Moving GF and son back to Australia

[Tingtong2mut]

Have lived here 6 years, 57yo living retired basically on savings and looking at a real possibility of moving back to Australia after all this Covid stuff dies down. Don't have huge money atm, but enough to live for another few years on current cash, and have Superannuation maturing next year which previously would have seen me out living here for another 15 years or so all things being equal. There are a few other factors / incomes etc which I won't complicate things going into now, so please don't make assumptions without knowing the whole story re free moral advice etc. Am looking for someone preferably who may have had recent experience obtaining a visa for a GF. I believe it is a defacto visa. 

 

The visa seems suitable for us, but the most difficult thing is I need to pay around $10,000AUS upfront and apply online, with no guarantees and no refunds should the application be unsuccessful. It also appears that these days you can't make an appointment with Australian embassy and discuss our situation as they contract visa applications out to another entity now and apparently they don't do interviews. If we could talk to someone I am sure they would be able to give us a ballpark appraisal of our situation and if they thought we would qualify. Apparently once she was approved and moved to Australia, all things going well it is a long term thing that normally would lead to PR.

 

She has a child 4 year old from another relationship. I have a 4yo son from another relationship (Thai born Aus citizen). We have lived together full time as a family in Thailand around 3 years and would have reasonable proof of history. 

 

A couple of things that worry me and may be a fly in the ointment, although I see nothing to say these issues are a problem in the guidelines...

 

1) I am still married legally in Australia. Have been separated 8 years, no contact around the same. Property settlement, statement of separation all done back 8 years ago. Just that neither of us have bothered to do the paperwork and is quite costly for me to do from here, but of course I could if a stumbling block. I just don't really want to fork out $2000-3000 for a formality (have no intentions of marrying future)     

 

2) Should I apply now, My ready cash not huge ($80k+) and I no longer have property in Australia. Superannuation due next year which I am not sure if they take into account. As the application can take up to 18 months to be approved, current cash on hand maybe even less if they assess the application then vs when lodged. And being all done online, I am not even sure if they give you somewhere to explain all this.

 

Has anyone been through the process or had it approved denied? Primarily I would really like to know if there is anyone can be contacted either here or in Australia that would be able to discuss / give me some assessment of my chances of success should we apply. I mean I am not expecting a guarantee but I am sure someone would be able to give us a ballpark idea of success or failure. May even be after all this Covid stuff the Aust government may tighten up immigration policy. Any help or advice appreciated

Edited May 1, 2020 by Tingtong2mut

[AtlasAus]

Gidday Mate,

 

Not an expert.... But some thoughts. 

 

1) I am still married legally in Australia. Have been separated 8 years, no contact around the same. Property settlement, statement of separation all done back 8 years ago. Just that neither of us have bothered to do the paperwork and is quite costly for me to do from here, but of course I could if a stumbling block. I just don't really want to fork out $2000-3000 for a formality (have no intentions of marrying future)     

If you have done the hard part, the divorce is simple, done it twice myself, very small Gov't fee. 
I don't think it matters but it would not hurt. 
 

2) Should I apply now, My ready cash not huge ($80k+) and I no longer have property in Australia. Superannuation due next year which I am not sure if they take into account. As the application can take up to 18 months to be approved, current cash on hand maybe even less if they assess the application then vs when lodged. And being all done online, I am not even sure if they give you somewhere to explain all this.

Are you planning to work ? Your Wife maybe able to after it all went through but what about the interim ? You will have to prove you can support the whole family on your savings. And if you don't have property you will need to rent I suspect, how are you going to show the Real Estate you can pay for the rental ? 

It's great about your super, I am same age, waiting patiently, but in the grand scheme it will mean nothing until you actually get it. Also, I think it is about $8K to apply for the visa. Perhaps you should delay until you get your super, mind you who knows what is going to happen in the foreseeable future. 
 

Has anyone been through the process or had it approved denied? Primarily I would really like to know if there is anyone can be contacted either here or in Australia that would be able to discuss / give me some assessment of my chances of success should we apply. I mean I am not expecting a guarantee but I am sure someone would be able to give us a ballpark idea of success or failure. May even be after all this Covid stuff the Aust government may tighten up immigration policy. Any help or advice appreciated

 

A life long mate of mine is going through it right now. He did it nearly straight away after meeting his Lady... No kids involved. He does work though and is same age as us. There are other 'rules' or conditions you need to be aware of, liek having to be in Australia when you apply then Wife having to leave or something like that, it's very confusing. 

 

My suggestion is to reach out to an agent here, I can highly recommend one if you like, have been using his services for over 5yrs. 
 

When was the last time you went home ? If you have not lived there for a while you may get a huge shock with prices of everything, elec, fuel, goods etc very expensive. 

