Western expats and tourists a drop in the bucket

[metempsychotic]

Just spent some time at the ever delightful chaeng wattana immigration office (something I have not done in a very long time) and noted that there were very few westerners there compared to other nationalities.

 

By far the lions share were chinese, but I would say that the ratio of white faces to "other" was around 5 percent if even that.

 

watching passports come out for collection, the majority were announced in chinese rather than any other language. 

 

I really think many here radicaly overestimate their contribution or even relevance to the thai economy.

 

 

[Puchaiyank]

True, Thailand has lost most of it's appeal as an Adult Vacation Venue...the current regime has imposed many new visa rules that frustrate both tourists and retirees...

 

Many other places closer to western countries roll out the red carpet...Thailand seems to jerk it out from under one's feet...

 

Let the Chinese and Indians come here and do what they do best!

[thaibeachlovers]

Perhaps most farangs live outside Bkk. It is after all a polluted, congested <deleted>.

[donnacha]

3 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

By far the lions share were chinese

Of course. The Chinese who are applying for special, additional extensions to avoid the virus back home have to visit immigration more often and spend more time there. There will be a disproportionate number of them there for at least the next few months, while most westerners will opt to return home rather than extend and risk getting trapped by canceled flights in March and April. This whole week is going to be a humiliating international rebuttal of Thailand's claim that it has magically few infections.

 

[metempsychotic]

2 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

True, Thailand has lost most of it's appeal as an Adult Vacation Venue...the current regime has imposed many new visa rules that frustrate both tourists and retirees...

 

Many other places closer to western countries roll out the red carpet...Thailand seems to jerk it out from under one's feet...

 

Let the Chinese and Indians come here and do what they do 

adult vacation venue.

 

Why bother with the euphemism at all?

 

And while I can believe the baht, the plague and some visa policies may have affected a drop in western numbers, sex tourism was on a decline already, the internet, social media, accountability pc and a number of other factors are killing that.

 

Young folks arent as keen on banging poor women for money as they once were. They just dont get the appeal. You cant share it on insta or tik tok.

 

And visa policies are not an issue for genuine tourists, its long termers, people who dont qualify for other visas or qualify but cant meet the requirements that are affected.

 

And there really arent that many of them at all. 

 

200,000 maybe countrywide? The numbers have never really been clear.

 

You dont seem to find the same sense of entitlement with expats living in other asian countries as you do in thailand, there is far less of an impression that expats elsewhere feel that they are single handedly keeping the country going. That they are the only visitors that matter.

 

Well I certainly didnt see many of them today, and while it may not have been an accurate representation of the status quo, it was certainly an eye opener.

 

[metempsychotic]

45 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Of course. The Chinese who are applying for special, additional extensions to avoid the virus back home have to visit immigration more often and spend more time there. There will be a disproportionate number of them there for at least the next few months, while most westerners will opt to return home rather than extend and risk getting trapped by canceled flights in March and April. This whole week is going to be a humiliating international rebuttal of Thailand's claim that it has magically few infections.

 

Certainly a factor, but not the only factor.

[metempsychotic]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps most farangs live outside Bkk. It is after all a polluted, congested <deleted>.

Again you you think its all about folks like you.

 

What about actual tourists, they may not spend all their time here but they certainly pass through.

 

And actual expats? Id say a very significant number of them are located here.

 

The majority of the professionally employed population certainly is here.

 

Do you believe retirees huddled in a ricefield with thaivisa on an old laptop make up the majority of western expats in the kingdom?

[donnacha]

34 minutes ago, metempsychotic said:

Certainly a factor, but not the only factor.

I provided one factor explaining the increase in Chinese, and one factor explaining the decrease in westerners.

How many factors were you hoping for?

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by donnacha

[Felt 35]

3 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Let the Chinese and Indians come here and do what they do best!

Soon all gone then....

[thaibeachlovers]

32 minutes ago, metempsychotic said:

Again you you think its all about folks like you.

 

What about actual tourists, they may not spend all their time here but they certainly pass through.

 

And actual expats? Id say a very significant number of them are located here.

