Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[Exploring Thailand]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I am more concerned by the statement on the tgia website that this certificate can be used only for the first one year entry. It is under "guidelines" section. That and lack of reference to foreign policies in the police order.

Yes. The guidelines are very specific - overseas policies acceptable for the first year only, subsequently you have to use Thai companies. That makes it sound as though the idea is to accommodate people who have existing insurance, but it doesn't do much to help those who have very good long-term overseas policies.  And the Deputy Minister's comments certainly didn't contain anything about one-year only.  Confusion abounds as usual.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

59 minutes ago, jimn said:

Then it makes it impossilble to use insurance from a non Thai company. I have zero touch with my insurance company except online, getting 2 directors to sign is a joke. What planet do they live on?

Thailand, of course!!! 

[jimn]

40 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Yes. The guidelines are very specific - overseas policies acceptable for the first year only, subsequently you have to use Thai companies. That makes it sound as though the idea is to accommodate people who have existing insurance, but it doesn't do much to help those who have very good long-term overseas policies.  And the Deputy Minister's comments certainly didn't contain anything about one-year only.  Confusion abounds as usual.

Can we really expect an immigration officer at the airport to decide if an insurance policy is in force for an OA visa. Take the scenario where a Non OA visa holder tries to enter Thailand on his first entry and being asked to show his insurance before being allowed in, its in English and the IO has no idea what it is?   

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

43 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Yes. The guidelines are very specific - overseas policies acceptable for the first year only, subsequently you have to use Thai companies. That makes it sound as though the idea is to accommodate people who have existing insurance, but it doesn't do much to help those who have very good long-term overseas policies.  And the Deputy Minister's comments certainly didn't contain anything about one-year only.  Confusion abounds as usual.

 

So far, we've only heard from Pacific Cross with them claiming their full range of regular insurance policies that meet the coverage requirements will be accepted vs. just the few original low coverage OA offerings.

 

Afaik, we haven't heard anything as yet from any of the other Thai insurers on the OA list. And the Pacific Cross rep hasn't answered my reply question if the same notion will apply with the other listed insurers.

[Exploring Thailand]

21 minutes ago, jimn said:

Can we really expect an immigration officer at the airport to decide if an insurance policy is in force for an OA visa. Take the scenario where a Non OA visa holder tries to enter Thailand on his first entry and being asked to show his insurance before being allowed in, its in English and the IO has no idea what it is?   

When you first apply for your O-A visa, you have to send your passport and a copy of your insurance to the consulate through which you are applying. If you are granted a visa, they annotate your passport noting that you have the required health insurance. The IOs will be instructed to look for the annotation. They haven't made it clear what happens if you subsequently renew your insurance inside Thailand. I guess you will probably have to go to the local Immigration Office to get a new annotation.

[Exploring Thailand]

21 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Afaik, we haven't heard anything as yet from any of the other Thai insurers on the OA list. And the Pacific Cross rep hasn't answered my reply question if the same notion will apply with the other listed insurers.

 

Pacific Cross haven't answered my email, either. I guess all of the insurance companies are in headless-chicken mode at the moment.

[jimn]

18 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So far, we've only heard from Pacific Cross with them claiming their full range of regular insurance policies that meet the coverage requirements will be accepted vs. just the few original low coverage OA offerings.

 

Afaik, we haven't heard anything as yet from any of the other Thai insurers on the OA list. And the Pacific Cross rep hasn't answered my reply question if the same notion will apply with the other listed insurers.

I probably know the right answer (to line their own pockets), but why oh why are they insisting on a Thai company insurance policy. Surely the insurance should be checked at the visa application stage, as what happens in a Schengan visa application for Europe. It could be an own country insurance policy and the granting of the visa proves the visa holder has insurance. It takes away any responsibility from Thai immigration. 

[jimn]

2 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

When you first apply for your O-A visa, you have to send your passport and a copy of your insurance to the consulate through which you are applying. If you are granted a visa, they annotate your passport noting that you have the required health insurance. The IOs will be instructed to look for the annotation. They haven't made it clear what happens if you subsequently renew your insurance inside Thailand. I guess you will probably have to go to the local Immigration Office to get a new annotation.

The other issue is if you get 1 year say UK insurance to cover your first year stay and you then leave and re enter to get your 2nd year just before your visa and insurance expires. The police order says that this 2nd year insurance must be from a Thai insurance company. The annotation you mentioned only covers the 1st year and they can then only stamp you into the country for the period of your insurance cover.