We spent nearly 12 months in Brisbane whilst I had some new knees put in, stayed with family, for like you I have no property, which was ok, but there is no place like your home Has your Wife been there ? My Wife loved Aus, but really missed a lot of Thai things, family, especially food, even though the local markets had a lot of produce we needed. 

There are so many questions you need to ask all concerned, including the kids. It would be a huge change, but the biggest challenge I see for your particular circumstance is the funding of it all, I would be in same boat, so not having a go at you.

 Hope this helps and if you want to shoot me a PM please do. 

[simple1]

17 hours ago, Tingtong2mut said:

I am still married legally in Australia. Have been separated 8 years, no contact around the same. Property settlement, statement of separation all done back 8 years ago. Just that neither of us have bothered to do the paperwork and is quite costly for me to do from here, but of course I could if a stumbling block. I just don't really want to fork out $2000-3000 for a formality (have no intentions of marrying future)     

I assisted a Thai family member here in Oz for divorce proceeding. You can file for divorce online. Current cost is around $1230.00, note the divorce was not contested. Worth checking out and of course if you can do so whilst not resident in Oz. Otherwise it is more than likely your application will be refused as you're not legally divorced.

Edited May 2, 2020 by simple1

[Tingtong2mut]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

I assisted a Thai family member here in Oz for divorce proceeding. You can file for divorce online. A few years back it cost around $100.00, note the divorce was not contested. Worth checking out and of course if you can do so whilst not resident in Oz. Otherwise it is more than likely your application will be refused as you're not legally divorced.

I wish people wouldn't comment if they don't know. I appreciate your advice which I am sure is well meaning but $100 is just incorrect and your statement that more than likely application will be refused I assume is a baseless opinion? I would prefer some feedback from someone maybe made an application for a spouse or defacto visa last couple of years and had some correspondence with the Australian embassy or Oz immigration.

 

The divorce filing fee alone is $900 for starters and it gets worse if you are overseas and your spouse is uncooperative. I can't do it myself from here, would need to get a lawyer to lodge paperwork, attend hearings etc. Starting costs for me around $2000, a simple google search will show this.

 

My main goal from this post would be to see if there is any way the matter can be discussed with Australian immigration, preferably with the embassy or their contractors here in Bangkok as to the possible outcome of an application with our circumstances. if they tell me the application would be better if I was officially divorced I can then take that step. I am sure if I could contact someone from one of these offices, maybe arrange a meeting I could get a first hand appraisal of our chances or what we need to do. Has anyone been down this road recently?

[simple1]

18 minutes ago, Tingtong2mut said:

I wish people wouldn't comment if they don't know. I appreciate your advice which I am sure is well meaning but $100 is just incorrect and your statement that more than likely application will be refused I assume is a baseless opinion?

Apologies, i had already corrected the amount from the Family Court website so we've crossed in virtual time. One is required to submit proof of divorce, from memory the requirement is to met the criteria 'free to marry' which is verified by the Oz Embassy, though terminology / criteria may well have changed since I last successfully assisted someone about 3 years ago. A member who's excellent with Oz visa issues is Will27, he normally responds quickly to these matters.

 

From my experience of dealing with Immi staff they will will not inform of likelihood or otherwise of gaining a visa.

Edited May 2, 2020 by simple1

[rhodie]

A de facto visa while still married? ... Under Australian law you can't be married to two different people at the same time. However under Australian immigration law it is potentially possible to be in a de facto relationship with your partner and have that de facto relationship recognised for migration purposes.

 

https://www.rpmlawyers.com.au/a-de-facto-relationship-and-married-to-someone-else-yes 

 

Just googled and got this first up. Your circumstances are probably in a very small category of applicants so you might struggle to find first hand knowledge. Maybe a trip to an agent would give some ideas and not cost money.

 

Good luck.

[Will27]

You can get the defacto visa whilst being married to someone else, but it's a pain in the <deleted>.

The onus is on you to provide evidence that your previous relationship is no longer ongoing.

 

I know it's (divorce) expensive, but at the end of the day, it's money well spent IMO.

 

As simple1 said, Immi don't give you your chances of obtaining a visa.

 

The visa along with the flights and extra's will be around $15 000.

I'd just get divorced first as it eliminates the chance your application getting refused for

not being in an exclusive relationship.

