Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[Sheryl]

I double checked my passport and indeed on the first stamps it clearly says non-O.
 
So I just looked up on WIKI and found this among other types of visa 
 

 
So firstly it says retirement visa is O-A not O
Secondly where does the "non" as in non-O come into it?
 
Lastly i looked up the longstay govt website to see what the annual premium might be....doesn't seem to be available.
As the sum covered is only 400k one would presume the premium would be much less than the premium private insurance companies have been offering as they would be on the hook for very large "sums insured" and people I know who are insured tend to go to expensive hospitals. So dow we know whats being offered?
 
Thoughts?

"Non" just means non-immigrant and both regular "O" and "O-A" are "non" just people don't always say it.

O-A and O-X are sub types of O.

The police order specifies O-A (issuance of O-X already had an insurance requirement). Some people think despite this that extension of stay under a regular O also falls under this order. Makes no sense to me, otherwise why specify O-A? But we shall see. I would advise anyone on an extension of stay for retirement that ends soon to ho talk to their local IO.

There is an excel sheet summarizing the policies of companies linked to the longstay website in the Health Forum.

The policies are NOT cheap due to the OPD requirement.


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[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

So firstly it says retirement visa is O-A not O

Secondly where does the "non" as in non-O come into it?

The non is short for non immigrant. The correct name for it is a non-oa visa.

[poohy]

On 10/11/2019 at 6:38 PM, Pib said:

Will be interesting how an agent will be able to overcome the insurance requirement without the individual really having insurance.   Of course some agents apparently overcome the income requirement without any problem.  Guess agents will just need to fatten the envelope.

Agents pay IO to waive financials so they can pay them to waive Insurance

Simple innit!

[Kelsall]

Assist Thai Visa, a reputable visa service company in Chiang Mai, reports the following on their FB page.  Note, for Chiang Mai only.  (scroll down a bit)

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/assist.thai/posts/

 

"Update on Health Insurance for OA visas.
Please note this is only for Chiang Mai immigration. They have confirmed that any person who has previously held and OA visa and then extended it inside Thailand WILL NEED health insurance for the renewal. This means if you arrived 3 years a go on an OA visa and since then have been getting extensions in Chiang Mai, you will need to show health insurance at your next extension. For those that do not qualify for insurance or cant obtain it, your option is to leave and then reapply for a NON 0 visa and then get a 1 year extension based on Retirement. Please note that health insurance isnt currently required for the Non 0 Retirement extensions. For any questions contact..."

Edited October 13, 2019 by Kelsall

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Kelsall said:

Please note this is only for Chiang Mai immigration. They have confirmed that any person who has previously held and OA visa and then extended it inside Thailand WILL NEED health insurance for the renewal.

Just more false info or CM going rogue.

Chaeng Wattana said it is not needed when a Thai lady called them about it on Friday.

[Tuvoc]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

His basis for claiming it applies to all retirement visas not just O-A is questionable given that the Police Order repeatedly specifies only O-A. He offers no explanation of why the orders contain that language if the intent was to also include non-O visas.

 

 

Well, he does state that they have to wait until they see how Immigration will interpret it and apply it. We don't know for sure. But crucially he says that the Thai Lawyers on his staff have also been through the original Thai language Order. How many here have done that ? There could be something subtlety different with the English translation.

 

In any case - so when I retire next year I'll be getting the Marriage Visa. I was wondering which to get - marriage or retirement. Now the decision is easy for me.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Tuvoc

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, poohy said:

Agents pay IO to waive financials so they can pay them to waive Insurance

Simple innit!

Simple?

And at your first trip outside Thailand, what will you show to the Airport Immigration Officer when you will want to re-enter in Thailand ?... 

[madmen]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

ut I have another question?  Why does a Retiree have to have 800K Baht in a Thai Bank to apply for an Extension?

its why the 400k all year. is it a coincide?

[Exploring Thailand]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Simple?

And at your first trip outside Thailand, what will you show to the Airport Immigration Officer when you will want to re-enter in Thailand ?... 

You show them the annotation on your passport confirming that you have the required insurance, the same annotation that appears on the passports of people who actually bought the required insurance. No one has to show insurance papers at the point of entry.

[cheeryble]

I got an extension of stay to my non-O visa stamp very recently same as the last 15 years. If it turns out I need to get insurance would it have to be by 31 October or would it have to be when I next apply for an extension?

 

I realize answering can be difficult.

 

Secondly if I got married officially does this get rid of the need for this health insurance?

Thanks

 

 

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[lupin]

3 minutes ago, madmen said:

its why the 400k all year. is it a coincide?

