Did the "wai" save Thailand from worse?

[fvw53]

The leading coronavirus expert in the USA Dr Anthony Fauci says people should 'just forget about shaking hands' even after the coronavirus threat is over.

I grew up during the 1950ies as a teenager in Belgium near the Dutch border and we did not shake hands (except may-be if a deal was made between adults)...Later on when I went to work at an office in Brussels (mid 1960ies) I was surprised that at opening hour all the entering male employees went to kiss (on the cheek) the female employees and vice versa.   

I guess this handshaking and kissing tradition came from Southern Europe but I am not sure.

Also when I lived during the 1970ies in Sweden there was no handshaking or kissing : people meeting lifted their right hand and said "Hej" and when leaving "Hej do"

May-be things have changed now but I was not in Europe since many years

Already a few weeks ago I was wondering why the situation in Thailand was not worse - even after the visit of many Chinese tourists in February - and I thought that the "wai" might be a factor.

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by fvw53
typo

[Berkshire]

59 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

The leading coronavirus expert in the USA Dr Anthony Fauci says people should 'just forget about shaking hands' even after the coronavirus threat is over.

Dr. Fauci is correct.  Having been in Thailand for 15+ years, I've grown to appreciate the "wai" as opposed to the western handshake.  But every time a visitor from the west comes, they want to shake my hand.  I'm pretty fit physically and rarely get sick any more.  But the few times that I've gotten sick, it's because of the handshake with some western visitor!  It's a silly tradition that needs to go away.  I don't want to touch a stranger and they shouldn't want touch me.  Thank you COVID!

[fvw53]

12 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Dr. Fauci is correct.  Having been in Thailand for 15+ years, I've grown to appreciate the "wai" as opposed to the western handshake.  But every time a visitor from the west comes, they want to shake my hand.  I'm pretty fit physically and rarely get sick any more.  But the few times that I've gotten sick, it's because of the handshake with some western visitor!  It's a silly tradition that needs to go away.  I don't want to touch a stranger and they shouldn't want touch me.  Thank you COVID!

This "hand shake" tradition is rooted in a very old European custom whereby persons meeting each other provide evidence that they have no  weapon in their hand and that the meeting will be peaceful. I think it was a Viking custom because even the Romans said only "Ave" while raising their empty hand.

[1FinickyOne]

4 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

persons meeting each other provide evidence that they have no  weapon in their hand

same origin for the wai... w/2 hands pressed together you can hold no weapon... the handshake doesn't quite accomplish that... 

[1FinickyOne]

12 hours ago, Berkshire said:

It's a silly tradition that needs to go away.  I don't want to touch a stranger and they shouldn't want touch me. 

I had a friend who always wanted to shake hands and he was never quite well and his hands were always moist, cold and sort of clammy... 

 

There are other people who seem to like to touch my arm a lot when we talk. This I also find very uncomfortable. I used to think that it was a subtle "control" mechanism but one friend offered that it might be an attempt to feel connected... any idea?

[OJAS]

14 hours ago, fvw53 said:

and I thought that the "wai" might be a factor.

Provided that those "wai"-ing each other were at least 2 metres apart, then most definitely, I would have thought.

[Sharp]

A thought crossed my mind that it wasnt going to be so serious when i saw the Covid-19 ( Insurance ) they rolled out at a low premium of less than 1000b-2000b per year for all including foreigners .

 

Based on my theory they wouldnt give us such a low premium if it was to be used or maxed out ( using the retirement nonsense we are witnessing) 

 

Anyhow hope it ends soon eitherway 

[Destiny1990]

Handshake needs to go..

The Wai is way more suitable.

[Dap]

7 hours ago, fvw53 said:

This "hand shake" tradition is rooted in a very old European custom whereby persons meeting each other provide evidence that they have no  weapon in their hand and that the meeting will be peaceful. I think it was a Viking custom because even the Romans said only "Ave" while raising their empty hand.

True dat!!

[ReLo]

Clearly Thailand is safe ❤️

 

 

[Proboscis]

Given that the virus can be passed on through someone passing the salt to another person or people even breathing next to someone, I somehow doubt that the virus will be stopped simply because of a prohibition on hand shaking. THe really big thing that will help in Thailand appears to be the climate not being conducive to high levels of transferance (as per reported words of experts in the Financial Times and elsewhere).