[AJBangkok]

I think if you were to adopt your girlfriends daughter then you’d have a much more solid case that they would find hard to decline 

[Tingtong2mut]

I have used agents in the past and they simply tell u anything you want to hear. Its not like Thai immigration where a few dollars and nudge nudge etc. They give u guarantees and hint that they have someone on the inside but all they can do is prepare the docs for you and lodge. In the end the only guarantee is they will apply for u again for free if you are denied. Its not a money back guarantee. The decisions are made in Canberra. In this case the application itself is relatively easy and done online so no need for agent to shuffle paper. If I went to an agent and they told me I would get the visa no probs if I went with them I wouldn't believe it anyway. A while back, 5 years or so it was impossible to get a defacto visa while married but they have since changed the wording. I have a certificate and property settlement that says we officially separated many years ago and I would accompany this with a start Dec saying I have had zero contact with Australian wife for at least 7 years. I know I won't get any guarantees but would feel better discussing it with someone. To be honest I would be more concerned how they would view my financial status with no property or job. Mind you I could propably get a letter of appointment to shore up my case. I have done a couple of tourist visa apps for a girl here and application for Australian citizenship for my son and what seemed to be most effective was solid  proof length of relationship backed up with documents and photos. The more the better. Divorce or no divorce I can see myself stumping up 10k Aus$ without talking to someone first. 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Tingtong2mut

[Seeall]

21 hours ago, AtlasAus said:

Gidday Mate,

 

Not an expert.... But some thoughts. 

 

1) I am still married legally in Australia. Have been separated 8 years, no contact around the same. Property settlement, statement of separation all done back 8 years ago. Just that neither of us have bothered to do the paperwork and is quite costly for me to do from here, but of course I could if a stumbling block. I just don't really want to fork out $2000-3000 for a formality (have no intentions of marrying future)     

If you have done the hard part, the divorce is simple, done it twice myself, very small Gov't fee. 
I don't think it matters but it would not hurt. 
 

2) Should I apply now, My ready cash not huge ($80k+) and I no longer have property in Australia. Superannuation due next year which I am not sure if they take into account. As the application can take up to 18 months to be approved, current cash on hand maybe even less if they assess the application then vs when lodged. And being all done online, I am not even sure if they give you somewhere to explain all this.

Are you planning to work ? Your Wife maybe able to after it all went through but what about the interim ? You will have to prove you can support the whole family on your savings. And if you don't have property you will need to rent I suspect, how are you going to show the Real Estate you can pay for the rental ? 

It's great about your super, I am same age, waiting patiently, but in the grand scheme it will mean nothing until you actually get it. Also, I think it is about $8K to apply for the visa. Perhaps you should delay until you get your super, mind you who knows what is going to happen in the foreseeable future. 
 

Has anyone been through the process or had it approved denied? Primarily I would really like to know if there is anyone can be contacted either here or in Australia that would be able to discuss / give me some assessment of my chances of success should we apply. I mean I am not expecting a guarantee but I am sure someone would be able to give us a ballpark idea of success or failure. May even be after all this Covid stuff the Aust government may tighten up immigration policy. Any help or advice appreciated

 

A life long mate of mine is going through it right now. He did it nearly straight away after meeting his Lady... No kids involved. He does work though and is same age as us. There are other 'rules' or conditions you need to be aware of, liek having to be in Australia when you apply then Wife having to leave or something like that, it's very confusing. 

 

My suggestion is to reach out to an agent here, I can highly recommend one if you like, have been using his services for over 5yrs. 
 

When was the last time you went home ? If you have not lived there for a while you may get a huge shock with prices of everything, elec, fuel, goods etc very expensive. 

We spent nearly 12 months in Brisbane whilst I had some new knees put in, stayed with family, for like you I have no property, which was ok, but there is no place like your home Has your Wife been there ? My Wife loved Aus, but really missed a lot of Thai things, family, especially food, even though the local markets had a lot of produce we needed. 

There are so many questions you need to ask all concerned, including the kids. It would be a huge change, but the biggest challenge I see for your particular circumstance is the funding of it all, I would be in same boat, so not having a go at you.

 Hope this helps and if you want to shoot me a PM please do. 

 

[Seeall]

Just now, Seeall said:

 

I looked at the 2 visas of partnership... one from here (TH)  and the other on a visit visa then apply for partner visa in AU ..

after a lot of this and that I concluded it better to just go to AU and apply as the GF can stay untill they decide the outcome... if apply from HERE in TH its around 18 months wait...

 

9k yes ...

Visa brokers look like sharks to me....

 

All the best...

[Will27]

1 minute ago, Seeall said:

I looked at the 2 visas of partnership... one from here (TH)  and the other on a visit visa then apply for partner visa in AU ..

after a lot of this and that I concluded it better to just go to AU and apply as the GF can stay untill they decide the outcome... if apply from HERE in TH its around 18 months wait...

 

9k yes ...

Visa brokers look like sharks to me....

 

All the best...

In a lot of the cases, the Thai cannot apply in Australia as they have a no further stay on their visa.