 

The majority of the professionally employed population certainly is here.

 

Do you believe retirees huddled in a ricefield with thaivisa on an old laptop make up the majority of western expats in the kingdom?

Real tourists don't go to Chaeng Wattana, except the few extending a tourist visa. Most are on visa exempt and leave after a couple of weeks or so.

Most tourists pass through Bkk, but few stay longer than a few days. I stayed a long time in Bkk, but that was last century, before the skytrain and it was different back then. I wouldn't now. Too dirty, too polluted, too broken, too congested, too expensive.

I don't know how many expats live in Bkk, but I bet it's not near as many as live outside it.

 

Your disdain for retirees living in rural areas says much about you.

IMO most retirees live in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Hua Hin etc, and yes IMO they make up the majority of western expats. Many western expats working in LOS went home after the economic crisis last century.

 

 

[Enoon]

1 hour ago, metempsychotic said:

 

Young folks arent as keen on banging poor women for money as they once were.

 

 

Tell that to the "young folks" in the "Arab Quarter" of Pattaya:

 

"In Kuwait, we cannot even look at a woman," he said.

"In Thailand, nobody cares what you do."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/thai-sex-trade-propped-up-by-sexually-repressed-tourists/7413762

 

You can add Turks and Bulgars as well.

 

They're all mad for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Enoon

[ChaiyaTH]

There is certainly a change, reason it seems empty in western bars/restaurants etc but busy at immigration. In CM immigration it is mostly asians now when I go there. 
But I guess expats and tourists in general aren't that significant, Let's say tourism is down 50% it is still 'only' around 6.5% of their GDP. For expats it must be far far less.

[ChakaKhan]

1 hour ago, metempsychotic said:

Young folks arent as keen on banging poor women for money as they once were. They just dont get the appeal. You cant share it on insta or tik tok

Kids Today!!!!  whattaya gonna do???.......the internet will be the cause of LOS demise....and the Army....

[Yinn]

48 minutes ago, metempsychotic said:

 sex tourism

 

You dont seem to find the same sense of entitlement with expats living in other asian countries as you do in thailand, there is far less of an impression that expats elsewhere feel that they are single handedly keeping the country going. That they are the only visitors that matter.

 

 

IMO they think that way because they buy the sex worker the house, pay for the sex worker kids, pay monthly salary to the sex worker parents, buy land, business etc for the sex worker. 

 

The Chinese, Russian, Indian etc is higher number of tourists, but their culture is not to buy everything for the sex worker. Not stupid.

Usually this people come from USA (David), UK, Australia and Europe. Is famous in Thailand. (Farang)

 

They also believe themself “saving” the sex worker from sex work. So expect all “Thailand” to give them red carpet. But really is just a long sex work contract. Because they expect the sex worker to have sex with them.

If they really “save” the sex worker, they would give house etc and NOT have sex with them/marry them. 

 

They see the Russian, Indian, Chinese etc NOT buy a house for the sex worker, so they believe themself more important for,”Thailand”.

But really the hotel business, tourism business etc the Russian, Indian, Chinese is more important.

 

And for business, factory and job, is Japan most important foreigner, sure. The guy who marry the sex worker never see this, because his sex worker not have the real job in industry area. So many job. 

The Japan company give million job for million people to buy house themself. Is better for “thailand”.

 

 

generally speaking.

[metempsychotic]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

Tell that to the "young folks" in the "Arab Quarter" of Pattaya:

 

"In Kuwait, we cannot even look at a woman," he said.

"In Thailand, nobody cares what you do."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-15/thai-sex-trade-propped-up-by-sexually-repressed-tourists/7413762

 

You can add Turks and Bulgars as well.

 

They're all mad for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Talking about western tourist here mate, try keep up.

[metempsychotic]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Real tourists don't go to Chaeng Wattana, except the few extending a tourist visa. Most are on visa exempt and leave after a couple of weeks or so.

Most tourists pass through Bkk, but few stay longer than a few days. I stayed a long time in Bkk, but that was last century, before the skytrain and it was different back then. I wouldn't now. Too dirty, too polluted, too broken, too congested, too expensive.

