Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance...

[SpokaneAl]

This from the announcement done by immigration that shows the procedure for entry clearly states it is effective like everything else in the order on October 31. It does not apply for OA visas issued before that date.

I am counting on that Joe. Your level headed return to center is appreciated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

This from the announcement done by immigration that shows the procedure for entry clearly states it is effective like everything else in the order on October 31. It does not apply for OA visas issued before that date.

There has been too much hysteria on TV about health insurance. There are always options to stay in Thailand.

I have lived a blameless life here for ten years, seven of them on a retirement visa/extension.

Immigration officers always have discretion on individual applicants. I can't get health insurance here due to age and pre-existing conditions. I have top level private health cover in Australia.

In the remote possibility I was refused my next extension, I could always come back on tourist visas. However, my first option would be to take my Thai GF into Immigration to explain our history, then ask why we are being forcibly separated.

 

[Bournville]

Quote

Absolute latest from Immigration on Insurance

I think you mean..on that day, in THAT IM office, with THAT particular IO guy. 

 

My experience is totally different. In Krabi IM..with One particular IO .  ..I was told to present my health insurance. I am on my 4th, consecutive, OA Visa and my stamps. 

 

Thailand IM is a totally CF. Its a lottery specifically for farang 555.

[Bournville]

14 hours ago, Pib said:

If you are talking about the Thai insurance site, I know Pacific Cross does....maybe some of the other also.  I really haven't looked that close....but Pacific Cross list prices up to 75 years old.

https://www.pacificcrosshealth.com/en/health-insurance/longstay-visa/

So for me, 54.000 per year premium. OK. Not bad. But only 420.000 per year coverage??? Thats doesn't sound like a good deal to me. If I have a chronic illness or a bad accident..400k I imagine (yes??) would be easy to reach. 

[AussieBob18]

50 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There has been too much hysteria on TV about health insurance. There are always options to stay in Thailand.

I have lived a blameless life here for ten years, seven of them on a retirement visa/extension.

Immigration officers always have discretion on individual applicants. I can't get health insurance here due to age and pre-existing conditions. I have top level private health cover in Australia.

In the remote possibility I was refused my next extension, I could always come back on tourist visas. However, my first option would be to take my Thai GF into Immigration to explain our history, then ask why we are being forcibly separated.

 

Mate - if it is an option for you then maybe get married and switch to extension based on marriage. Whilst it is true that they may apply the health insurance requirement to those on marriage Visas and marriage Extensions, it will probably take some time for that to be enacted.  The problem with making that a new blanket rule would be that it would also catch out all those married who are under 50, so it may take them a long time to resolve that. 

 

At some time in the future they will require tourists to have some form of travel insurance. That will also probably take a some time as well, because they dont want to lose any more Chinese tourists.  But it will probably happen. Maybe some inter-Government health coverage deal will be made with China, and then they will be free to hit all the others.  

 

[patinchis]

I am curious as to what makes you conclude that any information from an embassy or consulate is absolutely meaningless. When I ask a precise and specific question and the consulate answers precisely and specifically I should automatically conclude that what they say is meaningless?

For those of us looking for an answer to this non imm o-a issued prior to October 31 and traveling on or after that date, where would you suggest we go for answers?

In that I was very concerned about that question which affects me specifically, I went to the place where I bought my visa and they emailed me back a precise answer.

I will be bringing a copy of that email with me, but again, what do you suggest as a better solution?


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Hope so as my wife is due to come and go on her prior to 31/10 O-A visa and it seems ridiculous that she would need health insurance for bi monthly stays, hopefully the visa issued in london in August will be respected as multiple entry during its one year duration....I personally feel that anyone with an OA will be allowed entry as a) they were issued prior to health insurance requirement and b) issued post requirement ,when they wouid have not been issued without it.


