U.S. House to launch Trump impeachment inquiry over Ukraine controversy

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

you cant be like Adam Schiff and cherry pick your own facts.

Joe Biden is on tape bragging about how he shook down Ukraine with

a quid pro quo. Let us see some EU and IMF leaders go on camera to say

that they approved this...we are not going to take MSM's word for it.

Joe Biden is on tape bragging about how he achieved a US objective in removing a ineffective prosecutor who was impeding corruption investigations before releasing money to the Ukraine government.

 

The EU and IMF leaders have more important things to do that rehash the obvious.  Check some news stories from the time:

 

"The European Union has welcomed the dismissal of Ukraine’s scandal-ridden prosecutor general and called for a crackdown on corruption, even as the country’s political crisis deepened over efforts to form a new ruling coalition and appoint a new prime minister."   https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-hails-sacking-of-ukraine-s-prosecutor-viktor-shokin-1.2591190

 

"Bowing to pressure from international donors, the Ukrainian Parliament voted on Tuesday to remove a prosecutor general who had clung to power for months despite visible signs of corruption."  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html

 

 

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nothing will save GOP senators from the voters wrath if they convict Trump. Some that are not standing for re election might be swayed. After all, they probably hate Trump as much as the Dems, they being part of the swamp and all.

Trump is the biggest swamp builder in living memory.

[JHolmesJr]

44 minutes ago, Slip said:

Trump has a right to wonder.  He does not have the right to abuse his position by blackmailing a foreign government into investigating his political opponents.  I thought they taught civics in the US.

 

strong words....we'll see what credible proof is brought to prove this beyond a doubt.

Im not sure a bunch of speculative text messages among a bunch of diplomats is going to cut it.

[Crazy Alex]

7 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

strong words....we'll see what credible proof is brought to prove this beyond a doubt.

Im not sure a bunch of speculative text messages among a bunch of diplomats is going to cut it.

I believe even Democrats know this is just another dry hole. They've been reduced to secret witnesses, witness tampering, secret hearings. These aren't the tactics of people with a winning argument.

 

As for the phone call itself, of course it was appropriate to ask Ukraine to "find out what happened", given Biden had literally BRAGGED about extorting Ukraine.

 

Honestly, the only difference I see now verus the past few years of insane "GET TRUMP!" nonsense is that now they gave it a cool name: impeachment inquiry.

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

strong words....we'll see what credible proof is brought to prove this beyond a doubt.

Im not sure a bunch of speculative text messages among a bunch of diplomats is going to cut it.

Asking countries to investigate a political opponent is bad enough. But when you denounce that opponent as a crook, as Trump has repeatedly done, it doesn't matter if the quid pro quo was ambiguous. It's obvious that such statements put enormous pressure on Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and come up with a result that would please Trump. 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

I believe even Democrats know this is just another dry hole. They've been reduced to secret witnesses, witness tampering, secret hearings. These aren't the tactics of people with a winning argument.

 

As for the phone call itself, of course it was appropriate to ask Ukraine to "find out what happened", given Biden had literally BRAGGED about extorting Ukraine.

 

Honestly, the only difference I see now verus the past few years of insane "GET TRUMP!" nonsense is that now they gave it a cool name: impeachment inquiry.

Nonsense. If you want to call it a brag, he bragged about putting pressure on Ukraine to rid itself of an ineffectual (at best)  corruption prosecutor. This was in accordance with US policy, EU policy, and the IMF. Which is why Biden could say what he did openly whereas the Trump administration was eager to conceal what Trump had said to Ukraine's PM.

[JHolmesJr]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Asking countries to investigate a political opponent is bad enough. But when you denounce that opponent as a crook, as Trump has repeatedly done, it doesn't matter if the quid pro quo was ambiguous. It's obvious that such statements put enormous pressure on Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and come up with a result that would please Trump. 

 

Voters don't understand such nuanced balderdash...you have to be simple, you can't make 

leaps of logic by saying...obviously that's what he meant....like you know.

 

[Crazy Alex]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Asking countries to investigate a political opponent is bad enough. But when you denounce that opponent as a crook, as Trump has repeatedly done, it doesn't matter if the quid pro quo was ambiguous. It's obvious that such statements put enormous pressure on Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and come up with a result that would please Trump. 

There's nothing wrong with asking a country with which we have a treaty to cooperate in criminal matters to look into a criminal matter. Biden's bragging about extorting Ukraine, along with the timing of Hunter Biden scoring that cush gig after daddy was put in charge, is cause enough to "find out what happened". Of course, "find out what happened" isn't a request or demand to dig up dirt- contrary to the repeated claims of leftists.

