Chiang Mai Air Quality and Pollution

[rwill]

On 11/12/2019 at 1:44 AM, motdaeng said:

unfortunately i have to agree with you! we would like to move as well,

but personal commitment do not allow it right now. since a few weeks

our air purifiers are in use, even the burning season hasn't started yet ... 

Drove to Chiang Mai for a couple of weeks last month.  I didn't see much burning in Chiang Mai but driving thru Lampang there were fires burning everywhere.

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, Cheesekraft said:

looks like we are stuck at 160+ AQI until buddha knows when, July?

They ruined half of November, half of December, and now January is off to a terrible start. Official burn season starts around the end of February.

 

Just when you think they can’t screw things up even worse, they raise the bar.

7 months of burning. Way to go Thailand. 

[sfokevin]

Here is the historical AQi...

 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by sfokevin

[saengd]

4 minutes ago, dcnx said:

They ruined half of November, half of December, and now January is off to a terrible start. Official burn season starts around the end of February.

 

Just when you think they can’t screw things up even worse, they raise the bar.

7 months of burning. Way to go Thailand. 

Half of November and half of December, 7 months...Rubbish, take a nice lay down in a dark room!

 

 

[saengd]

1 minute ago, sfokevin said:

Here is the historical AQi...

 

 

I like that very much, where did you get it from, please?

[dcnx]

Just now, saengd said:

Half of November and half of December, 7 months...Rubbish, take a nice lay down in a dark room!

 

 

My mask was on for around two weeks of each month. If I’m wearing a mask, they’ve ruined the day.

 

I understand many of you think 100 to be a good day but you’re delusional. That’s terrible air by international standards.
 

2 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Here is the historical AQi...

 

 

That must be the averages because both November and December we had many days over 100 into the orange. My mask was on for about two weeks of both months.

[saengd]

1 minute ago, dcnx said:

My mask was on for around two weeks of each month. If I’m wearing a mask, they’ve ruined the day.

 

I understand many of you think 100 to be a good day but you’re delusional. That’s terrible air by international standards.
 

That must be the averages because both November and December we had many days over 100 into the orange. My mask was on for about two weeks of both months.

Two months yes, seven months definitely not!

[Sophon]

32 minutes ago, saengd said:

Two months yes, seven months definitely not!

The truth probably lies somewhere in-between. In a normal year year the air quality in Chiang Mai is pretty bad for 3-4 months, but last year it was more like 4-5 months (and the air quality was worse). Data from inside the moat taken from aqicn.org:

 

And for 2017-2018:

[cerox]

"Official burning season"?

I do not think there is such a thing.

 

Do not worry guys, soon there will be a burning ban sorting it all out 55555

[Samuel Smith]

In Saraphee, 5 months of good air in 2019.  My maths suggests that makes 7 months not good!

 

[cerox]

Now jokes aside, something to think about:

 

I see many people complaining about the smoke. And you are right, it is surely not good for your health. At the same time I see those people walking around main roads in Chiang Mai to do their daily shopping etc.

 

Get yourself a pocket/portable pm2.5 meter - you will be surprised that the pm2.5 concentration next to traffic is often higher than what you measure in the smoke air in side roads. So that walking without a mask next to heavy traffic is more damaging than the smoky air. Just talking about that 1h errand your a doing outside to get your stuff. At home close your windows and use air purifiers - I do that too.

 

Traffic pm2.5 concentration is very high in the Philippines and Vietnam when I went there. Grass is not greener on the other side. Summary: I am not saying the smoke is good - it is not, and I protect myself too while I am here. But I am trying to put that scaremongering into perspective with what I observe daily here.

[cerox]

That historical data, in my humble opinion is not very helpful because if I understand it correctly it is an average. Please correct me if I am wrong about that.

So if it shows me 120 or 100 AQI in December on many days, it does not tell me my exposure. If you are a morning person, you will notice on most days the pollution is highest in the morning, if they burn at night. In the morning you might have AQI 190, in the evening yellow again, and you get that average from the historical chart.

