Bad day at CM Imm: Retirement extension

[Max69xl]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

Maybe think of the monthly transfer fees saved as partial replacement for the low interest. 

 

Say that savings ends up to be around 1% on Bt800K.  Add that 1% to whatever interest the money is earning in the Thai bank...if in an acct say earning 1%, well, you are effectively earning 2%.  Then add-in the fewer headaches and peace of mind factors for your final result.

You get 0,5% interest in a standard savings account and ~1,5% in a 12 months fixed deposit account,and even more for 24 months. Minus 15% tax. 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Tony125 said:

My bank is Bank of America in USA.  My US Gov pension goes directly to it. I then used to go online and do an ACH transfre to Bangkok Bank NYC but we cannot do that now. However  I can do a domestic wire transfer to BKK Bank ($30) and they will transfer the money to my BKK Bank here in Bangkok or I can do a International Wire transfer ($45) directly to my BKK Bank account here.

If you transfer the equivalent to 65,000 baht from the US, using TransferWise, the total fee is $24. 

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

But your Thai bank may not issue you a "letter" saying the Bahtnet transfer was really an international transfer due to the Bahtnet coding and bank policy. 

 

And the bank statement will not reflect international coding but Bahtnet coding.

 

Last year around Oct 2019 I was at the International Remittance Section of the main Bangkok Bank branch on Silom Rd, Bangkok in the HQ Bangkok Bank building.  This is the section that issues Credit Advices (for the main Silom branch and I think also other Bangkok Bank branches across Thailand when the branch must order the Credit Advice from HQ Bankgok Bank in Bangkok.

 

I was at the international remittance section to get some Credit Advices relating to the ACH IAT goatrope, SSA IDD, Transferwise transfers, etc., just to see if I could get them, see what they looked like, see the transfer routing, etc.   Credit Advices relating to me and a family member's transfers.  

 

Also to get a bank letter to immigration listing the international transfers...the letter with signature/stamp....what immigration really wants to see.  This was all for "satisfy my curiosity/for testing purposes" in case I ever decide to switch to a monthly income method...I've used the Bt800K large deposit method for over a decade and plan to continue such...and just to get smarter on the issue.  

 

Anyway, the Credit Advices clearly showed the transfers originated from the US.  Even the Social Security IDD transfers ended up getting Bahtnet coding....BTN....versus FTT.  But in preparing the letter the remittance section would "not" list any transfers on the letter that did not have FTT coding such as the Bahtnet/BTN coded transfers.   No FTT/International coding then it could not be listed on the letter to immigration although Credit Advice show the transfer originated in the US. 

 

Instead, a person would have to go to the intermediary Thai bank to get a letter for those Bahtnet transfers.  It was simply Bangkok Bank's policy the Remittance Section Rep told me face-to-face....don't know if it still is the policy.  But I do know I have read quite a few posts over the last six months where people had to go to the Thai intermediary bank to get the letter for the Bahtnet coded transfers because their receiving bank would not issue such a letter due to the Bahtnet coding....since the final leg of the transfer had arrived the receiving bank via the domestic transfer Bahtnet system. 

 

Policy of a person's individual immigration office and Thai bank is going to cause different results/headaches/challenges for different folks.   But if the person gets International Coding when the funds post to his bank account then it should be clear sailing with few if any challenges/headaches.

 

 

I know about people in Pattaya getting a bank letter and bank statement when having a couple of BAHTNET transfers,and it worked at Jomtien immigration. But I have also heard about people (even here at TV) been giving a paper from their own bank to hand over to the intermediary bank to get the bank letter they needed for immigration. 

[khaowong1]

On 1/8/2020 at 1:44 AM, saengd said:

You have enough funds on deposit and incoming every month to qualify for a marriage visa, I recently converted my O-A visa reason for stay in Chiang Mai from retirement to marriage, I suggest you do the same. The agent who did this for me was Assist Thaivisa, the cost was 8,900 Baht.

I've found some of these agents are really friendly with different immigration officers and can really get things done.  That's my experience.  I would suggest contacting these people at Assist Thaivisa.  

[Roy Baht]

2 hours ago, Tony125 said:

  I can do a domestic wire transfer to BKK Bank ($30) and they will transfer the money to my BKK Bank here in Bangkok or I can do a International Wire transfer ($45) directly to my BKK Bank account here

I'm curious: if you can do a domestic wire for $30 or an international wire for $45, why would you ever want to do an international wire? What advantage is there to doing an international wire? Speed?

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

If you transfer the equivalent to 65,000 baht from the US, using TransferWise, the total fee is $24. 

I just one of your needy posts. 

