Why are more & more expats leaving Thailand?

[mrmicbkktxl]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You post is quite difficult to read, because there are too many deleted words

the deleted words are "excrement '

[The Theory]

17 minutes ago, legend49 said:

the Thai guy saying the policies are really useless, we have to get permission for each treatment and it can take days , sometimes its ok and others its a no go"

The immigration just don't care Who pays for hospital or who does not. They just want you to have that policy by their qualified insurer at the time of visa renewal. 

[wwest5829]

21 minutes ago, legend49 said:

Interesting the new medical insurance for Visa O-A tourists is already a problem. I was just at a private hospital in Chiang Mai getting a review of my treatment plan. Next to me are 2 French tourists, husband in a lot of pain , maybe appendicitis as he keeps holding that area. Lots of discussion with medical staff. Then these 2 Thais dressed in black turn up, they are the hospitals insurance agents. They discuss this couples Thai insurance policy " I hear the Thai guy saying the policies are really useless, we have to get permission for each treatment and it can take days , sometimes its ok and others its a no go". The wife says if she calls France maybe their French insurance can help. They all look bewildered as husband grimaces in pain" So maybe people are worried where this medical insurance is going and not working as the spin doctors tell us. I ask the people in black my monthly pharmacy bill is 17,000 baht is there a Thai medical insurance that would pay it; answer was no. Oh just to add salt into my wound I am untouchable for medical insurance at 70 years age.

I also have an issue with the NON IMM O-A medical insurance requirement. 5 by-passes in US (still working so insurance paid all but $1000.00). Then heart attack in Chiang Mai 2015 (insurance paid $5000 USD, I paid balance out of pocket. Any insurance company would exclude heart/circulation from payment under the policy so any policy with the 40k (outpatient) ... 400k (Inpatient) would not pay the bill anyway. That and, as you say, over 70 (I am 72 in one month).

[CM Dad]

18 hours ago, RyanWalker said:

Mostly yes

I am a long-term American - I have been here for more than thirty years - and I have had friends leave during this past year.  Only one of them is an American, all of the others, more than a dozen, who have gone are either British, Australian, or European, with one Canadian.  The American and Canadian left because of the insurance issues - they are both over seventy - and they took their Thai wives with them.  The others left mainly due, as several said, to "...the constant hassles of living here", and the exchange rate.  Why do I stay?  I chose Thailand as the place I wanted to live.  I have worked and paid taxes here for many years although I am now retired.  I have a Thai family.  I speak Thai and want my children to share my love for Thailand.  That said, if it were just my wife and I, or if my children were all grown and on their own - my youngest is in secondary school - I too would seriously be looking elsewhere, though probably not America, perhaps a neighboring country.

[theonetrueaussie]

18 hours ago, Tagged said:

30 friends? Is these friends trough work or is it mostly expats on pention? since you say visa problem, I guess they did not have enough resourches to continue to live in paradise. 

 

Where did they go? 

I would say I have lost over 50 friends in the last 12 months, Mostly 25-50 age range and all because of visa and the high price of the THB. Not knowing if you will be denied entry when entering and the fact that it is far easier and cheaper to live and get visas in nearby countries made the decision easy for them and I will follow once my visa is up later this year too.

[Caine]

I think most are leaving because they have finally realised what, horribly nasty racist people they have to deal with on a daily basis. Land of Smiles don't make me laugh.

[mrmicbkktxl]

4 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

I am a long-term American - I have been here for more than thirty years - and I have had friends leave during this past year.  Only one of them is an American, all of the others, more than a dozen, who have gone are either British, Australian, or European, with one Canadian.  The American and Canadian left because of the insurance issues - they are both over seventy - and they took their Thai wives with them.  The others left mainly due, as several said, to "...the constant hassles of living here", and the exchange rate.  Why do I stay?  I chose Thailand as the place I wanted to live.  I have worked and paid taxes here for many years although I am now retired.  I have a Thai family.  I speak Thai and want my children to share my love for Thailand.  That said, if it were just my wife and I, or if my children were all grown and on their own - my youngest is in secondary school - I too would seriously be looking elsewhere, though probably not America, perhaps a neighboring country.

well which neighboring country?

[thaikahuna]

Thailand is no longer the good deal it was say 15 years ago. Visas have become increasingly more difficult to get or more accurately, time consuming over paperwork minutia. The baht has been all over the chart and again below 30 to 1 (USD). Now the controversy over the TM-30, health insurance and an all out bid to rid the country of all but the biggest spenders is taking a toll. I have had a number of friends leave in the last year and one had been here over 25 years.  

[tomauasia]

All of the above. But l did leave and now l realise the quality and exciting ventures is still in Thailand. I are returning and the army can't last forever surely.  For me it's the best place for a farang 

[robertson468]

Interesting, but I see there is no mention that one issue people dislike is CHANGE.  Particularly the older the person is.  Secondly, many have been abusing the Visa System for many years and rightly, the Government has tightened it up and now the swindlers can no longer duck and dive to get illegal Visas.  The Country belongs to the Thais and we are visitors and have no devine right to live here.  Just the same as Visas to the UK and USA are difficult to get for Thais!  I have been here now for 15 years and seen many changes, including the departure of many dodgy characters who I would not give the time of day to.  For those who follow the laws of Thailand...........Welcome.  For those who try to fiddle the system, please take you dishonest life styles elsewhere.