[Exploring Thailand]

4 minutes ago, jimn said:

The other issue is if you get 1 year say UK insurance to cover your first year stay and you then leave and re enter to get your 2nd year just before your visa and insurance expires. The police order says that this 2nd year insurance must be from a Thai insurance company. The annotation you mentioned only covers the 1st year and they can then only stamp you into the country for the period of your insurance cover.

Right, so it would probably be best to get new insurance before doing the border hop at the end of the first year. But see the quote from the Deputy Health Minister in post 297. He doesn't mention anything about foreign insurance being for the first year only, whereas the longstay website does.

[jimn]

9 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Right, so it would probably be best to get new insurance before doing the border hop at the end of the first year. But see the quote from the Deputy Health Minister in post 297. He doesn't mention anything about foreign insurance being for the first year only, whereas the longstay website does.

Its just unbelievable how incompetent these people are. They have had months to plan this and its still all over the place. I seriously think that only very small numbers will even bother with an OA in the future. I am just waiting for those people with an OA returning to Thailand after 31st October and then being asked where is the annotation for your insurance. Its going to happen and its going to be chaos.

[0815]

I just opened the link. ????

[Exploring Thailand]

That's the most frustrating part. If they're going to make changes they should let everyone know in advance, including their own consulates and other staff. They seem to just make ill-thought-out announcements from on-high, often multiple, contradictory announcements, and then everyone is left scrambling around trying to find out what is going on. This stuff has a big impact on the lives of many people.

[zydeco]

4 minutes ago, Exploring Thailand said:

That's the most frustrating part. If they're going to make changes they should let everyone know in advance, including their own consulates and other staff. They seem to just make ill-thought-out announcements from on-high, often multiple, contradictory announcements, and then everyone is left scrambling around trying to find out what is going on. This stuff has a big impact on the lives of many people.

They don't plan for next week, much less in the months or years ahead. It's grab it while you can, because you might die tomorrow. 

[Expat Brad]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:16 AM, Thaiwrath said:

Hopefully, this will avoid numerous scaremongering, nonsensical posts as in the other threads about the insurance

Why so? No visa or extension is more than 1 year anyway!!! ????

[Expat Brad]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:18 AM, Mitkof Island said:

I will self insure thank you very much before i hand my money over to weasels.

How can you self insure if, that is not in the criteria to get the visa? No policy....... Out you go!!!

[jimn]

12 minutes ago, Expat Brad said:

Why so? No visa or extension is more than 1 year anyway!!! ????

Not so? On a Non OA visa, re enter just before the expiry date of your 1 year visa and you receive another 12 months. Total 2 years. 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, jimn said:

The other issue is if you get 1 year say UK insurance to cover your first year stay and you then leave and re enter to get your 2nd year just before your visa and insurance expires. The police order says that this 2nd year insurance must be from a Thai insurance company. The annotation you mentioned only covers the 1st year and they can then only stamp you into the country for the period of your insurance cover.

 

Not exactly the police order. That is stated only on the tgia website. But the police order refers to this website (rather an odd thing to do IMO).

 

The police order itself makes no explicit mention of foreign policies.

 

Section 2.22 of the police order giving criteria for extension of temporary permission of stay states  (for O-A visa holders only) "must buy a Thai health insurance  online" (!!) ...."via the website www.longstay.tgia.org" (!!). 

 

A section on supporting documentation for Application for Temporary Stay (no mention of "extension"; maybe applies to both initial application and extensions? Unclear) states "must submit an insurance evidence with the form approved by the OIC by checking via the website www.longstay.tgia.org". The only form currently shown on that website is the one for overseas insurance, which the website states "First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. "

 

So totally unclear where one would get this form in case of a Thai company but presumably those listed will know (though at least one of them does nto currently appear on their website to even offer a product that meets the 400/40 criteria).
 

It is also not totally clear what is meant by "authorized insurance companies in Thailand  since there are companies not listed on the tgia website, both Thai and foreign, operating in Thailand and presumably authorized to do so. One gets the definite impression they want only insurance companies registered with the Thai OIC but it is not clear if they also want only the companies listed on the tgia website, ntr why those particular companies only are listed.