 

That said, all bets are off in air conditioned rooms where the temperature is lowered to 13 degrees and the air is super dry.

[shy coconut]

I read somewhere that one of the possible treatments for the virus was a drug that

treats parasitic worms that is used quite a lot in rural Thailand due to some of the

food consumed there like the fish and crabs in the somtam and also the raw buffalo

and pork dishes.

 

Maybe that drug being in a lot of the local folk helps alleviate the worst reactions to the

virus. No medical reasoning behind my theory and quite possibly a load of old tosh!!

[Brunolem]

30 minutes ago, Proboscis said:

THe really big thing that will help in Thailand appears to be the climate not being conducive to high levels of transferance (as per reported words of experts in the Financial Times and elsewhere).

 

That said, all bets are off in air conditioned rooms where the temperature is lowered to 13 degrees and the air is super dry.

Agree with that, but 13 degrees...where?

The electricity bill must be something.

 

Otherwise, it's not only the wai, but Thai people generally don't hold each other hands, and don't display marks of affection in public.

 

Meanwhile, in the US, there is much worse than the handshake, it is called hugging.

 

 

[NoshowJones]

8 hours ago, kenk24 said:

I had a friend who always wanted to shake hands and he was never quite well and his hands were always moist, cold and sort of clammy... 

 

There are other people who seem to like to touch my arm a lot when we talk. This I also find very uncomfortable. I used to think that it was a subtle "control" mechanism but one friend offered that it might be an attempt to feel connected... any idea?

Quite a few times I have had to tell Thai men not to put their hands on me after brushing them away. Any male touching me makes me uncomfortable.

[Deerculler]

The virus hasn't really hit Thailand and I doubt that hand shaking has anything to do with it.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Deerculler
Spelling mistake.

[tifino]

9 hours ago, fvw53 said:

I think it was a Viking custom because even the Romans said only "Ave" while raising their empty hand.

and so roll forward today, where feudal society still exists

- not having to show your inside hands, means the hidden weapon stays hidden

[tso310]

I did put in a post some time ago that Thais are not very tactile compared to Italians, French and Spaniards who normally greet each other with a lot of contact. Up country you do not see many people even holding hands.

[GreasyFingers]

Well I taught my nieces' son to shake hands from when he was about 7 years old as a firm handshake is the Australian traditional greeting. Whenever we meet now he is the first one to offer his hand. All of my friends greet each other this way and will continue to do so.

Limp wristed and weak handshakes are terrible, and to be avoided. You do not know who/what you are talking to.

[terminatorchiangmai]

True, whenever someone from Europe came to visit me and i got a hug i got a serious flu for 3 days

Now i don't even hug my brother any more when he visits me.

[spidermike007]

It may have helped a little. But what is really making a difference here is the intense heat. Now, we have seen a consistent drop over the last seven days. Around 100 cases a day, four and five days ago, then, 81, then 51, the 31, and now 54. This barely existent virus in Thailand is disappearing fast. It is a small pimple on the cheek of a teenager.

 

There is a big difference between under 600 new cases in Thailand, and 12 new deaths in the past 7 days, and approximately 260,000 new cases and over 10,000 new deaths in the US.

 

I double down on my assertion that the virus appears to be leveling off here. Just look at the numbers. We had millions of Chinese here in Jan and Feb. If this thing were going to explode here, it would have happened long ago. 

 

And for those of you who are skeptical of the numbers keep in mind that they stayed at 100-200 total cases for weeks, before they started ticking up. So, there does appear to be some accounting of the caseloads. Just as in the US, the testing is still limited. But, my assertion of the positive effects of the heat remain in place. Many researchers have done studies, and they seem to prove that this virus thrives at temperatures between 37 and 64 degrees F.

 

In terms of the long term effects of this thing, the economic shutdown is going to be 200 times worse than the virus itself, and the recovery "ramp up" will be long and excruciating. Far longer than they say. It will not just bounce back. In the history of the world, as far as we know, there has never been a deliberate worldwide economic shutdown. It is light years beyond dumb. The tourism industry here will be decimated for a long time to come, and millions will be out of work. So, define the "worse".

 

 

[Thingamabob]

42 minutes ago, Deerculler said:

The virus hasn't really hit Thailand and I doubt that hand shaking has anything to do with it.

