In my opinion, if someone becomes aggressive you restrain them, not engage in violence. If he had an issue with the bill he should have remained on site and waited for the authorities to arrive.

Becoming violent is never the right response and will elicit the same from untrained people. The correct response should have been to restrain him and prohibit him from leaving the premises until the authorities arrived, not allow him to leave and then engage in a street brawl ! which ultimately led to the complications some time later and death.

Needless pointless death from a situation that should never have been allowed to escalate. There is NO singular fault, both are equally to blame for how it evolved and sadly ended. (IMHO)

Mandarin GoGo has a history of these types of problems with aggressive security staff and nothing is done by local authorities. Must be Connected?

In fact over aggressive security staff has been a problem in Pattaya for decades and nothing is ever done by local authroities.

This business model defies logic, give a customer copious amounts of alcohol until the person is really drunk, an/or incapacitated, then if the person questions the bill which may be inflated, or becomes indignant due to drunkenness, gather a group and beat the <deleted> out of the drunken defenseless person because they are an easy target, and an ego trip for the punk ass security staff hitting a defenseless person instead of calling the police to sort out the problem like they should do.

19 hours ago, donnacha said:

That he tried calling 911 just minutes before the attack suggests that he was the victim of a billing scam. As certain parts of their tourism industry collapse, desperate bars seem to be resorting to this stuff more frequently, and asking for evermore ridiculous amounts.

These thugs are a tiny minority that ruin it for the vast majority of decent people. Sadly, in Thailand, the entire society is structured along those lines too.

I no longer expect any common sense from the authorities in Thailand, but a smart country that did not take its tourism industry for granted would crack down hard on this stuff. Each of these reports in the victims' home countries sends a deeply negative message about Thailand, reversing millions of dollars of "Amazing Thailand" marketing. Look at that photo, he looks like a decent, happily married guy and is a veteran to boot. This story, including the shameful Thai court verdict, will run in almost every American newspaper and news channel, ten of millions of people will hear about this. These incidents are expensive for Thailand.

On entry, I would give every tourist a welcome card containing 24hr emergency numbers manned by competent English / Mandarin / Korean speakers. Hell, I would even offer an "Emergency Button" app that would instantly send their location to the local police.


 

Yeah tourists should go somewhere safe like Tijuana, or Cancun, maybe Bulgaria or hey any large british town centre on a Friday or saturday night.

For a place that is so unsafe that so many have VOLUNTARILY moved to the denigration and criticism by these 'guests' is bewildering.

The fogey brigade believe that by buying a house and living cheaply in a developing country that they are deserving of special treatment, because they are white round eyes.

Nouveau colonialists 

ONCE AGAIN - Do not get personal in your remarks/responses., this is your LAST warning, holidays will now be issued without any further warning.

26 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

According to you mate. ???? You're gonna say Singapore isn't much better than Thailand next. Singapore's and Malaysia's reputations are far less tarnished than Thailand's in every area that counts.

 

For example, Malaysia's corruption ranking is 52 out 180, Thailand's was 102 - until recently it was higher, on the OECD listings for developing nations and transparency.org - a UN backed research group that conduct this global poll. Their court system is a mix of common-law and civil law and they have an actual functioning judiciary. The Police I won't comment on, but you couldn't really get any worse than the joke RTP. And um, Malaysia more racist than Thailand!!! Dream on mate, but please do keep posting, you're a laugh a minute.

Well you know what you should do if it is so bad and you despise the people and the country so much.

Remaining in Thailand when you feel that way just reeks of hypocrisy

A couple of inflammatory posts trying to pick a fight with another member have been removed.

2 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

When you said 'I "go" there too' I thought you probably didn't live there. Anyway, not everyone in Pattaya is the same I'm sure, there's gotta be some decent people knocking about!

I just go on holidays a few times a year. After my 80 - 90 days I've had enough.

 

But I am always wary of something like this happening to myself as I've witnessed a couple of incidents like this but without such terrible consequences. It should always be in the back of your mind.