I don't know how many expats live in Bkk, but I bet it's not near as many as live outside it.

 

Your disdain for retirees living in rural areas says much about you.

IMO most retirees live in Pattaya, Chiang Mai, Hua Hin etc, and yes IMO they make up the majority of western expats. Many western expats working in LOS went home after the economic crisis last century.

 

 

You misunderstand me my disdain was for you and all others on here who think their experience is universal.

[donnacha]

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

They see the Russian, Indian, Chinese etc NOT buy a house for the sex worker, so they believe themself more important for,”Thailand”.

They are buying the house for themselves too. They live in it. They share their lives with the "sex worker" as a partner. It may not be a perfect situation but I can't help feeling that it is somewhat more dignified, respectful, and safer for the Thai woman than having to sleep with ten men per night. Of course, the elites have never cared about those Thais.
 

 

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

But really the hotel business, tourism business etc the Russian, Indian, Chinese is more important.

Only if you are part of the elite who own hotels.

The farangs that you Thais now so despise were pouring their life savings directly into the poorest areas of Thailand decades before the Russians, Indians, and Chinese were a viable market. They brought billions of dollars into Thailand at a time when that foreign currency was desperately needed to develop the country. It may not be nice to think about now, but their presence over more than half a century was a vital step towards the affluence you enjoy today.

Those "kee nok" expats were also your best ambassadors, endlessly evangelizing the Land of Smiles to their friends and families back home. Watching the military government throw away, in a fit of pique, Thailand's reputation as a friendly, relaxed, easygoing destination has been like watching someone shoot off his own toes one-by-one.

The idea that you could just replace that market, grown organically over so many decades, with one big market, the Chinese (or, when they began to lose interest, the Indian millionaires, or then the Bangladeshis etc etc) was insanity. It never had to be one or the other. I still don't understand why they didn't hang on to their established western market while also expanding into new markets. It was a trillion dollar mistake that has eliminated a genuine advantage that Thailand had over its smarter, hungrier competitors in the region.

Of course, neither you nor any Thai will ever admit that a mistake has been made. You will convince yourselves that the nasty farang have been taking advantage of wonderful Thailand, and embarrassing everyone by rudely complaining about corruption, or democracy, or virus statistics, or air pollution, or other impolite matters that reveal how lacking in Thainess we are. Good riddance to us, the Chinese will take far better care of the Thai people.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by donnacha

[madmen]

6 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

True, Thailand has lost most of it's appeal as an Adult Vacation Venue...the current regime has imposed many new visa rules that frustrate both tourists and retirees...

 

Many other places closer to western countries roll out the red carpet...Thailand seems to jerk it out from under one's feet...

 

Let the Chinese and Indians come here and do what they do best!

Nonsense. What visas changed? Tourists go 30 day VISA exempt, how did that change? 

Expats still need 800k 

 

What HAS changed are the 3 embassies cutting the BS letters and the thousands of scammers given the boot. 

Good riddance! I predicted that Vietnam wont want Thailands rejects and BOOM visa changes for June and desperately poor expats have yet another door slammed 

 

The wealthier expats will have a wonderful life in Thailand and that's how it should be 

[uhuh]

I was at CW a week ago and had exactly the same experience as Op.

Some more observations:

 

90-95% of people there were wearing a mask (my picture was taken wearing a mask). ALL Asians were wearing a mask.

 

I have never seen so many beautiful and sexy Chinese girls (I lived there for 10 years). Trophy girls. Now who can afford trophy girls?

 

They have invented 7 or 8 new forms to fill out. Mostly in Thai, but nothing important.  IO pulled them out of a drawer, told me to just write my name in the field on top and sign at the bottom... she obviously found it more a waste of time than I did. 

 

Blue a/c bus 51 runs from Immi to BTS Kasetsart.

Edited February 25, 2020 by uhuh

[gk10002000]

10 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

I really think many here radicaly overestimate their contribution or even relevance to the thai economy.

