Tyre pressure and front wheel alignment

[DaRoadrunner]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Any shop that says 'cannot' - go find a competent shop

Lots o luck there! B Quik Chonburi is the only one I have found so far that does it properly. Next to Central.

 

To clarify. Every model of car is different. All have Toe adjustment. Some also have Camber. Castor adjustment is very rarely seen except on racing cars.

[JAS21]

8 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Lots o luck there! B Quik Chonburi is the only one I have found so far that does it properly. Next to Central.

 

To clarify. Every model of car is different. All have Toe adjustment. Some also have Camber. Castor adjustment is very rarely seen except on racing cars.

True... We have a W213 with a battery and nobody has ever said ‘can do’ other than toe.

[JungleBiker]

On 12/10/2019 at 12:20 PM, transam said:

29psi on the Vigo with 265 tyres, higher on a Vigo with factory skinny tyres...

Thanks Transam, you are correct, the handbook says 29 psi for 265 tyres, not 28 psi as I wrongly stated in my first post. 

[bearpolar]

22 hours ago, JungleBiker said:

Thanks Transam, you are correct, the handbook says 29 psi for 265 tyres, not 28 psi as I wrongly stated in my first post. 

I personally like to add 1 or 2 psi to the recommended as you never know when your tires will drop by 1-2 psi. 1-2 psi isnt enough to impact quality of drive but it might help a bit on coasting.  My pajero is 29 and 32 in the back so i do 30-33

[transam]

6 hours ago, bearpolar said:

I personally like to add 1 or 2 psi to the recommended as you never know when your tires will drop by 1-2 psi. 1-2 psi isnt enough to impact quality of drive but it might help a bit on coasting.  My pajero is 29 and 32 in the back so i do 30-33

As soon as you start driving the pressure increases, that's why you check "cold". But saying that, I did experiment with the 4x4 auto trans Vigo (bit more weight at the front), ended up with 32 front, 29/30 rear...

[Don Mega]

On 12/10/2019 at 8:32 PM, DaRoadrunner said:

Beg to differ. Angle of rims is affected by tyre pressure. Job number one before doing alignment is check all pressures or you will not get accurate readings. Job number two... find someone who uses the alignment machine correctly... very hard to find in Thailand!

Would have to be a large change in pressure for it to affect wheel alignment

How is the rim angle affected.. does tyre pressure change the hub mounting flange ?

[DaRoadrunner]

2 hours ago, Don Mega said:

Would have to be a large change in pressure for it to affect wheel alignment

How is the rim angle affected.. does tyre pressure change the hub mounting flange ?

Tyre pressure affects Camber if left and right sides are not equal pressure. On a sensitive sports car like mine, 1/2 PSI pressure difference will cause it to pull to one side. Adjustment is quite fine, being measured in degrees and minutes (one minute being a 60th of a degree). Skilled drivers play with the standard figs to produce alternative handling outcome.

 

9 hours ago, bearpolar said:

I personally like to add 1 or 2 psi to the recommended

Go too high and you lose grip. Too low and you get rapid tyre wear and poor handling. There is a reason for the manufacturer’s pressure figs, though even they get it wrong some times!

 

The heat in Thailand greatly increases pressures so you may want to consider this.

 

Example;- my car is supposed to run 30PSI F/R, but I find 29/27 works best.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by DaRoadrunner

[Don Mega]

4 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Tyre pressure affects Camber if left and right sides are not equal pressure. On a sensitive sports car like mine, 1/2 PSI pressure difference will cause it to pull to one side.

 

Reading between the lines I doubt the OP's Vigo is a sensitive sports car, happy to be proven wrong though.

[tinca tinca]

i suggest to go to a B QUICK service place....they are very good.....!!!

[Don Mega]

6 minutes ago, tinca tinca said:

i suggest to go to a B QUICK service place....they are very good.....!!!

Best to go out to a race track and pester one of the race teams to do it as tyre pressure does affect wheel alignment..... according to DaRoadrunner.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Don Mega

[DaRoadrunner]

3 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

Reading between the lines I doubt the OP's Vigo is a sensitive sports car, happy to be proven wrong though.

Point taken. Not wishing to offend anyone by saying they were wrong, it is just that I did this for a living for many years.

 

If you have the feel for it, a sports car is sensitive like a pair of ballet shoes. By comparison, a Vigo is like a pair of wellies! A skilled driver can sense a tiny difference in pressure or alignment.

[Don Mega]

3 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Point taken. Not wishing to offend anyone by saying they were wrong, it is just that I did this for a living for many years.

 

If you have the feel for it, a sports car is sensitive like a pair of ballet shoes. By comparison, a Vigo is like a pair of wellies! A skilled driver can sense a tiny difference in pressure or alignment.

Iam am involved in a race car team and I agree..... but for the OP and his every day Vigo machine... nah, tyre pressure has nothing to do with wheel alignment.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Don Mega

[DaRoadrunner]

1 minute ago, Don Mega said:

Best to go out to a race track and pester one of the race teams to do it as tyres pressure does affect wheel alignment..... according to DaRoadrunner.