I would forget about it and rely on my own life - when do you go out, how was the air etc. This is what matters in the end.

 

The average chart is good for many Thai people (majority, not generalizing) because they have their windows open all day and esp. at night, do not use a mask or an air purifier.

[Bassosa]

11 minutes ago, cerox said:

Now jokes aside, something to think about:

 

I see many people complaining about the smoke. And you are right, it is surely not good for your health. At the same time I see those people walking around main roads in Chiang Mai to do their daily shopping etc.

 

Get yourself a pocket/portable pm2.5 meter - you will be surprised that the pm2.5 concentration next to traffic is often higher than what you measure in the smoke air in side roads. So that walking without a mask next to heavy traffic is more damaging than the smoky air. Just talking about that 1h errand your a doing outside to get your stuff. At home close your windows and use air purifiers - I do that too.

 

Traffic pm2.5 concentration is very high in the Philippines and Vietnam when I went there. Grass is not greener on the other side. Summary: I am not saying the smoke is good - it is not, and I protect myself too while I am here. But I am trying to put that scaremongering into perspective with what I observe daily here.

Agree. People underestimate the effect traffic has on air quality, but its on a very local level. 

 

Burning gives you a baseline, but the songthaews, tuktuks etc can really make PM2.5 levels spike, depending on where you live.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Bassosa

[cerox]

I said this because last year there was a guy complaining about smoky season in CNX, and he goes out without a mask maybe 1-2 hours a day. AQI 200. Goes to Cebu in burning season because "no burning" - traffic on main roads if you measure has AQI 200+ all the time. Very local as you say. Go two roads further to a side road it drops to AQI 70 or so. But in Cebu he walks because he does not live there , has no motorbike etc. - so maybe worse/more exposure than being in CNX.

 

It is sad that with this great weather you need to close windows and use equipment to keep the air clean. But it is not the end of the world. And sometimes daily exposure depending on your routine is not much better. So keep everything balanced, fear and the real world.

 

Still if checking AQI becomes a routine now 6 months of the year somewhere Southern Thailand or on the way from there to BKK might be better to live. Need to check that out.

 

My neighbors (Thai) are out all day. Windows open all night/day. No mask. No one bothers. I am not saying we should do it like that. Protection is good. But finding balance is important too. They are wealthy and own lots of property here, it is not only the peasants who cannot afford equipment who just are not interested.

 

I am staying until Feb 6th. Did not expect this to happen this early. But make the best out of it. More working indoors.

Edited January 10, 2020 by cerox

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, cerox said:

Now jokes aside, something to think about:

 

I see many people complaining about the smoke. And you are right, it is surely not good for your health. At the same time I see those people walking around main roads in Chiang Mai to do their daily shopping etc.

 

Get yourself a pocket/portable pm2.5 meter - you will be surprised that the pm2.5 concentration next to traffic is often higher than what you measure in the smoke air in side roads. So that walking without a mask next to heavy traffic is more damaging than the smoky air. Just talking about that 1h errand your a doing outside to get your stuff. At home close your windows and use air purifiers - I do that too.

 

Traffic pm2.5 concentration is very high in the Philippines and Vietnam when I went there. Grass is not greener on the other side. Summary: I am not saying the smoke is good - it is not, and I protect myself too while I am here. But I am trying to put that scaremongering into perspective with what I observe daily here.

I have one those from Xi and you’re correct. It gives me some really high numbers around busy roads. Much higher than the normal reports from stationary devices.

[dcnx]

46 minutes ago, cerox said:

They are wealthy and own lots of property here, it is not only the peasants who cannot afford equipment who just are not interested.

All of my neighbors are wealthy Thais. Not one of them wears a mask and all the large homes in the neighborhood burn trash like their lives depend on it.

 

The north has the highest rates of lung cancer for a reason and having  money doesn’t make you smart. 

[cerox]

I have that mi device too. Actually in front of my building (side road, little traffic) the numbers are always very close to the air purifier numbers and the numbers to the nearby station. This is why I figured it must be in some way reliable as a baseline.