 

 

 

 

[jimn]

48 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Not exactly the police order. That is stated only on the tgia website. But the police order refers to this website (rather an odd thing to do IMO).

 

The police order itself makes no explicit mention of foreign policies.

 

Section 2.22 of the police order giving criteria for extension of temporary permission of stay states  (for O-A visa holders only) "must buy a Thai health insurance  online" (!!) ...."via the website www.longstay.tgia.org" (!!). 

 

A section on supporting documentation for Application for Temporary Stay (no mention of "extension"; maybe applies to both initial application and extensions? Unclear) states "must submit an insurance evidence with the form approved by the OIC by checking via the website www.longstay.tgia.org". The only form currently shown on that website is the one for overseas insurance, which the website states "First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. "

 

So totally unclear where one would get this form in case of a Thai company but presumably those listed will know (though at least one of them does nto currently appear on their website to even offer a product that meets the 400/40 criteria).
 

It is also not totally clear what is meant by "authorized insurance companies in Thailand  since there are companies not listed on the tgia website, both Thai and foreign, operating in Thailand and presumably authorized to do so. One gets the definite impression they want only insurance companies registered with the Thai OIC but it is not clear if they also want only the companies listed on the tgia website, ntr why those particular companies only are listed.

 

 

 

 

Yes clear as mud isn't it. By referring to the tgia website its implied by its very nature that foreign policies will be accepted for the first year. What also isn't clear is when they state extend or renew an OA visa. As you probably know an OA visa can be used as a prelude to an extension of stay but the visa itself cannot be extended. It can however be used for an extra `12 months stay if you enter Thailand just before the OA visa expires. My reading of the situation is this. A foreign policy can be used for the first year of the OA visa up until expiry date. If the visa is used to obtain a permission to stay beyond the initial 12 month term of the visa then it must be via a Thai company. If you then apply for another OA visa the whole circle starts again. The authorities have created a situation which appears to be unworkable in practice. No one in their right mind will apply for an OA visa if they are forced to use an expensive Thai company. The form on the tgia website for foreign policies also looks unworkable with the requirement for 2 director signatures. Its all in all yet another case of Thailand shooting itself in the foot, with over complicated visa requirements. People will not put up with it and will vote with their feet.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I have GAP coverage for my US Medicare so am covered for urgent or emergencies in Thailand. I don't need another policy just to get an extension.

 

But if you want to obtain an O-A visa to come to Thailand for the future, they're basically going to make you buy a Thai 400/40K policy anyway, probably to the tune of $1000 U.S. per year or higher, depending on your age and the Thai insurer involved.

 

Unless they suddenly have a drastic re-think on the matter of accepting legitimate foreign health insurance that covers in Thailand on an ongoing basis.

 

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

But if you want to obtain an O-A visa to come to Thailand for the future, they're basically going to make you buy a Thai 400/40K policy anyway, probably to the tune of $1000 U.S. per year or higher, depending on your age and the Thai insurer involved.

 

Unless they suddenly have a drastic re-think on the matter of accepting legitimate foreign health insurance that covers in Thailand on an ongoing basis.

 

 

Over US $2000 for those aged over 70, and that's the very cheapest policy with very insufficient cover. Soem policies are well over US $2000 by age 66.

 

I so far do not see  a single plan offering more than 800K maximum cover a year. Tough some, like Aetna, do not yet list any plans that have the required OPD cover and some, like Asia Insurance, do nto provide plan schedule in English.

 

 

[Huckenfell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:16 AM, RBOP said:

How can we get the shareholder lists of these companies? I'd like to know how many Cabinet, Ministers and other Government are in cahoots.  Premiums are outrageous. 

 

Read the fine print. You have to have a a full physical to apply for the insurance. So there will be many exclusions making the policy useless. Why cant people self-insure? Or is that coming. 

  

I thought i already have self insured by guaranteeing quite a large amount in my bank at the time of applying for my visa. If not, why did they ask me to show proof ?

[Huckenfell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:18 AM, maxisrael said:

I'm 74 and still covered and accepted by Aetna former Bupa. 

I bet you did'nt join yesterday !

