Bangkok falls in popularity amongst expats: survey

[webfact]

Bangkok falls in popularity amongst expats: survey

 

 

Bangkok has suffered a significant fall in popularity amongst expats who live there, compared to one year ago, according to a new report.

 

Released this week, the Expat Insider: The Best & Worst Cities for Expats in 2019 by InterNations ranks the best and worst cities in the world for expats to live.

 

The report is based on a ranking of up to 82 cities worldwide.

 

To identify the best and worst cities for expats, 20,000 survey respondents living in 187 countries and territories worldwide were asked to rate more than 25 different aspects of urban life abroad on a scale of one to seven. 

 

The rating process emphasized the respondents’ personal satisfaction with these aspects and considered both emotional topics as well as more factual aspects with equal weight. The respondents’ ratings of the individual factors were then bundled in various combinations for a total of 13 subcategories, and their mean values were used to draw up four topical indices: Quality of Urban Living, Getting Settled, Urban Work Life, and Finance & Housing. 

 

The report ranked Thailand in 20th place overall, a significant fall from the 5th place it ranked in 2018 and its 8th place ranking in 2017.

 

The report found that Bangkok scored poorly amongst expats for health and environment and political stability.

 

Expats said they regarded the Thai capital as one of the worst in the world for the quality of the environment (79th), while it ranked 74th for political stability.

 

Visa bureaucracy was another complaint amongst working expats.

 

“Visa regulations and the amount of paperwork needed to get a work permit makes it very difficult for expats to stay for a long period of time,” a Bulgarian expat said.

 

But it wasn’t all bad, with expats generally still finding Bangkok to be safe and affordable, especially when it comes to finding reasonably priced housing.

 

Bangkok ranked in 5th place out of the Asian cities that featured in the survey and ranked third overall in the Finance & Housing Index.

 

More than four in seven expats (58%) say that housing in Bangkok is affordable (vs. 36% globally), and 80% of respondents state that it is easy to find (vs. 50% globally). While Bangkok also ranks high for the local cost of living (9th).

 

The vast majority are satisfied with the availability of healthcare (83% vs. 73% globally) and feels safe (89% vs. 81% globally). “It is a much safer place for my son to grow up in,” said a German expat.

 

 

 

For the second year in a row Taipei was found to be the best city to live in as an expat. 

 

“The cost of living in Taiwan is cheaper compared to Japan, Korea, and Hong Kong, for example,” says an expat from India. “And Taiwan’s health insurance and safety are what make it attractive to me.” In fact, 96% of expats state to feel safe in Taipei, compared to 81% globally. 

 

Kuala Lumpur came second overall and was voted the world’s easiest city to get settled as an expat. Three in four expats (75%) feel at home in Kuala Lumpur (vs. 64% globally), and 69% are happy with their social life (vs. 55% globally). Language also does not seem to be a problem, as 92% find it easy to live in the city without speaking the local language (vs. 47% globally). “It is easy to blend in with the culture, the food, and the people,” explains an expat from India, “and the language is not a problem if one can speak English.” 

 

Ho Chi Minh City was voted third overall, with close to nine in ten expats (87%) saying that it is easy to find housing (vs. 50% globally), and 77% being happy with their financial situation (vs. 57% globally), the city tops the ranking in the Finance & Housing Index for the second year running. The same is true for the Local Cost of Living Index (1st). Ho Chi Minh City is also popular for its thriving work life (3rd). 

 

Expats are particularly happy with their jobs in general (79% vs. 64% globally), the local career opportunities (68% vs. 51% globally), and their working hours (75% vs. 62% globally). What is more, Ho Chi Minh City comes in third worldwide for both the Local Friendliness and Friends & Socializing subcategories. 

 

When asked what they like about Ho Chi Minh City, a Philippine respondent replies: “It is easy to deal and work with the people here, and the cost of living is good.” 

 

The results of the survey echoes the findings of a similar survey by InterNations released in September, which found that Thailand overall had also fallen in popularity amongst expats. 

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2019-12-06

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[4MyEgo]

5th to 20th, slam dunk, no doubt the TM30 had something to do with this and the mandatory health insurance for non O/A visa holders.

 

Nice work, Thailand.......what's instal for us next, and where will you sit next year, 50 ?

[BobbyL]

In terms of being an affordable place that offers a good lifestyle then that is definitely true. However, pollution and the constant immigration nuisances are things that seem to be getting worse over recent years.  

[intheheartoftheheart]

Interesting list.

 

As someone that's been criss-crossing the globe for 4 years, staying wherever I like (with money not really an object, but also not something I like wasting) for a few months at a time, Taipei makes no sense to me.

 

Monthly rentals are few and far between and Toyko-level TINY. Food is great and everything else is cheap though. Housing is an issue. The new generation seems to have given up on learning English outside of Taipei, though.

