U.S. Senate rejects Democratic bid for documents in Trump impeachment trial

[Tippaporn]

16 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Everyone has already read the transcript of the call. I didn't read any of the Mafia language schiff used to describe the call. But I did pick up hints of Schiff's language in the Whistleblowers complaint. Which leads me to question if this is a complete setup. I want this investigated further.

So do I.

[WalkingOrders]

8 hours ago, heybruce said:

Really?  Do you talk to many Ukrainians, or are you reading minds now?

I base that on what the President and Foreign Minister of Ukraine have stated publicly in their own statements. I am not claiming to read anyone's mind. I appreciate the fact that you have come around and are attempting to use my comment as an argument against mind reading. Are we in agreement now?

And just in today  straight from Ukraine:

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/prezident-ukrayini-zustrivsya-z-derzhavnim-sekretarem-ssha-59517

Edited February 1, 2020 by WalkingOrders
Add link

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

You wouldn't be referring to the Biden Bragged-about Billion-Dollar Blackmail would you?

Let's see; you posted " The Senate voted to NOT allow documents and witnesses ", and I posted "Ignorance prevails."  

 

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

LOL.  Spare me the crocodile tears.  Trump approved and provided lethal weapons.  Obama denied lethal weapons and provided mere blankets.  What does that tell you?  The Dems propensity to twist reality to suit their fabricated narrative is legendary.

Are you now conceding that Ukraine was, and has been at gunpoint?  You seemed to think the guns were imaginary in your post I replied to.

 

I don't compare to you when it comes to twisting reality:

 

"By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency."

 

"That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles."   https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-ukraine-military-aid-sheets-pillows-fact-check/index.html

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

All lethal aid has been provided by this administration. The aid in question had zero effect on current operations. A fact. I fail to understand the purpose of your post.

Do you understand how US budgeting works?  If the Congressionally approved aid to Ukraine was not released and the funds obligated by September 30 the money would have been returned to the Treasury.  The aid was released on September 11, after news of the whistleblower and phone call came out.

 

Zelensky wanted aid and US diplomatic support that went past the end of FY 2019.  He wasn't just thinking about the present, he was thinking about the future.

 

Do you understand now?

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, WalkingOrders said:

I base that on what the President and Foreign Minister of Ukraine have stated publicly in their own statements. I am not claiming to read anyone's mind. I appreciate the fact that you have come around and are attempting to use my comment as an argument against mind reading. Are we in agreement now?

And just in today  straight from Ukraine:

https://www.president.gov.ua/en/news/prezident-ukrayini-zustrivsya-z-derzhavnim-sekretarem-ssha-59517

I explained repeatedly that Zelensky could not offend Trump because Ukraine's future existence is at stake and dependent on US support, and you demonstrate that you don't understand.

 

Rather pointless carrying on, you are ineducable.

[Ricohoc]

2 hours ago, mogandave said:

. . .
 

Other Presidents that were impeached has all committed felonies. 
 

 

Yes, and that salient point is what created the bipartisanship necessary and garnered public support for removal -- even though there was no eventual removal.  

 

Impeaching a POTUS and hoping for removal with two ambiguous charges -- especially "obstruction of Congress" -- was destined for pure folly. Democrats not only failed to gain partisan support in the House for impeachment, but they had 3 of their own step out of line.  One Dem switched parties over it.

[JHolmesJr]

18 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

 There's an old J. Geils song, "Serves You Right To Suffer."

 

 

"Serves you right to suffer" has been around long before the J. Geils Band.

I highly recommend you seek out the version performed by John Lee Hooker

and Van Morrison....electric.

 

What doesn't change that only the title of the song richly applies to viewers of CNN LOL.

They are now whining like little brats about how senators voted against witnesses

'defying the will of 75% of Americans'.

 

Taking some stupid biased poll like Quinipac and amplifying it like it represents the entire 

country. The intellectual, moral and political dishonesty of the Left is breathtaking!!!

[Ricohoc]

12 hours ago, candide said:

Yet no one contradicted the accumulated evidence under oath, nor did any document. 

Those with hurt feelings who testified, and were asked about their first-hand knowledge, all admitted that they had no direct knowledge.  All who were asked if they were aware of any action taken by Trump was impeachable, they responded 'no' or sat silently. 

 

Since Republicans were not allowed to call witnesses in the House, there were no rebuttal witnesses with exculpatory evidence.

 

It is notable that the bombshell witnesses in the House all provided information that did not implicate Trump in anything.  It is also notable that those who were on the phone call testified under oath that the transcript is accurate.

[JHolmesJr]

53 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I explained repeatedly that Zelensky could not offend Trump because Ukraine's future existence is at stake and dependent on US support, and you demonstrate that you don't understand.