I never drink more than 2 beers when I'm out in a place like this. Never get too drunk in Pattaya, you could end up getting robbed or dead.   Yes he died because he hit his head on the ground after an attack, but it could have been easily prevented. 

49 minutes ago, robblok said:

So he first attacks the bouncers and then tries to go away. I certainly don't think the bouncers are innocent but this guy was part of the problem.

We don't quite agree.

If we have to believe the report, the victim tried to call the 911.

Troublemakers normally don't do that, i can speculate that he got a padded bill, and didn't like to be extorted.

Then the victim leaves, followed closely by 2 guys we see in the video.

Then he turns and punch the air, then 2 guys attack him at the same time, one punch (..knuckleduster ?) hit him.

Surely the victim was part of the problem, he should have never entered that go-go bar.

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

If we have to believe the report, the victim tried to call the 911.

Troublemakers normally don't do that, i can speculate that he got a padded bill, and didn't like to be extorted.

Then the victim leaves, followed closely by 2 guys we see in the video.

I agree, but he should have never left the bar, he should have waited for the police, he could have asked for the tourist police to assist him. they work all night.  Or just pay the bill and get away from there. 

 

In civilized countries they call the police  

52 minutes ago, KenKadz said:

Mandarin GoGo has a history of these types of problems with aggressive security staff and nothing is done by local authorities. Must be Connected?

In fact over aggressive security staff has been a problem in Pattaya for decades and nothing is ever done by local authroities.

This business model defies logic, give a customer copious amounts of alcohol until the person is really drunk, an/or incapacitated, then if the person questions the bill which may be inflated, or becomes indignant due to drunkenness, gather a group and beat the <deleted> out of the drunken defenseless person because they are an easy target, and an ego trip for the punk ass security staff hitting a defenseless person instead of calling the police to sort out the problem like they should do.

Well said.

 

That sums some of Pattaya's Walking St gogo bars and night clubs up in a nutshell.

 

The French couples who were beaten up by bouncers from What's U and the kicking received by a customer from Insomnia bouncers are just two incidents that come to mind. That's just the ones we hear about!

 

You hardly see any Westerners in Walking Street any more and even fewer in the GGBs. Small wonder!

 

The poor bouncers must be getting frustrated.

 

 

1 minute ago, balo said:

I agree, but he should have never left the bar, he should have waited for the police, he could have asked for the tourist police to assist him. they work all night.  Or just pay the bill and get away from there. 

 

True what you say, yet we don't know the full story, and it always feels a bit unfair to criticise the dead.

If he did a mistake or 2, he has already paid the ultimate price.

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

'Ok typical Thai. To hit back. True. Sure.'

With the odds at 2+ against one - yes, it's well known to be the case here, especially when the victim is a foreigner. 

Not especially foreigner. If Thais make trouble want to fight, not pay bill, same thing happen.

 

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'Typical security.' - maybe in Pattaya. Not the 'typical' reaction of proper doormen in many developed nations, let me assure you. 

I not understand why you Typical guys try to lie about your country when so easy just check google and see hundred video show you lie. 

 

here is two.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1602512/Bouncer-attacks-man-outside-Ink-nightclub-Nottingham.html

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/factory-attack-bouncers-two-men-15496522

 

 

I lazy to post the other 98. 

Thank you “assure” me. Sure.

 

 

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'Typical drunk Brit' - yeh, us Brits don't have a great rep in this regard, no worse than Thais though I would say. 

You would say. Most not agree. Can google. Have a lot drunk Brit woman do same also. Wow. Take a look. Scary.

 

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'

'Typical guy not want to pay bill.' - again more conjecture, you don't know this to be the case. It's possible he was doing a runner, I'd counter that it is just as likely that he was being fleeced by the bar-owners, a common trope in that <deleted> hole town, also possible he left without knowing he hadn't paid. 

Yes, I said same in my post. 

But you ignore.

