U.S. House to launch Trump impeachment inquiry over Ukraine controversy

[wayned]

21 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should Trump help those that want to destroy him? That's not rational.

According to him he's innocent and, if he is, releasing the documents would prove that.  The fact that he is not releasing them is kinda like an admission of guilt.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

 

Yes, a political trial, for political reasons.

In Trump's case it's political and criminal:

 

" The top American diplomat in Ukraine testified on Tuesday that President Donald Trump made the release of U.S. security aid to Ukraine contingent on Kiev publicly declaring it would carry out politically motivated investigations that he demanded, according to a copy of his statement to lawmakers. "   https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1129996-us-diplomat-testifies-trump-tied-ukraine-aid-to-politically-motivated-investigations/

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

 

And why are none of the dems hearings behind closed doors?

Why should trump help them?

Investigations are normally kept confidential.  Trials are conducted openly.  Didn't you know that?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why should Trump help those that want to destroy him? That's not rational.

Because he is legally obligated to do so.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Because he is legally obligated to do so.

It must be really annoying to the Dems that Trump doesn't want to assist them in their desire to destroy him.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Another version of "I don't support Trump but.." Your protestations would be more believable if you actually criticized Trump's policies. 

Trump has done many things that I strongly disagree with, and I didn't think he'd be a very good president.

Perhaps you missed all those posts?

Now, perhaps you can stop deflecting with the personal stuff and post something on topic.

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It must be really annoying to the Dems that Trump doesn't want to assist them in their desire to destroy him.

 

No, it is annoying that Trump thinks he's above the law, and his base agrees.

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Because he is legally obligated to do so.

Yes.

The house is conducting a constitutionally legitimate impeachment inquiry.

45 by stonewalling and aggressively blocking release of witnesses and evidence is without any doubt obstructing congress.

Obstructing congress in itself is yet another impeachable offense.

[roobaa01]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

The house is conducting a constitutionally legitimate impeachment inquiry.

45 by stonewalling and aggressively blocking release of witnesses and evidence is without any doubt obstructing congress.

Obstructing congress in itself is yet another impeachable offense.

outside the  dem echo chamber in reality, it is called a coup or shifty schiff kangaroo court, as of today taylor argument was destroyed within 90 seconds by republic redcliffe, cheers another quid pro quo hoax down the drain.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[johnnybangkok]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only time will tell if you or I are correct. Only one of us can be.

 

They've actually had enough to impeach long ago, but they didn't. I wonder why, not.

 

FYI I use IMO to indicate that it is an OPINION. Too many on here brandishing opinions around as it they are facts.

FYI I'm not biased towards Trump, whom I always thought was only the least worst of two really bad candidates, as is born out by many of my past posts, but I am biased against the Dems, who are not governing the country properly, IMO, due to their obsession with Trump.

Again I don't know why you don't get  this? They are gathering evidence to present to Congress who, when seeing ALL of the incriminating evidence will vote to impeach. It takes time to do this and of course they also want hard, indisputable facts so the Republican Senators will have to convict; or be seen as the spineless sycophants they truly are.

And by the way, not all opinions are created equal. You don't get away with things just simply because you say 'well that's my opinion' and 'Too many on here brandishing opinions around as it they are facts'. Everything I and many Trump critics quote on this forum are undeniable facts (you are more than welcome to check my posts) in an attempt to counter the numerous conspiracy theories, deflections and downright lies perpetrated by most Trump fans on ThaiVisa. So if you are truly not a Trump fan then get over your misguided hatred of the Dems (you can hate them at the polls) as right now there is some serious stuff going on with the future of the US. With Trump ignoring congressional subpoenas, obstructing justice, withholding aid to get dirt on a political opponent, violating campaign finance rules, enriching himself and his family whilst in office, lying, lying, lying on a DAILY basis and just general incompetence, he is far, far worse than any Dem or indeed any other American leader has ever been and if not stopped, could set back American democracy for decades. It's that big a deal. 

 

[johnnybangkok]

18 hours ago, riclag said:

That never happen

 

That never happen

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-says-there-was-no-blackmail-in-trump-call.html

 

What did happen! another dem fiasco !

This 'Dem fiasco' seems to be not as far fetched as you Trump fans would like to believe or are we now saying that Bill Taylor, a West Point graduate (where he graduated in the top 1% of his class), a Harvard MPA, who has served in Vietnam and served his country in government service to both Dem and Rep administrations, the ex- Ambassador to Ukraine and current Charge d'Affaires for Ukraine is making everything up when he confirms that there was indeed a quid pro quo with Trump directly trying to make military aid to Ukraine contingent on the probes Trump sought for his own political gain?

Or is this just another nothing burger? Another conspiracy from someone who is willing to sacrifice a lifetime of impeccable service to lie to congress about Trump?

So let's hear it then Trump fans. How are we going to explain away this one? 

Edited October 23, 2019 by johnnybangkok

[JimmerJJ]

I wonder how Trump likes his goose cooked?  I think well done.

