advice to stay a little longer

[lupin]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Thailand Elite is a private company, their only purpose is to sell as many memberships as possible.

The people there don't speak for the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

Thailand Elite is wholey owned and operated by Tourism Authority of Thailand

 

In July 2003, Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd., the operator of Thailand Elite Card, gained state-owned enterprise status within the Tourism Authority of Thailand (“TAT”), its sole shareholder.

[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, lupin said:

Thailand Elite is wholey owned and operated by Tourism Authority of Thailand

 

In July 2003, Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd., the operator of Thailand Elite Card, gained state-owned enterprise status within the Tourism Authority of Thailand (“TAT”), its sole shareholder.

Yes, it's state owned, this doesn't mean the persons working there speak for the state.

This would be as if you said the bank teller in a KTB branch speaks for the Thai government.

I doubt that every email which they send out gets approved by the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

[lupin]

12 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Yes, it's state owned, this doesn't mean the persons working there speak for the state.

This would be as if you said the bank teller in a KTB branch speaks for the Thai government.

I doubt that every email which they send out gets approved by the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

I think thats's a ridiculous equivalency... but ok, do we think that the branch of KTB would put themselves in a position to be "not in accordance with the official rules." applicable to banks?

 

I dont see the value of getting into hypotheticals or the minutia of interpretations. I've simply said here is what Thailand Elite (a state enterprise owned by TAT) have said, here is the law that allows for what they have said ... and what people do with that info is "up to them"

[Suradit69]

On October 18, 2019 at 6:49 PM, krey said:

 

So it ok to be here on an expired visa, I guess the year stamp and the actual visa get me a little confused on how it works and what is considered correct.

Not speaking  of the Elite specifically, but many people remain in Thailand on a permission to stay long after their visa express. Some are here for a second year after the O-A visa they used to enter had expired.

 

That isn't an extension but just a new one year permission obtained by using the O-A to enter just before it expires.

 

Not quite same thing, but many other people stay in Thailand for years after their original visa expired, by getting extensions of their permission to stay renewed annually. I haven't had a visa in more than ten years and others have been here much longer than that without a valid visa. As long as immigrations gives you a permission to stay, you're OK to remain in the country.

[ukrules]

12 hours ago, lupin said:

This is an email from Thailand elite prior to my elite membership expiring where I asked about the 6th year where it was explained anything beyond your membership puts you into immediate overstay.

Well that is interesting, when did you receive this email?

[lupin]

17 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Well that is interesting, when did you receive this email?

The first email was in reply to my questions to them from several months ago... the second email (which is the screenshot) is an email sent out to all members whose membership were set to expire soon (I received that 6 weeks before mine expired).

 

Interestingly, the others that I know that also received this email (several in the thai visa advice Facebook group), all got their memberships after April 2014 which may or may not have something to do with the passing of immigration order 79/2557 in April 2014 that sets guidelines to amendment of permissions of stay when requirements of a visa or extension are no longer met. But I have no real indication that'd be relevant.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, lupin said:

The first email was in reply to my questions to them from several months ago... the second email (which is the screenshot) is an email sent out to all members whose membership were set to expire soon (I received that 6 weeks before mine expired).

 

Interestingly, the others that I know that also received this email (several in the thai visa advice Facebook group), all got their memberships after April 2014 which may or may not have something to do with the passing of immigration order 79/2557 in April 2014 that sets guidelines to amendment of permissions of stay when requirements of a visa or extension are no longer met. But I have no real indication that'd be relevant.

I received a completely different renewal email to you, it mentioned nothing about extensions at all.

 

I received this in April regarding my expiration in June, the text above the image matches what's inside the image :

 

 

The messages are very different. I wonder if there was some change in the rules around that time.

 

 

[lupin]

22 minutes ago, ukrules said:

I received a completely different renewal email to you, it mentioned nothing about extensions at all.

 

I received this in April regarding my expiration in June, the text above the image matches what's inside the image :

 

 

The messages are very different. I wonder if there was some change in the rules around that time.

 

 

I received that email as well, separately, perhaps 2 weeks before the other email pictured in screenshot. I agree there does appear to be a change. I've only seen other members starting to mention this very recently over the last 8 - 10 weeks. My membership was set to expire Oct 23rd, I think I started receiving re-newels email around early August.

[HuskerDo]

13 hours ago, lupin said:

Thailand Elite is wholey owned and operated by Tourism Authority of Thailand

 

In July 2003, Thailand Privilege Card Co., Ltd., the operator of Thailand Elite Card, gained state-owned enterprise status within the Tourism Authority of Thailand (“TAT”), its sole shareholder.

Does going thru Thailand Elite alleviate the requirements such as monthly bank transfers or having 800,000 baht in Thai bank?