Perhaps, but the Thai families, and children and institutions that the western expats or tourists support may have a different opinion. 

[Yinn]

8 hours ago, donnacha said:

 

Only if you are part of the elite who own hotels.

 

Or the thousands workers.

 

8 hours ago, donnacha said:

The farangs that you Thais now so despise were pouring their life savings directly into the poorest areas of Thailand decades before the Russians, Indians, and Chinese were a viable market. They brought billions of dollars into Thailand at a time when that foreign currency was desperately needed to develop the country. It may not be nice to think about now, but their presence over more than half a century was a vital step towards the affluence you enjoy today.

 

I not despise farang. 

The poor benefit more from Japan factory job = productivity. Than buy a house for a sex worker. 

 

[Yinn]

8 hours ago, donnacha said:

Of course, neither you nor any Thai will ever admit that a mistake has been made. You will convince yourselves that the nasty farang have been taking advantage of wonderful Thailand, and embarrassing everyone by rudely complaining about corruption, or democracy, or virus statistics, or air pollution, or other impolite matters that reveal how lacking in Thainess we are. Good riddance to us, the Chinese will take far better care of the Thai people.

 

Of course I will admit if I mistake.

”nasty farang”? You read to much TVF.

Oh, “Thainess” again. You live here? You choice.

 

The OP talk about some guys overestimate important how much. What you think? 

[andrewfenn]

The reason you saw only Chinese is because their country's border is closed and they're all trying to extend their stay. My lawyer was complaining about exactly this just a couple of days ago saying the numbers were all the way up to 700+.

 

Yet another case where people are judging a situation based on almost nothing and coming to the wrong conclusion. 

 

 

[chrisinth]

21 hours ago, metempsychotic said:

Just spent some time at the ever delightful chaeng wattana immigration office (something I have not done in a very long time) and noted that there were very few westerners there compared to other nationalities.

 

By far the lions share were chinese, but I would say that the ratio of white faces to "other" was around 5 percent if even that.

 

watching passports come out for collection, the majority were announced in chinese rather than any other language. 

 

I really think many here radicaly overestimate their contribution or even relevance to the thai economy.

If you are just talking about tourists, how many of them actually set foot inside an immigration office? The majority, with the exception of those extending current visas/visa exemptions, never see the inside of one.

 

Not a very good gauge of national percentages IMO.

[NightSky]

Bah, nonsense, you must have visited on an ‘even’ day. All the westerners usually go on the ‘odd’ days...

 

ahem..

 

????

[Puchaiyank]

17 hours ago, Yinn said:

IMO they think that way because they buy the sex worker the house, pay for the sex worker kids, pay monthly salary to the sex worker parents, buy land, business etc for the sex worker. 

 

The Chinese, Russian, Indian etc is higher number of tourists, but their culture is not to buy everything for the sex worker. Not stupid.

Usually this people come from USA (David), UK, Australia and Europe. Is famous in Thailand. (Farang)

 

They also believe themself “saving” the sex worker from sex work. So expect all “Thailand” to give them red carpet. But really is just a long sex work contract. Because they expect the sex worker to have sex with them.

If they really “save” the sex worker, they would give house etc and NOT have sex with them/marry them. 

 

They see the Russian, Indian, Chinese etc NOT buy a house for the sex worker, so they believe themself more important for,”Thailand”.

But really the hotel business, tourism business etc the Russian, Indian, Chinese is more important.

 

And for business, factory and job, is Japan most important foreigner, sure. The guy who marry the sex worker never see this, because his sex worker not have the real job in industry area. So many job. 

The Japan company give million job for million people to buy house themself. Is better for “thailand”.

 

 

generally speaking.

If the Thai Male would quit dismissing their family...wife and children like old used property which must be replaced with the newer model...there would not be so many needy women sex workers.  You need those "stupid" westerners so that you and your irresponsible buddies can continue to find young naive Thai women to impregnate...

[bkk6060]

The guys I know in Bangkok use agents.  So, you will never see their pale faces at immigration.

