Denied entry- Second attempt coming up

[MrMilk]

Okay, this is a messy situation.

 

I came to Thailand in Nov 18 and been here more or less since then.

 

In 2019 I had:

 

*2 Visa runs via land to Cambodia. 

*1 Visa run via air to Cambodia.

*1 leave to home (Norway) for 3 weeks.

 

Every time I have gotten the 30 day Visa at entry and after 30 day I go to the Immigration and received a 30 day extention.

 

On my latest Visa I overstayed 42 days.

 

Went to Don Muang on the 28.12, paid 20.000 thb overstay fine, and took my flight to Vietnam.

 

On the 3rd Jan I arrived at Don Muang again. Went to the IO (female in her 30`s). She asked why I came to Thailand and I replied "vacation". She did not say anything more other than "please follow me Sir".

I was told to sit down and wait outside the Immigration office.

The IO (male 40`s) were questioning a older guy. From what I heard he was told to get the proper Visa next time but they let him in.

 

Now the IO grabbed my passport. He flipped through it while shaking his head over and over. The IO officer behind the desk called another IO (male early 20`s) and now they were both shaking their head. At this point I realized it didnt look good.

 

He called me over to his desk. "IO: Why are you in Thailand?" ,"Me: vacation", "IO: You spent almost 400 days in Thailand!" "Me: quiet", "IO: You overstay Visa too!" "Me: Start explaining", IO cut me off, "IO: You can not come here anymore on a tourist Visa", "Me: Start explaining that I am about to get married and will get a proper Visa" IO cut me off again. "IO: Today you will not come in. Go back and get a proper Visa and come back later".

 

I was then taken into the office. The young IO filled out papers before a AirAsia rep came and escorted me to another office were papers got signed and I received a stamp in my passport. Blue stamp with the code 12:2

 

I was taken to the detention center in the basement where I immediately begin to search flights. At this point it was around 1 AM so my options were limited. After a couple of hours I found a site granting emergency Visa for Vietnam. After a couple of calls back and forth with the lady in Hanoi I decided to take out my Mastercard and send $230 her way. 30 min later I received a stamped Visa in my inbox. 

The flight Bangkok- Ho Chi Minh with AirAsia left me another $100 lighter.

I walk to the security showing them my Visa and air-ticket. They call the AirAsia rep immediately. She arrives a hour later and after a short talk I am getting ready for my 7.40 flight back to Ho Chi Minh.

 

Here comes the interesting part:

 

My Norwegian passport expires on 9.7.20.

 

I contacted the Thai embassy requesting to apply for a Visa but was declined since its less than 6 months on my passport.

I have searced iatatravelcentre.com and it shows I can enter Thailand.

I contacted the Norwegian embassy and they say it can go both ways all up to the IO.

 

Since I am desperate to get back into Thailand, got all my stuff in my apartment, girlfriend, about to get married, etc, I am going to take the chance to enter again.

 

Booked a flight Ho Chi Minh- Utapao already.

 

My question is then:

 

*If the air company decide to refuse me to fly, will this happen already at the check-in counter or at boarding? Since Vietnam require a min 6 month passport I can only imagine how tiring the situation will be if I get stamped out of Vietnam and then being denied to fly out.

 

*If they refuse entry at Utapao, will I be held at Utapao or transfered somewhere else?

 

*Will I have the option to fly into Seoul or Norway if refused entry and not being able to fullfill the Vietnamese entry rules?

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by MrMilk

[ubonjoe]

49 minutes ago, MrMilk said:

I contacted the Thai embassy requesting to apply for a Visa but was declined since its less than 6 months on my passport.

That is a standard requirement to apply for a single entry tourist visa or even a single entry non-o visa.

 

For entry to Thailand you only need a passport valid for the length of stay is why the IATA states it is OK for your nationality. But some airlines that are not a member of the IATA have the 6 month rule in their terms and conditions (Air Asia has it).

 

What airline are you flying to Utapao on? Check with them what their requirements are for passport validity.

There are no reports of Utapao being as bad for entry to the country as the airports in Bangkok are.

If denied entry you would have to fly from there to another country.

 

IMO your best option might of been to fly into a neighboring country and enter at a land border crossing. Edit: But they all require 6 months of passport validity.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by ubonjoe

[DrJack54]

OP, sounds like you might be using Vietjet. Pretty sure they require 6 month validity of pp.

Bit surprised you even flew to DM airport..

You should be flying to somewhere like Vientiane or KL and enter via border.

It's only Jan so you must have visa exempt border entry available.. 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by DrJack54

[DrJack54]

OP, in relation to airline. The airline will look in your passport for visa or reentry permit. Not have one they will request to see onward flight within 30 days (most likely). Also check expiry of pp. Think you need talk with airline after which grab a bus.