Race cars use Nitrogen instead of air for their tyres as it remains the same pressure no matter what temperature.

 

Many other factors affect alignment. Bent chassis due to history of accident (common in Thailand!). Worn tyres or worn steering or suspension joints and bushes being common problems. Waste of time trying to set alignment if such problems exist.

[Don Mega]

2 minutes ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Race cars use Nitrogen instead of air for their tyres as it remains the same pressure no matter what temperature.

 

Many other factors affect alignment. Bent chassis due to history of accident (common in Thailand!). Worn tyres or worn steering or suspension joints and bushes being common problems. Waste of time trying to set alignment if such problems exist.

TA2 here... we dont use nitrogen.

 

[4MyEgo]

On 12/9/2019 at 3:21 PM, JungleBiker said:

Lady said no, they recommend 35 psi for the first week to let the tyres "stretch". 

That sounded like BS to me but I'm not a tyre expert and did not want to argue. 

Agree absolute BS, unless you want them stretched for aesthetic purposes which I doubt.

 

Wouldn't wait a week to deflate back to the recommended psi as Transam has suggested, should be found on the inside of the door, otherwise Google the tyre details and you should get the recommended psi.

 

As for the wheel alignment, deflating them won't affect the alignment.

[DaRoadrunner]

16 minutes ago, Don Mega said:

TA2 here... we dont use nitrogen.

 

No experience of TA2 or any racing in Thailand. Dont think I would want to race with the Thais!

[Lancashirelad]

They should really have done the alignment check before disturbing the way the car naturally sits by jacking it up. But maybe they didn't know it needed doing until they removed the old tyres and found them worn on the inside edge.

 

Tyre pressures DO NOT affect wheel alignment.

 

Reading the comments it seems maybe some don't know that alignment (tracking) is adjusted by changing how far the track (tie) rod ends are screwed onto the steering rack tie rods. #2 and 6 in the diagram below.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Lancashirelad

[DaRoadrunner]

5 minutes ago, Lancashirelad said:

alignment (tracking) is adjusted by changing how far the track (tie) rod ends are screwed onto the steering rack tie rods.

Correct ... That adjusts Toe. If your tyres were worn on the inside as you mention, then you had too much Toe out. (Either worn components or incorrect adjustment or accident damage are the cause). Most road cars run standard Toe in.

 

9 minutes ago, Lancashirelad said:

Tyre pressures DO NOT affect wheel alignment.

So every alignment shop in the whole world setting tyre pressures is wasting their time???

[Lancashirelad]

Absolutely not, correct tyre pressures are very important for grip, ride, wear and fuel economy.  

 

However if say 1 front tyre drops over time from 30psi to 25, it won't change the mechanical setting of the wheel alignment.

 

Rear wheel drive cars tend to have toe-in setting, front wheel drives toe-out.

[bearpolar]

13 hours ago, DaRoadrunner said:

Tyre pressure affects Camber if left and right sides are not equal pressure. On a sensitive sports car like mine, 1/2 PSI pressure difference will cause it to pull to one side. Adjustment is quite fine, being measured in degrees and minutes (one minute being a 60th of a degree). Skilled drivers play with the standard figs to produce alternative handling outcome.

 

Go too high and you lose grip. Too low and you get rapid tyre wear and poor handling. There is a reason for the manufacturer’s pressure figs, though even they get it wrong some times!

 

The heat in Thailand greatly increases pressures so you may want to consider this.

 

Example;- my car is supposed to run 30PSI F/R, but I find 29/27 works best.

 

thanks, i didnt know. Worked well back home, will stop doing it here.

[canthai55]

Can tire pressure affect camber? ... Tire overinflation or underinflation does not affect camber (change) if applied evenly to all tires. Ps. You can increase negative camber to the wheel of an independent suspension by severely over inflating it, or increase positive camber by severely under inflating it.

So if tires are not severely over or underinflated - no worries

Those in the 'motor trade' should be aware of this. If not, lots of years spent learning Nada

[DaRoadrunner]

9 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Can tire pressure affect camber? ... Tire overinflation or underinflation does not affect camber (change) if applied evenly to all tires. Ps. You can increase negative camber to the wheel of an independent suspension by severely over inflating it, or increase positive camber by severely under inflating it.

So if tires are not severely over or underinflated - no worries

Those in the 'motor trade' should be aware of this. If not, lots of years spent learning Nada

The way you re-wrote my comment you are correct but.... Puhleeeese read my post before commenting and insulting people.

 

here it is again...

 

Tyre pressure affects Camber if left and right sides are not equal pressure.

 

A list of other items also affect alignment. Odd tyres, worn steering or suspension, accident damage. Plus an endless number of people who do not know how to use the alignment machine!

 

Just to stir things.... Front wheel alignment can be affected by the rear wheels. Its called Thrust Angle. This is one of the reasons they use four wheel alignment machines.

Edited December 15, 2019 by DaRoadrunner