Non O-A Extension my experience

[pitrevie]

I made my annual visit to CW a few weeks ago to renew my Retirement Non O-A extension along with the ME, forms TM7 & 8. I usually go around 10 days before the expiry date. Now I have always been aware that with old age medical coverage would be required and to that end over the years I have set money aside for what I refer to as my medical fund. In fact I would have no difficulty buying a condo with what I have set aside. However when I got to see the officer I was told that it was medical coverage or out. She wouldn’t even look at my bank book which was quite independent of the funds I use to support my extension.

I then had just over a week to arrange medical insurance which at my age I thought would be impossible but I managed to do so. The whole thing was a rush with a full medical required and I only received confirmation from the approved Thai insurance company two days before my expiry date. They were unable to supply me with the policy document in time for my visit to CW but nevertheless I thought that the acceptance letter would be sufficient, needless to say I was mistaken.

The IO Supervisor got me to ring the insurance company who then emailed the document 11 pages which I presented back to the officer. Another 30 minutes passed and then I was told that the policy was still not valid as it had not been entered onto the Immigration database. That was another phone call to the insurance company who then confirmed some time later that this had now been done. Lunch passed and around 1-30 pm I was called back in to be told that my medical insurance was now valid and that as it was effective the following day which was the expiry date of my visa and that I should return the following day to complete my application for an extension., further adding that I should update my bank book as that days update was no longer acceptable along with another photo copy.

The following day I was back again with all the photo copies etc. Now I have to say that the IO must have looked at my previous extension stamp photocopies at least a dozen times as if she expected them to change. The procedure appears to be that the IO scans your passport then makes an entry on the computer which generates a serial number which is then inserted on the new stamp in your passport. So presumably all of my previous applications have a similar number which is stored on their computer and yet there is this obsession almost with providing photocopies of each and every stamp.

In recent years I have taken to using my own bag whenever I go to the supermarket and even small reusable bags to contain the individual items in order to stop using plastic. However, given that this one government department must be responsible for the disappearance of at least one rain forest I don’t see why I bother.

The next visit was to the ME desk which in recent years requires a photocopy of the stamp their own department has just put in your passport.

My initial visit and the rejection because of no medical insurance and the difficulty of obtaining such at my age suggested that I had just over a week to arrange my affairs before having to depart. Now I have another year and I will use that to put my affairs in order and then return to my own country and I have already started this process. Whether I could obtain another extension is unimportant as sooner rather than later I would pass that threshold at which I could get medical insurance and then it would be even more difficult for me to arrange an orderly departure and resettlement in my own country. The thought of making any more visits to CW just fills me with dread. I feel that in their quest to rid Thailand of people who cannot pay their medical bills that they will also succeed in driving out many who can and do pay their bills and that have been a financial asset, albeit a modest one to their country.

[scottiejohn]

I appreciate your feelings.

For the benefit of others would you mind disclosing which Insurance company, contact details, age and how much.

[Martyp]

You have been self insuring for years but You didn’t mention how long you have known about the new insurance requirements before going to CW. Was the need for insurance this year a complete surprise?

 

Also, note that you can apply for an extension 45 days early at CW. Best not to wait until the last minute so you will have plenty of time to deal with unexpected problems.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Martyp

[pitrevie]

8 minutes ago, Martyp said:

You have been self insuring for years but You didn’t mention how long you have known about the new insurance requirements before going to CW. Was the need for insurance this year a complete surprise?

 

Also, note that you can apply for an extension 45 days early at CW. Best not to wait until the last minute so you will have plenty of time to deal with unexpected problems.

No it wasn't a complete surprise I have been following the discussion but I naively thought that having sufficient funds that more than cover the medical cover they require would be okay. As for the 45 days I was unaware of that. 

[Martyp]

Just now, pitrevie said:

No it wasn't a complete surprise I have been following the discussion but I naively thought that having sufficient funds that more than cover the medical cover they require would be okay. As for the 45 days I was unaware of that. 

The most interesting part of the story is that you were able to get insurance in a weeks time. You might want to tell people what you did with regard to your insurance.