I think we might want to stop using the 800k before/400k after requirements of a NON O extension based on 50+ as an excuse to support the idea that this wont effect these extensions in future. The money in the bank is irrelevant. The OX visa which has had the health insurance requirement for months ... has financial reqs of 3 million before / 1.4 million after. So it dosnt make a jot of difference how much money is shown to be in the bank as far as insurance is concerned.

 

Thats not to say I think this applies to extensions of a Non - o... I agree with others that it is clear in the police orders that this applies only to OAs at present. Just saying that arguing that it will never apply to NON O extensions because of the 400k left in the bank,  doesn't hold water.

[Tuvoc]

1 minute ago, cheeryble said:

I got an extension of stay to my non-O visa stamp very recently. If it turns out I need to get insurance would it have to be by 31 October or would it have to be when I next apply for an extension?

I realize answering can be difficult.

Secondly if I got married officially does this get rid of the need for this health insurance?
Thanks


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It seems that you only need the Insurance at your next extension, or if you leave the country and re-enter in the meantime. But we are all guessing !

 

At the moment everyone is saying that marriage extensions are not covered. That could change in future I guess, but my opinion is that the Thai government will always treat them differently and more leniently. I hope so. Of course they may scrutinise marriage extensions a lot more to be sure they are genuine. 

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

You show them the annotation on your passport confirming that you have the required insurance, //

You mean that someone (agent, officer?) will print a stamp in your passport lying about the fact that you have a valid insurance ? 

I don't see that happening. To risky for them IMHO.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Pattaya46

[Tuvoc]

1 minute ago, lupin said:

Thats not to say I think this applies to extensions of a Non - o... I agree with others that it is clear in the police orders that this applies only to OAs at present. 

 

At this point the qualified Thai lawyers and English lawyer at Integrity Legal say otherwise. I'd take their opinion over the non-lawyers in this forum. However even they can't be certain, it is all down to how immigration officials interpret and apply it.

[lupin]

Just now, Tuvoc said:

 

At this point the qualified Thai lawyers and English lawyer at Integrity Legal say otherwise. I'd take their opinion over the non-lawyers in this forum. However even they can't be certain, it is all down to how immigration officials interpret and apply it.

Are you saying those lawyers have said this requirement applies to NON O extensions of stay based on being over 50? That's so far from what the police orders say. Nowhere does it say anything remotely like that.

[Exploring Thailand]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

You mean that someone (agent, officer?) will print a stamp in your passport lying about the fact that you have a valid insurance ? 

I don't see that happening. To risky for them IMHO.

No idea. I don't know how the agents do what they do. I don't understand how they can get extensions for people who don't have the required funds. Those people end up with a stamp in their passport confirming that they have met the requirements (i.e. they get the extension).

[KeeTua]

On 10/9/2019 at 3:28 PM, Pib said:

I know it's been said already this new police order only applies to those on Non OA Visas and does not apply to folks on extension of stay.  But if it does not apply to people on extensions of stay also, why is below even included in Section 2.22 which deals with extensions of stay?

 

Though we might refer to it as an extension of stay, the extension is based on the original visa since the 'Type of Visa' is requested on the TM.7 form 'Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom' and signed copies of the original visa page are required with the application.

 

'Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A....'

Past tense, I in fact have been granted the O-A, now expired, but that doesn't change the fact that it was granted in the past and Immigration want to see it when applying for an extension.

 

Unfortunately I think this will apply to O-A based extensions of temporary stay. But so far not Non-O visas based on marriage, family. That's my take.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

No idea. I don't know how the agents do what they do. I don't understand how they can get extensions for people who don't have the required funds. Those people end up with a stamp in their passport confirming that they have met the requirements (i.e. they get the extension).

They do it by "applying" the money you paid them, ha ha. Anyway if it turns out this is going to apply to extensions, (O, O-A, or both) then I predict a spike of interest in Elite cards. But then people will be subject to changes with those as well!

[Tuvoc]

30 minutes ago, lupin said:

Are you saying those lawyers have said this requirement applies to NON O extensions of stay based on being over 50? That's so far from what the police orders say. Nowhere does it say anything remotely like that.

Did you watch the video ? And did you read the original Thai language Order as they have done ?

Edited October 13, 2019 by Tuvoc

[lupin]

15 minutes ago, Tuvoc said:

Did you watch the video ? And did you read the original Thai language Order ?

I agree there is a lot of confusion with no clear answers yet on how this regulation will be applied...