Typical

 

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'Typical accident with street fight, late night with to much alcohol. Fall. Hit the head on cement.' - Not by any means unique to Thailand, happens everywhere, there is scum everywhere. The initial (and unfair) attack is what is being condemned - the very poor way in which it was handled. Bar staff should even in Thailand be trained to deal with such situations and not turn it into a street fight, that's the point.

Like the 2 link above right? 

And the other 98 street fight link video you say never happen in your country.

 

 

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'Typical to say “typical Thai” on TVF.' - Such circumstances are I'm afraid typical here, I wouldn't state so if it weren't the case. Whether you believe me or not is your choice.

I might call you a “typical” farang always want to argue. With no fact. But would be offend for the farang who not same you. So I not. Would be stupid.

 

6 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

'The court can not say it murder. Because he not dead when court case.' They could have convicted the 2 guys of GBH and the one who made contact with him with manslaughter, but hey, Thailand doesn't really have a court system or functioning judiciary, let's not pretend otherwise, you'd only make yourself look foolish if you tried.

 

I think you foolish. How can judge say man slaughter if the guy not dead yet????????

 

 

I feel sorry for wife of Mike. Really. She lose her husband because he go the sex tourist bar in Pattaya.

She have grief, anger and embarrassment sure. Be difficult for her. Terrible feeling. Really.

19 hours ago, sanemax said:

I think that you will find that bouncers in all countries can behave violently , not just Thailand  

Yeah but violent bouncers in other countries go to jail after a murder !

Killed because the Thais tried over billing him in mandarin agogo bar Pattaya ..... that’s why he left,he also tried calling the tourist police who didn’t turn up and sort the problem out. The gentleman who was killed owned the plan cafe in Morgan’s arcade Cardiff with his wife Veronica. A ex serviceman who served in the gulf war - this mindless crime happened in may last year and he was eventually flown home to the uk before dying from brain injury on March the 24th this year. R.I.P Mike 

After reading 28 pages of this thread it seems clear to me that poor choices were made by both parties causing the holes in the swiss cheese to line up allowing the devastating outcome to slip through as they taught us in the countless mining industry safety induction I sat through the next thing they taught us was to avoid trying to lay blame but to review why the holes lined up and to put in preventative measures to avoid a repeat occurrence.Such measures have already been suggested like the strict regulation and training of door staff and security.There I go again pissing into cyclonic winds again.

Just now, Steve Vincent said:

Killed because the Thais tried over billing him in mandarin agogo bar Pattaya ..... that’s why he left,he also tried calling the tourist police who didn’t turn up and sort the problem out. The gentleman who was killed owned the plan cafe in Morgan’s arcade Cardiff with his wife Veronica. A ex serviceman who served in the gulf war - this mindless crime happened in may last year and he was eventually flown home to the uk before dying from brain injury on March the 24th this year. R.I.P Mike 

Why didn't he just pay the bill?

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Why didn't he just pay the bill?

Yes..

 

And what the heck has him being a war veteran got to do with anything, does that make his death any worse than anyone else in the same situation?  

 

 

8 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

There I go again pissing into cyclonic winds again.

Lol, well the good thing about these threads, is that some newbie can learn something useful.

After being myself close to troubles, i learned a few things... Never get too drunk, never argue when drunk, never drink in go-go bars, never go to Pattaya again, etc. etc.

10 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Yes..

 

And what the heck has him being a war veteran got to do with anything, does that make his death any worse than anyone else in the same situation?  

 

 

Could be the reason he didn't pay the bill and tried to take the bouncer's head off.

50 minutes ago, balo said:

I agree, but he should have never left the bar, he should have waited for the police, he could have asked for the tourist police to assist him. they work all night.  Or just pay the bill and get away from there. 

 

Easy to say if you are a long term resident and know about the constant scams and bullying

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Never get too drunk, never argue when drunk, never drink in go-go bars, never go to Pattaya again,

Yes, you're nearly there. let me help you:

 

Do go to Pattaya, do drink in gogo bars but never get too drunk and never argue when drunk. You'll be fine. Oh, and pay your tab.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Easy to say if you are a long term resident and know about the constant scams and bullying

I agree, he was a tourist staying only for a few weeks. 