 

KL is the most underrated town in SEA for expats. All the convenience of Bangkok (malls, healthcare, Grab) with none of the <deleted> (traffic, drunken chavs, airborne STDs) . It's the quietest, greenest SEA capital I've been to. Except for when the Sumatran burnings waft over ????

 

Singapore is the most boring city on earth. HCM is always good for a few weeks but can't imagine a few years there. 

 

Barcelona a tourist-hellhole, equal parts Nigerian scammers and Chinese herds. Nothing good left. Girona up the coast or Tarragona (or Valencia) are much better. 

 

Lisbon great if you have strong legs. Veering towards Barcelona levels of mass-tourism though.

 

Hague/Zug/Basel, no comment. Likely financial-parasite postings. Will dry up in the 2020 reset. 

 

 

 

 

 

[toenail]

DUH...we’re treated like sheet- We may have a visa but have to report every 90 days to immigration; looked upon as “ting tong farangs” to rip off &the strong baht makes most things  seem expensive. 

[Hockeybik]

"Visa bureaucracy was another complaint amongst working expats." - Well, duh. I'll bet if you dig a little deeper I'll bet that's the number one reason for the loss of places. It's never been easy here but this year it ramped up a bit on the difficulty scale.

[dcsw53]

To the government surveys mean nothing. The only language they understand is visitor numbers and looking after themselves. Until numbers fall and realization that feathering their own nests is not now acceptable in this world dawns nothing will change. Anyone disagreeing should buy their exit ticket now.

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

5th to 20th, slam dunk, no doubt the TM30 had something to do with this and the mandatory health insurance for non O/A visa holders.

 

Nice work, Thailand.......what's instal for us next, and where will you sit next year, 50 ?

 

I don't think that this is an index that they will even bother reading. No interest to them. 

[hansnl]

8 minutes ago, dcsw53 said:

To the government surveys mean nothing. The only language they understand is visitor numbers and looking after themselves. Until numbers fall and realization that feathering their own nests is not now acceptable in this world dawns nothing will change. Anyone disagreeing should buy their exit ticket now.

In my circle many did, two went home, two went to Manilla and one is getting ready to leave.

[BobbyL]

23 minutes ago, toenail said:

DUH...we’re treated like sheet- We may have a visa but have to report every 90 days to immigration; looked upon as “ting tong farangs” to rip off &the strong baht makes most things  seem expensive. 

I agree with most, but the strong baht is great for expats earning a western salary here. My UK pension contributions are far lower than a few years ago. Not so good for retirees etc though. 

[spidermike007]

A hapless government controlled by a completely incompetent army that despises foreigners and is racist and extremely xenophobic can dramatically affect how welcome we feel as both Western tourists and ex-pats. 

 

Hopefully one day in the future the horrific and super corrupt generals will be held to account for their many crimes against this nation and their dreadful mismanagement of the economy and the tourism sector, which they are literally destroying. 

[longevity]

I didn't take part in the survey, but it reflects pretty much what I feel. Been in Bangkok 15+ years, and am getting ready to exit in Spring next year. 

 

Main reasons: IM bureaucracy and dissatisfaction with the educational options for my kids. Both will be better where we're going. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by longevity

[justin case]

they ask working expats where the home company might pay a big fat salary, international school for their children, housing, a maid, a driver, ....

[khunpa]

Well let’s hope someone important reads this and starts to make some changes...

 

(Just joking)

[MaxLee]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Bangkok falls in popularity amongst expats: survey

Yeah, the nasty, nasty Falang and their resentment.... 

 

Thank TM 30 for that for a major contributor...... 

[NicoBKK]

Lagos (assuming Nigeria not Portugal) scoring better vs Milan or Rome? Well as Italian I agree these are not the easiest cities for expats, but come on..

[intheheartoftheheart]

Yeah the methodology for the survey is absurd. Nothing wrong with parts of Rome and Milan. 2nd tier cities in Northern Italy like Turin, Bergamo, Verona, Bolzano are even better. High quality of life. 

 

Lagos is likely the future of the world, but I'd like to avoid that future as long as I can. 

[natway09]

This all sounds great to me.

Time some of the whining expats went home anyway.

Some of my bar discussions of late sound like an English pub discussion on Brexit.

Ho Ch & KL ranking above Bangkok, come on lived in both . Could not wait to get out,

but enjoy a weeks break in both.

Huge difference between living & visiting

[shy coconut]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

5th to 20th, slam dunk, no doubt the TM30 had something to do with this and the mandatory health insurance for non O/A visa holders.

 

Nice work, Thailand.......what's instal for us next, and where will you sit next year, 50 ?

Blimey, you didn't mention cost of living.

 

I see London languishing at #72 and we don't have TM30, 90 day reports and a currency

in the gutter, any thoughts? 

[bbbbooboo]

Hmmm... if the damn farangs ( a.k.a. “the alien” )didn’t come here then we wouldn’t have this problem?

[Liverpudlian]

15 minutes ago, shy coconut said:

Blimey, you didn't mention cost of living.