 

Rather pointless carrying on, you are ineducable.

your testimony is pure speculation and relies on the listener to hold you in the same regard

as some sort of divine omniscient force....which you clearly aren't.

Move on, it's over.

[JHolmesJr]

8 hours ago, Sujo said:

It doesnt need to be a crime. 

 

So it's whatever you say it is? LOL

There's a name for that...it's called abuse of power.

Congress should not have that sort of power.

Thank god for the senate...thery're the only thing standing between

Trump and the coup plotters.

[Ricohoc]

12 hours ago, WalkingOrders said:

Yeah  actually before world went crazy the DOJ keeps investigations secret.

. . .

 

It's even true locally and on the state level.

 

No announcements were ever made in the past unless there were indictments.  If investigations went down a dead end and fizzled, I can never recall any public announcements stating the opening of the investigation or the failure to find enough evidence.

 

In addition, warrants (search and wiretap and criminal) are never issued without "probable cause," which requires evidence and an officer swearing to the legitimacy of the evidence under penalty of perjury -- a felony.  This has proven to be a shortcoming of the FISA court warrants over at least a decade. The Chief FISA judge has admonished federal agencies at least twice publicly for their lack of candor and sloppiness.

 

It's extremely puzzling that the FISA warrant initiated with Carter Page at its center resulted in no charges against him -- at all.  So I guess if any of us are talking to Russians about anything, even if over beers in Pattaya, we should be prepared to be the target in a FISA warrant.  

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Do you understand how US budgeting works?  If the Congressionally approved aid to Ukraine was not released and the funds obligated by September 30 the money would have been returned to the Treasury.  The aid was released on September 11, after news of the whistleblower and phone call came out.

 

Zelensky wanted aid and US diplomatic support that went past the end of FY 2019.  He wasn't just thinking about the present, he was thinking about the future.

 

Do you understand now?

Yeah, I am USN Ret and understand budgeting clearly, who are you? One more time, the aid hold up did NOT have any effect on current operations in Ukraine. That means your "what ifs" do not matter. The facts of your possible maybes are overcome by events, or did you miss the aid release?

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

<snip>

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-ukraine-military-aid-sheets-pillows-fact-check/index.html

CNN does fact checking?  LMAO

[heybruce]

48 minutes ago, JHolmesJr said:

your testimony is pure speculation and relies on the listener to hold you in the same regard

as some sort of divine omniscient force....which you clearly aren't.

Move on, it's over.

"divine omniscient force"?  No, I'm asking people to accept that statements made under duress can't be assumed to be truthful.  Clearly that is too much for some people.

[heybruce]

26 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

Yeah, I am USN Ret and understand budgeting clearly, who are you? One more time, the aid hold up did NOT have any effect on current operations in Ukraine. That means your "what ifs" do not matter. The facts of your possible maybes are overcome by events, or did you miss the aid release?

Yes, I recall you stating you are retired USN, which is why I was surprised that you didn't realize the significance of a delay on appropriated aid that extended well into September.  Zelensky knew that aid was at risk of being lost.

 

Once again, Zelensky was concerned with more than current operations, he was thinking about the future. 

 

Did you miss that the aid was not released until after the whistleblower story and hold-up of the aid became public knowledge?

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Are you now conceding that Ukraine was, and has been at gunpoint?  You seemed to think the guns were imaginary in your post I replied to.

 

I don't compare to you when it comes to twisting reality:

 

"By March 2015, the US had committed more than $120 million in security assistance for Ukraine and had pledged an additional $75 million worth of equipment including UAVs, counter-mortar radars, night vision devices and medical supplies, according to the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency."

 

"That assistance also included some 230 armored Humvee vehicles."   https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/26/politics/donald-trump-barack-obama-ukraine-military-aid-sheets-pillows-fact-check/index.html

Anything lethal in this mix? The same Party under Obama Administration that was nowhere to be found when the Russians invaded, but created the conditions for the invasion (Through pushing for NATO inclusion, and interfering rather dramatically in Ukrainian politics-another story), gave no lethal aid , some of their house managers voted against that aid, now stands to condemn the Trump administration? It's farce. Again, these Democrats have simply no shame and continue to dangerously rip the United States apart, all in the pursuit of power at ANY cost!

[MaxYakov]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Let's see; you posted " The Senate voted to NOT allow documents and witnesses ", and I posted "Ignorance prevails."  

 

Do you have reading comprehension problems?

Yes, but mainly with your stuff.  You posted a bit more than what you quoted here, didn't you? Something about a cover-up? Can you elaborate on that for us?