[Huckenfell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:20 AM, Fore Man said:

There are a great number of US military retirees who chose Thailand as their home, most of whom are supporting Thai families. These retired members and their enrolled family members are all fully eligible to receive medical benefits under the Defense Tricare Program.  Family members are required to be registered on the US Department of Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System (DEERS), which can conveniently be done with a visit to the nearest DEERS office located at the Joint U.S. Military Advisory Group Thailand in Bangkok.  Tricare provides its beneficiaries with extremely comprehensive coverage for both outpatient and inpatient care.    Beneficiaries pay 25% of all costs until an annual catastrophic cap of $3,000 is reached...per each enrolled family.  Once that $3,000 (roughly THB 91,500 today) family cap is reached each year, there are no further costs incurred. In practical terms, this means that significant surgical procedures, hospital stays and rehabilitative costs are 100% covered for most beneficiary families because they generally run close to the annual spending cap anyway in their routine outpatient care. I sincerely hope that the US Embassy will spell out in explicit terms the excellent benefits of Tricare to their Thai Government counterparts and that our retired servicemen living in the kingdom will not be doubly penalized by being forced to buy totally unneeded additional commercial coverage. 

I say that its up to the American govt on behalf of these Vets to tell the Thai govt to "Bug off"

[Huckenfell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:40 AM, TeaMonkey said:

 

Good luck with getting your foreign insurance company to certify that it meets the Thai legal requirements and gets signed by two directors.

http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

Hoops deliberately placed for one to jump through !

[Huckenfell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:43 AM, glennb6 said:

So now, a few days back I read that health insurance was to be manditory for new O-A visa applicants over 50 yrs of age. Not a very clear explanation for an official announcement, but I'm now extending my O-A visa, not applying for a new one, so I passed on the details.

 

Today I read that the plans are "updated" to include ALL over 50 O-A visas, new and extensions, and again with less than clear guidelines. I will only speak for myself because that's the only person I am an expert in knowing.

 

Seems I am considered first, a long stay TOURIST. I thought I was a long term Non-immigrant? Something about being deemed a temporary tourist bothers me both from the perspective of being considered temporary by the authorities, and from the point of security of lifestyle. The later in that I am retired here, intend to live here until I die, and if that makes me a "non-immigrant" fine, but a temporary tourist?? Maybe tourists will be limited to X number of months one of these days at the whims of, well...

 

I am very INSULTED to be called "high risk" because I am over 50 yrs old. Hey, we all die some day but some people are healthier than others regardless of age. Some people live a healthier life style than others, regardless of age. I do know age discrimination when it's typed in print in my face by the host government!

 

Me, knock on my wooden head, I am healthy, never needed a hospital or a doctor in countless years. I'm not fat/overweight. I eat healthy, I exercise regularly and am in better shape than most 30-40 yr olds. I don't smoke, I rarely drink alcohol, I am in a monogamous relationship with my GF, and my stress levels are near zero. Sound pretty good and low risk to me.

 

I rarely ride public transportation, which seem to overturn, have brake failures, and driver brain failures resulting in crashes thus ranking Thailand rather high on road fatalities and injuries. I drive an older Toyota pickup and a whimpy Honda Wave motorcycle. I have Thai driver licenses and extra insurance on the pickup truck. I drive safely, sober, and on the lookout. Anyone who has ever been here and especially who live here knows how bad the driving is.

 

Tourists who rent larger motorcycles and blast around drunk. Locals who believe Buddha will protect them and don't bother looking who they drive in front of or on which side of the road they drive. Half the population who rides motorcycles sans helmets, and frequently three plus people on two seat motorcycles...yea. Many locals don't have driver licenses, carry insufficient insurance if any, and apparently frequently run from the scene of accidents (according to the daily news reports)...yea, who is it that is 'high risk'???

 

Police? Apparently they are there at the occasional roadblock to check helmets, license, and other minor stuff. Many people remember the recent news report with pictures of three young boys stopped at a roadblock, one wearing a metal pot on his head, and the police standing around chuckling how funny that was. Too young for licenses, no helmets, insurance? Driving skills?  Say no more.

 

I stress the road safety issues because driving is high risk here, but hey, because I'm an over 50 non-Thai, I am considered high risk. Essh.

 

So, I checked the premium rates for the stated minimum required insurance of 400k in patient and 40k outpatient coverage and surprise surprise surprise... 81,746 baht per year for 61-67yr olds. Seems a bit high for very minimal coverage, especially when the government has recently and officially condoned public hospitals to charge "whatever they feel like" for foreigners.

