O/A visa and insurance experience today

[pookondee]

7 hours ago, jackdd said:

 

In 2019 this person entered Thailand 3 times

Entered on 21/2/2019 with a multi entry tourist visa
Left Thailand on 5/4/2019
He stayed in Thailand for 2 months

 

(Info added by me: 2 months out of Thailand)

 

Entered on 20/6/2019 with a tourist visa (they don't write which type)
He made a border run at Phu Nam Ron crossing and got a 30 day visa exempt. (Exact dates, and possible extensions are not mentioned)
Left Thailand on 13/10/2019
He stayed in Thailand for 4 months.

 

(Info added by me: 1 month out of Thailand)

 

Entered on 15/11/2019 with a tourist visa (they don't write which type)
The foreigner indicated that he will stay for 3 months.
Because of his history they assume he wants to stay in Thailand continuously and he might work in Thailand, he does not enter Thailand for tourism.
Thus he will be denied under Immigration Act sections 12(2) and (3)

 

I presume what you have written is a translation of the Thai text?

 with those dates and the vague mentions of visas used?

 

-So..it seems he spent time in Thailand in 2018, with whatever visa, that expired around 5/4/2019.

 

-Then had another stay (maybe) VE.

 

-Then attempted entering on the METV, three days ago

on 15/11/19?

after being out 4 months, having got an METV in London?

and this is when the denial/ detention comes into it.

???

 

So obviously, we dont know his history before 2018, and most likely a long string of VEs with very little time out of Thailand..

 

Then, on this occasion he tells the IOs he only wants to stay 3 months, which they assume is a lie, based on his history and the fact he has a METV.

 

Further, they can see he has spent more time in Thailand than out over X years,

so they wonder how he can support himself and  (right or wrongly) assume he is working.

 

 

This is exactly why some people take these reports with a grain of salt, when not getting the full story as it is above..

 

Most of the guys post about being locked up, but yet leave out a lot of the background..

 

Resulting, a casual tourist who uses a METV to stay 6-8 months every 1-2 years reading these denial stories,

 panicking they to will get thrown in detention centre and deported next time they come.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by pookondee

[lkv]

48 minutes ago, pookondee said:

So possibly a casual tourist who uses a METV to stay 6-8 months every 1-2 years

will be reading this stuff,

 panicking that they will get thrown in detention centre and deported next time they come.

 

 

 

Permissions of stay

 

1. Visa exempt 30 days

2. Tourist visa (SETV or METV) 60 days

3. Non Immigrant O visa 90 days

4. Extension of stay 12 months

5. Non O-A 12 months.

 

So, if John wants to stay 9 months, the solution should be number 3+4 or number 5, not number 1 or number 2 repeatedly with visa runs.

 

That's what immigration defines as "the correct visa for the duration of your stay". When you don't have to do visa runs and you can stay continually for that intended stay.

 

In practice, John can also stay up to 9 months stretching a METV, and doing visa runs, but the more he does it, the more it becomes a lottery.

Edited November 17, 2019 by lkv

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, pookondee said:

Resulting, a casual tourist who uses a METV to stay 6-8 months every 1-2 years reading these denial stories,

 panicking they to will get thrown in detention centre and deported next time they come.

It shows that he was denied entry with a METV (that's what he wrote on Facebook, the police report doesn't mention the type of tourist visa), after having spent about 5.5 months (less than 180 days) in 2019 in Thailand. This also means that he just proved money in a bank, and that he is employed or has a business in Canada, when he applied for the METV.

So somebody with a METV might be concerned that he may not be let into Thailand on his last entry, at which point he spent nearly 6 months in Thailand.

But what i noticed when looking at his Facebook picture: He is not white (but has a Canadian passport though), and we know how racist Thais can be, so this might have played a role.

Edited November 18, 2019 by jackdd

[Langsuan Man]

21 hours ago, Max69xl said:

"Since most overseas Embassies and Consulates, as reported above, will no longer issue an O based upon retirement"

Which embassies/consulates overseas don't issue 90 days Non-Immigrant O? 

Just because you can't get in in the US, doesn't mean you can't get in Europe. 

