Mandatory health insurance due for long stay tourists

[bronzedude]

2 hours ago, glennb6 said:

So now, a few days back I read that health insurance was to be manditory for new O-A visa applicants over 50 yrs of age. Not a very clear explanation for an official announcement, but I'm now extending my O-A visa, not applying for a new one, so I passed on the details.

 

Today I read that the plans are "updated" to include ALL over 50 O-A visas, new and extensions, and again with less than clear guidelines. I will only speak for myself because that's the only person I am an expert in knowing.

 

Seems I am considered first, a long stay TOURIST. I thought I was a long term Non-immigrant? Something about being deemed a temporary tourist bothers me both from the perspective of being considered temporary by the authorities, and from the point of security of lifestyle. The later in that I am retired here, intend to live here until I die, and if that makes me a "non-immigrant" fine, but a temporary tourist?? Maybe tourists will be limited to X number of months one of these days at the whims of, well...

 

I am very INSULTED to be called "high risk" because I am over 50 yrs old. Hey, we all die some day but some people are healthier than others regardless of age. Some people live a healthier life style than others, regardless of age. I do know age discrimination when it's typed in print in my face by the host government!

 

Me, knock on my wooden head, I am healthy, never needed a hospital or a doctor in countless years. I'm not fat/overweight. I eat healthy, I exercise regularly and am in better shape than most 30-40 yr olds. I don't smoke, I rarely drink alcohol, I am in a monogamous relationship with my GF, and my stress levels are near zero. Sound pretty good and low risk to me.

 

I rarely ride public transportation, which seem to overturn, have brake failures, and driver brain failures resulting in crashes thus ranking Thailand rather high on road fatalities and injuries. I drive an older Toyota pickup and a whimpy Honda Wave motorcycle. I have Thai driver licenses and extra insurance on the pickup truck. I drive safely, sober, and on the lookout. Anyone who has ever been here and especially who live here knows how bad the driving is.

 

Tourists who rent larger motorcycles and blast around drunk. Locals who believe Buddha will protect them and don't bother looking who they drive in front of or on which side of the road they drive. Half the population who rides motorcycles sans helmets, and frequently three plus people on two seat motorcycles...yea. Many locals don't have driver licenses, carry insufficient insurance if any, and apparently frequently run from the scene of accidents (according to the daily news reports)...yea, who is it that is 'high risk'???

 

Police? Apparently they are there at the occasional roadblock to check helmets, license, and other minor stuff. Many people remember the recent news report with pictures of three young boys stopped at a roadblock, one wearing a metal pot on his head, and the police standing around chuckling how funny that was. Too young for licenses, no helmets, insurance? Driving skills?  Say no more.

 

I stress the road safety issues because driving is high risk here, but hey, because I'm an over 50 non-Thai, I am considered high risk. Essh.

 

So, I checked the premium rates for the stated minimum required insurance of 400k in patient and 40k outpatient coverage and surprise surprise surprise... 81,746 baht per year for 61-67yr olds. Seems a bit high for very minimal coverage, especially when the government has recently and officially condoned public hospitals to charge "whatever they feel like" for foreigners.

 

My current coverage with same company is 780k inpatient, zero outpatient. If I am injured and require outpatient care I will pay out of pocket. As my visa requirement is that I must have 800k in Thai banks, I think I can cover the 40k baht minimum.

 

My current coverage including discounts for no outpatient coverage, a deductible, and not having used the insurance (now in 2.5yrs since I started) is 19,238 baht per year.

 

So for lesser coverage the government is expecting me to pay an additional 62,508 baht every year!?? Expecting me to be OK with insurance that provides me with lesser coverage but costs 425% more than what I voluntarily buy now!??!!

 

At the very best and kindest, this is full on incompetence and disregard, and at worst it smells like government corruption, collusion with the insurance business, graft, and theft from a small segment of the non-resident population that is expected to say nothing as they are not Thai and just pay, just pay.

 

I don't like (but knew and agreed to before retiring here) having to keep 800k baht in Thai banks on a permanent bases. Didn't really care for the 2 months prior and 3 months after extension requirements because it sounds like the government assumes I'm trying to cheat the system with an agent (I am not). I don't travel in country much at all so the TM30 tracking doesn't affect me, but it seems childish and ineffectual if really intended to track criminals. I grin and report myself in to immigration every 90 days even though it makes me feel like a parolee, but at least the process is quick.

 

Now, the government says I will be required to pay an additional $2050 USD for their approved insurance scheme. I am not a big spender like the 2 week millionaire tourists or rich Thais, but my spending is a 100% positive income for the country, not to mention the 800k baht stuck in the bank. It costs Thailand ZERO, NOTHING to have me here, and I expected to live this way for another 20 to 30 years.