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[happy chappie]

And heres the latest from yesterday at immo.the insurance required is only valid if you get it through one of the government recommended companies...don't just go out and get your own.also my friend phoned a company and asked them if this was good for his visa and he said yes but mt friend looked through the list and that company wasn't on the list.if he had taken it on the sales mans word he would of been throwing the money down the drain and conned.ahyway he went into immo in udon and she demanded his health cover but my wife said it don't start yet and after the immo losing face she had to issue his extention.she even knocked him back on the 12 months proof of income and said it's only 2 months so my wife looked and pointed the 12 months of payments.again losing face.

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

I am curious as to what makes you conclude that any information from an embassy or consulate is absolutely meaningless.

As Jingthing has said, it could be meaningless when it comes to MFA's understanding of how Immigration functions. Look at MFA's website concerning O-A "Long Stay" visas:

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

 

Now, scroll down to see where you can obtain an O-A "Long Stay" visa:

Quote

 Applicant may submit their application at the Royal Thai embassy or Royal Thai Consulate-General in their home/residence country or at the Office of the Immigration Bureau in Thailand located onGovernment Center B, Chaengwattana Soi 7, Laksi, Bangkok 10210, Tel 0-2141-9889.

Oh really? You can get an O-A in country at Immigration? MFA must believe that any procedure, like converting a visa exempt entry into a Non Imm O at Immigration, eventually resulting in a one-year "Long Stay", is really obtaining an O-A visa in country.

 

With such knowledge of Immigration, MFA probably thinks that after Oct 31st, any "long stay" stamp issued by Immigration will have an insurance requirement attached....

 

Christ, just add some more fees for visas and extensions to cover all those hospitals getting stiffed. After all, most of those unpaid bills don't represent costs, but profit. A fee structure certainly could deal with just costs.

 

And, of course, MFA won't require insurance on tourist visas -- that boat is too fragile to rock right now. But most likely, that's where most of the unpaid bills are coming from.

 

Or use the Malaysian example, and require retirees to have a dedicated bank account that can be garnished for unpaid bills. Tie this account to your annual extension renewal, thus in the combo option, lowering the monthly 65k requirement.

 

And we thought the TM30 deal was a fiasco....

[el jefe]

6 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

I am curious as to what makes you conclude that any information from an embassy or consulate is absolutely meaningless. When I ask a precise and specific question and the consulate answers precisely and specifically I should automatically conclude that what they say is meaningless?

For those of us looking for an answer to this non imm o-a issued prior to October 31 and traveling on or after that date, where would you suggest we go for answers?

In that I was very concerned about that question which affects me specifically, I went to the place where I bought my visa and they emailed me back a precise answer.

I will be bringing a copy of that email with me, but again, what do you suggest as a better solution?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've ever asked many questions at the NY Consulate about what Immigration will do in Thailand. Usually I was just looking for confirmation of something simple. But they have replied to EVERY question with "Ask at Immigration." I wasn't even looking for anything in writing, just a verbal yes or no. I'm surprised other consulates are answering in emails but to rely on those answers when there is so much ambiguity would seem wishful thinking at best.

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, patinchis said:

Hope so as my wife is due to come and go on her prior to 31/10 O-A visa and it seems ridiculous that she would need health insurance for bi monthly stays, hopefully the visa issued in london in August will be respected as multiple entry during its one year duration....I personally feel that anyone with an OA will be allowed entry as a) they were issued prior to health insurance requirement and b) issued post requirement ,when they wouid have not been issued without it.


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I'm in the same boat. i got an O-A visa last month (my first ever) and entered Thailand obviously with no problem. I'm leaving this week with my wife and we're returning after Nov 1. She's on a Retirement Extension based on an O visa. it's ludicrous to think that they'll let her back in but not me. Even more interesting will be if they deny me entry. We're flying a budget carrier. I can't imagine they'll know the intricacies of the constant changes in Thailand's visa rules. If I'm denied entry into Thailand I won't be allowed back to the country of departure because I will no longer have a valid visa there.
Based on the prior 661 posts I should be allowed back in for another year but I'm looking forward to the adventure.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, el jefe said:

I'm in the same boat. i got an O-A visa last month (my first ever) and entered Thailand obviously with no problem. I'm leaving this week with my wife and we're returning after Nov 1. 

