Retirement in Thailand… Too naive?

[webfact]

Retirement in Thailand… Too naive?

By The Phuket News

 

Will the mandatory health insurance for all foreigners staying in Thailand on the Non-Immigrant O-A ‘retirement visa’ coming into effect on Oct 31 leave elderly expats in Thailand with nothing to look forward to? Photo: The Phuket News

 

The mandatory health insurance requirement for all foreigners staying in Thailand on the Non-Immigrant O-A “retirement visa” will come into effect on Oct 31. The move to force all elderly expats staying in country to take out health insurance at exorbitant rates will have a dramatic, if not damning, impact on thousands of lives. Here is a letter sent to The Phuket News from a Swedish expat who has been living in Phuket for the past nine years. The letter draws a harrowing, poignant image of the bleak future that awaits many such expats once the mandatory health insurance requirement kicks in.

 

With my friend, the ambassador, I enjoyed talking about our many visits to Thailand and the work with economists associated with trade unions during the past 35 years and many Thai leaders from different walks of life I had the opportunity to greet, namely at conferences.

 

That exchange inspired the decision at the age of 75 to move to Phuket nine years ago. My wife and I brought, as many others have done, most of our home, including our furniture, a multitude of books and a piano plus smaller things of importance to our lives.

Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/retirement-in-thailand…-too-naive-73292.php#WXY5yXRiM8q44647.99 

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-10-21

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[Thaiwrath]

6 minutes ago, webfact said:

The move to force all elderly expats staying in country to take out health insurance at exorbitant rates

Unless you came on a Non O visa, initially as has been stated on the other 20 or so threads on insurance.

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

Unless you came on a Non O visa, initially as has been stated on the other 20 or so threads on insurance.

Hopefully that will actually be the case starting next month (too bad it even will hit those O-A people), but it's entirely understandable that many people are concerned and worried that sooner or later the enforcement will be greatly expanded. But I have to agree that detail should have been prominently mentioned in the article in the OP. It's one thing to be distressed about something that is actually definitely happening already, and another thing to be worried about a potential change of much less certainty. 

 

Cheers. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Jingthing

[MadMuhammad]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Hopefully that will actually be the case starting next month (too bad it even will hit those O-A people), but it's entirely understandable that many people are concerned and worried that sooner or later the enforcement will be greatly expanded. But I have to agree that detail should have been prominently mentioned in the article in the OP. It's one thing to be distressed about something that is actually definitely happening already, and another thing to be worried about a potential change of much less certainty. 

 

Cheers. 

If it does become a broader implementation it will be extremely unfortunate for those that are over 65 and have got away with winging it but for those that can get insurance and don’t have it it may be a saving grace for many.
Insurance is always considered a waste of money until you need it 

[Jingthing]

Just now, MadMuhammad said:

If it does become a broader implementation it will be extremely unfortunate for those that are over 65 and have got away with winging it but for those that can get insurance and don’t have it it may be a saving grace for many.
Insurance is always considered a waste of money until you need it 

Not really. The super overpriced 400K / 40K government sanctioned policies are a HORRIBLE VALUE and won't go far at all for anything actually serious.

 

Cheers. 

[beachproperty]

Does an additional 400,000 baht to the already 800,000 in the bank....qualify so no need for insurance?

[mokwit]

This is : "No country for old men"

Edited October 21, 2019 by mokwit

[SteveK]

Just look at Kev-in-Thailand. One day he gets a bit of indigestion. Goes to the doctor - oesophageal cancer. No insurance. Has cost him over 1.6 million in treatement so far. He's 58 years old. 400k is not enough.

[Vacuum]

3 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Does an additional 400,000 baht to the already 800,000 in the bank....qualify so no need for insurance?

Start over again with a Non-O. 

[darksidedog]

Especially for those getting on in years some insurance really is a wise idea. Forcing people to take out packages they don't want or need at exorbitant prices though is plain wrong.

[JusticeGB]

Problem is different Immigration Officers will interpret this rule according to brown envelope rules!