[bkk6060]

Why?

 

Can't afford it I guess.

 

But, seems fake information and negativity.  I know of noone who has left.  On the contrary, new guys are coming from recent introductions.

[Salerno]

I just want to know where you get 50 or even 30 friends from ????‍♂️

Other than FaceBook and other <deleted>.

 

[Gecko123]

5 hours ago, Colabamumbai said:

More talkin than walkin.

Fair enough and not saying there isn't a fair amount of truth in your comment, but just want to point out a couple of things which I think need to be taken into consideration.

 

The financial ground has shifted under our collective feet during the past 10 years. After the Great Recession all we heard about was how central banks were deathly afraid of deflation and were slashing interest rates in order to stimulate the economy. We also heard regular alarm bells from financial planners that large percentages of retirees and near retirees had next to no savings and would likely be highly dependent on government entitlement programs. This created the impression that prices back home were only increasingly modestly, if at all, and that even if you had next to no savings and were highly dependent on government entitlement programs, this was somehow still do-able. What could easily have been overlooked in the process is that government reports on inflation were only measuring a basket of consumer goods, not assets like real estate or stock shares. With interest rates suppressed by monetary policy, money has poured into asset classes like real estate and stock shares. This has grossly distorted the cost of housing in many Western countries. Not only that, an increasingly large percentage of real estate sales of single family dwellings are being purchased by non-owner occupied investors which is putting additional pressure on real estate purchase and rental prices. Someone considering repatriation after a long stint in Thailand, could easily find themselves priced out of the locale were they had previously lived. This means that they will likely be under pressure to repatriate to a region less familiar to them, and in many cases they may discover that repatriation back to their country of origin has become a foreclosed option, further complicating their plans.

 

For example, according to US Department of Labor 2018 statistics, the average American over 65 lives on $4125/mo or $49,500/yr. How many expats who have been here for an extended period of time could sustain that level of expenditure? My point is that if the cost of living in the West had continued to gradually increase at the same historical rates we were accustomed to in the past, repatriation back home would probably be a lot easier and I suspect more people would be exercising that option than currently is the case.

 

The take-away lessons I have learned in the process of evaluating repatriation are that the rules of the game for becoming an ex-pat have changed. There are hidden uncertainties about the future which need to be factored in. Keeping open a viable option of returning to your country of origin for the duration of your life is not something which should be relinquished without extremely careful consideration of potential scenarios, i.e., changes in medical or life circumstances. Even though the value of keeping this option open may not become apparent until you reach an advanced stage of life, and indeed may never become necessary, it's an option, in my opinion, which in today's world needs to be kept open whenever possible.

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by Gecko123

[mrmicbkktxl]

22 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Interesting, but I see there is no mention that one issue people dislike is CHANGE.  Particularly the older the person is.  Secondly, many have been abusing the Visa System for many years and rightly, the Government has tightened it up and now the swindlers can no longer duck and dive to get illegal Visas.  The Country belongs to the Thais and we are visitors and have no devine right to live here.  Just the same as Visas to the UK and USA are difficult to get for Thais!  I have been here now for 15 years and seen many changes, including the departure of many dodgy characters who I would not give the time of day to.  For those who follow the laws of Thailand...........Welcome.  For those who try to fiddle the system, please take you dishonest life styles elsewhere.

Visa for the USA is not difficult to get,if they fulfill the requirements,on top of that once they have a visa they can work,buy houses etc.Just by the way I think comparing visa requirements of a 1st and 3rd world country makes no sense

[BigStar]

[wwest5829]

38 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

Interesting, but I see there is no mention that one issue people dislike is CHANGE.  Particularly the older the person is.  Secondly, many have been abusing the Visa System for many years and rightly, the Government has tightened it up and now the swindlers can no longer duck and dive to get illegal Visas.  The Country belongs to the Thais and we are visitors and have no devine right to live here.  Just the same as Visas to the UK and USA are difficult to get for Thais!  I have been here now for 15 years and seen many changes, including the departure of many dodgy characters who I would not give the time of day to.  For those who follow the laws of Thailand...........Welcome.  For those who try to fiddle the system, please take you dishonest life styles elsewhere.

I would add the caveat that once the US Visa is granted, there is no restriction of your freedom of movement nor requirement to report your address. I think this also holds true of the front end demonstrating who are able to support your visit to the USA. I did the same, plus the clear police record and medical record when I applied for the O-A Visa for retiring in Thailand 8 years ago.

Edited January 2, 2020 by wwest5829

[Tofer]

2 hours ago, Christie Paul said:

Working illegally online ?

 

I just don't see the harm in it. 

 

To the contrary, if they earn from abroad and spend here, the beneficiary is where they spend. 

 

Furthermore, because of such policies Thailand loses out to many countries which welcome such people and thrive because of it. 

That's as maybe, but they're still working illegally and manipulating the immigration laws.