 

This mandatory insurance scam is insulting, way over the top costly, and provides significant mistrust in what the government may come up with next for me trying to live here.  Of all the policies and rules, this is one that may well push me to look elsewhere to live in retirement.

 

This rant is mostly "preaching to the choir" but maybe it will be read by some Thais, may some Thail government officials.

Well stated, but good luck if any Thais or government officials read it. You are preaching to the choir. I, myself, am looking at nearby countries that regard expats as people to be catered too and not burdened down by policies and regulations of thoughtless, retarded ministers. If this is Thai bashing, so be it. They deserved it for thoughtless way they treat a segment of the population that overwhelmingly and positively supports the common Thai person and not the people with their hands out looking for that fat brown envelope.

[steve73]

So you'll need a Thai issued insurance to support your O-A application, which must be made in your own country....  

 

Then when you leave Thailand at the end of your 1st year, and re-enter to activate the 2nd years Permission to Stay, how will they confirm you have the necessary insurance for the FULL second year...?  I can see the airport Immigration queues getting even longer...   

 

The absurdity of this proposal surprises me not one iota.

[ThomasThBKK]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why would anyone rich enough to grt an elite visa not get insurance.

Why would anyone not get insurance?

 

Ohh hi, so I am one of these people.... Why would I take these <deleted> poor Thai insurance companies if I already have hanse merkur insurance (German) and ACS Asia lifetime insurance?? 

 

Both valid in Thailand, both for life, both cover me way more than any Thai insurance ever will. 

 

Having to get another Thai insurance that is government approved is nothing else than a way to scam me out of more money. 

 

9 minutes ago, lupin said:

Rubbish... the PE (thailand elite) visas also fall under the classification of a tourist visa. States as much on their website too..

No they don't, PE visas have their own category and regulation, they are not classified as tourist visas. 

[Angry Dragon]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 

If I have a bad heart, what is the point of getting me to buy health insurance?

 

so you can get treated when you go to the hospital.  otherwise you won't get treated.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Jeffrey346 said:

It costs me B280 for any hospital visit as I am married to a Gov employee. My meds which cost B25,000 are covered by the same B280 fee.

Are you married to a Gov employee as well?

No, I just go and pay, you're using a private hospital, I use the government hospital.

[Max69xl]

6 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Its people like you who are abusing the cheap Thai government hispitals. I know many who come here just for the cheap medical treatment.

 

Have you any idea how much a Thai neess to tetire to the US, 18 million baht or so and has to pay a lot more for medical insurance. 

Its about time we had reciprical agreements to allow the country we love(or abuse) to become a first world country.

The term "high risk" from 50 years old, does not come from insurance companies. It's something that the Department of Health have invented. Insurance companies considers a 66 year old and up a high risk. The term is "over aged".

Up to 65 you don't even need a check up when applying.

[lupin]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Ohh hi, so I am one of these people.... Why would I take these <deleted> poor Thai insurance companies if I already have hanse merkur insurance (German) and ACS Asia lifetime insurance?? 

 

Both valid in Thailand, both for life, both cover me way more than any Thai insurance ever will. 

 

Having to get another Thai insurance that is government approved is nothing else than a way to scam me out of more money. 

 

No they don't, PE visas have their own category and regulation, they are not classified as tourist visas. 

I can assure you... if you bother to go look on their site... PE visas fall under the class of a tourist visa. It is in the FAQ on site, it is included as part of their terms and conditions and part of their application process.... I'm on my second PE visa. Go check yourself... it SPECIFICALLY states as much on their website.

 

Also keep in mind, thailand elite is wholey owned and operated by TAT - TOURISM Authority of thailand... mmmkay

Edited October 11, 2019 by lupin
edit

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Angry Dragon said:

so you can get treated when you go to the hospital.  otherwise you won't get treated.

Are you really this stupid?

[PEE TEE]

Already companies are jumping on the bandwagon. No doubt they insure the uninsurable. and NOT pay out if needed by some small print again it's all to do with making money. I assume it will also be effective for extended stay retirement visas and not only tourist . so if you are well off and have loads of money you still have to have insurance . Not confusing assurance policies there is a difference. 

As i see now lots of adverts for life assurance (death only) policies      

[Jeffrey346]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

No, I just go and pay, you're using a private hospital, I use the government hospital.

NO.. Thai Gov ins is only available at Gov Hospitals. I would have to pay full rate at private hospitals.

I don't know how you're being charged less than B300 including meds if you are not covered by the Gov ins plan.

[Max69xl]

3 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Ohh hi, so I am one of these people.... Why would I take these <deleted> poor Thai insurance companies if I already have hanse merkur insurance (German) and ACS Asia lifetime insurance?? 

 

Both valid in Thailand, both for life, both cover me way more than any Thai insurance ever will. 

 

Having to get another Thai insurance that is government approved is nothing else than a way to scam me out of more money. 

