Police probe Phuket dive tour deaths of South Korean tourist, Thai instructor

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Police probe Phuket dive tour deaths of South Korean tourist, Thai instructor

By The Phuket News

 

The bodies of South Korean tourist Sunghyun Cho, 37, and Thai dive instructor Pongsathorn Madnui, 34, were taken to Vachira Phuket Hospital last Saturday (Oct 19). Photo: Eakkapop Thongtub

 

PHUKET: Police have yet to reveal any details about the circumstances leading to the death of a South Korean tourist who drowned while on a dive tour at Koh Racha Ya, south of Phuket, last Saturday (Oct 19).

 

Sunghyun Cho, 37, was on a dive tour to see coral reefs at Ao Lah, the northernmost bay on the east side of the island, when he began moving frantically as if experiencing breathing difficulties, according to initial reports.

 

Pongsathorn Madnui, the 34-year-old Thai dive instructor leading Mr Cho on his dive, went to Mr Cho’s assistance, but both men “collapsed” before reaching the surface.

Read more at https://www.thephuketnews.com/police-probe-phuket-dive-tour-deaths-of-south-korean-tourist-thai-instructor-73349.php#4ov7HqOmtdb25RhO.99 

 

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2019-10-24

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[HarrySeaman]

Epic fails!

 

Failure to make sure tanks were filled with clean filtered air.  Carbon monoxide poisoning is a common problem with gasoline powered filling gear used by improperly trained people.  If going on a dive with provided air always arrive early and ask to be show their tank filling station.  Watch out for exhaust pipes that are too close to the air intake and for a lack of filters.

 

Failure by the diver to make sure dive tanks were properly filled and all dive equipment was working properly before the dive.  This is so basic that doing the checks should be automatic.

 

Failure to abort the dive at the slightest indication of a problem.  Duh!

 

Failed to know how to surface without working scuba gear, a basic skill drilled into a diver in any well taught introductory diving course (e.g. PADI Open Water).

Edited October 24, 2019 by HarrySeaman

[stevenl]

OK, some inside information.

 

The Thai instructor was not an instructor. Customer panicked, either due to him losing the second stage of his regulator or some other reason leading to him losing it, he tried to take the second stage of the 'instructor', both panicked and didn't know what to do, with tragic consequences.

 

This was not a standard divetrip but a snorkeling/relax trip, where diving and other activities are upsold.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, HarrySeaman said:

Failure to make sure tanks were filled with clean filtered air.  Carbon monoxide poisoning is a common problem with gasoline powered filling gear used by improperly trained people.

 

 

somchai; you mean we cannot fill tanks directly from pickup exhaust pipe ???

 

 

when i go snorkeling i strap on a dive knife because even getting tangled in fishing line or plastic is a nonsensical way to die

[Scot123]

1 hour ago, HarrySeaman said:

Epic fails!

 

Failure to make sure tanks were filled with clean filtered air.  Carbon monoxide poisoning is a common problem with gasoline powered filling gear used by improperly trained people.  If going on a dive with provided air always arrive early and ask to be show their tank filling station.  Watch out for exhaust pipes that are too close to the air intake and for a lack of filters.

 

Failure by the diver to make sure dive tanks were properly filled and all dive equipment was working properly before the dive.  This is so basic that doing the checks should be automatic.

 

Failure to abort the dive at the slightest indication of a problem.  Duh!

 

Failed to know how to surface without working scuba gear, a basic skill drilled into a diver in any well taught introductory diving course (e.g. PADI Open Water).

Wait and see. Don't make guesses and spout them as facts. If wrong it makes you look stupid. There are so many things that can go wrong. First I have taken a dive out and a student managed to empty a full tank in less than 5 min. He was very lucky as I got to him at great risk to myself (I had to ascend really fast and quick to get to him). I also remember a young newly qualified Dive Master who after his first dive decided to go snorkeling/skin diving during the break and his body was never found. I just hope that the instructor did everything by the book and had the correct instructor insurance cover (oh I only ever new one Thai diving instructor and he was a very professional and competent instructor I would trust). 

[CNXexpat]

Not a good week for South Koreans in Thailand. One was stabbed 17 times in Pattaya, one died at a diving tour.