You seem a bit paranoid about about Thailand and Immigration rules. 

No,  I am paranoid about having to maintain three insurance policies due to the Thai governments money grab with this mandatory THAI insurance requirement.  The fact that I have obtained O-A's over the last 14 years is proof that I follow the rules and have been fully insured during that time.  I pay the US government $250 a month for Medicare Part B and $250 a month for Blue Cross / Blue Shield and yes, I am paranoid, about wasting even more money on insurance that does me no good whatsoever other than making more money for a greedy Thai insurance companies in league with a monopolistic encouraging Thai Cabinet

 

Since you seem to be such an expert on paranoia and immigration rules, how about a suggestion on how I stay here for 6 months a year legitimately / legally, without border runs, which used to be encouraged via an O-A Multiple Visa ? 

[UncleMhee]

7 hours ago, Chill27 said:

if I fail to then buy a ME permit from Immigration and leave the country, when I try to re enter my visa will be invalid?

Correct.....what you will be looking at buying though is a; Multi Re-entry Permit at immigration, Bht 3,8-900.

 

Thanks for your good wishes. Hopefully the dust will have settled.

[Max69xl]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

That's how most people find a legitimate job in Thailand.

 

They enter on a tourist visa, find a job, then leave the country and change visa type to one that allows work, of course this can only be done once you have found your job.....

This guy didn't look for a job and stayed on tourist visas and extensions for a quite long time during 1 year. That's not genuine tourism imo, and that's what Immigration also thought.

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

That person would have to leave while the O-A is still valid and stay outside of Thailand until it expires since the valid O-A would have a ME with it.  This might be tricky if there are any issues with the 90 day O.

Why? He could have a permit to stay beyond the visa validity date. It is only important he cancel that permission (ie have no re-entry permit).

[pookondee]

5 hours ago, lkv said:

Permissions of stay

 

1. Visa exempt 30 days

2. Tourist visa (SETV or METV) 60 days

3. Non Immigrant O visa 90 days

4. Extension of stay 12 months

5. Non O-A 12 months.

 

So, if John wants to stay 9 months, the solution should be number 3+4 or number 5, not number 1 or number 2 repeatedly with visa runs.

 

That's what immigration defines as "the correct visa for the duration of your stay". When you don't have to do visa runs and you can stay continually for that intended stay.

 

In practice, John can also stay up to 9 months stretching a METV, and doing visa runs, but the more he does it, the more it becomes a lottery.

I guess trying to enter on any visa is a lottery if you tick all the boxes of suspicion for IOs.

And i'd assume general border bouncing from visa to visa without ever going home would be number 1.

 

As the other poster mentioned, extra variables add greater risk.

 

Going by the opinion of Thaivisa posters the list of things Thai IOs will victimise without prejudice is endless...

 

dressed rough, or dressed like an English teacher,

have tattos, tanned complexion, unshaven, half drunk or hungover,

a big nose, or smelling a bit on the nose, fly half way down...

 

It seems even being younger is even a

flag-fall, since they assume people can't afford to travel indefinately without having to work illegally.

 

Might be time to look at other options!

 

 

 

[pookondee]

4 hours ago, jackdd said:

It shows that he was denied entry with a METV (that's what he wrote on Facebook, the police report doesn't mention the type of tourist visa), after having spent about 5.5 months (less than 180 days) in 2019 in Thailand. This also means that he just proved money in a bank, and that he is employed or has a business in Canada, when he applied for the METV.

So somebody with a METV might be concerned that he may not be let into Thailand on his last entry, at which point he spent nearly 6 months in Thailand.

But what i noticed when looking at his Facebook picture: He is not white (but has a Canadian passport though), and we know how racist Thais can be, so this might have played a role.

Valid points for sure.

But the way i read it, (since there's no detail of what visas he had at what stages) he possibly had already entered and used up an METV,

 

then gone for a VE..

 

Then some time later he gets another METV from London, and was trying for the initial entry on that visa when he got done?

 

I have never before heard or read about anyone being denied ongoing entries on an previously used, activated but still valid METV..

just because the stay went over 6 months??

Is that a new thing for METVs?