 

No they don't, PE visas have their own category and regulation, they are not classified as tourist visas. 

There are only one official tourist visa, the 60 days TR. And sometimes 90 days for people from countries with bi-lateral agreements with Thailand. 

[Howiehotspur]

I got my yearly extension last week , and am leaving  thailand for 2 weeks on 10th Nov ... because I obtained extension prior to the 31st , can I assume when I return on the 22nd , I won’t be challenged or refused entry for not having health insurance.. as it only applies for those applying from the 31st ? .. ( effectively I have just under a year to sort it ? )

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

NO.. Thai Gov ins is only available at Gov Hospitals. I would have to pay full rate at private hospitals.

I don't know how you're being charged less than B300 including meds if you are not covered by the Gov ins plan.

There are 3 types of hospital in Thailand.

1. Government hospital

2. Private hospital for people paying into the SS scheme

3. Private hospitals.

 

You are using No2., it's a private hospital so it's more expensive.

I use No1., and pay the actual costs plus 50bht for being a foreigner.

I pay 50bht (foreigner charge) + cost of my pills (1bht/tablet) = 50bht + 90days x 2.5bht.

Edited October 11, 2019 by BritManToo

[lupin]

1 minute ago, Max69xl said:

There are only one official tourist visa, the 60 days TR. And sometimes 90 days for people from countries with bi-lateral agreements with Thailand. 

again... utter rubbish.

 

f you bother to go look on their site... PE visas fall under the class of a tourist visa. It is in the FAQ on site, it is included as part of their terms and conditions and part of their application process.... I'm on my second PE visa. Go check yourself... it SPECIFICALLY states as much on their website.

 

Also keep in mind, thailand elite is wholey owned and operated by TAT - TOURISM Authority of thailand... mmmkay

[kingofthemountain]

1 hour ago, Almer said:

Nothing makes any sense, 

...

 

Welcome in Thailand  

Edited October 11, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[Curmudgeonly59]

It will be interesting to see how the implementation of the new health insurance requirement plays out, particularly at the major airports. I'm trying to imagine a Thai immigration officer reading through the fine print of an insurance policy, trying to find what the out/inpatient cover amounts to. I mention it because if the IO asks for evidence of the passenger's health insurance and he/she flops an ATM sized card on the counter, it won't show the in/outpatient limits - just the passenger's name/policy number/essential emergency contact numbers. Will they drag people aside to 'consult' with a dedicated officer, trained to scan insurance policies? And hopefully with enough English skills to avoid resorting to barking and snapping at the old pensioner sitting in front of them? It would be easy enough to fake these wallet friendly sized insurance cards - just saying. In any situation of ambiguity, there's corresponding opportunity for exploitation. And Thai bureaucracy/law enforcement seems particularly good at ambiguity... 

[fresher]

"It will be applied to immigrants applying for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” , who will stay in the country for no more than one year."

 

I think this should say 90days? The one year multi-entry non-immigrant OA visa for retired people is no longer available in the UK or any other country I believe. I can currently only get a single entry visa of this type which allows up to 90 days.

 

Or are they re-introducing the one year multi-entry non-immigrant OA visa for retired people? That would be good news.

[Max69xl]

4 minutes ago, PEE TEE said:

Already companies are jumping on the bandwagon. No doubt they insure the uninsurable. and NOT pay out if needed by some small print again it's all to do with making money. I assume it will also be effective for extended stay retirement visas and not only tourist . so if you are well off and have loads of money you still have to have insurance . Not confusing assurance policies there is a difference. 

As i see now lots of adverts for life assurance (death only) policies      

"I assume it will also be effective for extended stay retirement visas and not only tourist."

What are you rambling about? It only affects long term visas, the O-A and O-X. The O-X already requires a health insurance. 

[ThomasThBKK]

18 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Don't you think every western country charges non-citizens extra if having no travel insurance or other insurance? You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Health care is free in almost every country in Europe for citizens living there full time. Non-citizens can be charged not only double prize,but 100 times the normal prize for example surgery. Dual pricing is common everywhere in the world.

 

That's just a myth, nothing is free. 

 

The premium in taxes for German public health insurance is up to 50 000 euro each year, yes you read correctly 50 thousand euro each year, that's why every high earning German is privately insured.  This is half paid by you and half by your employer. 

 

4 minutes ago, lupin said:

I can assure you... if you bother to go look on their site... PE visas fall under the class of a tourist visa. It is in the FAQ on site, it is included as part of their terms and conditions and part of their application process.... I'm on my second PE visa. Go check yourself... it SPECIFICALLY states as much on their website.

 

Also keep in mind, thailand elite is wholey owned and operated by TAT - TOURISM Authority of thailand... mmmkay

No they don't, unlike you I've read the ministerial regulation myself. 

