these changes mean, that is if they happen within a reasonable time.

New in town?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rabas]

14 minutes ago, Isaanlawyers said:

There is another one, using the administrative court to enforce what the law already says.... or the constitutional court to contest a law. But right now, I rather prefer the administrative court. They are efficient but foreigners do not know how it works.

 

If anyone from the Thai administration, a policeman, someone working at the land department, or the labour department does NOT want to do his job or refuse something based on a reason not in the law, you can go to administrative court of your province, FREE OF CHARGE, they have negotiation and consultation and if it doesn't work, they make a decision. Each employee of the Thai government must respect the law. (Yes, I know, this is Thailand but I was successful twice in administrative court by suing immigration itself.).

Good to know. Can one represent oneself at the administrative court, or does it require a lawyer ?

 

What is the difference between approaching the administrative court and the Office of the Ombudsman? I've heard of cases where Westerners caught in bureaucratic messes got the Ombudsman to intervene.

[Parsve]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

New in town?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

No, I have traveled to Thailand since 2008 and have lived here for the last six years. I think there are many "idiotic" things from the state here. But I still haven't fallen so low that I judge people or their statement before I see what they mean.

[Pib]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Did you need to file a tm30 as well to get your extension or just the fine?
 

I had to file the TM30 to get the extension.  The immigration office did the great majority of the extension processing but without a TM30 on-file the officer would not finalize the extension.  The officer sent to the TM30 area to clear-up the TM30 issue...that is, file a TM30 and pay the fine since I had never filed one since being in Thailand for over a decade and doing 9 previous extensions of stay.  Now with a TM30 receipt in-hand I went back to the officer and she finished approving the extension.  

[madmen]

49 minutes ago, metempsychotic said:

i dont see anything in this post that indicates positive change.

this merely pays lip service to the fact that the enforcement of a 40 year old law has received some outside attention.

You have any idea the monumental amount of face loss for the chief to make that statement? no turning back from here

[animatic]

4 hours ago, Dexlowe said:

Is it just me? Or are others feeling a little cynical? It's not the Thai way to suddenly admit unequivocal defeat to foreigners. Remember the old racist expression about an "Indian giver"? But I sincerely hope I'm misguided. ????

Think more that some seriously HUGE investment money just said as a group. ‘Fix this or we are GONE!’

 

No giant company wants to have their management employees chased for paperwork almost daily. Or worse Executives monitored 24/7 for their whereabouts and wasting their staffs time filing archaically designed paper shuffling that does diddly squat for actual security.

 

40 years old technologically is 250 years old socially. Big Joke’s replacement Big Oud really stepped on his pud big time deciding THIS would be his ‘be seen as tough gambit’ in the new job.

 

The mega-investors screamed He listened... like he had a choice.

[FarFlungFalang]

2 hours ago, rkidlad said:

You've done your cash grab and made a f*** load of money. Well done. Now stop with this stupidity before it does even more damage to the country's business and tourist reputation. Enough is enough. 

Edited 2 hours ago by rkidlad

Maybe the cash grab did't work out as well as expected and they were spending way to much money trying to implement this stupid idea that it's probably the bean counters who are putting a stop to this lunacy.

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Don't count your chickens yet, it could always end up being worse...

Immigration announces new financial requirements for visa extensions. 5 million baht for married , 10 million for retired. To be kept in a Thai bank for period of extension. TM 30 problem solved!