 

Previously I would have doubted whether that would ever happen, but these days

who knows?

[Peter Denis]

Today day 19 of implementation of the health-insurance requirement.

As far as I know this is the present situation for OA - retirement Visa health-insurance status for entry / re-entry / extension of stay:

• First entry on pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > After initial - incorrect  - denials, since Nov 7 > no insurance requirement
• Re-entry on still valid pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 2 reports - queried about health insurance, but even while having no thai-approved HI certificate, both stamped in for full 12 months
• Re-entry with re-entry permit > Several reports > no insurance requirement
• Extension of stay for retirement based on original pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 1 highly credible first-hand report (CW) being approved without even mentioning health-insurance / 1 highly credible first-hand report (Nonthaburi) being denied for non-thai health insurance / several not first-hand reports (friends/know someone) of being denied for no health-insurance / several quoted statements by Immigration officers that Health-Insurance is required for extensions based on an original OA Visa.

The above based on TV Forum postings.

Please correct/update where inaccurate or incomplete.

[vivananahuahin]

10 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Today day 19 of implementation of the health-insurance requirement.

As far as I know this is the present situation for OA - retirement Visa health-insurance status for entry / re-entry / extension of stay:

• First entry on pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > After initial - incorrect  - denials, since Nov 7 > no insurance requirement
• Re-entry on still valid pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 2 reports - queried about health insurance, but even while having no thai-approved HI certificate, both stamped in for full 12 months
• Re-entry with re-entry permit > Several reports > no insurance requirement
• Extension of stay for retirement based on original pre Oct 31 issued OA Visa > 1 highly credible first-hand report (CW) being approved without even mentioning health-insurance / 1 highly credible first-hand report (Nonthaburi) being denied for non-thai health insurance / several not first-hand reports (friends/know someone) of being denied for no health-insurance / several quoted statements by Immigration officers that Health-Insurance is required for extensions based on an original OA Visa.

The above based on TV Forum postings.

Please correct/update where inaccurate or incomplete.

Is it not necessary to speak about these new regulations and extensions with the senior officer from the immigration office,the IOs are sometimes so confused with this health insurance?

[pookondee]

18 minutes ago, vivananahuahin said:

Is it not necessary to speak about these new regulations and extensions with the senior officer from the immigration office,the IOs are sometimes so confused with this health insurance?

Even so, you have to enter the country first!

Its been reported that the problem with (some) airport IOs asking for insurance for existing Non O-As returning

has been resolved,

in as far as certain people who were given only 30 days and told to arrange insurance have now apparently been re-stamped for their entitled 12 months at Chaengwattana.

(without the need for insurance).

 

I think the airport was Don Muang.

 

But being Thailand i dont think you'd gamble on the problem being fixed at other airports/border crossings.

 

This being Thai immigration, I wouldnt even assume the problem is permanently fixed anywhere (even at Don Muang)

 

Regardless, If you are in that situation and only given 30days and told to arrange insurance, it seems theres a good chance of getting that overturned with a visit to  Chaengwattana.

 

But whether other IMMs offices in Thailand will act in the same way is another gamble, of course!

[AAArdvark]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Why? He could have a permit to stay beyond the visa validity date. It is only important he cancel that permission (ie have no re-entry permit).

You said a valid O-A which has its own ME (ie the the first year of the visa).  There is no way that I know of to cancel that ME.  It he is in his second year (ie exit and reenter) he has no reentry permit unless he buys one.  So if he leaves within the first year, how does he cancel that permission?

[UncleMhee]

2 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

So if he leaves within the first year, how does he cancel that permission?

He can't!

Edited November 18, 2019 by UncleMhee

[AAArdvark]

1 minute ago, UncleMhee said:

He can't!

which is what I was getting at with my first reply.

[UncleMhee]

8 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

He could have a permit to stay beyond the visa validity date.

He could.... however if the visa validity is still active i.e. before the enter before date has passed; he can't.

Eg. If my visa expires 30 April 2020....I have been in and out with a permit to stay date of 15 August 2020. If I want to kill the O-A now in November 2019; I can't because my ME's won't be invalid till after 30 April 2020 and that's the soonest it can be done.