 

Also, CW was being very patient and helpful to you. If it is section L you went to, they are very efficient and businesslike. They are not there to chat, make friends, and listen to everyone's story. First time I didn't have the proper banking documents. She told me what to do and I did it and returned without having to wait in line. The last time I went I got a nice smile from the officer sitting further in the back. Probably because this time I had all my proper paperwork.

[pitrevie]

18 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

I appreciate your feelings.

For the benefit of others would you mind disclosing which Insurance company, contact details, age and how much.

The Insurance Company I used was Pacific Cross which is on the approved list. It cost me just under 40K. 

[Martyp]

1 minute ago, pitrevie said:

The Insurance Company I used was Pacific Cross which is on the approved list. It cost me just under 40K. 

Good to know. Same as me. I just happened to get a policy with them last January so I was already in compliance with the insurance regulation. In addition to that, I renewed on Oct 7th, 42 days early, before they started enforcing the requirement.

[Peter Denis]

I really feel for you, but I wonder why you did choose the bumpy road to buy the thai health-insurance coverage.

You write that you did follow the discussions on the TV Forum, so I assume that you were aware that there was also the option to convert your OA - retirement Visa to an O - retirement Visa.

Yes, that would have meant making a trip abroad, return Visa exempt and apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at your local IO, and in the last month of that 90-day Visa, apply for a 1 year extension of stay of that Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  The requirements for that last step are identical with the failed extension you did now, but with the difference that NO health-insurance would be required.

Were their particular reasons why you did not consider that option?

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

I really feel for you, but I wonder why you did choose the bumpy road to buy the thai health-insurance coverage.

You write that you did follow the discussions on the TV Forum, so I assume that you were aware that there was also the option to convert your OA - retirement Visa to an O - retirement Visa.

Yes, that would have meant making a trip abroad, return Visa exempt and apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at your local IO, and in the last month of that 90-day Visa, apply for a 1 year extension of stay of that Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  The requirements for that last step are identical with the failed extension you did now, but with the difference that NO health-insurance would be required.

Were their particular reasons why you did not consider that option?

I got the impression from TV posts that it's only a matter of time that the alternative options would be subject to the same requirements. Then there is the age barrier and there must come a time when I will be unable to get medical over or that it would become so expensive as to make it not worth considering. Hence my decision to leave while I am able to make the transition.

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I got the impression from TV posts that it's only a matter of time that the alternative options would be subject to the same requirements.

The last thing I would depend upon is future predictions from the paranoid, cynical, and bitter TV posters. Go with the TV posters that post actual experiences such as yourself.

[lamyai3]

36 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

No it wasn't a complete surprise I have been following the discussion but I naively thought that having sufficient funds that more than cover the medical cover they require would be okay.

It's a reasonable enough assumption, since the rules have not been officially confirmed as being retroactive. 

[sqwakvfr]

Pacific Cross got a policy approved and documents out in one week. I am going into my 4th week and still no documents.  I did not need a medical exam and thought the process would be little bit quicker.  

[Martyp]

34 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

It's a reasonable enough assumption, since the rules have not been officially confirmed as being retroactive. 

He knew there was a possibility he would be asked for insurance and thought he might be able to use his self insurance bank account to qualify. That isn't a reasonable assumption.

 

However, he may have been given written instructions about what is required for his extension for the coming year (such as the bank account minimums). If the insurance requirement has been added to the written instructions then that would be "official" notice.

 

I can see not going to the expense of insurance before trying to see if you can get away without it. However, you need to do some research beforehand and be prepared to buy it before your extension expires. Going in 30 days early is possible everywhere and 45 days early at CW. He was lucky to be able to purchase insurance in 1 weeks time. 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, Martyp said:

I can see not going to the expense of insurance before trying to see if you can get away without it.

Yes, this was my point. Agree though that if immigration was going to insist on insurance they wouldn't accept any alternative to what's laid out in the new regulations. 

 

At some point I guess enough of a stink will be raised about the way IO's are interpreting the O-A extension rules that senior immigration will be forced to clarify what's what. 

[Martyp]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

 

At some point I guess enough of a stink will be raised about the way IO's are interpreting the O-A extension rules that senior immigration will be forced to clarify what's what. 