[Jingthing]

I believe even Democrats know this is just another dry hole. They've been reduced to secret witnesses, witness tampering, secret hearings. These aren't the tactics of people with a winning argument.
 
As for the phone call itself, of course it was appropriate to ask Ukraine to "find out what happened", given Biden had literally BRAGGED about extorting Ukraine.
 
Honestly, the only difference I see now verus the past few years of insane "GET TRUMP!" nonsense is that now they gave it a cool name: impeachment inquiry.

Obstruction of congress is not the tactics of a president that is innocent of Impeachable offenses. It's coming. Hold your horses.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

There's nothing wrong with asking a country with which we have a treaty to cooperate in criminal matters to look into a criminal matter. Biden's bragging about extorting Ukraine, along with the timing of Hunter Biden scoring that cush gig after daddy was put in charge, is cause enough to "find out what happened". Of course, "find out what happened" isn't a request or demand to dig up dirt- contrary to the repeated claims of leftists.

Trump has repeatedly called Biden a crook on account of what Trump alleges he has done in Ukraine.

[Crazy Alex]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Nonsense. If you want to call it a brag, he bragged about putting pressure on Ukraine to rid itself of an ineffectual (at best)  corruption prosecutor. This was in accordance with US policy, EU policy, and the IMF. Which is why Biden could say what he did openly whereas the Trump administration was eager to conceal what Trump had said to Ukraine's PM.

No. Not nonsense. Biden's words speak for themselves. And given how Ukraine has been trying to give the US evidence of US corruption there, it's entirely appropriate for the president to ask them to find out what happened.

 

Here is a partial list of what the Ukrainians say they have:

 

• Sworn statements from two Ukrainian officials admitting that their agency tried to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election in favor of Hillary Clinton. The effort included leaking an alleged ledger showing payments to then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort;
   
• Contacts between Democratic figures in Washington and Ukrainian officials that involved passing along dirt on Donald Trump;
   
• Financial records showing a Ukrainian natural gas company routed more than $3 million to American accounts tied to Hunter Biden, younger son of then-Vice President Joe Biden, who managed U.S.-Ukraine relations for the Obama administration. Biden’s son served on the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company, Burisma Holdings;
   
• Records that Vice President Biden pressured Ukrainian officials in March 2016 to fire the prosecutor who oversaw an investigation of Burisma Holdings and who planned to interview Hunter Biden about the financial transfers;
   
• Correspondence showing members of the State Department and U.S. Embassy in Kiev interfered or applied pressure in criminal cases on Ukrainian soil;
   
• Disbursements of as much as $7 billion in Ukrainian funds that prosecutors believe may have been misappropriated or taken out of the country, including to the United States.

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/437719-ukrainian-to-us-prosecutors-why-dont-you-want-our-evidence-on-democrats

[bristolboy]

8 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

Voters don't understand such nuanced balderdash...you have to be simple, you can't make 

leaps of logic by saying...obviously that's what he meant....like you know.

 

Stop projecting on to voters your refusal to see the obvious. It's very clear that a President who has repeatedly called Joe Biden a crook it not looking for investigation with an outcome that clears him.

[Crazy Alex]

Just now, bristolboy said:

Trump has repeatedly called Biden a crook on account of what Trump alleges he has done in Ukraine.

Of course he says Biden is a crook! Biden's kid scored a cush gig in Ukraine right after getting kicked out of the Navy for being a drug addict. Hunter got his gig right after Joe was put in charge of affairs with Ukraine.

 

In fact, it appears the walls were closing in on Hunter and Shokin was looking to question Hunter Biden when Joe Biden got him fired via extortion (emphasis added):

 

"The controversy ignited anew earlier this year when I disclosed that Joe Biden admitted during a 2018 videotaped speech that, as vice president in March 2016, he threatened to cancel $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, to pressure Ukraine’s then-President Petro Poroshenko to fire Shokin.

 

"At the time, Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma. Shokin told me he was making plans to question Hunter Biden about $3 million in fees that Biden and his partner, Archer, collected from Burisma through their American firm. Documents seized by the FBI in an unrelated case confirm the payments, which in many months totaled more than $166,000."

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

 

Yeah, how dare Trump call Biden a crook!

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

 

No!

 

The way I see it, Biden isn't confirmed as running against Trump yet...he's part of a large group 

that's still jostling to be his opponent. And he ain't a shoo in by any stretch. Biden wasn't operating

in the same orbit as a Mayor Pete or Beto either....he was on the world stage, so if he's done something shady

with an ally in the past, the President has a right to wonder what went on. He hasn't asked Ukraine to fabricate

dirt on Biden.