[ubonjoe]

From the VietJet website. https://www.vietjetair.com/Sites/Web/en-US/NewsDetail/travel-document/ 2689/travel-document

"2. On international flights:

2.1. Passengers on Vietjet international flights shall submit Passport; valid Departure/Arrival documents in accordance with destination country’s regulations. Normally, the passport shall be valid within 6 months since the date of entry."

It also mentions the IATA requirements that show that Thailand only requires a passport for entry to the country for those from certain countries (mostly those that qualify for visa exempt entry).

Thailand is the only country within ASEAN that allows entry without 6 months of validity. I have researched it and Hong Kong is the nearest place that only requires one valid for the length of stay.

 

[ChouDoufu]

sounds like you're planning to stay long time.  don't expect you can get a 'marriage visa' with an expiring passport.

 

renew your passport at the norwegian embassy in hanoi.

[DrJack54]

8 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

sounds like you're planning to stay long time.  don't expect you can get a 'marriage visa' with an expiring passport.

 

renew your passport at the norwegian embassy in hanoi.

Pretty sure OP currently in Saigon. It's unpleasant but he may end up busing it Saigon to Thailand.

Obtain visa exempt at border. With an extension would give him couple months to sort out future plans and obtain new pp in bkk. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by DrJack54

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

sounds like you're planning to stay long time.  don't expect you can get a 'marriage visa' with an expiring passport

Not sure what you are calling a "marriage visa".

A single entry non-o visa requires 6 months passport validity. A multiple entry non-o visa requires  at least 12 months (18 on MFA website) validity.

A extension of stay requires that a passport to be valid for the length it is valid for or they will only issue it up to the date passport expires.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

Pretty sure OP currently in Saigon. It's unpleasant but he may end up busing it.

How would he enter the countries he has to travel through to get here with less than 6 months of passport validity.

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

How would he enter the countries he has to travel through to get here with less than 6 months of passport validity.

So he needs the 6 month passport validity at Cambodian and Thai borders? 

Wasn't aware of that. Thought it was just airline requirement. 

Thanks

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

So he needs the 6 month passport validity at Cambodian and Thai borders? 

Cambodia requires 6 months of passport validity. Same for Laos and every other ASEAN country other than here.

Thailand does not but some border crossing have been know to say 6 months is required.

[ChouDoufu]

21 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what you are calling a "marriage visa".

A single entry non-o visa requires 6 months passport validity. A multiple entry non-o visa requires  at least 12 months (18 on MFA website) validity.

A extension of stay requires that a passport to be valid for the length it is valid for or they will only issue it up to the date passport expires.

how will he get in without a visa?  don't embassies require 6 months validity to issue one?  and coming in air or land, with 400 days in country and a denial stamp?  even if an airline will normally transport with less than 6 months remaining, surely that stamp will cause problems.  they don't wanna be on the hook for flying him back to vietnam which is likely.  aren't all the airports computerized and linked now?  he needs a 'proper' visa, right?

 

'marriage visa' would be whatever visa or extension of stay based on marriage -- that he apparently can't get with an expiring passport.  seems getting a new passport --and a proper visa -- in vietnam would reduce the stress factor immensely.

Edited January 19, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[MrMilk]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

 

I fly with Vietjet.

Been in contact with them via phone and the lady I spoke to was not sure. After some back and forth she concluded "No, probaly not". I sent 2 emails, but 4 days later I still havent received a reply.

From reading their TC it say "normally" require 6 months which made me decide to just book the ticket and take the risk of being turned down. Its only 1600 thb and defiently the easiest/cheapest option to try to get to Thailand.

 

If I get denied to fly, will this happen at check-in (before immigration) , or can it happen at boarding (after immigration)?

 

If its before immigration then no worries, 1600 thb lighter but thats all too. If it happens after immigration I assume it can get quiet messy and expensive.

 

I contacted the embassy in Hanoi the first week here. I was told 2-3 weeks wait until the passport would arrive. I also had to wait for almost 1 week to get an appointment (consular hours). 

This again would mean around a month in Vietnam, and still I wouldnt be sure if I received the passport before my Visa expired.... 

 

The passport will be renew in Bangkok (If I get there).

 

Seems overly risky to leave Vietnam with bus. Stuck in between immigration in Vietnam and Cambodia with a expired passport sounds unsafe. 

Also if I get entry to Cambodia from Vietnam, but then refused entry in Thailand, I will once again stand at immigration in Cambodia needing a entry stamp.

Sounds pricy and unsafe.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by MrMilk

[MrMilk]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

How would he enter the countries he has to travel through to get here with less than 6 months of passport validity.