 

As with Spokane Al, please do post here on what happens upon your November return. Given the totally incoherent way Immigration operates, member reports may be the only way we really end up knowing how they're going to enforce the new insurance rule.

 

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As with Spokane Al, please do post here on what happens upon your November return. Given the totally incoherent way Immigration operates, member reports may be the only way we really end up knowing how they're going to enforce the new insurance rule.

 

My extension was due on November 3, but actually completed two weeks earlier. The extension is dated as expiring November 3, 2020. So I guess October 31 is when the shoe will drop, or not as the case may be.

It seems to me TV posters are getting different treatment from different Immigration Offices and individual officers. Perhaps it would be worthwhile to compile statistics on which IO's are good and bad to attend.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Christ, just add some more fees for visas and extensions to cover all those hospitals getting stiffed. After all, most of those unpaid bills don't represent costs, but profit. A fee structure certainly could deal with just costs.

I just looked at what a multi entry O is going to be in europe.. 175 euros.. 

 

 

[blorg]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

This from the announcement done by immigration that shows the procedure for entry clearly states it is effective like everything else in the order on October 31. It does not apply for OA visas issued before that date.

I would interpret that as meaning it does not apply to ENTRIES on an OA before October 31. So if you BOTH get your visa AND enter on it before October 31, you are good.

 

That after October 31 they are going to start checking for insurance on entry. I mean that's the only reasonable reading of the police order as it then goes on to detail how immigration officers at the border will stamp only up to the expiry date of the policy.

 

None of that specific police order has anything to do with the MFA or visa issuing, it's addressed specifically to immigration officers, about what they need to do now. 

 

Now they may or may not actually implement this at the border. But that's the plain reading of what the order actually says.

[KeeTua]

"3.An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A for multiple entry but the coverage period of health insurance has already expired, even if the visa is still valid, will not be permitted to enter the Kingdom."

 

I'm curious. If someone attempts to enter on a Non O-A after Oct. 31 but their health insurance does not meet Immigration specs, is getting stamped in visa exempt an option and would that impact the validity of the current Non O-A?

 

They would then have a chance to sort out the insurance and then do a border run to re-enter on the Non O-A.

[Timofe]

Ubon Joe deserves our gratitude for doing a wonderful job here and for almost always being right.  He’s a much better man than I. That said, Blorg is almost certainly correct that, on the face of the available documentation (as quoted by Joe), those who receive an A-O visa on or before October 31, but enter after that date, will be subject to the health insurance requirement.  Joe’s contrary interpretation of the clauses he cites is extremely strained. Blorg’s interpretation, as Blorg says, is much more reasonable.  If you are inclined blindly to believe Joe, more power to you. But you should read the short clauses Joe cites and consider how you would interpret them.  Obviously Blorg’s reading gives rise to many practical issues, but I am talking here about interpreting the available documentation. 

While I am disagreeing with Ubon Joe, I will mention the following.  I have shown, on a separate string (and again on the face of available Thai documentation), that police order 548/2562 clearly says that the health insurance requirement will apply when those of us who originally entered on A-O visas seek an extension after October 31. 
 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

1 hour ago, KeeTua said:

"3.An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A for multiple entry but the coverage period of health insurance has already expired, even if the visa is still valid, will not be permitted to enter the Kingdom."

 

I'm curious. If someone attempts to enter on a Non O-A after Oct. 31 but their health insurance does not meet Immigration specs, is getting stamped in visa exempt an option and would that impact the validity of the current Non O-A?

 

Agreed, I don't see how anyone can read that, noting that after the date arrivals will only be stamped up to the date of the insurance expiry, and not conclude that they need insurance to enter. 