 

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Does going thru Thailand Elite alleviate the requirements such as monthly bank transfers or having 800,000 baht in Thai bank?

 

Yes

[HuskerDo]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Yes

Thank you Jack. Much appreciated!!

[HuskerDo]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Yes

Sorry Jack. One more question. Does it also allow a person to be free on the mandatory health insurance requirements? Any idea?

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Thank you Jack. Much appreciated!!

I'm on extensions based on retirement. I came late to los already over 50. No experience. In those days you could live here on visa exempt if travel was your thing. Anyway after being here 7+ yr now I would have obtained elite even though I qualified for extensions. Have good look into it.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, HuskerDo said:

Sorry Jack. One more question. Does it also allow a person to be free on the mandatory health insurance requirements? Any idea?

There are crazy number of pages about new requirements for non O-A. 

People typing from a to z on various opinions. 

IMHO it applies to O-A issued Oct 31+. As for elite i would wait till latter date. Let dust settle then make my call. My guess zero requirement for elite and also non o extensions. 

[krey]

hey guys

Just an update on my situation

I did leave and come back and got a new Stamp.  Thai Elite told me 75% I would not get a year stamp but only up to my expire date in Feb 2020.  Well I got a full year stamp until Next Oct 2020.  so I guess I was one of the lucky 25% haha or they just said this to try to get me to get another membership, not really sure. 

 

All I want is to get to the summer so I can go home to Canada in the warmth and perhaps get the Thai Elite again in the future but was not sure when I would be back so didn't want to commit.

 

I asked the immigration girl that stamped me can I stay until Oct 2020 even though my Thai Elite Visa expires in Feb 2020 and she said yes.  She then said if you want to leave the country and come back though you need to get a re entry permit as the Elite benefits are all gone in Feb.  I do not plan to leave  but nice to know.  Anyway I think this is good it will save me a couple border runs which I was hoping to avoid.

[krey]

Thai Elite still saying I can't stay past the date, telling me that the immigration probably not aware of the visa expiration date when they gave me the year stamp

[BritTim]

56 minutes ago, krey said:

Thai Elite still saying I can't stay past the date, telling me that the immigration probably not aware of the visa expiration date when they gave me the year stamp

That makes absolutely no sense. The visa sticker that they examine before giving you a one-year permission to stay clearly specifies the expiry date. What might be true (and is, being charitable, a possible explanation for the misinformation they are giving) is that an extension of stay past the expiry date of the visa might not be allowed. They may be confused.

[lupin]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

That makes absolutely no sense. The visa sticker that they examine before giving you a one-year permission to stay clearly specifies the expiry date. What might be true (and is, being charitable, a possible explanation for the misinformation they are giving) is that an extension of stay past the expiry date of the visa might not be allowed. They may be confused.

It makes complete sense... this is Thailand Elites policy. It is part of the conditions of their program. It is spelled out in the email sent out to its members that the permission to stay/visa expires as soon as your membership expires. IO doing the stamping are more than likely unaware of this. Thailand elite send a list of expired memberships to immigration each month.... for someone getting a 6th year, its probably all fine until you need to do something at changwattana that year, at which point you run the risk of being pulled up for being on overstay.

 

[jacko45k]

7 hours ago, krey said:

Thai Elite still saying I can't stay past the date, telling me that the immigration probably not aware of the visa expiration date when they gave me the year stamp

Hardly likely is it, immigration would most certainly check the expiry date on entry. 

[krey]

I got the same email that someone else posted here from them

 

"

Thailand Elite visa will automatically expire no later than the expiry date of your membership. The Government Relations Department usually sends the list of the member whose membership has expired to the immigration office.

 

Now, for your case, having the entry stamp that is over your membership expiration. We are afraid that you will be considered as 'overstay' in the immigration record after we send the abovementioned official letter to them. There is very little chance that immigration considers this as their mistake, but they will most likely consider this as your false.

Similar cases like this have happened before. The most recent one was last month. One of our renewed members got the arrival stamp from Suvarnabhumi Airport, but he had an appointment to affix the new visa at Chaeng Wattana Immigration. On the appointment date, the immigration officer checked the record and found that this member had overstayed since his membership expired. Not only he had to pay for the overstay, but he also could not affix Thailand Elite Visa due to overstaying record. So he had to leave the country and affix a new Elite visa upon arrival. We tried to negotiate with the immigration but they refused and the reason they gave us was that member should know well about his membership expiry date (which is the end of the Thailand Elite Visa).

 

We would like to clarify because we do not want you to have any problem which might be caused you overstay or accidentally if over 90 days, you will be banned by immigration for 1 year.