Correct. From all the information I have gathered the only option for me seems to be South Korea, Japan, or out of Asia, if refused in Thailand

Edited January 19, 2020 by MrMilk

[MrMilk]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

OP, in relation to airline. The airline will look in your passport for visa or reentry permit. Not have one they will request to see onward flight within 30 days (most likely). Also check expiry of pp. Think you need talk with airline after which grab a bus.

I only have a return ticket to Ho Chi Minh on the 25th Jan that I purchased before my bounce-back trip ????

Edited January 19, 2020 by MrMilk

[BritTim]

What a mess!

 

I do not think you will have a problem with the airline. The issue will be Immigration when you arrive in Thailand.

 

All the indications are that U-Tapao is a relatively good airport to use. With a visa, I would expect you to be OK. However, at all airports, Immigration is expected to screen those requesting visa exemption to see if they are using them strictly for regular tourism. Maybe, you will encounter a sympathetic official who will let you in, but I believe your chances are less than 50%.

 

You have said you cannot get a regular Norwegian passport in Vietnam because of time constraints. I know you do not want to do this, but frankly your best move at this point is to return to Norway, getting a new passport and a Thai tourist visa while there. Then return to Thailand, preferably entering by land.

 

As an alternative, which I think would work ... Ask the Norwegian embassy if they will issue you an emergency travel document (1 year validity) for travel overland via Laos to Thailand. Explain that you will apply for a regular passport immediately on arrival in Bangkok. The embassy does not have to agree to this, but most Western embassies will.

[ubonjoe]

57 minutes ago, MrMilk said:

Been in contact with them via phone and the lady I spoke to was not sure. After some back and forth she concluded "No, probaly not". I sent 2 emails, but 4 days later I still havent received a reply.

From reading their TC it say "normally" require 6 months which made me decide to just book the ticket and take the risk of being turned down. Its only 1600 thb and defiently the easiest/cheapest option to try to get to Thailand.

As I posted earlier that they mention IATA requirements on the this page under international travel.

https://www.vietjetair.com/Sites/Web/en-US/NewsDetail/travel-document/ 2689/travel-document

I suggest you find the IATA requirement for her and print them out to show them.

[EricTh]

Thailand must be 'heaven on earth' even after all the refusal.

 

There is an unwritten rule of 180 days per year for 'tourists' and you have exceeded your stay by being in Thailand for 400 days. If you overstay more than 90 days it is a one year ban next. Not sure whether it is cumulative.

 

I would be surprised if immigration let you in so soon.

Edited January 19, 2020 by EricTh

[MrMilk]

3 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Thailand must be 'heaven on earth' even after all the refusal.

 

My friend once advised me not fall in love down here. I did not follow his advice.

[Timwin]

This is just so insane. Norway with almost 12 times of GDP per capita that of Thailand, the richest country in Europe. Surely would be a win-win for Thailand to allow this guy in but they are treating him like cheap dirt... 

[The Fat Controller]

13 minutes ago, Timwin said:

This is just so insane. Norway with almost 12 times of GDP per capita that of Thailand, the richest country in Europe. Surely would be a win-win for Thailand to allow this guy in but they are treating him like cheap dirt... 

He is treating the Thai system with contempt, overstaying and deserves all the aggravation he is getting.

[Davo369]

I think you've milked the visa system 

[steven100]

5 hours ago, MrMilk said:

Okay, this is a messy situation.

 

I came to Thailand in Nov 18 and been here more or less since then.

 

In 2019 I had:

 

*2 Visa runs via land to Cambodia. 

*1 Visa run via air to Cambodia.

*1 leave to home (Norway) for 3 weeks.

 

Every time I have gotten the 30 day Visa at entry and after 30 day I go to the Immigration and received a 30 day extention.

 

On my latest Visa I overstayed 42 days.

 

Went to Don Muang on the 28.12, paid 20.000 thb overstay fine, and took my flight to Vietnam.

 

On the 3rd Jan I arrived at Don Muang again. Went to the IO (female in her 30`s). She asked why I came to Thailand and I replied "vacation". She did not say anything more other than "please follow me Sir".

I was told to sit down and wait outside the Immigration office.

The IO (male 40`s) were questioning a older guy. From what I heard he was told to get the proper Visa next time but they let him in.

 

Now the IO grabbed my passport. He flipped through it while shaking his head over and over. The IO officer behind the desk called another IO (male early 20`s) and now they were both shaking their head. At this point I realized it didnt look good.

 

He called me over to his desk. "IO: Why are you in Thailand?" ,"Me: vacation", "IO: You spent almost 400 days in Thailand!" "Me: quiet", "IO: You overstay Visa too!" "Me: Start explaining", IO cut me off, "IO: You can not come here anymore on a tourist Visa", "Me: Start explaining that I am about to get married and will get a proper Visa" IO cut me off again. "IO: Today you will not come in. Go back and get a proper Visa and come back later".