 

Of course no one can know how this end up in practice until we get reports, but I don't understand the way others read this to the contrary. 

[el jefe]

1 hour ago, Timofe said:

Ubon Joe deserves our gratitude for doing a wonderful job here and for almost always being right.  He’s a much better man than I. That said, Blorg is almost certainly correct that, on the face of the available documentation (as quoted by Joe), those who receive an A-O visa on or before October 31, but enter after that date, will be subject to the health insurance requirement.  Joe’s contrary interpretation of the clauses he cites is extremely strained. Blorg’s interpretation, as Blorg says, is much more reasonable.  If you are inclined blindly to believe Joe, more power to you. But you should read the short clauses Joe cites and consider how you would interpret them.  Obviously Blorg’s reading gives rise to many practical issues, but I am talking here about interpreting the available documentation. 

While I am disagreeing with Ubon Joe, I will mention the following.  I have shown, on a separate string (and again on the face of available Thai documentation), that police order 548/2562 clearly says that the health insurance requirement will apply when those of us who originally entered on A-O visas seek an extension after October 31. 
 

 

 

Ah, but the key is in your last sentence. I'm not seeking an "extension". I'll be re-entering on the same O-A visa that was issued a month ago. That's the point of a Multiple entry visa. Don't you think it would be odd that if I stay in Thailand I won't need insurance but if I leave and come back and only spend a few months of the year here i will need insurance?
I'm probably going to throw away 1,000 baht and buy a re-entry permit. That will certainly solve the problem temporarily for me and anyone else who is here early in their first year of an O-A visa.

[Martyp]

Hmmm. I thought UbonJoe had closed commenting but I guess it's open season again.

 

Only 5 more days until October 31st!

 

How many pages of inconclusive discussion can we generate between now and then?

[Mango Bob]

I received this email this morning from some Thai Visa Center.  It said I had a conversation with someone.  I don't remember talking with anyone here.  It just something I would never do.  I doubt I would ever use a service to do my extension of stay.  But here is the email.

 

Hello XXXXXX,

I sincerely apologize for the delay.

This is in response to your conversation with one of our staff members a while ago about obtaining a Thai Retirement Visa / Extension through Thai Visa Centre.

Also we have recently had a lot of our customers concerned about the new Health Insurance Requirements that will come into effect October 31st 2019. Please DO NOT WORRY. This only applies to those who apply for a O-A visa outside of Thailand at a Thai embassy.

If you provide us with your current visa type, we can quickly provide you with a price quote.

I look forward to helping you stay in our wonderful country.

 

What do you think is this spam or the truth?

 

[TheAppletons]

46 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

<snip>

What do you think is this spam or the truth?

 

 

  Spam.

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, Mango Bob said:

I received this email this morning from some Thai Visa Center.  It said I had a conversation with someone.  I don't remember talking with anyone here.  It just something I would never do.  I doubt I would ever use a service to do my extension of stay.  But here is the email.

 

Hello XXXXXX,

I sincerely apologize for the delay.

This is in response to your conversation with one of our staff members a while ago about obtaining a Thai Retirement Visa / Extension through Thai Visa Centre.

Also we have recently had a lot of our customers concerned about the new Health Insurance Requirements that will come into effect October 31st 2019. Please DO NOT WORRY. This only applies to those who apply for a O-A visa outside of Thailand at a Thai embassy.

If you provide us with your current visa type, we can quickly provide you with a price quote.

I look forward to helping you stay in our wonderful country.

 

What do you think is this spam or the truth?

 

What isn’t clear? It is a business solicitation. They are looking for new business.
 

The truth of the statement about the health insurance requirement? It is a widely known interpretation of the insurance requirement. Just review the last 46 pages of this discussion thread.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

I just looked at what a multi entry O is going to be in europe.. 175 euros.. 

 

 

And in some places not available at any price. 