 

I don't make the laws, but they do exist, and should be respected.

 

Don't like it, off you go then.

 

Then when Thailand disappears of the face of the earth due to the loss of your input, you can come back and tell us 'I told you so'....

[kevin612]

The main reason is Thailand is no longer affordable, period.

[gamesgplayemail]

21 hours ago, RyanWalker said:

So, I stayed in Thailand for 8 years. I stayed in Bkk. I made many friends over the years and had a couple of relationships. I got married in China, and moved to China as a result. 

 

I stop reading after this. A champion who lives in BKK and then marry a Chinese to move to China can only be an olympic one ❤️

 

Anyway, please keep leaving guys, the less we are here the more Thai will understand our value ❤️

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2020 by gamesgplayemail

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, kevin612 said:

The main reason is Thailand is no longer affordable, period.

 

 

The main reason is Thailand is no longer affordable, for some, period.

 

 

For the rest of us, we can afford to stay if we so choose.

 

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, SteveK said:

The ex-pat exodus in Thailand is ongoing. Was this the intention of the xenophobic military junta? Almost certainly. Maybe they're not as thick as you think.

"Maybe they're not as thick as you think."  They are just typical Thais with a third world mentality trying to run a third world country.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, RyanWalker said:

You know there is zero reporting for me on my marriage visa. Got a 2 year visa and have no reporting to do. The 3 month reporting in Thailand is a joke! For what reason they have that, I'd really like to know

They just love to have authority, and we are the obvious targets. What other country makes expats do reporting, 90 days or otherwise?

[ICELANDMAN]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

You post is quite difficult to read, because there are too many deleted words

Because I suppose he is very angry with Thailand

 

 

[ICELANDMAN]

3 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

I love Chinese women but having visited several times, and knowing the government, I'd never live there. Overcrowded, gov't surveillance, polluted, bad food (trips to the bathroom every time), noisy and everything is heavily censored. Have to play a lot of anti-Great Firewall games just to read my NY Times. I'd settle for a gf in the Philippines or Chiang Mai (and disappear every burn season). Probably the latter, because the internet in the Philippines is a joke. I had a serious gf in Saigon too--Vietnam might be the best bet and also with the most beautiful women.

I agree but why Vietnam if you not like communist country or there the communist systeme is different  ?

[Jane Dough]

Absolutely none of my friends have left.

 

Mind you, I don't have any friends. 

 

Rooster

[ICELANDMAN]

2 hours ago, The Theory said:

The immigration just don't care Who pays for hospital or who does not. They just want you to have that policy by their qualified insurer at the time of visa renewal. 

This because the name is scam insurance.

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, RyanWalker said:

Men, they all know mate lol

I never knew until long after I came to Thailand.

[The Deerhunter]

21 hours ago, Tagged said:

30 friends? Is these friends trough work or is it mostly expats on pention? since you say visa problem, I guess they did not have enough resourches to continue to live in paradise. 

 

Where did they go? 

I had enough monthly money to show my embassy until the baht went silly.  Then, when the embassy writes "from rents and investments" Immigration asks to see 80k in the bank, as well as the letter -  ON, not FROM 01/April/19.  i.e every month from April 2018 and the law was only changed in late 2018.   Also, a real hot 2019 in my 6th year plus getting bored with the road toll and Uncle Dtu.  And nerves after so many bad medical experiences here even in the best hospitals made me go home 5 months ago.  My Thai wife followed me here as soon as she could clear up some business & property matters.  We are both happy to be back home in a different form of Paradise.  Many would like to go home but are trapped here by circumstances, family, or lack of economic future if they go home. 

[allenberg]

15 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

It's hilarious the amount of winging that goes on on these forums about the inadequacies of Thailand. The moment the government starts to enforce the rules... the whiners/wingers are the first to cry foul. Are all of the changes good? Absolutely not, TM30 comes to mind, but many of the changes like requiring health insurance, check points for license and helmets, littering at beaches, just to name a few are good progress. Whiners I think just like to whine. 

Yes, whinging about the inadequacies of TH is BAD.

However, whining about the whingers who whine is GOOD...Not!

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

I had enough monthly money to show my embassy until the baht went silly.  Then, when the embassy writes "from rents and investments" Immigration asks to see 80k in the bank, as well as the letter -  ON, not FROM 01/April/19.  i.e every month from April 2018 and the law was only changed in late 2018.   Also, a real hot 2019 in my 6th year plus getting bored with the road toll and Uncle Dtu.  And nerves after so many bad medical experiences here even in the best hospitals made me go home 5 months ago.  My Thai wife followed me here as soon as she could clear up some business & property matters.  We are both happy to be back home in a different form of Paradise.  Many would like to go home but are trapped here by circumstances, family, or lack of economic future if they go home. 

I for my self, keep one foot in my homecountry and one in Thailand. Will make the same possibility for my gf so we will be independent from where we have to stay when <deleted> hits the fan. I also keep on working some in my homecountry to not fall out completely. 

 

I think this strong baht was a good wake up call for me in time, before I made the big step or move. However I have always felt Thailand would not stay the same, or Asia will not be the same in future, to much going on in China and on the international level as well.