[Nyezhov]

17 hours ago, Yinn said:

IMO they think that way because they buy the sex worker the house, pay for the sex worker kids, pay monthly salary to the sex worker parents, buy land, business etc for the sex worker. 

Well Yinn, you do have to admit that a great deal of foreign exchange (dollars/quid/dollars) finds its way to Isaan does it not? Regardless of the reason or the relative stupidity of the payors, werent their shekels worth about 9 billion baht if I recall correctly?

 

Thats an awful lot of scratch in an area where folks cal live on 1000 baht a month. So even if that fact gives an ego boost to the bwana types, shouldnt you be a bit more kind to those guys who chose to contribute a great deal to your country?

 

 

[Yinn]

5 hours ago, Victornoir said:

You write "sex workers" with a sort of condescending contempt.
But these girls without professional knowledge become bar or gogo girls essentially to feed their children and incidentally the parents.
The minimum wage they can hope for is insufficient to cover these needs.

When they unite with an old farang, it is essentially through family solidarity. You know Yinn, sometimes when the two are lucid and intelligent, these unions are revealed as treasures of pleasant life. The young woman allows her husband to feel young, loved and cuddled like never before. No anxiety at the end of month for her and family no longer has to wait for the rice harvest to eat. She can also discover a new world, more pleasant and sweet.

The house bought at the price of a mid-range car is a luxury that many could not have afforded in the West and it is a minimum that it comes back to the wife when she finds herself alone.

 

That said, well agree with the OP to consider that we are not essential for the economy of the country.

“Sex workers” is the most polite way to say this job (I think). Many English and Thai words is very impolite about that job. If more polite word to say it, tell me, I will use the polite word.

 

Sorry Victor I disagree with “become bar or gogo girls essentially to feed their children and incidentally the parents.
The minimum wage they can hope for is insufficient to cover these needs”.

 

How do the other 99% of people who not the sex worker eat and live. How do fat girls, and men live and feed there kids and familys?

Some sex worker have “success” but what about the old one who not? How is there life now?

if you have daughter, will you recommend this job/life? Is terrible. Disgusting. Can you do this job? Allow some old guy to ...... you. You can ...... for some sex tourist man? Ergghh.

 

Marry a sex worker is a farang way, not Chinese, Indian, Russian etc way.

But everyday farang TVF members look down on Chinese, Indian, Russian, but the farang believe themself the best, say terrible thing about other country people. Believe “Thailand” should love farang red carpet, give them special more than other foreigner. Many say should not take care Chinese and Indian tourist, because the farangs not like them. 

 

Becaiuse coronavirus, the Chinese now not come. Is bad for business, not good as some TVF member say will happen. Many say they Happy no Chinese come. 

 

It racism. IMO

 

 

 

[transam]

17 hours ago, Yinn said:

IMO they think that way because they buy the sex worker the house, pay for the sex worker kids, pay monthly salary to the sex worker parents, buy land, business etc for the sex worker. 

 

The Chinese, Russian, Indian etc is higher number of tourists, but their culture is not to buy everything for the sex worker. Not stupid.

Usually this people come from USA (David), UK, Australia and Europe. Is famous in Thailand. (Farang)

 

They also believe themself “saving” the sex worker from sex work. So expect all “Thailand” to give them red carpet. But really is just a long sex work contract. Because they expect the sex worker to have sex with them.

If they really “save” the sex worker, they would give house etc and NOT have sex with them/marry them. 

 

They see the Russian, Indian, Chinese etc NOT buy a house for the sex worker, so they believe themself more important for,”Thailand”.

But really the hotel business, tourism business etc the Russian, Indian, Chinese is more important.

 

And for business, factory and job, is Japan most important foreigner, sure. The guy who marry the sex worker never see this, because his sex worker not have the real job in industry area. So many job. 

The Japan company give million job for million people to buy house themself. Is better for “thailand”.

 

 

generally speaking.

I just KNEW you would know all about the sex worker trade, coupled with your knowledge on farang male menopause...............Yes I recall your topic on male menopause..

 

PS. You a 27 year old Thai lady, what do you do for a living...?