 

Therefore, the immigration and Star Visa's answered base on your arrival stamp in your passport without knowing Thailand Elite process after your membership expires.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your kind understanding in this matter. Any further inquiries you may have, please do not hesitate to contact us at your most convenience.

Best regards,  

"

[lupin]

40 minutes ago, krey said:

I got the same email that someone else posted here from them

 

"

Thailand Elite visa will automatically expire no later than the expiry date of your membership. The Government Relations Department usually sends the list of the member whose membership has expired to the immigration office.

 

Now, for your case, having the entry stamp that is over your membership expiration. We are afraid that you will be considered as 'overstay' in the immigration record after we send the abovementioned official letter to them. There is very little chance that immigration considers this as their mistake, but they will most likely consider this as your false.

Similar cases like this have happened before. The most recent one was last month. One of our renewed members got the arrival stamp from Suvarnabhumi Airport, but he had an appointment to affix the new visa at Chaeng Wattana Immigration. On the appointment date, the immigration officer checked the record and found that this member had overstayed since his membership expired. Not only he had to pay for the overstay, but he also could not affix Thailand Elite Visa due to overstaying record. So he had to leave the country and affix a new Elite visa upon arrival. We tried to negotiate with the immigration but they refused and the reason they gave us was that member should know well about his membership expiry date (which is the end of the Thailand Elite Visa).

 

We would like to clarify because we do not want you to have any problem which might be caused you overstay or accidentally if over 90 days, you will be banned by immigration for 1 year.

 

Therefore, the immigration and Star Visa's answered base on your arrival stamp in your passport without knowing Thailand Elite process after your membership expires.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your kind understanding in this matter. Any further inquiries you may have, please do not hesitate to contact us at your most convenience.

Best regards,  

"

Ayep... and I've had several very long conversions with different EPL staff at CW who have said exactly the same. I've not tried to make any recommendations at all, but I do think it is irresponsible to claim Thailand Elite (essentially TAT) dont know what they are talking about, or that they are lieing to sell more memberships and that it is fine to completely ignore them... which could potentially put you in overstay.

 

 

[krey]

1 hour ago, lupin said:

Ayep... and I've had several very long conversions with different EPL staff at CW who have said exactly the same. I've not tried to make any recommendations at all, but I do think it is irresponsible to claim Thailand Elite (essentially TAT) dont know what they are talking about, or that they are lieing to sell more memberships and that it is fine to completely ignore them... which could potentially put you in overstay.

 

 

yeah this is exactly where I did not want to be, Uncertainty . 

[lupin]

21 minutes ago, krey said:

yeah this is exactly where I did not want to be, Uncertainty . 

If you were/are definitely going to re-new in future (say at the end of the 6th year)... then it is at that point that you are more likely going to get discovered as being in overstay since it is at that point that you'd be dealing with EPL staff at changwattana.

 

I see no advantage in trying to get a 6th year for free instead of re-newing now - you get the 4% discount, which you would NOT get if you tried to buy new membership again at the end of your "free/6th" year.

 

The other side of the coin,  if you had no plan to re-new at the end of the 6th year... then you would likely have no issues with that 6th year. But I dont want to suggest one course of action over another since I'm convinced that as far as TE are concerned, you are in overstay at that point and although IO officers may not ever pick up on it, the potential exists that some eagle-eye IO will.

 

 

[krey]

1 hour ago, lupin said:

If you were/are definitely going to re-new in future (say at the end of the 6th year)... then it is at that point that you are more likely going to get discovered as being in overstay since it is at that point that you'd be dealing with EPL staff at changwattana.

 

I see no advantage in trying to get a 6th year for free instead of re-newing now - you get the 4% discount, which you would NOT get if you tried to buy new membership again at the end of your "free/6th" year.

 

The other side of the coin,  if you had no plan to re-new at the end of the 6th year... then you would likely have no issues with that 6th year. But I dont want to suggest one course of action over another since I'm convinced that as far as TE are concerned, you are in overstay at that point and although IO officers may not ever pick up on it, the potential exists that some eagle-eye IO will.