 

Biden has made himself look guilty of shady behaviour....his sons actions probably aren't criminal 

but they are enough to topple Biden from his high horse of let's make America moral again.

Biden is the leading Dem nominee but because of Trumps bungling attempts to get some dirt on him, unfortunately some of it will stick and chances are it'll be his undoing. I've no great sympathy because he's put himself in this position (of course his sons dubious directorships was going to come back and haunt him - not illegal but come one, rookie error) but it's a shame as I reckon another old, white man was the best bet to get rid of an old, orange man.   

So lets just say for arguments sake that Biden needs to go. Still doesn't negate what Trump has done. He's bang to rights on breaking campaign finance rules and you only need to be guilty of one serious offence (although he's adding to them by the day) to be impeached. He's going to get impeached and then the GOP's morality is going to be tested to it's already low standards. 

I reckon America will see a female President before you know it.

[Crazy Alex]

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Stop projecting on to voters your refusal to see the obvious. It's very clear that a President who has repeatedly called Joe Biden a crook it not looking for investigation with an outcome that clears him.

It doesn't matter "what's very clear" to you. What matters are facts and evidence. Asking Ukraine to "find out what happened" is NOT the words of someone instructing Ukraine to find dirt. The words speak for themselves and you really have little to no wiggle room.

[bristolboy]

Just now, Crazy Alex said:

Of course he says Biden is a crook! Biden's kid scored a cush gig in Ukraine right after getting kicked out of the Navy for being a drug addict. Hunter got his gig right after Joe was put in charge of affairs with Ukraine.

 

In fact, it appears the walls were closing in on Hunter and Shokin was looking to question Hunter Biden when Joe Biden got him fired via extortion (emphasis added):

 

"The controversy ignited anew earlier this year when I disclosed that Joe Biden admitted during a 2018 videotaped speech that, as vice president in March 2016, he threatened to cancel $1 billion in U.S. loan guarantees, to pressure Ukraine’s then-President Petro Poroshenko to fire Shokin.

 

"At the time, Shokin’s office was investigating Burisma. Shokin told me he was making plans to question Hunter Biden about $3 million in fees that Biden and his partner, Archer, collected from Burisma through their American firm. Documents seized by the FBI in an unrelated case confirm the payments, which in many months totaled more than $166,000."

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

 

Yeah, how dare Trump call Biden a crook!

John Solomon is pretty much alone in his version of what happened.

Shokin's deputy said the investigation had been dropped over a year before Biden asked for him to be dismissed. The Ukrainian parliament embers overwhelmingly said the same wanted him dismissed. He hadn't managed to bring an indictment against any of the suspected members of Ukraine's kleptocracy. Poroshenko was protecting him.

Shokin did pursue some anti-corruption investigations. One as against a major anti-corruption NGO. Another was against prosecutors who were prosecuting some of Shokin's investigators after a large number of valuable jewels were found in their possession. 

So no, at the time of Biden's call, Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma. 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

It doesn't matter "what's very clear" to you. What matters are facts and evidence. Asking Ukraine to "find out what happened" is NOT the words of someone instructing Ukraine to find dirt. The words speak for themselves and you really have little to no wiggle room.

Such nonsense. Given Trump's past form and disregard for facts, you think he's going to accept an investigation that results in no finding of criminality? When has Trump ever backed down from accusations like this?

[bristolboy]

21 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

No. Not nonsense. Biden's words speak for themselves. And given how Ukraine has been trying to give the US evidence of US corruption there, it's entirely appropriate for the president to ask them to find out what happened.

 

Here is a partial list of what the Ukrainians say they have:

 

• Sworn statements from two Ukrainian officials admitting that their agency tried to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election in favor of Hillary Clinton. The effort included leaking an alleged ledger showing payments to then-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort;
   
• Contacts between Democratic figures in Washington and Ukrainian officials that involved passing along dirt on Donald Trump;
   
• Financial records showing a Ukrainian natural gas company routed more than $3 million to American accounts tied to Hunter Biden, younger son of then-Vice President Joe Biden, who managed U.S.-Ukraine relations for the Obama administration. Biden’s son served on the board of a Ukrainian natural gas company, Burisma Holdings;
   
• Records that Vice President Biden pressured Ukrainian officials in March 2016 to fire the prosecutor who oversaw an investigation of Burisma Holdings and who planned to interview Hunter Biden about the financial transfers;
   
• Correspondence showing members of the State Department and U.S. Embassy in Kiev interfered or applied pressure in criminal cases on Ukrainian soil;
   
• Disbursements of as much as $7 billion in Ukrainian funds that prosecutors believe may have been misappropriated or taken out of the country, including to the United States.