[Scot123]

So many experts on here it's quite amazing. Scuba diving is very safe and very few people die doing it. When I was an instructor on Kow Tow (over 300 dives in the gulf of Thailand) the number one killer was motorbikes then people saying they could swim who couldn't (several Japanese drowned on this one), falling coconut deaths and injuries. The big killer in the water was and is snorkeling/skin diving (saturated blood with co2 and you pass-out and normally a few inches from the surface). While bad air has caused deaths this is rare due to the fact the first lesson/procedure you are taught after putting your gear on is to sniff and taste your air plus look at your tank gage). The tank guy most likely fills thousands of tanks a year, their set up is checked by every school who uses them but unseen brocken gasket do happen causing contamination but that is very quickly picked up with sniff and taste. Please wait and see before tarnishing people. 

[J Town]

I can say with absolute authority that not ONE of these dive accident stories have ever been completely factually correct. Too much conjecture, too much armchair quarterbacking with incomplete information, then too many people arguing over tangential issues.

 

I would recommend let the pro's handle the situation (if they can ever find them, the complete article isn't convincing that they will). RIP diver and condolences to the family and friends.

[stevenl]

33 minutes ago, J Town said:

I can say with absolute authority that not ONE of these dive accident stories have ever been completely factually correct. Too much conjecture, too much armchair quarterbacking with incomplete information, then too many people arguing over tangential issues.

 

I would recommend let the pro's handle the situation (if they can ever find them, the complete article isn't convincing that they will). RIP diver and condolences to the family and friends.

See my earlier post for what happened.

[J Town]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

See my earlier post for what happened.

I saw your post. What you wrote is not what an instructor would write, so armchair quarterbacking unless you were there.

[Knocker33]

1 hour ago, CNXexpat said:

Not a good week for South Koreans in Thailand. One was stabbed 17 times in Pattaya, one died at a diving tour.

Must be giving the Chinese a break this week 

[richard_smith237]

26 minutes ago, J Town said:

30 minutes ago, stevenl said:

See my earlier post for what happened.

I saw your post. What you wrote is not what an instructor would write, so armchair quarterbacking unless you were there.

 

stevenl never wrote that he was an instructor, nor has be implied or pretended that he is. 

He has, however, relayed some 'inside' information which is significantly better than 'armchair quaterbacking'.

 

I'm not sure why you want to ignore information from a forum member who has repeatedly proved himself balanced and unbiased in this and previous threads. 

[J Town]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

stevenl never wrote that he was an instructor, nor has be implied or pretended that he is. 

He has, however, relayed some 'inside' information which is significantly better than 'armchair quarterbacking'.

 

I'm not sure why you want to ignore information from a forum member who has repeatedly proved himself balanced and unbiased in this and previous threads. 

Because my main premise is that we shouldn't write about things of which we don't have firsthand knowledge. These are such highly poignant events. None of us really know what happened. I've personally been involved in diving deaths and the news stories never reflected what we who were there saw. I guess I'm just saying let's not guess, let's not speculate, let's just wish the family and friends solace.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by J Town

[stevenl]

45 minutes ago, J Town said:

I saw your post. What you wrote is not what an instructor would write, so armchair quarterbacking unless you were there.

Ok, please explain to me what an instructor would write differently.

[J Town]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Ok, please explain to me what an instructor would write differently.

If you really want, I'll send you a pm.

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, J Town said:

If you really want, I'll send you a pm.

Yes please, looking forward to it.

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

stevenl never wrote that he was an instructor, nor has be implied or pretended that he is. 

He has, however, relayed some 'inside' information which is significantly better than 'armchair quaterbacking'.

 

I'm not sure why you want to ignore information from a forum member who has repeatedly proved himself balanced and unbiased in this and previous threads. 

For your information, I am an instructor, working here on Phuket, know the instructors and talked to his direct colleagues.

It happened as I said.

[owenm]

Does no one in Thailand learn CPR and use of a defibrillator? This basic training should be compulsory on all boats taking out divers and those snorkeling. For this unfortunate young South Korean and his Thai instructor to both die in only 7m water depth is inexcusable.