[nrasmussen]

50 minutes ago, AAArdvark said:

You said a valid O-A which has its own ME (ie the the first year of the visa).  There is no way that I know of to cancel that ME.  It he is in his second year (ie exit and reenter) he has no reentry permit unless he buys one.  So if he leaves within the first year, how does he cancel that permission?

When leaving the country without a re-entry permit the current permission to stay is always void. The type and validity of the visa that was used to enter the country are irrelevant.

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, nrasmussen said:

When leaving the country without a re-entry permit the current permission to stay is always void. The type and validity of the visa that was used to enter the country are irrelevant.

That's correct. 

However, when the original Visa validity date has not expired, you can re-enter and you will be provided with a new permission to stay.

What you cannot do in that situation, is applying for a new Visa, as that is only possible after your Visa validity date has expired.

Holders of a non-expired OA Visa, are therefore not able to switch to an O Visa and have to 'wait out' their time till the original OA Visa has expired.

Note: To make things even more complicated > When you do have an expired OA Visa, but you bought a multiple-entry Re-Entry Permit, you will have to 'wait out' the time till the end of your permission to stay.  Because on exiting Thailand the permission to stay will not be voided, but be kept alive by the Re-Entry Permit.

[gearbox]

To report:

 

Entered successfully with a multiple reentry permit at Don Mueang from Hanoi.

 

* O-A visa issued in Sydney 26 SEP 2018 and expired 24 Sep 2019

 

* Prior to expiration traveled back to Sydney and returned 18 Sep 2019, stamped for an year until Sep 2020.

 

* Got one year multiple reentry permit 15 Oct for 1 year, 3800 baht.

 

It wasn't 100% smooth process, the IO was unsure how to proceed and called his supervisor,  who allowed entry. Looks like some confusion is still there. The staff was polite and friendly.

 

 

[Max69xl]

23 minutes ago, gearbox said:

To report:

 

Entered successfully with a multiple reentry permit at Don Mueang from Hanoi.

 

* O-A visa issued in Sydney 26 SEP 2018 and expired 24 Sep 2019

 

* Prior to expiration traveled back to Sydney and returned 18 Sep 2019, stamped for an year until Sep 2020.

 

* Got one year multiple reentry permit 15 Oct for 1 year, 3800 baht.

 

It wasn't 100% smooth process, the IO was unsure how to proceed and called his supervisor,  who allowed entry. Looks like some confusion is still there. The staff was polite and friendly.

 

 

If you got another year 18 September 2019, then you entered on a ME, not on a re-entry permit. A re-entry permit won't give you another year.

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you got another year 18 September 2019, then you entered on a ME, not on a re-entry permit. A re-entry permit won't give you another year.

Yes, of course he entered on his still valid OA Visa on Sept 18, and was therefore stamped in for the full year he was entitled to.  Once in Thailand he then bought a multiple-entry Re-entry permit to keep the granted permission to stay, alive till Sept 2020.  With that re-entry permit he left and returned to Thailand just now.

And he wanted to update Forum members that no health-insurance requirement was imposed, which is quite normal as he entered with the re-entry permit. So once again re-confirmation that entering on a re-entry permit will not be challenged.

For me the really interesting part of his report was that:

It wasn't 100% smooth process, the IO was unsure how to proceed and called his supervisor,  who allowed entry. Looks like some confusion is still there. The staff was polite and friendly.

And that does indeed not inspire confidence that IO has got its act together by now.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Peter Denis

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, AAArdvark said:

You said a valid O-A which has its own ME (ie the the first year of the visa).  There is no way that I know of to cancel that ME.  It he is in his second year (ie exit and reenter) he has no reentry permit unless he buys one.  So if he leaves within the first year, how does he cancel that permission?

By returning after the Visa has expired... (or without insurance and re-entry permit!!!)

Edited November 18, 2019 by jacko45k

[Sheryl]

21 hours ago, Chill27 said:

It's been said on here that re entering on a Non Imm O A with a re entry permit, you shouldn't need to show proof of Med Insurance.

But my Non Imm OA visa was issued in August as a multiple entry visa.