Perhaps push your chest out in financial forum. The debate about ways to bring funds for home country to Thailand has been done to death. The #1 way is to bring the green into Thailand from overseas and convert to baht in Thailand. Second is using mega transfer companies such as transferwise and OFX. BTW interesting read for those interested is "transferwise vs OFX clash of the Titans"

Skipping down list is the folk doing monthly transfers. Using either of above companies. Surely no one stupid enough to use banks or ATM.

For all folk on what UK and USA call pensions..just have it directed to bank in own country and transfer in large amounts. Couple times a year. OFX as one eg anything over $10k is fee free.

For folk using monthly income it will only get worse. Stick 800k in Thai bank and sleep easy.

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, Roy Baht said:

I'm curious: if you can do a domestic wire for $30 or an international wire for $45, why would you ever want to do an international wire? What advantage is there to doing an international wire? Speed?

I think he transfer money to Bangkok Bank in the US and they transfer the money to Thailand. I don't believe they transfer the money for free,and I don't understand why a domestic transfer should cost $30. Did he say how much he transferred for a cost of $45?

[Pib]

9 hours ago, Max69xl said:

I think he transfer money to Bangkok Bank in the US and they transfer the money to Thailand. I don't believe they transfer the money for free,and I don't understand why a domestic transfer should cost $30. Did he say how much he transferred for a cost of $45?

Domestic Wires and International Wires in the US are generally expensive in comparison to the free/low cost ACH transfer system.  Like even Schwab charges $25 for a domestic or international wire...USAA Bank charges $20 for a domestic wire and $25 for an international wire.  USBank $30 for a domestic wire and $50 for an international wire.   The US domestic/international wire fees at US banks are all over the map....even higher than $50 at some banks.  But you can even find Domestic Wire fees as low as $6 but these are the exception.  And of course some folks with a lot of investments/funds at a bank (usually around $100K or higher) sometimes qualify for free domestic wires...maybe one per month like at Schwab.

 

Wires are not to be confused with a regular ACH transfer (also sometimes referred to as a EFT/EFTS...as in Electronic Funds Transfer System).   Wires and ACH are different transfer systems.   And International Wire's use the SWIFT system, a Domestic Wire uses the Federal Reserve FedWire system, and an ACH transfer uses the ACH system.   And Wires are faster than ACH transfers.

 

Does not matter how much you transfer.....$1 or $100K...the wire fee is the same....it's not a sliding scale fee thing like with Transferwise transfers.   Since Wires don't have a sliding scale fee...it's a set fee....this is why some US folks might be better off using wires to transfer funds to Thailand especially for larger amounts. If using a money transfer service like Transferwise who has a sliding scale fee even their higher exchange rate can't completely offset the high sending fee starting somewhere in $5K to $10K range...varies depending on exchange rate and wire fee.   

 

[TigerandDog]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:35 PM, Moonlover said:

I don't understand what the issue is. BATHNET transactions are clearly foreign deposits and you should be able to get an FET (foreign Exchange Transaction) form from your bank. I used then to prove that some of my pension deposits were authentic.

Moonlover, Bahtnet transactions are not direct foreign deposits. They are domestic deposits between Thai banks. Deposits from some foreign banks are transferred into a Thai bank (usually a branch of their own, e.g Citibank,  or a bank they have an affiliation with ) and then that bank does a domestic transfer to the actual bank account of the person the funds are meant for. Immigration will not accept these even when you can prove the funds came from overseas. That's Thai logic for you.

[ThaiBunny]

6 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Moonlover, Bahtnet transactions are not direct foreign deposits. They are domestic deposits between Thai banks. Deposits from some foreign banks are transferred into a Thai bank (usually a branch of their own, e.g Citibank,  or a bank they have an affiliation with ) and then that bank does a domestic transfer to the actual bank account of the person the funds are meant for. Immigration will not accept these even when you can prove the funds came from overseas. That's Thai logic for you.

Much as I hate to pick nits, you simply can't prove any such thing. You can show that there's a money trail leaving your overseas bank account, and there's an opposite and equal amount arriving in your Thai bank account. But the evidence of a link is circumstantial; it's not proof. Bureaucrats the world over are inherently lazy and want a complete paper trail if a paper trail is what is being requested

[Moonlover]

13 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Moonlover, Bahtnet transactions are not direct foreign deposits. They are domestic deposits between Thai banks. Deposits from some foreign banks are transferred into a Thai bank (usually a branch of their own, e.g Citibank,  or a bank they have an affiliation with ) and then that bank does a domestic transfer to the actual bank account of the person the funds are meant for. Immigration will not accept these even when you can prove the funds came from overseas. That's Thai logic for you.

Thank you for your explanation. It does make sense. However as far as your last sentence goes it's wrong. Immigration did accept my BATHNET deposits when supported by FETs.