 

What, if any first aid was attempted when the two were back on board the boat? Zilch I would expect. Then the time going to shore and ambulance trying to resuscitate them possibly an hour later. Of course they would have been deceased at that stage. 

 

Another unfortunate and inexcusable senseless tragedy. And to arrive home in a coffin at such a young age is another example of the dangers in Thailand. RIP to you both. 

[stevenl]

12 minutes ago, owenm said:

Does no one in Thailand learn CPR and use of a defibrillator? This basic training should be compulsory on all boats taking out divers and those snorkeling. For this unfortunate young South Korean and his Thai instructor to both die in only 7m water depth is inexcusable.

 

What, if any first aid was attempted when the two were back on board the boat? Zilch I would expect. Then the time going to shore and ambulance trying to resuscitate them possibly an hour later. Of course they would have been deceased at that stage. 

 

Another unfortunate and inexcusable senseless tragedy. And to arrive home in a coffin at such a young age is another example of the dangers in Thailand. RIP to you both. 

You're wrong, CPR was attempted.

[hotchilli]

16 hours ago, stevenl said:

OK, some inside information.

 

The Thai instructor was not an instructor. Customer panicked, either due to him losing the second stage of his regulator or some other reason leading to him losing it, he tried to take the second stage of the 'instructor', both panicked and didn't know what to do, with tragic consequences.

 

This was not a standard divetrip but a snorkeling/relax trip, where diving and other activities are upsold.

If this is the case then the owner should be up for manslaughter !

[Classic Ray]

Sad admission in a country with such a large tourist industry and so many dive schools/tour companies that the Forensic Police have no one qualified to examine the equipment. This probably means also that there is no licensing or inspection scheme for these companies to encourage them to properly maintain the equipment.

 

i was taught in a British run school in Koh Samui where I didn’t even get in the sea for three days until I completed my pool and classroom training. 
 

Maybe that’s why I am alive and these two unfortunates are dead.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Classic Ray said:

Sad admission in a country with such a large tourist industry and so many dive schools/tour companies that the Forensic Police have no one qualified to examine the equipment. This probably means also that there is no licensing or inspection scheme for these companies to encourage them to properly maintain the equipment.

 

i was taught in a British run school in Koh Samui where I didn’t even get in the sea for three days until I completed my pool and classroom training. 
 

Maybe that’s why I am alive and these two unfortunates are dead.

"Sad admission in a country with such a large tourist industry and so many dive schools/tour companies that the Forensic Police have no one qualified to examine the equipment. "

Yes, especially with many, many service centers and importers of diving gear around.

"This probably means also that there is no licensing or inspection scheme for these companies to encourage them to properly maintain the equipment."

Before the bi-annual renewal of the tourist license all companies have to have a stamp of approval from one of the servicing companies.

[Wiesel]

who of you have ever been part of real UW-Panic-Situation??

Edited October 25, 2019 by Wiesel

[stevenl]

15 minutes ago, Wiesel said:

who of you have ever been part of real UW-Panic-Situation??

I have had people spit out regulator and things like that. Why?

[Vacuum]

Humans have lungs, fish don't that's the reason they can live under the water.

[Wiesel]

I have had people spit out regulator and things like that. Why?

Because there are many comments from people they never have been or even have seen real panic. ????

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Wiesel said:

I have had people spit out regulator and things like that. Why?

Because there are many comments from people they never have been or even have seen real panic. ????

Do this long enough and you'll see it all. Anticipation is the key, divers tend to telegraph what they're going to do. And be prepared for when they don't.

[HarrySeaman]

On 10/24/2019 at 2:12 PM, stevenl said:

OK, some inside information.

 

The Thai instructor was not an instructor. Customer panicked, either due to him losing the second stage of his regulator or some other reason leading to him losing it, he tried to take the second stage of the 'instructor', both panicked and didn't know what to do, with tragic consequences.

 

This was not a standard divetrip but a snorkeling/relax trip, where diving and other activities are upsold.

If this is true, and I can believe it, then the customer was improperly trained and the less said about the non-instructor the better.

 

Panic is something that can hit anyone, but the more training and dives you have the less likely you are going to panic.   Spitting out the regulator mouth piece is a common sign of panic. 