 

Ref: HERE if you get (more) confused.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by MaxYakov

[WalkingOrders]

14 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Yes, I recall you stating you are retired USN, which is why I was surprised that you didn't realize the significance of a delay on appropriated aid that extended well into September.  Zelensky knew that aid was at risk of being lost.

 

Once again, Zelensky was concerned with more than current operations, he was thinking about the future. 

 

Did you miss that the aid was not released until after the whistleblower story and hold-up of the aid became public knowledge?

Its pretty much over now isn't it? An attempt to Remove the President by an angry misguided, blatently partisan mob (which today the leading candidate of which, an avowed Socialist, accused the Party apparatus the Democrat National Committee, of election rigging), has FAILED! Over! No harm done to Ukraine except by the Biden's, and were getting to that!

[JHolmesJr]

22 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"divine omniscient force"?  No, I'm asking people to accept that statements made under duress can't be assumed to be truthful.  Clearly that is too much for some people.

 

The entire house of democrats has been under "duress" thanks to Trump relentlessly

following up on his election promises from day one....despite bone crunching opposition.

Using your logic, none of them can be relied upon to tell the truth.

 

I'll take that.

[JHolmesJr]

Now that this attempted coup is coming to an end....I hope the senate is going to

invite Hunter Biden for coffee....just to clarify what he has been up to in Ukraine and China.

Once his dad gets knocked out, they should call him too.

[Eric Loh]

Like the Capone days when politicians can be bought to look the other way. 

[Tippaporn]

40 minutes ago, heybruce said:

"divine omniscient force"?  No, I'm asking people to accept that statements made under duress can't be assumed to be truthful.  Clearly that is too much for some people.

But people here do understand that statements made under duress can't be assumed to be truthful.  People here also understand that statements made under duress can also be assumed to be exactly that . . . truthful.  You, though, insist that Zelensky was under duress and did indeed lie and state it as "fact."  Those are your assumptions, not facts, which you believe to be true (for which you have zero evidence whatsoever but choose to believe only because they fit your desired and biased narrative) and so because others don't believe your assumptions to be true you accuse those pathetic disbelievers of failing to understand.

 

Oh, the twisted logic.

[Tippaporn]

14 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Like the Capone days when politicians can be bought to look the other way. 

Yeah, but Biden didn't just look the other way.  He collected his sizable "consulting" fee as well.

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yeah, but Biden didn't just look the other way.  He collected his sizable "consulting" fee as well.

So please tell us what wrongdoing and what crime Hunter committed.  If you have none, you just smearing. 

[WalkingOrders]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

"divine omniscient force"?  No, I'm asking people to accept that statements made under duress can't be assumed to be truthful.  Clearly that is too much for some people.

We have all read the transcript.

 

Forgive me for being one who simply sees no evidence of this duress. I have read the transcript, witnessed both President's discussing the call, watched witnesses of the call give testimony.

 

This idea of duress is a supposition made to backfit into a narrative.

 

What if immediately following the call, or even once the whistleblowers complaint went public, Zelensky immediately went public and immediately claimed he was indeed under Duress?

 

Many in both countries would have doubted him wouldnt they? Why? Because he would be saying that his behavior on a call with the President of the United States was not truthful, and that in his subsequent characterizations he was lying. It would also be brought up that in subsequent meetings between high level officials no claims of duress were brought up, or claimed.

 

How could Zelensky explain such behavior, acting "happy" while under duress? You are asking me, and everyone here that your theory, that President Z, and his high level Ministers have partisipated in an elaborate lie to hide their true feelings of Duress.

 

You also must have me believe that despite no malice apparent in the call transcript, that Trump was behaving malevelently in plain sight of everyone. Another acting show.

 

If I do not accept these suppositions of yours, based on a general notion of how people behave under duress, despite no evidence of duress, you claim something is wrong with my reasoning. I doubt YOUR suppositions which conflict with the evidence, and you fault MY logic? 

Edited February 1, 2020 by WalkingOrders
Insert word

[WalkingOrders]

45 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Like the Capone days when politicians can be bought to look the other way. 

The only buying I have seen is Hunter Biden being paid. That is the only thing that resembles "The Al Capone" days historical reference of yours. 

[Tippaporn]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

So please tell us what wrongdoing and what crime Hunter committed.  If you have none, you just smearing. 

I posted Bondi going over some of the facts earlier in this thread.  Check out Giuliani's website for more.  This will be just another conspiracy theory turned conspiracy fact.

[metisdead]

An off topic deflection post and the replies have been removed. 

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, WalkingOrders said:

The only buying I have seen is Hunter Biden being paid. That is the only thing that resembles "The Al Capone" days historical reference of yours. 

Paid a pretty reasonable 50k monthly. Didn't see any investigation by the any agencies. However used as a scapegoat by Trump for his personal agenda.