 

My current coverage with same company is 780k inpatient, zero outpatient. If I am injured and require outpatient care I will pay out of pocket. As my visa requirement is that I must have 800k in Thai banks, I think I can cover the 40k baht minimum.

 

My current coverage including discounts for no outpatient coverage, a deductible, and not having used the insurance (now in 2.5yrs since I started) is 19,238 baht per year.

 

So for lesser coverage the government is expecting me to pay an additional 62,508 baht every year!?? Expecting me to be OK with insurance that provides me with lesser coverage but costs 425% more than what I voluntarily buy now!??!!

 

At the very best and kindest, this is full on incompetence and disregard, and at worst it smells like government corruption, collusion with the insurance business, graft, and theft from a small segment of the non-resident population that is expected to say nothing as they are not Thai and just pay, just pay.

 

I don't like (but knew and agreed to before retiring here) having to keep 800k baht in Thai banks on a permanent bases. Didn't really care for the 2 months prior and 3 months after extension requirements because it sounds like the government assumes I'm trying to cheat the system with an agent (I am not). I don't travel in country much at all so the TM30 tracking doesn't affect me, but it seems childish and ineffectual if really intended to track criminals. I grin and report myself in to immigration every 90 days even though it makes me feel like a parolee, but at least the process is quick.

 

Now, the government says I will be required to pay an additional $2050 USD for their approved insurance scheme. I am not a big spender like the 2 week millionaire tourists or rich Thais, but my spending is a 100% positive income for the country, not to mention the 800k baht stuck in the bank. It costs Thailand ZERO, NOTHING to have me here, and I expected to live this way for another 20 to 30 years.

 

This mandatory insurance scam is insulting, way over the top costly, and provides significant mistrust in what the government may come up with next for me trying to live here.  Of all the policies and rules, this is one that may well push me to look elsewhere to live in retirement.

 

This rant is mostly "preaching to the choir" but maybe it will be read by some Thais, may some Thail government officials.

Absolutely the best post i have seen on the subject, congratulations glennb6. You have just about covered it all, i can only hope and pray that one of those turkeys in high places can read what you have said.

[Huckenfell]

On 10/11/2019 at 8:59 AM, Fore Man said:

 Much appreciated, Captain, but this is an issue far greater than each Tricare-covered member should be expected or required to take on as an individual. I urge every retired American service member to write to the US Ambassador in Bangkok requesting official assistance in preventing what would otherwise easily be a grave injustice to those of us who served. 

C'mon you Yanks and good luck. From an Aussie.

[Exploring Thailand]

26 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Over US $2000 for those aged over 70, and that's the very cheapest policy with very insufficient cover. Soem policies are well over US $2000 by age 66.

 

I so far do not see  a single plan offering more than 800K maximum cover a year. Tough some, like Aetna, do not yet list any plans that have the required OPD cover and some, like Asia Insurance, do nto provide plan schedule in English.

 

Most of the Pacific Cross policies are above 800k, although they don't list the schedule past 65. I'd be surprised if the other companies don't offer similar policies.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

They talked some originally about allowing expats to post some kind of bond or deposit as a guarantee against medical expenses.  Kind of like what they're already doing with requiring the 800K/400K to remain on deposit for retirement extensions.

 

--They talked about it originally, and then when the dust settled, they did nothing! Plus...

 

--No provision (beyond year 1) for people with valid and higher cover health insurance issued outside Thailand that's valid here.

 

--No provision for expats who have worked in Thailand and are already covered by Thai Social Security medical coverage.

 

--and no provision for those at very advanced ages or with significant pre-existing conditions who may be denied insurance by the O-A pool of Thai insurers, many of whom don't even write new policies for people older than 65....

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Exploring Thailand said:

Most of the Pacific Cross policies are above 800k, although they don't list the schedule past 65. I'd be surprised if the other companies don't offer similar policies.

 

I think Sheryl was referring to the O-A specific policies detailed on the TGIA website, such as Pacific Cross' Platinum 1, 2, and 3, where the maximum annual benefit tops out in ver. 3 at 645,500 THB. 

[Exploring Thailand]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think Sheryl was referring to the O-A specific policies detailed on the TGIA website, such as Pacific Cross' Platinum 1, 2, and 3, where the maximum annual benefit tops out in ver. 3 at 645,500 THB. 

Oh, Ok. But those policies are terrible.