 

One of my regular cavern & cave diving buddies in Florida was the first dive instructor in Central Florida.  As well as many others he taught the Florida State Police divers as well as some State Park Rangers how to dive.  Before he trained the State Police divers one of his jobs was recovering the bodies of cave divers who went beyond their capabilities.  Most of the cave divers he recovered had plenty of air in their tanks but they had spit out their mouth pieces in panic when they lost their lights or orientation.

 

I have run into one day "resort certified" divers before.  Barely trained enough to know how to put on their gear.  After one dive in the Florida Keys with such a poorly trained diver I told the certified dive master that I wouldn't dive with that person again because he had no idea about proper procedures and was dangerous to both himself and his dive buddy.  I have no idea why but the dive master let that person go on a second dive, I wouldn't have.

 

I wouldn't trust any diver that gets dive a resort dive certificate in one day.  It takes at least three days, along with concentrated home study, to get a PADI Open water certification, and that is really too short a period of time to absorb all that you need to know.  It is much better to stretch the instructions out over several weeks of studying the text book and testing with paper and pen, a test in a pool of your ability to swim and float, and finally a day or two of open water testing.

 

As someone else said, humans have lungs, not gills.  Not knowing what to do when equipment fails or if you go beyond your training is a quick way to die when scuba diving.  Know what you are doing and it is one of the most amazing experiences you can ever have.

[stevenl]

"I have run into one day "resort certified" divers before. "

Strange, since a one day certification course doesn't exist.

 

" It is much better to stretch the instructions out over several weeks of studying the text book and testing with paper and pen, a test in a pool of your ability to swim and float, and finally a day or two of open water testing. "

Opinions on what is best vary greatly, and IMO depend mostly on the diver. For some it works best to spread it out, for others doing it consecutive works best. These days nearly all studying is done at home pre course BTW.

 

" the customer was improperly trained "

The customer was not trained at all, he was doing a discover scuba diving, or what you call a 'one day resort certification'. This is an experience under close supervision, not a certification course.

Edited October 26, 2019 by stevenl

[Scot123]

3 hours ago, HarrySeaman said:

If this is true, and I can believe it, then the customer was improperly trained and the less said about the non-instructor the better.

 

Panic is something that can hit anyone, but the more training and dives you have the less likely you are going to panic.   Spitting out the regulator mouth piece is a common sign of panic. 

 

One of my regular cavern & cave diving buddies in Florida was the first dive instructor in Central Florida.  As well as many others he taught the Florida State Police divers as well as some State Park Rangers how to dive.  Before he trained the State Police divers one of his jobs was recovering the bodies of cave divers who went beyond their capabilities.  Most of the cave divers he recovered had plenty of air in their tanks but they had spit out their mouth pieces in panic when they lost their lights or orientation.

 

I have run into one day "resort certified" divers before.  Barely trained enough to know how to put on their gear.  After one dive in the Florida Keys with such a poorly trained diver I told the certified dive master that I wouldn't dive with that person again because he had no idea about proper procedures and was dangerous to both himself and his dive buddy.  I have no idea why but the dive master let that person go on a second dive, I wouldn't have.

 

I wouldn't trust any diver that gets dive a resort dive certificate in one day.  It takes at least three days, along with concentrated home study, to get a PADI Open water certification, and that is really too short a period of time to absorb all that you need to know.  It is much better to stretch the instructions out over several weeks of studying the text book and testing with paper and pen, a test in a pool of your ability to swim and float, and finally a day or two of open water testing.

 

As someone else said, humans have lungs, not gills.  Not knowing what to do when equipment fails or if you go beyond your training is a quick way to die when scuba diving.  Know what you are doing and it is one of the most amazing experiences you can ever have.

Interesting read but you are wrong about resort one day dive being a certified qualification but an introduction to scuba which I believe can be carried out in a pool and even by a DM (I could be wrong been a long time since I was instructor 2006). Open Water is a 3 day course. I remember I had one nice girl who wanted so much to dive with her boyfriend. I spent one on one with her, her biggest issue was the simplest task putting her head underwater on her all of her dives I one one one with her literally holding her hand. Her last dive she did with her boyfriend as I followed very close next to her. She completed the course but I did not certify her.