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/437719-ukrainian-to-us-prosecutors-why-dont-you-want-our-evidence-on-democrats

So many falsehoods there that have been repeatedly addressed that it's not worth bothering with any more.

[heybruce]

25 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

There's nothing wrong with asking a country with which we have a treaty to cooperate in criminal matters to look into a criminal matter. Biden's bragging about extorting Ukraine, along with the timing of Hunter Biden scoring that cush gig after daddy was put in charge, is cause enough to "find out what happened". Of course, "find out what happened" isn't a request or demand to dig up dirt- contrary to the repeated claims of leftists.

And Trump's bragging about all the money he's made from Russian's, negotiating a real estate deal with Moscow while running his "let's be friends with Russia" campaign, defiance of precedent and not releasing his tax returns, etc., is cause enough to find out what is going on.

 

President's Zelensky's request for military aid, bet with a "do us a favor" response followed by a request for an investigation of discredited conspiracy theories is a request for illegal campaign help.

[Opl]

16 minutes ago, Crazy Alex said:

It doesn't matter "what's very clear" to you. What matters are facts and evidence. Asking Ukraine to "find out what happened" is NOT the words of someone instructing Ukraine to find dirt. The words speak for themselves and you really have little to no wiggle room.

 

"Trump and his lawyer were working against the United States in Ukraine, and after the arrest of Giuliani’s associates, it is clear whose interests they were advancing along with Trump’s. The Ukrainians who Trump has been defending in this scandal are corrupt allies of Putin. "

the President Of The United States and his lawyer were working against stated US government policy and trying to corrupt a foreign government to help Trump win a second term in office.

[Jingthing]

24 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So many falsehoods there that have been repeatedly addressed that it's not worth bothering with any more.

Of course but 45's defense as he moves through the impeachment process is like to go full on Benghazi with such diversionary talking points.

[Jingthing]

Let's wait for the formal articles of impeachment which are coming probably by the end of the year. Then we can get into trial mode as it moves to the senate. One article that will be impossible to credibly defend will be obstruction of congress.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Scott

[Scott]

Off-topic, nonsensical troll posts and replies removed along with a post violating Fair Use Policy.  

 

Stay on topic or face a suspension.  

 

[Scott]

This is the final WARNING to stop with the trolling and baiting.   Asking nonsensical questions in order to deflect from the discussion is trolling.  

 

You have been warned.  

 

[johnnybangkok]

11 hours ago, bristolboy said:

So many falsehoods there that have been repeatedly addressed that it's not worth bothering with any more.

Not sure why you’re engaging with this one. A VERY provocative avatar, equally provocative name, brand new to the site but seems to be on every Trump related discussion regurgitating every conspiracy theory out there? Looks highly suspicious don’t you think?

 

[JHolmesJr]

"Let's just stay very focused on impeachment, okay?"

Jeff Zucker, President, CNN from the devastating CNN

whistleblower video. Now that's a whistleblower. Unafraid

to show his face. Nothing to hide.

 

Makes it so clear to understand why the impeachment

drums are always beating hard and fast.

[bristolboy]

2 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

"Let's just stay very focused on impeachment, okay?"

Jeff Zucker, President, CNN from the devastating CNN

whistleblower video. Now that's a whistleblower. Unafraid

to show his face. Nothing to hide.

 

Makes it so clear to understand why the impeachment

drums are always beating hard and fast.

That was Jeff Zucker setting the news agenda for the day. That's all. And anyone interested in revealing the truth wouldn't give the tapes to Project Veritas which has a long history of misleadingly editing videos. If this whistleblower is so honest, let him release all the tapes he has for everyone to access.

Edited October 15, 2019 by bristolboy

[JHolmesJr]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

That was Jeff Zucker setting the news agenda for the day. That's all. And anyone interested in revealing the truth wouldn't give the tapes to Project Veritas which has a long history of misleadingly editing recording. If this whistleblower is so honest, let him release all the tapes he has for everyone to access.

 

There was no misleading editing I saw. The employees looked pretty resigned 

to the direction that was being forced on them from above. Some probably

even relished it. The whole idea was to show CNN's agenda which they've always denied

and wrapped up in a generic nonsense label of 'following the facts'.

 

He's shot about 100 hours of footage....I think you can review all the tapes if

you apply to Veritas as a film editor. ????????

 

[FritsSikkink]

Going to be an interesting week:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/impeachment-inquiry-deadlines-for-rudy-giuliani-mike-pence-hearings/ar-AAILCs6?ocid=spartandhp

 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.