 

 

yeah I hear what you are saying, my plan was to go home to Canada though but was hoping to go home in the summer instead of the winter so I was looking for options to stay a little longer.  I might do the Thai Elite in the future but it won't be for at least another full year perhaps longer so I did not want to commit to 500 000 Baht when I am unsure.  I mean I can still do the 2X border run where I get 30 days, extend, then go again get 30 days, then extend which will get me to the warmer months but I was hoping to avoid the border runs if this stamp could get me through to April, May June type dates

[lupin]

8 minutes ago, krey said:

yeah I hear what you are saying, my plan was to go home to Canada though but was hoping to go home in the summer instead of the winter so I was looking for options to stay a little longer.  I might do the Thai Elite in the future but it won't be for at least another full year perhaps longer so I did not want to commit to 500 000 Baht when I am unsure.  I mean I can still do the 2X border run where I get 30 days, extend, then go again get 30 days, then extend which will get me to the warmer months but I was hoping to avoid the border runs if this stamp could get me through to April, May June type dates

Unless you were very articulate in what you wanted at the border... an IO would likely stamp you in under the extension of stay of the Elite Visa anyway (unless you are already in the 6th year, which would require a re-entry permit before doing the bounce). If you were in the 6th year already... you could bounce without the re-entry permit which voids the permitted to stay under the elite visa... which then means you'd come in on exemption (or could go get a 60 day TR and come in on that then extend 30 days at CW)

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, krey said:

Therefore, the immigration and Star Visa's

Hold on a minute - 'Star Visa' - what is this?

 

I got my visa directly from Thailand Elite, maybe this explains why I didn't receive the email as it comes from some agency?

 

Don't confuse anything some third party for profit visa agency says with the official word from Thailand Elite.

[lupin]

26 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Hold on a minute - 'Star Visa' - what is this?

 

I got my visa directly from Thailand Elite, maybe this explains why I didn't receive the email as it comes from some agency?

 

Don't confuse anything some third party for profit visa agency says with the official word from Thailand Elite.

Certainly not.. I got mine from within Thailand and directly from Thailand Elite offices and affixed the visa sticker at CW with Thailand Elite.... (I've no idea what star visa is either). I still think you are likely correct when you suggest these rules may have changed recently and in line with the police order in April 2014. I've not yet heard of anyone who got their visa before April 2014 getting these notifications from Thailand Elite.

 

All communication I've had including all those emails/screenshots I posted are directly from Thailand Elite. None of the emails or screenshots I had mentioned "star visa"

[ukrules]

13 minutes ago, lupin said:

Certainly not.. I got mine from within Thailand and directly from Thailand Elite offices and affixed the visa sticker at CW.... (I've no idea what star visa is either). I still think you are likely correct when you suggest these rules may have changed recently and in line with the police order in April 2014. I've not yet heard of anyone who got their visa before April 2014 getting these notifications from Thailand Elite.

 

All communication I've had including all those emails/screenshots I posted are directly from Thailand Elite.

I got my Visa in June 2014. I have a feeling any rule change would have happened this year and since June. Any changes in the rules would affect people who enter after the rule change, if there was a change....

 

I've done another 90 day report very recently.

 

If you google 'Star Visa' it turns out they are an agent in Thailand who sell TE memberships.

[krey]

sorry for the confusion

1 I got my Thai Elite directly from Thai Elite the very first time.

2. I

3 hours ago, lupin said:

Unless you were very articulate in what you wanted at the border... an IO would likely stamp you in under the extension of stay of the Elite Visa anyway (unless you are already in the 6th year, which would require a re-entry permit before doing the bounce). If you were in the 6th year already... you could bounce without the re-entry permit which voids the permitted to stay under the elite visa... which then means you'd come in on exemption (or could go get a 60 day TR and come in on that then extend 30 days at CW)

I have the year stamp already, it will expire in October 2020.  I have no plans on leaving the country until it is time to go back to Canada which is up in the air on when at the moment. I would leave around May or June if I felt like this stamp could be used, if I can't use this stamp like Thai Elite is telling me in fears of overstay then I will either go home in February or do a couple tourist visa border runs to get my by.

 

Sorry for the confusion on the Star Visa.  Star Visa is just a visa agency company here in Chiang Mai.  For the 90 day reports I just give them my info and they take care of it for free under the Thai Elite agreement.  I used to do it myself but started having issues with the online and when they introduced the service in Chiang Mai for members I just took advantage of it to save me going to immigration myself.  They actually told me during my last 90 day that I could stay even with the visa expired, only Thai Elite themselves are the ones saying I would be on overstay at  this time. 

 

I did not buy the Thai Elite Visa from Star Visa, I got the Thai Elite directly from the company coming into Bangkok.

[krey]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

Hold on a minute - 'Star Visa' - what is this?

 

I got my visa directly from Thailand Elite, maybe this explains why I didn't receive the email as it comes from some agency?

 

Don't confuse anything some third party for profit visa agency says with the official word from Thailand Elite.

the email telling me about the overstay came directly from Thai Elite.  They even mentioned that Star Visa (which is just a visa agency in Chiang Mai that helps them out) are unaware of how the process works.  Thai Elite is saying that Star Visa statement on how I am allowed to stay on an expired visa is incorrect because they do not understand the process fully.