But busy roads, really high numbers, esp. Vietnam with all the motorbikes. So your holiday in Saigon could be much worse for your health than being in CNX December/January.

 

Good feedback about your neighbors. Thanks for confirming.

[Ventenio]

Another day of more air that saturates our body, slowing killing us all.  I've decided if you don't leave at 150 readings, you are not leaving over pollution.   Because then you have already admitted that you can allow your body to breathe the toxic air, so continuing to do so is easier than doing something about it.  Wow, just dropped to 129!!!   I wish someone would create a pollution life calculator.  200-days in 100 or above readings means you will be sick for 10-years and die 10-years earlier.  I wonder if that would do anything to anyone?  

[cerox]

22 pm2.5 around my building. AQI at 71. Opened the windows without a mask after 2 days 555

 

Maybe you create the calculator since it is so important for you ????

Perhaps you could calculate whether I survive until Feb 6th when I leave 555

[CGW]

18 hours ago, dcnx said:

All of my neighbors are wealthy Thais.

My neighbours are also far from poor, we call them the "arsonists" young, smart and stupid, lack of education can't be blamed, must be bio terrorists or lazy pyromaniacs?

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, Ventenio said:

Another day of more air that saturates our body, slowing killing us all.  I've decided if you don't leave at 150 readings, you are not leaving over pollution.   Because then you have already admitted that you can allow your body to breathe the toxic air, so continuing to do so is easier than doing something about it.  Wow, just dropped to 129!!!   I wish someone would create a pollution life calculator.  200-days in 100 or above readings means you will be sick for 10-years and die 10-years earlier.  I wonder if that would do anything to anyone?  

There is an app that tells you what the AQI is and how many cigarettes you essentially smoke. It puts things into perspective. 

[cerox]

Please share that app, would be interesting to see.

But that AQI to cigarette ratio surely means 100% exposure like Thai-style open-windows right?

Another thing I was thinking about because of all the scaremongering here:

- "normal" AQI 75 - two days outside

- higher AQI 150 - one day outside

As a non-expert, am I wrong to think it is the same?

[Ventenio]

Estimates suggest that up to 11,000 deaths from heart and circulatory disease are attributable to particulate air pollution in the UK every year. A rising and ageing population means this could result in 160,000 deaths by 2030.

-------

 

Now imagine how much WORSE it is here...... but i'm sure everyone here values their health.  We must act now!!!  lol.  OK, back to your beer.....and don't say I didn't try to save you.  

[Ventenio]

Almost 200 today!!!!   How's everyone doing?   How's retirement?  You know what that American singer says, "you gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em".

 

It's time to fold em...... Oh wait, next week all green for the next 100-years.  OK, stay!!!  5555

[Capacitor]

1 hour ago, Ventenio said:

Almost 200 today!!!!

Yeah, can barely make out the mountain, pretty horrendous for mid-January.

 

Imagine tourism is taking a massive hit this year in CM. Normally I'd stick around until March but am out of here February 1st instead -- shaping up to be a burning season for the ages...

[vivid]

 

Not in CM, but peaks of 365 for today

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by vivid

[dcnx]

Boggles the mind to see so many people outside today without a mask.

[brewsterbudgen]

4 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Boggles the mind to see so many people outside today without a mask.

Some people still smoke cigarettes, take drugs, eat a bad diet, don't exercise and drink alcohol to excess!  Taking a fatalistic approach to life's dangers isn't really unusual.

[cerox]

Thais have a build-in pm2.5 filter in their lungs. That is why most never wear a mask.

For the foreigners I saw today I think most are tourists and do not understand it. Others do not mind.

For me another indoors day but this way I get things done this month 5555

 

I noticed the air purifier struggles to keep up green air (below 10 PM2.5) and I have to put it into health / strong mode several times a day. Those who plan to be here after February, I would advise to think about that. One small device seems to be insufficient if the levels get higher.

[dcnx]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Some people still smoke cigarettes, take drugs, eat a bad diet, don't exercise and drink alcohol to excess!  Taking a fatalistic approach to life's dangers isn't really unusual.

This is true.