Which is what has happened with the TM30 regulation. 

[TaoNow]

I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this trip report.

 

OP went to Immo CW, which I view to be the standard bearer for how the regs are applied.

 

If OP's experience is representative, it would appear that the health insurance requirement is being applied retro-actively to anyone who came in on an O-A visa and then has extended permission to stay ever since.

 

To me, that would set a remarkable precedent that I don't think we've seen before, at least not at Chaeng Wattana Immigration.

[TheAppletons]

19 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this trip report.

 

OP went to Immo CW, which I view to be the standard bearer for how the regs are applied.

 

If OP's experience is representative, it would appear that the health insurance requirement is being applied retro-actively to anyone who came in on an O-A visa and then has extended permission to stay ever since.

 

To me, that would set a remarkable precedent that I don't think we've seen before, at least not at Chaeng Wattana Immigration.

  Yet it appears to be relatively consistent with what other Immigration Offices are telling people also.  

[Martyp]

16 minutes ago, TaoNow said:

I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this trip report.

 

OP went to Immo CW, which I view to be the standard bearer for how the regs are applied.

 

If OP's experience is representative, it would appear that the health insurance requirement is being applied retro-actively to anyone who came in on an O-A visa and then has extended permission to stay ever since.

 

To me, that would set a remarkable precedent that I don't think we've seen before, at least not at Chaeng Wattana Immigration.

No one is remarking about it because this isn’t new news. Most people have accepted this is the Interpretation of the insurance regulations regarding 1 year extensions. It has been discussed for a long time as well as the suggestion that people change to a Non-O visa.

[Suradit69]

23 hours ago, Martyp said:

Good to know. Same as me. I just happened to get a policy with them last January so I was already in compliance with the insurance regulation. In addition to that, I renewed on Oct 7th, 42 days early, before they started enforcing the requirement.

 

 

Would a new extension of stay be granted only to the date your current insurance policy ends? So if your insurance year ends in October and your extension of stay would normally end in December ( just as a hypothetical example) would your next extension only be from December to October when your insurance coverage ends? 

 

i thought I read somewhere that extensions of stay would only be given for periods covered by insurance.

 

 

[Peter Denis]

30 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

i thought I read somewhere that extensions of stay would only be given for periods covered by insurance.

Yes, that's how it is written in the PoliceOrder

[Sheryl]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:19 AM, pitrevie said:

The Insurance Company I used was Pacific Cross which is on the approved list. It cost me just under 40K. 

 Which plan and how much deductible?

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, TaoNow said:

I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this trip report.

 

OP went to Immo CW, which I view to be the standard bearer for how the regs are applied.

 

If OP's experience is representative, it would appear that the health insurance requirement is being applied retro-actively to anyone who came in on an O-A visa and then has extended permission to stay ever since.

 

To me, that would set a remarkable precedent that I don't think we've seen before, at least not at Chaeng Wattana Immigration.

Not the first such report from CW.

 

 

[Martyp]

45 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

 

 

Would a new extension of stay be granted only to the date your current insurance policy ends? So if your insurance year ends in October and your extension of stay would normally end in December ( just as a hypothetical example) would your next extension only be from December to October when your insurance coverage ends? 

 

i thought I read somewhere that extensions of stay would only be given for periods covered by insurance.

 

 

You are correct. In my case though I applied for the extension on Oct 7th which was before the announced enforcement date. My extension expires in November 2020 now.

[sfokevin]

I think it deplorable that Thai immigration now uses a third party for profit created database to determine visa eligibility... 

 

I will most likely scate by in January as I have a Non O... But like the OP I plan on spending next summer terminating my 5yr lease, selling up, sacking the staff and stuff my suitcase with my 800k and move home... 

Edited December 5, 2019 by sfokevin

[Mansell]

How old was the gentleman?

i thought that the health insurance was for new folks getting an O-A from their home country....not people already here.

i think next year it will be an agent as I will be 76 and the insurance will be outrageous for basically nothing. Very sad the road Thailand is walking down.

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, TaoNow said:

I'm surprised there isn't more comment on this trip report.

 

OP went to Immo CW, which I view to be the standard bearer for how the regs are applied.