Edited October 23, 2019 by JimmerJJ
added plural

[JimmerJJ]

11 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

This 'Dem fiasco' seems to be not as far fetched as you Trump fans would like to believe or are we now saying that Bill Taylor, a West Point graduate (where he graduated in the top 1% of his class), a Harvard MPA, who has served in Vietnam and served his country in government service to both Dem and Rep administrations, the ex- Ambassador to Ukraine and current Charge d'Affaires for Ukraine is making everything up when he confirms that there was indeed a quid pro quo with Trump directly trying to make military aid to Ukraine contingent on the probes Trump sought for his own political gain?

Or is this just another nothing burger? Another conspiracy from someone who is willing to sacrifice a lifetime of impeccable service to lie to congress about Trump?

So let's hear it then Trump fans. How are we going too explain away this one? 

Agree 100%!  I wonder how they will spin this.  At this point with some much evidence of corruption they must be guzzling down the Kool-Aid. Unbelievable that so many in the USA are so gullible and are being played for suckers by Trump. I don't know what's brainwashing them but I think it's Faux News.

[johnnybangkok]

2 minutes ago, JimmerJJ said:

Agree 100%!  I wonder how they will spin this.  At this point with some much evidence of corruption they must be guzzling down the Kool-Aid. Unbelievable that so many in the USA are so gullible and are being played for suckers by Trump. I don't know what's brainwashing them but I think it's Faux News.

Even Faux News can't brush this one under the carpet https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bill-taylor-testifies-trump-used-ukraine-aid-white-house-meeting-as-leverage-to-get-investigations

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

outside the  dem echo chamber in reality, it is called a coup or shifty schiff kangaroo court, as of today taylor argument was destroyed within 90 seconds by republic redcliffe, cheers another quid pro quo hoax down the drain.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Did Redcliffe say that?

 

Even moscow mitch has had enough.

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitch-mcconnell-denies-trump-ukraine-call_n_5daf6ee4e4b08cfcc323f559

[RideJocky]

Because he is legally obligated to do so.

Not until the Supreme Court says so.

[bristolboy]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Trump has done many things that I strongly disagree with, and I didn't think he'd be a very good president.

Perhaps you missed all those posts?

Now, perhaps you can stop deflecting with the personal stuff and post something on topic.

 

If you don't want your bona fides questioned, don't bring it up in the first place. Stick to the issues.

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, RideJocky said:

 

Not until the Supreme Court says so.

 

No surprises that you are wrong again. His is legally obligated until the supreme court says he is not.

 

If you are charged with murder you are not uncharged until the supreme court says so. You are not let out of jail until supreme court says do.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

outside the  dem echo chamber in reality, it is called a coup or shifty schiff kangaroo court, as of today taylor argument was destroyed within 90 seconds by republic redcliffe, cheers another quid pro quo hoax down the drain.

 

wbr

roobaa01

Only inside the Trump echo chamber is this called anything but an impeachment investigation, and it is constitutional.

 

Why not provide a link to this devastating Redcliffe argument?

[RideJocky]

No surprises that you are wrong again. His is legally obligated until the supreme court says he is not.
 
If you are charged with murder you are not uncharged until the supreme court says so. You are not let out of jail until supreme court says do.

Please try to follow along. He’s not charged with a crime.

[Sujo]

10 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

 

Please try to follow along. He’s not charged with a crime.

 

And he doesnt have to be.

 

But it sure looks likely he will be when leaving office.

 

Now run along and let the adults converse.

[JimmerJJ]

17 hours ago, riclag said:

Many Americans want this to happen,Impeachment ! Transparency is the best way to expose the dems! The world get's to hear all the hyperbole on the house floor during the debate .  

No it's not "hyperbole" or exaggerated.  Trump is a proven con-man, fraud, pathological liar, guilty of extortion/bribery, throws our allies under the bus, shames our military with the withdrawal and over 700 former prosecutors agree that he would be guilty of obstruction of justice and the only thing saving him from charges is because he is President. His goose is cooked now and there's no denying that there wasn't quid pro quo regarding Trump's attempt to bribe the Ukraine by withholding aid to threaten/extort the Ukraine into investigating Biden (regarding whether there was any wrongdoing (which there wasn't and case closed from previous investigation). Trump is corrupt to the bones and in a job that is way way over his head.  His child-like behavior shows he is mentally unfit to be President and that presents a danger to our national security. It's astonishing in view of all Trumps' incompetence and corruption that there are still Americans that still support this circus.  The gullible and naive Trump supporters that still hang on need to wake up and start thinking for themselves instead of being brainwashed by Faux news (and other right wing propaganda)

[RideJocky]