 

As I've said elsewhere, there can be no 'one size fits all' policy by immigration due to the varied nature of deposits and transfers in use by their customers.

[john terry1001]

2 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Much as I hate to pick nits, you simply can't prove any such thing. You can show that there's a money trail leaving your overseas bank account, and there's an opposite and equal amount arriving in your Thai bank account. But the evidence of a link is circumstantial; it's not proof. Bureaucrats the world over are inherently lazy and want a complete paper trail if a paper trail is what is being requested

You're right, just showing a paper trail on its own is not always accepted by some IO's.

That's why you can provide proof if needed by going to the intermediary Thai bank (where the transfer entered Thailand from overseas) where they will provide you with a Credit Advice Receipt which is proof of where the transfer originated. And because the Credit Advice Receipt is an official document supplied by a Thai bank it is acceptable proof of where the transfer originated for Thai Immigration.

[DUNROAMIN]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:44 PM, Max69xl said:

You're complaining about immigration when you probably come from a country where your embassy doesn't issue income letters since January 1 2019. Am I right? 

Never did supply income letters, you had to show your official government paperwork for your pension/s attached to a Statutory Declaration that the documentation was genuine. This was witnessed and signed by an Officer of the Embassy. The reason this was stopped as many Embassies did, was that the Embassies are not computer linked to any social services or private super funds to check your income details, so all they were doing was taking your word for it that the income documents were genuine.

This stopped all the bogas claims of income.

[JDGRUEN]

Op - If you want the FTT encoding on International transfer deposits to your Bangkok Bank Account every month - then as said before - Use TransferWise and the Send Code "Funds for Long Term Stay in Thailand"... My FB Group of 700+

Expats has shown it works 100% of the time since last August. Easy to do. 

[flurry]

On 1/9/2020 at 4:20 AM, Maestro said:

On 1/9/2020 at 12:41 AM, Jingthing said:

Are you sure about that?

That seems to be about health insurance for O-A.

From your link second page item (5) is about the combination method.

So you're saying that is gone now?

I'm not seeing that.

 

Oops, I read the Police Order too fast and missed that paragraph (5) specifically allows the combination of income and money in the bank.

 

Chiang Mai rejected my retirement extension this week, using the combination method. I have used the combination method for about 5 years with no problem. This year they said 800,000 in bank OR 65,000 month income. Have other people been able to use the combination method recently at Chiang Mai Immigration?

 

I have a lease on a house, bought a motorbike, TV, fridge, washing machine, ect. I will lose all of these. I also have a dog I would never leave behind. Don't they care at all what devastation they cause in peoples lives?

[BigStar]

30 minutes ago, flurry said:

Don't they care at all what devastation they cause in peoples lives?

No. Next.

[flurry]

34 minutes ago, flurry said:

Chiang Mai rejected my retirement extension this week, using the combination method. I have used the combination method for about 5 years with no problem. This year they said 800,000 in bank OR 65,000 month income. Have other people been able to use the combination method recently at Chiang Mai Immigration?

Have other people been able to use the combination method recently at Chiang Mai Immigration?

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, flurry said:

Chiang Mai rejected my retirement extension this week, using the combination method. I have used the combination method for about 5 years with no problem. This year they said 800,000 in bank OR 65,000 month income. Have other people been able to use the combination method recently at Chiang Mai Immigration?

Are you using proof of income from your embassy or 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank from abroad?

I have heard of them refusing them if usings transfers. Not sure why it would make a difference.

 

[flurry]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

Are you using proof of income from your embassy or 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank from abroad?

I have heard of them refusing them if usings transfers. Not sure why it would make a difference.

I am using 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank from abroad plus 1/2 money in Thai bank. I had my statement from Bangkok BKK Bank. All of my documents were 100% in compliance.

 

They told me the 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank needed to be at least 65,000 baht.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, flurry said:

They told me the 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank needed to be at least 65,000 baht.

They are wrong.

Perhaps call the Immigration Bureau hotline at 1178 and ask them about it.

[flurry]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

They are wrong.

Perhaps call the Immigration Bureau hotline at 1178 and ask them about it.

Thanks. I will call them on Monday.

[sniggie]

4 hours ago, flurry said:

Thanks. I will call them on Monday.

I hope that you are successful in appealing/challenging your rejection. It is infuriating that IOs can, on a whim, cause chaos in someone's life because ether they don't know the rules or just want to be bloody minded.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, flurry said:

Thanks. I will call them on Monday.

Good luck.... 

If that fails, all is not lost, just consider relocating. 

Combination is being accepted elsewhere.