[Chou Anou]

I'm planning to retire in Thailand in 2026, and I just turned 60 this year. Since most (all?) Thai insurance providers will kick you out in x years if you didn't open your policy before turning 60, I opened a Thai Aetna health insurance policy last December, when i was still 59. Not crazy about paying for health insurance I'm not present to use (though I do visit for about 6 weeks every other year leading up to retirement, and my current policy is only about 22k baht per year), but at least I won't get booted at 70 or whatever.

[Momofarang]

2 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

I received this email this morning from some Thai Visa Center.  It said I had a conversation with someone.  I don't remember talking with anyone here.  It just something I would never do.  I doubt I would ever use a service to do my extension of stay.  But here is the email.

 

Hello XXXXXX,

I sincerely apologize for the delay.

This is in response to your conversation with one of our staff members a while ago about obtaining a Thai Retirement Visa / Extension through Thai Visa Centre.

Also we have recently had a lot of our customers concerned about the new Health Insurance Requirements that will come into effect October 31st 2019. Please DO NOT WORRY. This only applies to those who apply for a O-A visa outside of Thailand at a Thai embassy.

If you provide us with your current visa type, we can quickly provide you with a price quote.

I look forward to helping you stay in our wonderful country.

 

What do you think is this spam or the truth?

 

Here you have it, same story as the money in the bank, most people will end up staying of illegal visas.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

What do you think is this spam or the truth?

Truth

Some informed immigration offices and/or officers have already stated the same thing.

[roobaa01]

im utterly confused when comparing the police order and the german thai embassy text on the health insurance issue. hence i seek clarification on

 

1. if 12 months have passed and i re-enter to obtain the second 12 months ,  must i buy a thai health insurance then from that list or can i still use my german one if valid ??

 

2. the issue of extension of marriage/retirement out of non-oa is not mentioned on the german, bitish , us thai  embassy web page as to mandatory health insurance why ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[Martyp]

7 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

im utterly confused when comparing the police order and the german thai embassy text on the health insurance issue. hence i seek clarification on

 

1. if 12 months have passed and i re-enter to obtain the second 12 months ,  must i buy a thai health insurance then from that list or can i still use my german one if valid ??

 

2. the issue of extension of marriage/retirement out of non-oa is not mentioned on the german, bitish , us thai  embassy web page as to mandatory health insurance why ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

For # 1 just wait to see what happens. This discussion thread is 46 pages long and there is still no answer to that question. It is hardly an immediate problem.

 

For # 2 just wait. It is not October 31st yet and they need the technical person available to update the website. Some, but not all, websites have been updated. I'm sure that if it is not posted on the website then they will inform applicants manually as they apply.

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

im utterly confused when comparing the police order and the german thai embassy text on the health insurance issue. hence i seek clarification on

1. if 12 months have passed and i re-enter to obtain the second 12 months ,  must i buy a thai health insurance then from that list or can i still use my german one if valid ??

2. the issue of extension of marriage/retirement out of non-oa is not mentioned on the german, bitish , us thai  embassy web page as to mandatory health insurance why ?

Thai embassies and consulates only issue visas. They never know anything about getting extensions and etc at immigration here.

1. If you can get insurance that meets the requirements then it may be accepted for the 2nd entry from a OA visa.

2. The insurance requirements only apply to getting a OA long stay visa at a embassy or official consulate and entries from them after the 31st.

[UncleMhee]

Just to put the cat among the pigeons; the Canberra Embassy (Australia), is saying the insurance must be purchased from Thai insurers and both the policy and certificate will be required, to be issued the visa. 

So no cheaper policies from the home country allowed then? That's what it's saying!

 

"In addition to the existing required documents, visa applicant for Non-Immigrant Visa “O-A” (for retirement long stay) must furnish a completed “Insurance Certificate” as attached, as well as an original health insurance policy. A copy of the health insurance policy may only be accepted, provided that the applicant purchases the health insurance from participating Thai insurance companies as listed here http://longstay.tgia.org/."

 

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/Home/visa

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by UncleMhee