 

I see London languishing at #72 and we don't have TM30, 90 day reports and a currency

in the gutter, any thoughts? 

Dont you mean Londonistan ? stab vests R US are making a killing ... pun intended ????

[spidermike007]

28 minutes ago, intheheartoftheheart said:

Yeah the methodology for the survey is absurd. Nothing wrong with parts of Rome and Milan. 2nd tier cities in Northern Italy like Turin, Bergamo, Verona, Bolzano are even better. High quality of life. 

 

Lagos is likely the future of the world, but I'd like to avoid that future as long as I can. 

Lagos has to rank right up there with virtually anywhere in the PI. Like living in Tijuana. 

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

5th to 20th, slam dunk, no doubt the TM30 had something to do with this and the mandatory health insurance for non O/A visa holders.

 

Nice work, Thailand.......what's instal for us next, and where will you sit next year, 50 ?

Not to mention the air pollution, politics, corruption, traffic/road situation.... plus a few more.

[Sumarianson]

With the 800K in the bank for 5 months without touching it and only 400K withdrawal thereafter. It means that I have to transfer over 400K more to survive for those months. Because of the bad exchange rate between UK and Thailand it means transferring over £30,000 which I will not afford. I have insted cut back severely on my spending on myself my wife and child. 

I am also planning to move home as the red tape has got too much just like it was for the Imm O for family visa was. The Thai government does not care about tearing families apart as long as their brown envelope's arrive ok from the institutions and individuals that profit from the corrupt policies of the government. They are more corrupt than the individuals they deposed.

[aussienam]

The strong Thsi Baht must be a significant contributing factor IMO. 

 

* Grocery shopping here is very expensive.  (AUD to THB in my case)  

Crazy prices at the supermarket.  High tariffs on anything imported already meant prices were never cheap when the THB was weaker anyway. 

 

* I can buy most things back in OZ much cheaper.  And that's with supermarkets/shops there paying much higher rents and salaries.  

 

* Eating out is now the same price as in OZ and lower quality and quantity on the plate!   

 

* I am considering Vietnam again.  Would be great to do some part time work as a retiree for pocket money.  Cannot do that here.  Did that when in Nam.  

 

* Feel like a convicted person on probation/parole reporting every 90 days and TM30s for any trips I make!  Thai authorities seem very contemptuous towards us as well.  Almost feel ashamed to be a farang here, like a second class citizen.  Ok. rant finished.

[lust]

 

“Visa regulations and the amount of paperwork needed to get a work permit makes it very difficult for expats to stay for a long period of time,” a Bulgarian expat said.
 

Why use only one Bulgarian expat quote to back this up? Why not state the real facts, that it’s thousands of expats who are saying the same thing?

[chilli42]

I concur, I detest the place. The only plus I can think of is affordability.  I lived in Canada with my Thai wife for 3 years.  She hated it - boring was the first word out her mouth followed closely by Canadians have no sense of humor (maybe she meant me).  Well, to each their own.  I would happily leave Bangkok and never come back.  Happy wife happy life.

[ChipButty]

It's not just Bangkok it's the whole of Thailand thats going down the drain

[uncleeagle]

1 hour ago, aussienam said:

The strong Thsi Baht must be a significant contributing factor IMO. 

 

* Grocery shopping here is very expensive.  (AUD to THB in my case)  

Crazy prices at the supermarket.  High tariffs on anything imported already meant prices were never cheap when the THB was weaker anyway. 

 

* I can buy most things back in OZ much cheaper.  And that's with supermarkets/shops there paying much higher rents and salaries.  

 

* Eating out is now the same price as in OZ and lower quality and quantity on the plate!   

 

* I am considering Vietnam again.  Would be great to do some part time work as a retiree for pocket money.  Cannot do that here.  Did that when in Nam.  

 

* Feel like a convicted person on probation/parole reporting every 90 days and TM30s for any trips I make!  Thai authorities seem very contemptuous towards us as well.  Almost feel ashamed to be a farang here, like a second class citizen.  Ok. rant finished.

 

Agree with all your points and have been running down my Thai bank funds and will not be bothering with extending my visa again next year, im tired of the petty minded, time wasting, abusive and ever more complicated immigration process as well as your other points.

 

But on Vietnam, as I understand it, the long stay visa options are quite limited so not sure it will be good alternative quite yet apart from for short visits.

 

[BuddyPish]

6 minutes ago, uncleeagle said:

 

Agree with all your points and have been running down my Thai bank funds and will not be bothering with extending my visa again next year, im tired of the petty minded, time wasting, abusive and ever more complicated immigration process as well as your other points.

 

But on Vietnam, as I understand it, the long stay visa options are quite limited so not sure it will be good alternative quite yet apart from for short visits.

 

Plus they'll toss you in jail if you criticize the government on social media or whatever equivalent of Thaivisa there is out there.
They know how to deal with whining foreigners

.