Are people saying that in order to avoid buying the insurance, I should ignore the "Multiple Entry" on the actual visa, and in addition also buy a re entry permit? I'm going back to the Uk in December for 5 weeks.

Or are references to the "re entry permit" the same as the multiple entry that was included when I obtained the Visa?

The more I read, the more confusing it gets!

Thanks, if someone could clarify for me.

You will probably mot be allowed to enter on a RE permit as your OA is still valid.

 

You may or may not be asked for insurance. Initially they were asking it of everyone. Then it seemed ti get clarified that it was only for OAs issued after Oct 31 and it stopped. Then we have gotten some reports hete and thete of people on old (pre Ocr 31) OAs being asked again.

 

If you end up in this situation try to get to talk to a senior officet.

[Mango Bob]

Today I went to Ratchaburi Immigrations with my new passport and had them stamp of my A?O visa from 2005 and my current extension of stay.  The firs thing they told me is that I will require insurance when my extension ends.  I told them I knew that and that I would be going an applying for an O Visa for marriage.  She gave me an long instruction sheet what we need for submitted  the paperwork.  I also told them that I was going to get a  Reentry Permit to visit the states and would have any problems when I come back with some iO telling me I need insurance.  She told me no.     Hope that helps.

[suuki]

arrived at Bkk today with an O-A visa issued on October 16 in Sweden was stamped for 1 year, but the officer ask about insurance yes i have travel insurance i said but why do i need what i asked he did not answer but just looked at his computer for a long time and then stamped me in

 

//suki

[UncleMhee]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

You will probably mot be allowed to enter on a RE permit as your OA is still valid.

@Sheryl as I explained to @Chill27 in post #1267, it worked for me. Was told by IO RE permit trump's current valid visa with ME. 

Photos attached.

[Sheryl]

24 minutes ago, UncleMhee said:

@Sheryl as I explained to @Chill27 in post #1267, it worked for me. Was told by IO RE permit trump's current valid visa with ME. 

Photos attached.

 

great to know, thanks.

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, UncleMhee said:

@Sheryl as I explained to @Chill27 in post #1267, it worked for me. Was told by IO RE permit trump's current valid visa with ME. 

Photos attached.

Is that the official view from Immigration? 

[gearbox]

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, of course he entered on his still valid OA Visa on Sept 18, and was therefore stamped in for the full year he was entitled to.  Once in Thailand he then bought a multiple-entry Re-entry permit to keep the granted permission to stay, alive till Sept 2020.  With that re-entry permit he left and returned to Thailand just now.

And he wanted to update Forum members that no health-insurance requirement was imposed, which is quite normal as he entered with the re-entry permit. So once again re-confirmation that entering on a re-entry permit will not be challenged.

For me the really interesting part of his report was that:

It wasn't 100% smooth process, the IO was unsure how to proceed and called his supervisor,  who allowed entry. Looks like some confusion is still there. The staff was polite and friendly.

And that does indeed not inspire confidence that IO has got its act together by now.

Indeed...I handed over my passport opened on the reentry permit page, the same page had my stamp until Sep 2020. The IO started going through my passport and flicked a few times between the original O-A visa and the reentry permit, before calling his supervisor. There was a bit of talk between them before he stamped me. I don't speak Thai and have no idea what they were discussing.

[lkv]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

Is that the official view from Immigration? 

Immigration Act 1979

 

Section 39 : After having received permission for temporary entry into the Kingdom , if the alien leaves the Kingdom it is considered that his temporary entry permit has expired. But , if prior to leaving the alien is granted permission to return by the competent official , and the alien returning is not excluded from entry under Section 12.and the period of time previously authorized has not expired , the alien shall be authorized to stay in the Kingdom for the rest of the authorized time. 
In asking permission for re – entry , the alien must submit an application in accordance with the form and pay a fee in accordance with the rate and regulations as prescribed in the Ministerial Regulations.

 

It's irrelevant if the visa is single or multiple, if on any given permission of stay, you apply for a re-entry permit, and they issue it, you are authorised to return and continue the same stay.

Edited November 18, 2019 by lkv