No it's not "hyperbole" or exaggerated.  Trump is a proven con-man, fraud, pathological liar, guilty of extortion/bribery, throws our allies under the bus, shames our military with the withdrawal and over 700 former prosecutors agree that he would be guilty of obstruction of justice and the only thing saving him from charges is because he is President. His goose is cooked now and there's no denying that there wasn't quid pro quo regarding Trump's attempt to bribe the Ukraine by withholding aid to threaten/extort the Ukraine into investigating Biden (regarding whether there was any wrongdoing (which there wasn't and case closed from previous investigation). Trump is corrupt to the bones and in a job that is way way over his head.  His child-like behavior shows he is mentally unfit to be President and that presents a danger to our national security. It's astonishing in view of all Trumps' incompetence and corruption that there are still Americans that still support this circus.  The gullible and naive Trump supporters that still hang on need to wake up and start thinking for themselves instead of being brainwashed by Faux news (and other right wing propaganda)

It’s nice you guys can just keep using the same rhetoric over and over and over every time you make up a new charge...

Hilarious

[Sujo]

7 minutes ago, RideJocky said:

 

It’s nice you guys can just keep using the same rhetoric over and over and over every time you make up a new charge...

Hilarious

 

Facts are a real pain for some.

[stevenl]

12 hours ago, RideJocky said:

 

And why are none of the dems hearings behind closed doors?

Why should trump help them?

 

Because the law requires him to do so.

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, JimmerJJ said:

No it's not "hyperbole" or exaggerated.  Trump is a proven con-man, fraud, pathological liar, guilty of extortion/bribery, throws our allies under the bus, shames our military with the withdrawal and over 700 former prosecutors agree that he would be guilty of obstruction of justice and the only thing saving him from charges is because he is President. His goose is cooked now and there's no denying that there wasn't quid pro quo regarding Trump's attempt to bribe the Ukraine by withholding aid to threaten/extort the Ukraine into investigating Biden (regarding whether there was any wrongdoing (which there wasn't and case closed from previous investigation). Trump is corrupt to the bones and in a job that is way way over his head.  His child-like behavior shows he is mentally unfit to be President and that presents a danger to our national security. It's astonishing in view of all Trumps' incompetence and corruption that there are still Americans that still support this circus.  The gullible and naive Trump supporters that still hang on need to wake up and start thinking for themselves instead of being brainwashed by Faux news (and other right wing propaganda)

I wouldnt worry too much. Even according to Fox there is 8% of trump supporters with no uni degree that think the investigation is a coup. The other supporters are wavering.

 

So we know who are the trump diehards here. 

[RideJocky]

Because the law requires him to do so.

I know the press keeps squealing that the law requires him to do so, but I think he might have better lawyers than they do, or at least the lawyers he does have, aren’t out to get him.

There is no benefit for Trump to cooperate in any way. The left has proven that time and again.

[Slip]

1 hour ago, RideJocky said:

 

I know the press keeps squealing that the law requires him to do so, but I think he might have better lawyers than they do, or at least the lawyers he does have, aren’t out to get him.

There is no benefit for Trump to cooperate in any way. The left has proven that time and again.
 

 

Rudy seems to be putting the accidental boot in.   

 

The benefit to Trump is to clear his name, after all you guys keep telling us he is innocent of any impeachable activity.

[wayned]

3 hours ago, RideJocky said:

 

I know the press keeps squealing that the law requires him to do so, but I think he might have better lawyers than they do, or at least the lawyers he does have, aren’t out to get him.

There is no benefit for Trump to cooperate in any way. The left has proven that time and again.
 

If he is innocent why doesn't he turn over all of the documents requested?  Why doesn't he let everybody testify that congress has asked them to?  Why does he need any lawyers.

 

 

The House inquiry is  a "grand jury" investigation being held, as all grand jury investigations are behind closed doors.  The "target" does not have the right to be represented  and most of the time doesn't even know that there is an investigation.  If the grand jury, in this case the House committees, find that there is sufficient evidence to bring charges they will indict the "target", in this case the committees will recommend impeachment which will be ratified by a full House vote, the first, and only vote, that Pelosi must call.

 

The case will then go to the Senate for trail and at that time Trumpwill have the opportunity to question his accusers, his lawyers will, according to the rules of the Senate which will be set until it is referred to them.

 

Trump has now convinced his cohorts to disrupt the House hearings by storming the hearing room during the hearing.  They should all be arrested and hauedl off the the cross bar hotel as would happen to anybody that stormed a grand jury hearing.

 

Because Trump doesn't like what he is hearing and is being ignored by people that he told not to testify, he has now persuaded his minions to hold an illegal protest.  The GOP is not the Republican party any more, it is a Trump cult Jim Jones, Charlie Manson and now Donald Trump.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes.

The house is conducting a constitutionally legitimate impeachment inquiry.

45 by stonewalling and aggressively blocking release of witnesses and evidence is without any doubt obstructing congress.

Obstructing congress in itself is yet another impeachable offense.

I really wish they'd just stop talking about impeaching him and just do it.

IMO they won't because they think it hurts him more to talk about it that to do it. Just imagine the capital he could make out of a failed impeachment in the election campaign.