 

All I'm saying in the original post is the I dont think people can use the argument that it WONT apply to NON O extensions for those over 50 because they already leave 400k in the bank. I dont think is a valid argument because the OX visa has a 3 mil before/1.4 mil after financial req and still requires the health insurance.

[Tuvoc]

Agreed !  Yes O-X indeed has the money requirement AND insurance requirement.

 

Hopefully there will be clarity on it soon, and consistency of application.

 

 

[Sheryl]

its why the 400k all year. is it a coincide?

I think it is. There is no equivalent requirement for people using the income method.

I think the new rules on seasoning and spending the lump sum are intended to address the fact that many people who actually have nothing like 800k have been getting extensions. As we all know, the new rules don't actually address it at all, just limit spending by people who actually have 800k. But that was the original intent at the policy maker level.





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[Peterw42]

32 minutes ago, KeeTua said:

Though we might refer to it as an extension of stay, the extension is based on the original visa since the 'Type of Visa' is requested on the TM.7 form 'Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom' and signed copies of the original visa page are required with the application.

 

'Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A....'

Past tense, I in fact have been granted the O-A, now expired, but that doesn't change the fact that it was granted in the past and Immigration want to see it when applying for an extension.

 

Unfortunately I think this will apply to O-A based extensions of temporary stay. But so far not Non-O visas based on marriage, family. That's my take.

I entered on an OA visa, its in my old passport and immigration have never asked to see it when doing my marriage extension. Thats because the extension I am currently on has nothing to do with the visa I entered on 5 years ago.

 

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Tuvoc said:

Did you watch the video ? And did you read the original Thai language Order as they have done ?

I watched the video. I was not at all convinced by his reason for believing an order that repeatedly states O-A visa actually meant both O-A and O.

 

And while I cvannot read the Thai version well, I can see that it too specifically talks about O-A visa.



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[Gweiloman]

Though we might refer to it as an extension of stay, the extension is based on the original visa since the 'Type of Visa' is requested on the TM.7 form 'Application for Extension of Temporary Stay in the Kingdom' and signed copies of the original visa page are required with the application.
 
'Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A....'

Past tense, I in fact have been granted the O-A, now expired, but that doesn't change the fact that it was granted in the past and Immigration want to see it when applying for an extension.
 
Unfortunately I think this will apply to O-A based extensions of temporary stay. But so far not Non-O visas based on marriage, family. That's my take.

According to the OP, he posted in another thread that an announcement will shortly be made to extend the insurance requirement to all extensions of stay based on retirement, including non-o (under Thai News)


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[saengd]

I'm very confused by all of this, maybe someone can help clarify?

 

I came here fifteen years ago on an O-A (Retirement) visa obtained in my home country, I've extended my visa every year since without a break. Somebody tried to tell me years ago that after the first year the O-A expires and becomes a type O visa, whether that's true or not I don't know. But I do know that Chiang Mai Immigration tends to be out of step with Bangkok in these things and they seem to be the first to implement new rules, before the rest of the country.

 

My question is, given what is said on the Assist Thai Visa Facebook page and the earlier quote from it, my take is that I will require to prove health insurance before my next visa extension. Is that the way others see things?

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, saengd said:

My question is, given what is said on the Assist Thai Visa Facebook page and the earlier quote from it, my take is that I will require to prove health insurance before my next visa extension. Is that the way others see things?

 

As of right now, you shouldn't be expected to have insurance for an extension renewal.

 

BUT, TiT, we've already had reports that at least one immigration office has said that extension DO need insurance (but no reports yet of it being demanded, we will have to wait for Brexit the end of the month to see what actually transpires)

[Tuvoc]

4 minutes ago, saengd said:

My question is, given what is said on the Assist Thai Visa Facebook page and the earlier quote from it, my take is that I will require to prove health insurance before my next visa extension. Is that the way others see things?

 

There are differing opinions, I think we just have to wait to see how it plays out.

[rabas]

14 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I entered on an OA visa, its in my old passport and immigration have never asked to see it when doing my marriage extension. Thats because the extension I am currently on has nothing to do with the visa I entered on 5 years ago.

 

Did immigration transfer your visa information from the old passport to the new one? Did you look?

 

I got a new passport 2 years ago. When they transferred my information they added 3 small blue boxes in the front. One clearly copies my original visa type (NON-O) and date of entry nine years ago (2010). Another copies a re-entry based on my 2010 visa. Clearly I'm still under the original visa type as I have not left in 9 years. I can post an image if it's of interest.

[Tuvoc]

Regardless of what they put in your passport, it will all be in the immigration computer system surely.