[Kelsall]

15 minutes ago, beachproperty said:

Does an additional 400,000 baht to the already 800,000 in the bank....qualify so no need for insurance?

No.

[marqus12]

Retirement in Thailand… Too naive?

 

Good for sadomasochists .

[bdenner]

Here we go again! Hasn't this horse been flogged enough?

[FarFlungFalang]

7 minutes ago, bdenner said:

Here we go again! Hasn't this horse been flogged enough?

The horse obviously isn't dead yet!

[Scot123]

As an ex expat who left Thailand 7 months ago because being uncertain of the future "what next" is no way to live your life especially when your getting older. People forget so quick that in 12 months there was the Embassy letter fiasco caused by Thai immigration, the fall out from that almost on a daily occurrence to basically giving 800,000baht for 6 months to a Thai bank with 400,000baht gift to the bank for life. Any one who thinks this insurance scam will not progress to all long term visa is living in cookoo land. Do you honestly think the next 12 will be smooth sailing let alone 5 or 10 years time which is what retired people need "security". ??? Sad thing is when the next immigration demand/extortion comes along the same people will try to justify it. My family and I brought millions in foreign currency into Thailand and spent it supporting the Thai economy but you can only take so much and we left. Being away from the UK for 9 years living in Thailand  has given me such appreciation of home (the UK). Just had a 350 mile RELAXING and VERY Enjoyable drive in autumn countrysid (not one did anyone try and kill us on the road, no police checkpoints every few miles looking to extort money from you) . Good luck to all who are staying in Thailand but my advice as given to me, "always have an exit plan" and "never invest more than you can afford to losd/walk away from. 

[marko kok prong]

Did Ubonjoe who actually knows about these things not state if you already hols a retirement visa,insurance is not mandatory.

[MadMuhammad]

41 minutes ago, SteveK said:

Just look at Kev-in-Thailand. One day he gets a bit of indigestion. Goes to the doctor - oesophageal cancer. No insurance. Has cost him over 1.6 million in treatement so far. He's 58 years old. 400k is not enough.

 

50 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not really. The super overpriced 400K / 40K government sanctioned policies are a HORRIBLE VALUE and won't go far at all for anything actually serious.

 

Cheers. 

Agreed. It’s a fail safe to cover initial treatment. No one should rely on this bare bones cover. 
DYOR & get covered adequately. Too many people play the victim and Blake everything and everyone but themselves 

[Scot123]

2 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

Did Ubonjoe who actually knows about these things not state if you already hols a retirement visa,insurance is not mandatory.

Lol! Do you honestly think that will be true in the weeks and months that follow plus there is the gray area of interpretation at different immigration offices throughout Thailand. It is the wait and see attitude that wear's people down. When the dust from this finally settles it may cost Thailand so much that its scrapped or becomes another misunderstanding but my guess from experience is it will quickly spread a cross all long term visas including renewals. What will next year bring expats? That is the real question!!!!! 

[Thailand]

The agents will find a way around it if it becomes a cover all of retirement extensions. They are probably already working on it.

 

Simply going to cost more. 

[marko kok prong]

1 minute ago, Scot123 said:

Lol! Do you honestly think that will be true in the weeks and months that follow plus there is the gray area of interpretation at different immigration offices throughout Thailand. It is the wait and see attitude that wear's people down. When the dust from this finally settles it may cost Thailand so much that its scrapped or becomes another misunderstanding but my guess from experience is it will quickly spread a cross all long term visas including renewals. What will next year bring expats? That is the real question!!!!! 

Scot123,i reckon a brown envelope will get you over the line.

[Scot123]

3 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

 

Agreed. It’s a fail safe to cover initial treatment. No one should rely on this bare bones cover. 
DYOR & get covered adequately. Too many people play the victim and Blake everything and everyone but themselves 

Really? How many expats have you ever met who went begging, blaming, crying or running away not paying a hospital bill? I personally never met on in 15 years of living short and long term in Thailand. We are not stupid and all have plans in place for the unforseen. Mine was my motor vehicles, big bikes and the trusty credit card. Yes its a risk but insurance companies make billions of £ on that risk. So in 9 years I had the enjoyment of my motorbikes, the convenience of my SUV and my wife's credit card (never needed to use it for medical). We had several stays in hospital, my wife had first 8 months of her pregnancy at a useless private hospital ending up in a government hospital and a private room. I never once had to sell a vehicle or use the credit card. 