 

I think it was @jackdd who made a whole thread about it: 

 

It doesn't matter what rubbish Thai elite advertises, these are an entire different visa class called privilege entry with their own regulation issued under a section that isn't tourism. 

Thailand elite knows nothing about their visa, don't listen to them. 

 

 

 

[Jeffrey346]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

There are 3 types of hospital in Thailand.

1. Government hospital

2. Private hospital for people paying into the SS scheme

3. Private hospitals.

 

You are using No2., it's a private hospital so it's more expensive.

I use No1., and pay the actual costs plus 50bht for being a foreigner.

You are wrong. I know which hospitals I go to and they are all what you refer to as No 1. 

 

[Yasobill]

My extension for Non OA retirement Visa is due on October 22 of this year. Will I require the insurance when I extend on the 22nd, or on the 31st when it becomes effective, or when I extend again in 2020?

 

thanks in advance!!

Bill

[PumpkinEater]

Lost in translation: MY understanding

 

Since the Non OA is good for one year, the requirement at time of OA application proof of medical insurance “not more than a year” 

seems like a valid explanation.

 

What they should have said is “Proof of medical insurance required at time of NON OA Visa application for the duration (one year) of Visa validity.

 

Cheers!

 

[lupin]

1 minute ago, ThomasThBKK said:

 

That's just a myth, nothing is free. 

 

The premium in taxes for German public health insurance is up to 50 000 euro each year, yes you read correctly 50 thousand euro each year, that's why every high earning German is privately insured.  This is half paid by you and half by your employer. 

 

No they don't, unlike you I've read the ministerial regulation myself. 

 

I think it was @jackdd who made a whole thread about it: 

 

It doesn't matter what rubbish Thai elite advertises, these are an entire different visa class called privilege entry with their own regulation issued under a section that isn't tourism. 

Thailand elite knows nothing about their visa, don't listen to them. 

 

 

 

yeah dosnt matter what TOURISM Authority of Thailand says if it doesn't support your comments...

[PEE TEE]

3 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

"I assume it will also be effective for extended stay retirement visas and not only tourist."

What are you rambling about? It only affects long term visas, the O-A and O-X. The O-X already requires a health insurance. 

ok so is an extended stay not long term then 

 

[Thaiwrath]

14 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

It costs me B280 for any hospital visit as I am married to a Gov employee. My meds which cost B25,000 are covered by the same B280 fee.

Are you married to a Gov employee as well?

I use the Government hospital in Khon Kaen, and it costs me 50 baht for consultation, plus cost price medication, e.g., Tramadol, 100 tablets, 100 baht.

Even my weekly physio sessions, including Ultrasound, electrolysis, heat pack and 30 minutes in exercise room was less than 280 baht !

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, Yasobill said:

My extension for Non OA retirement Visa is due on October 22 of this year. Will I require the insurance when I extend on the 22nd, or on the 31st when it becomes effective, or when I extend again in 2020?

From what the police order says- the insurance requirement  will only apply to a new O-A issued after 21 October 2019  and any extensions from then on.  The police order is listed on the other thread.

[Jeffrey346]

1 minute ago, Thaiwrath said:

I use the Government hospital in Khon Kaen, and it costs me 50 baht for consultation, plus cost price medication, e.g., Tramadol, 100 tablets, 100 baht.

Even my weekly physio sessions, including Ultrasound, electrolysis, heat pack and 30 minutes in exercise room was less than 280 baht !

So I agree it's a Gov hospital. Not a Private Gov Hospital. I had a stent done at Khon Kaen Hospital. The Bill was B278,000. I paid B280.

If I was not covered by my wife's gov plan it would of cost B278,000.

[ThomasThBKK]

5 minutes ago, lupin said:

yeah dosnt matter what TOURISM Authority of Thailand says if it doesn't support your comments...

Yes it doesn't matter what they say correct. 

 

The ministry of interior classified  the PE visa in law, and they are the only ones who have any say about visa regulations

 

 

Thai elite marketing doesn't matter, they also advertise it as business and investment visas. 

"As a frequent business traveler to Thailand you will marvel at your effortless arrival. Your Elite Personal Assistant, will greet you as you leave the airplane; guide you through immigration; help you collect your luggage; and escort you to your limousine hassle-free."

 

Oh now it's suddenly a business visa right... 

 

 

Tourist visas cannot be issued for longer than 90 days, see immigration act. 

 

[Starfish And Coffee]

3 hours ago, verticalift said:

 I recently switched from BUPA Global (UK), over to CIGNA in Dubai for my global coverage.

 

My i ask you why you switched from BUPA / AETNA to CIGNA ?

[ubon farang]

3 hours ago, tjinks said:

What about Non-imm O based on marriage?

no no no  u are ok  i have that but i got medical insurance because i am 62 and i need medical help soon i just want to go to a pvt hospital   but u dont need medical insurance non 0 based on marriage