But I would have never ended up in the same situation. People are different. It doesn't make me a better person though, I understand he is a war hero and all that. 
 

18 hours ago, BestB said:

All it takes is an unlucky punch or an unlucky fall and life is over. This was a perfect example of that.

 

Yes bouncer hitting the guy was wrong,but according to OP guy threw the first punch but missed.

 

Bouncer did not intent to kill him, as it was only 1 punch, not a combination, plus kicks and all the rest.

 

Yes, perhaps if courts knew guy had passed away, verdict would have been different, but as it stood during trial, there was no intent to kill or even to cause grievous  bodily harm, some may argue was in self defense.

 

I have worked on the doors in my younger years, and owned a security company, It is easy to make judgments from the other side, but if you on the job, you would be surprised what drunk people do and life as a bouncer is not all that safe. and no you can not always restrain someone or hold them up, its not movies but real life.

 

I have been stabbed, shot, king hit, spat at, had syringes pulled(most likely infected), sometimes you just reach to protect yourself, not react to kill or even think one punch can kill.

 

I have seen similar scenario, a pub fight, 2 guys attacked 1 kid, all three were barely 18, the victim was just being bullied, they king hit him, he fell down and hit his head on the brick, i saw it from the distance and rushed over.

 

Immediately called ambulance. Do not know what happened, but about 2 months later, had a visit from his parents, thanking me for saving his life, as doctors advised if kid was brought in 10 mins later, he would not have made it.

 

Sadly however, something was damaged and kid was no longer normal. His future was taken away from him, he was going to study law, but no more.

 

The 2 kids that hit him were charged, but similar to this case, just a fine for fighting as there was no intent to kill or cause serious harm.an unlucky fall.

Thanks for your life story, getting back to this case the bouncer was was out of over the top violent. They love it !

5 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Yes, you're nearly there. let me help you:

 

Do go to Pattaya, do drink in gogo bars but never get too drunk and never argue when drunk. You'll be fine. Oh, and pay your tab.

 

 

Thanks, i know what kind of atmosphere i can get in Pattaya and go-go bars, been there, done that, it's just that i know i can get a better experience doing other things.

Not talking about morals, just saying ????

1 minute ago, mauGR1 said:

Thanks, i know what kind of atmosphere i can get in Pattaya and go-go bars, been there, done that, it's just that i know i can get a better experience doing other things.

Not talking about morals, just saying ????

I sometimes visit temples too.

40 minutes ago, Yinn said:

 

 

 

I feel sorry for wife of Mike. Really. She lose her husband because he go the sex tourist bar in Pattaya.

 

Got sweet fa to do with why he died. 
Quit trying to put down a dead man who was respected and did something with his life as opposed to a couple of low life thugs who have done <deleted> all apart from contributing to the ending of someone’s else’s life 
 

10 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Lol, well the good thing about these threads, is that some newbie can learn something useful.

After being myself close to troubles, i learned a few things... Never get too drunk, never argue when drunk, never drink in go-go bars, never go to Pattaya again, etc. etc.

I've lost count of the times I've been totally legless and managed to get home unscathed and am forever grateful the holes didn't line up for me especially whilst travelling alone and recall the saying "there but for the grace of god go I" or something.Another thing in my favour when frequenting these places of ill repute was that I was with my wife and her bar girl friends and therefore usually protected by the security by ringing the bell and making sure everyone had a good time which to me was more important the a few thousand baht.

 It's a terrible thing that occurred and I can find no way to justify the death of this bloke and as for intent I would have thought that to be irrelevant as it wasn't bad luck that threw the punch which was thrown to inflict harm and was a poor choice.

20 hours ago, sanemax said:

No need for Thai bashing , bouncers behave violently in every country , 

Here we go with the.."it happens in every country" comeback.

 

Last time I checked this was a Thai related forum, so forget what happens in other countries, besides the one we are in, as this could be any of us one day.