What then ?

[Sheryl]

The heat, the sun, the comparatively low population density. This last part is very important and would explain why Indonesia, despite being just as hot and sunny, has more of a problem. It is also what has been NY's undoing.

 

And just possibly the high level of BCG vaccination - this last is under investigation after epidemiologists found that countries with routine BCG vaccination appeared to have vastly lower infection rates. Still needs to be confirmed by controlling for other factors, but quite intriguing.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, shy coconut said:

I read somewhere that one of the possible treatments for the virus was a drug that

treats parasitic worms that is used quite a lot in rural Thailand due to some of the

food consumed there like the fish and crabs in the somtam and also the raw buffalo

and pork dishes.

 

Maybe that drug being in a lot of the local folk helps alleviate the worst reactions to the

virus. No medical reasoning behind my theory and quite possibly a load of old tosh!!

As of right now, it's as good as any other hypothesis going around. The trick is to have a double blind test on two populations to test the theory.

[Lacessit]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The heat, the sun, the comparatively low population density. This last part is very important and would explain why Indonesia, despite being just as hot and sunny, has more of a problem. It is also what has been NY's undoing.

 

And just possibly the high level of BCG vaccination - this last is under investigation after epidemiologists found that countries with routine BCG vaccination appeared to have vastly lower infection rates. Still needs to be confirmed by controlling for other factors, but quite intriguing.

Interesting. I've had BCG treatment for bladder cancer, is that the same? I promise not to go dancing in the streets.

[Sheryl]

Yes it is the same.

 

It is mainly used as a childhood vaccine to protest against extrapulmonary forms of tuberculosis, but as it has a strong effect of stimulating the immune system it has found some other uses.

 

The idea that it may have a protective effect against COVID is based on association only: countries where there is a policy of universal BCG vaccination have much lower rates than countries without it. But of course correllation alone does not prove causation.

 

It is a strong enough association to have sparked some clinical trials.

[Tony125]

I think the Wai is one reason for less infection but also look at the countries having large infection in Europe. Italy---a lot of kissing hugging especialy to your elders    Spain a lot of kissing hugging    France---more of same   Germany not so much kissing hugging

[geisha]

I definitely think that handshake and * la bise*,  kissing on left and right cheeks, has made the virus situation worse. Spain , Italy and lots of south Europeans are kissing each other every day, all the time. I live in France, usually walking down the road you’d usually meet half a dozen people who will *faire la bise*.  Being British, I usually try to get out of this as much as I can, sometimes for ex.you go to a party or dinner and you end up having to kiss every bloody person there ! I walk in, put up my hand , and say hi everybody . No wonder that the virus spread so fast in these countries. 

On the other hand, the scientists say it’s nothing to do with heat or weather conditions, whether there is less or more contagion. What does make a difference is when it’s cold, damp , and generally bad weather ( winter) people cough and sneeze more, and viruses are spread easily. You don’t see much influenza in summer for example.

[Mulambana]

15 hours ago, kenk24 said:

same origin for the wai... w/2 hands pressed together you can hold no weapon... the handshake doesn't quite accomplish that... 

It has nothng to do with weapons. It is as old as one of the oldest civilzations. Excavations for Indus Valley Civilization have revealed many male and female terracotta figures in Namaste posture. These archaeological findings are dated to be between 3000 BCE to 2000 BCE. It has migrated with Indian religions through out the SE asia and as far back as Japan and China where there is evidence of strong Indian religions. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Mulambana

[balo]

I agree, the numbers are lower in Thailand because Thais do not like to touch each other very much.  Only time will tell, but I can understand why some locals are blaming foreigners because of handshakes, hugs etc. 

[SunsetT]

15 hours ago, kenk24 said:

I had a friend who always wanted to shake hands and he was never quite well and his hands were always moist, cold and sort of clammy... 

 

There are other people who seem to like to touch my arm a lot when we talk. This I also find very uncomfortable. I used to think that it was a subtle "controld/oraffection." mechanism but one friend offered that it might be an attempt to feel connected... any idea?

Just a gesture of friendship and/or affection. I tend to do it occasionally (with a smile) if I am trying to subtly criticize with a joke something bad or innappropriate that someone has said or done. Just a touch to say 'I still like/love you anyway' you stupid *@##*! ????.