[smedly]

On 1/9/2020 at 7:59 AM, jacko45k said:

It may have been the timing, (ie before the bank updates it's rates this morning), but look closely. I just looked at  Transferwise and their 'Low Cost Transfer Fee', was not so 'low cost' at 59GBP. My UK bank does free 'SWIFT' transfers and the receiving rate in Thailand makes this competitive... just the Thai Bank receiving charge of 500 baht to worry about. Transferwise have put their charges up. 

how much was the transfer that cost 59GBP it must have been close to 10kGBP

 

TW charges more for larger transfers - 1000GBP fee is about 7 quid

 

The big saving with TW is the exchange rate and ultimately how much Thai baht actually hits your account, TW has always shown to be cheaper by quite a margin

[smedly]

On 1/9/2020 at 9:31 AM, ThailandRyan said:

Can someone explain the BAHTNET issue.  I have been transferring a monthly sum in excess of 65,000 baht, from my U.S. Chase Bank account into my Kasikorn Bank account, and it shows up as a BAHTNET transfer, not FTT.  Why would this transfer from a foreign bank account not be accepted for proof of funds for a Retirement extension.  I also can obtain a letter from the State of California's CALPers pension account which indicates I receive a monthly pension in xxxx.xx amount of money for life.  I am on an O-A Visa, and will need to convert this eventually into an Extension of Stay, but still have almost 9 months until that would need to be done unless I leave before the date of my Admitted until Date, and return before that date and then obtain another year.  I originally was here on an "O" based upon marriage but due to a divorce had to return to the U.S. and obtained the O-A visa for retirement.  Of course I do have the required Health Insurance plan required by Thai law as I have lived here for awhile.  Please help me to understand the issue of why the banks transfer now shows BAHTNET which is a TFO, and not showing as a TFN international transaction.  As I read the above if I transferred in USD then I would not get a BAHTNET code but the FTO which Kasikorn lists as an international transaction.  Kasikorn does not show FTT on their lists of codes anywhere I could find.

 

As of know this is what I see on my Statement:

TFO13271-TFO13273, TFO13276-TFO13278
รับโอนเงินจากต่างธนาคาร Bahtnet
 

Instead of:

TFN05027 – TFN05032
น าเงินเข้า/หักบัญชีธุรกรรมต่างประเทศ International Transction
 

your chase bank uses an intermediary bank in Thailand for your transfers so they show up as local deposits, one of the common handlers in Thailand is HSBC - they give a <deleted> FX rate and usually add a charge that can appear on your home account months later

[smedly]

On 1/9/2020 at 12:11 PM, Max69xl said:

Were you supposed to use the combination method and got denied? You mentioned 500k in the bank. Several immigration offices reject the combination method when not having an income letter from an embassy/consulate even if it's officially accepted. BAHTNET means that the last leg of the transfer went through Bank of Thailand. 

it doesn't matter if combo or not his bank transfers are internal BAHTNET and won't work for either combo or income, BB can get a breakdown of each transaction show exactly the path it took into Thailand - he would need one for each transaction

 

The other option is as suggested already

 

Start again by leaving/re-entering Thailand and converting to 90day type O in Thailand - topping up his 500baht to 800naht and getting a new 12 month extension based on bank balance - no requirement to show where it came from and needs to be seasoned for 2 months

[jacko45k]

18 minutes ago, smedly said:

how much was the transfer that cost 59GBP it must have been close to 10kGBP

 

TW charges more for larger transfers - 1000GBP fee is about 7 quid

 

The big saving with TW is the exchange rate and ultimately how much Thai baht actually hits your account, TW has always shown to be cheaper by quite a margin

It was exactly 10kGBP, I live here and use 800k in the bank, so small transfers aren't my usual need.  

Very small savings using TW is what I see, not worth the extra risk of involving a 3rd party. 

[smedly]

5 hours ago, flurry said:

I am using 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank from abroad plus 1/2 money in Thai bank. I had my statement from Bangkok BKK Bank. All of my documents were 100% in compliance.

 

They told me the 12 months of transfers into a Thai bank needed to be at least 65,000 baht.

if your transfers do not show FTT then they will not be accepted - even if only one was BAHTNET (Internal)

 

Perhaps your transfers were all FTT in which case ignore my comment

[smedly]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

It was exactly 10kGBP, I live here and use 800k in the bank, so small transfers aren't my usual need.  

Very small savings using TW is what I see, not worth the extra risk of involving a 3rd party. 

even for that amount TW will be cheaper - you will gain about 1.5% saving in FX rate on 10k that is 150GBP saving

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

how much was the transfer that cost 59GBP it must have been close to 10kGBP

 

TW charges more for larger transfers - 1000GBP fee is about 7 quid

 

The big saving with TW is the exchange rate and ultimately how much Thai baht actually hits your account, TW has always shown to be cheaper by quite a margin

A 59GBP fee equals a 400k transfer.