 

If OP's experience is representative, it would appear that the health insurance requirement is being applied retro-actively to anyone who came in on an O-A visa and then has extended permission to stay ever since.

 

To me, that would set a remarkable precedent that I don't think we've seen before, at least not at Chaeng Wattana Immigration.

you been at sea for the last month ?? 

 

Thats EXACTLY that the many threads, some running near 100 pages, have discussed in detail. 

[Suradit69]

On December 4, 2019 at 10:11 AM, sqwakvfr said:

Pacific Cross got a policy approved and documents out in one week. I am going into my 4th week and still no documents.  I did not need a medical exam and thought the process would be little bit quicker.  

Yes, when I talked to an agent, she said PC normally took at least a month after submission of medical exam ( in my case ) and application before underwriters would approve.

[4MyEgo]

21 hours ago, Martyp said:

Which is what has happened with the TM30 regulation. 

It just goes to show the mindset of those powers that be upstairs having no future economic outlook, just all ego's, first the TM30 saga, e.g. Big Jokes replacement coming out with we will make sure we know where all the foreigners are, even when they know where most of us law abiding married and retired farangs with extensions are, and apply this draconean rule which apparently has been around for 40 years, one brush taints all, except they miscalculated that foreigners do not take to likely to ankle bracelets, some of us do look forward along and see what is at stake and comply, albeit leaves a bad taste in our mouths, but it is just another negative for us added to the list of negatives, we then find out how much future damage they have done on an economic side of things, e.g. not just from the TM30 domestic side of things, but the word spreading abroad and other stupid things they are or have done, the list too long to go into, but we all get it, although I don't know if Yinn does, no doubt will here something on the lines, go back your country if not like here...lol

 

Then on the quiet, so they don't lose face, some IO's are saying you don't need to do the TM30 unless your returning from overseas.

 

I dare say I don't see the insurance debagle spreading into other extensions, i.e. unless they want us all out, regardless the maths tells me as much as they might want to, it ain't going to happen.

[kingofthemountain]

On 12/4/2019 at 9:38 AM, Peter Denis said:

I assume that you were aware that there was also the option to convert your OA - retirement Visa to an O - retirement Visa.

Yes, that would have meant making a trip abroad, return Visa exempt and apply for a 90-day Non Imm O - retirement Visa at your local IO, and in the last month of that 90-day Visa, apply for a 1 year extension of stay of that Non Imm O - retirement Visa.  The requirements for that last step are identical with the failed extension you did now, but with the difference that NO health-insurance would be required.

Go from an OA extension to an O visa then extension based on retirment it's not a walk in the park for a lot of us.

 

If you apply outside of Thailand a proof of retirement by your consulate is required, and a lot of us between 50 and 65 years old are not officialy retired yet from ours countries.

 

If you apply inside Thailand, the proof of the 800 000 bahts coming from abroad is required.

Most of us have already the 800 000 in a Thai bank and since long time, so it's difficult to prove the money come from abroad.

 

At the moment i am still not sure i will be able to have a solution at these 2 problems

for my next renewal extension, so it could be my last year here in Thailand as i am reluctant to use an agent

(Anyway i am not even sure the use of an agent can help if you don't have the health insurance)

Edited December 5, 2019 by kingofthemountain

[LivinLOS]

15 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

Go from an OA extension to an O visa then extension based on retirment it's not a walk in the park for a lot of us.

 

If you apply outside of Thailand a proof of retirement by your consulate is required, and a lot of us between 50 and 65 years old are not officialy retired yet from ours countries.

 

If you apply inside Thailand, the proof of the 800 000 bahts coming from abroad is required.

Most of us have already the 800 000 in a Thai bank and since long time, so it's difficult to prove the money come from abroad.

 

At the moment i am still not sure i will be able to have a solution at these 2 problems

for my next renewal extension, so it could be my last year here in Thailand as i am reluctant to use an agent

(Anyway i am not even sure the use of an agent can help if you don't have the health insurance)

Money doesnt need to come from abroad when seasoned and local consuls dont need 'proof' of retirement other than rocking up with money in the bank.. 

Both non issues.