[Sheryl]

Unfortunately this article gives the wrong impression -- that approved insurance is available at age 85 and also that there is an option to self insure with 500k. Neither is currently  the case.

 

"  we will literally be thrown out at the age of 85 because we are unable to pay for health insurance costing B300,000 a year or deposit almost half a million baht in a bank account until we are on our deathbed."

 

There are no approved policies that will insure past the age of 75 and no option for money in the bank in lieu of insurance has been given.

 

There is also the question of whether the police order applies to this couple who are already here  at all, of course; that is still being sorted out. 

 

But I hate to see an opportunity missed to  highlight that what TI issued does not meet what the MoPH announced previously. Sounds like they wrote this either before, or without reading, the Police Order.

[Sheryl]

59 minutes ago, darksidedog said:

Especially for those getting on in years some insurance really is a wise idea. Forcing people to take out packages they don't want or need at exorbitant prices though is plain wrong.

 

So is requiring insurance that is then not available at any price.

[Jingthing]

Does an additional 400,000 baht to the already 800,000 in the bank....qualify so no need for insurance?

No.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Destiny1990]

Unless you’re un healthy young male Indian on a short stay visa expect to struggle with ur visa requirements. 

[Scot123]

15 minutes ago, Thailand said:

The agents will find a way around it if it becomes a cover all of retirement extensions. They are probably already working on it.

 

Simply going to cost more. 

Using agents is a really big gamble, ask any diving instructor or dive master who used the agent on Kow Tow in 2004 (I think). One friend ended up in prison and banned from Thailand for something stupid like 100 years and scores had to destroy their passports and rush off to their embassies for replacements. The agent who was forging the stamps was sitting in his shop with the sign still high as if nothing had happened..... Bottom line using agents is against the law and for me the thought of spending one night in a thai prison kept me away from all grey area's... 

[marko kok prong]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unfortunately this article gives the wrong impression -- that approved insurance is available at age 85 and also that there is an option to self insure with 500k. Neither is currently  the case.

 

"  we will literally be thrown out at the age of 85 because we are unable to pay for health insurance costing B300,000 a year or deposit almost half a million baht in a bank account until we are on our deathbed."

 

There are no approved policies that will insure past the age of 75 and no option for money in the bank in lieu of insurance has been given.

 

There is also the question of whether the police order applies to this couple who are already here  at all, of course; that is still being sorted out. 

 

But I hate to see an opportunity missed to  highlight that what TI issued does not meet what the MoPH announced previously. Sounds like they wrote this either before, or without reading, the Police Order.

Sheryl,i have a few mil in the bank,so would that make me okay,it's all very confusing,i mean i can cover all med expenses as i have more overseas i am starting to get the feeling they just don't want us here,the tm30,stuff now this,i mean i am 55 do you think i should do something now re insurance?

[Is this real]

I've asked this question for 10 years.  Never gotten an answer.

 

If you have B800k in the bank, only in your name, and you die, what happens to it?

 

If it is in your will, does it all actually go to the beneficiary?  Do you know cases, for sure, where this has happened?

 

In 10 years, I've never heard of anyone getting it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 minutes ago, marko kok prong said:

Sheryl,i have a few mil in the bank,so would that make me okay,it's all very confusing,i mean i can cover all med expenses as i have more overseas i am starting to get the feeling they just don't want us here,the tm30,stuff now this,i mean i am 55 do you think i should do something now re insurance?

 

For now, the new Immigration rule only applies to people with O-A visas, and possibly/probably those on extensions of stay that originated with O-A visas...

 

Right now, there's no provision that's been publicly aired thus far that would allow anyone to buy their way out of the insurance requirement thru bank deposits and such.