 

I was then taken into the office. The young IO filled out papers before a AirAsia rep came and escorted me to another office were papers got signed and I received a stamp in my passport. Blue stamp with the code 12:2

 

I was taken to the detention center in the basement where I immediately begin to search flights. At this point it was around 1 AM so my options were limited. After a couple of hours I found a site granting emergency Visa for Vietnam. After a couple of calls back and forth with the lady in Hanoi I decided to take out my Mastercard and send $230 her way. 30 min later I received a stamped Visa in my inbox. 

The flight Bangkok- Ho Chi Minh with AirAsia left me another $100 lighter.

I walk to the security showing them my Visa and air-ticket. They call the AirAsia rep immediately. She arrives a hour later and after a short talk I am getting ready for my 7.40 flight back to Ho Chi Minh.

 

Here comes the interesting part:

 

My Norwegian passport expires on 9.7.20.

 

I contacted the Thai embassy requesting to apply for a Visa but was declined since its less than 6 months on my passport.

I have searced iatatravelcentre.com and it shows I can enter Thailand.

I contacted the Norwegian embassy and they say it can go both ways all up to the IO.

 

Since I am desperate to get back into Thailand, got all my stuff in my apartment, girlfriend, about to get married, etc, I am going to take the chance to enter again.

 

Booked a flight Ho Chi Minh- Utapao already.

 

My question is then:

 

*If the air company decide to refuse me to fly, will this happen already at the check-in counter or at boarding? Since Vietnam require a min 6 month passport I can only imagine how tiring the situation will be if I get stamped out of Vietnam and then being denied to fly out.

 

*If they refuse entry at Utapao, will I be held at Utapao or transfered somewhere else?

 

*Will I have the option to fly into Seoul or Norway if refused entry and not being able to fullfill the Vietnamese entry rules?

my life is so boring compared to yours ....

[SpanishExpat]

Sorry but who is that stupid to overstay 42 days? I get 1-2 days, as in a specific situation that can/may happen. What most guys forget (and thats especially important for younger guys). Overstay = no chance to get approved for the Elite Visa. Sure there is still the marriage visa, but I will never understand why overstays are seen a mai-bpen-rai-problem by so many guys.

 

At least his passport will be soon be renewed. So no evidence for the mess in the old passport, apart from the immigration database. SETV/METV`s applications will be hassle-free.

Edited January 19, 2020 by SpanishExpat

[FritsSikkink]

43 minutes ago, Timwin said:

This is just so insane. Norway with almost 12 times of GDP per capita that of Thailand, the richest country in Europe. Surely would be a win-win for Thailand to allow this guy in but they are treating him like cheap dirt... 

He shouldn't have overstayed by 42 days, that is not smart.

Edited January 19, 2020 by FritsSikkink

[Just Weird]

57 minutes ago, Timwin said:

 Surely would be a win-win for Thailand to allow this guy in but they are treating him like cheap dirt... 

How exactly is Thailand " treating him like cheap dirt" when this maximum-fine-overstayer has been living in Thailand on visa exemptions, contemptuously abusing the visa system?  

Edited January 19, 2020 by Just Weird

[MrMilk]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

 

First of all I am well aware that I use the wrong Visa. It was the correct Visa in the beginning but as time pasted and things developed with my girl I should applied for a proper Visa earlier.

I am in the prosess of getting married so hopefully it will be in place in not to long.

 

Its not a question about if I will try to enter again now. I am ready to give it a new go and the ticket is booked. The risk-reward speaks for itself.

 

What I do now is preparing for the consequences if it goes south.

 

What I really would like to get a answer to is about the flight. If I get refused flying will this happen at check-in (before immigration) or can it also happen at boarding (after immigration)?

 

If it happen at check-in I can just walk out still having my Vietnamese Visa. If happening at boarding I have a big problem regarding my expire date on my passport.

 

What happen when I try to enter Thailand is completely out of my control. I have all my papers, USD in cash, travel insurance printed, and a new haircut. Thats pretty much all I can do.

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by MrMilk

[Salerno]

Check-in.

[DrJack54]

19 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Check-in.

Correct.

OP, At some airports you can obtain boarding pass (eg Don Mueang with kiosk).  You then can go through passport control. However at boarding gate they check for visa to some countries like Vietnam they check visa or "letter of approval" at gate.

Flying out of Saigon the airline will check everything at check in. 

 

[MrMilk]

Thanks a lot for that information. I will sleep much better tonight knowing this. Tomorrow is a big day!