[Will27]

3 hours ago, AJBangkok said:

I think if you were to adopt your girlfriends daughter then you’d have a much more solid case that they would find hard to decline 

That's way too much hassle and it won't make any difference anyway TBH.

[Mick501]

About 6 years ago I looked in depth at importing a girlfriend from Singapore to Aus.   At that time the spousal visa was roughly $4000 and you had to live together for a minimum 12 months.

 

The immigration website has most info you will need on various visa types and requirements.  If you meet these requirements it will be approved.

 

The tricky bit is getting answers for your questions that are not clearly dealt with by the immigration website.  If you call immigration, it is frustrating and futile.  They are literally instructed that they can not answer questions even if they wanted to and were capable of doing so.  All they are allowed to do is refer you to the website.

 

plenty of agents in Australia, but on your description it sounds like you would be eligible and could navigate the process yourself at lesser expense.

[Tingtong2mut]

17 minutes ago, Seeall said:

I looked at the 2 visas of partnership... one from here (TH)  and the other on a visit visa then apply for partner visa in AU ..

after a lot of this and that I concluded it better to just go to AU and apply as the GF can stay untill they decide the outcome... if apply from HERE in TH its around 18 months wait...

 

9k yes ...

Visa brokers look like sharks to me....

 

All the best...

Unless things have changed, and they may well have obtaining a defacto visa in Australia same wait time and a few unusual conditions one was that your missus had to be in Thailand at the time the Visa was granted. If she was in Australia the day the visa was issued cancelled. Also the defacto visa from Australia was different in as much as you had to marry within I think 1 year or so? And GF can't just stay while she waits. She would be allowed 2 x tourist visas 3 months. If lucky the second one maybe 6 months. After that more than likely denied and she would have to wait in Thailand. they deny on the grounds you are using a tourist visa to reside in Australia. Been there done that.

[Stevemercer]

You should initiate the divorce asap with a view to marrying your girlfriend. It will make things simpler in the long run.

 

It is still possible for your GF to get a 12 month tourist visa (3 month max stay at a time) and apply for the marriage/partner visa in Australia. Once the application is accepted, she would get all the rights of a resident (Medicare, ability to work etc) while you wait out the two year period towards permanent residency.

 

However, sometimes the tourist visa is stamped such that onshore (in Australia) visa applications are prohibited. Sometimes it is not. I am not clear on the distinction. I helped a Thai woman (friend of my wife) get her tourist visa last year and it had no conditions. She went to Australia, meet a bloke and successfully applied for her partner visa.

 

It is always better for a Thai person to make an onshore (within Australia) application.

 

So, get started on the divorce with a view to getting to Australia in 12 months or so.

[GreasyFingers]

1 hour ago, Tingtong2mut said:

And GF can't just stay while she waits. She would be allowed 2 x tourist visas 3 months. If lucky the second one maybe 6 months

This will not help your overall problem but two months ago I got a 3 year Tourist 600 Visa for my wife. You have to ask them for a visa for longer than 12 months and provide them with evidence of exceptional circumstances. I know it will rely on the person examining the application but my "exceptional circumstances" were only needing to possibly go back for medical treatment (me) and sickness or death of my older siblings (true but hardly exceptional).

The 3 month maximum stay and no work still apply.

[Tingtong2mut]

Someone told me a while back there were 12 month multiple tourist visas now but need to leave / return every three months. Out of interest do they need to return to Thailand or can do a border run thing like Thailand, for eg: maybe a flight to NZ and back? Be cheaper and quicker than going to Thailand but I guess she would need to find a country with visa on arrival for Thais close to Australia....PNG?

 

Back about 5 years ago when doing tourist visas for my then Gf was strictly 3 months first application....second 3 months or possibly a 6 month visa if you were lucky. usually consequent applications after the first 2 were denied on the grounds you were using a tourist visa to live in Australia. 

[Ooladolla]

There is an wealth of information on a partners visa group page on Facebook which may find useful. Migration agents often answer questions and give direction. 

[natway09]

"Way too much hassle & it won't make any differece anyway"  Coulda thanked the guy.

Have taken my girlfriend 5 times to Oz & understand how they think.

Two complications , being still married , forget the law, it will end up in the too hard basket,,, a bit like your attitude.

The children create a big challenge 

The money you are talking (unless your super is at least half a million) your life & family far better off here.

I cannot afford to return but can live very well here for the next 18 years anyway.

In Oz it would be gone in 4 years

Good Luck

[hatewaitin]

So my experience is 2 years old at least.

My difference is that I married my Thai wife.

But did look at defacto. When we got married they had just made a rule that enabled couples to register their relationships.

So with my wife when we were bf/gf she came to see me in AU every 3 months on a tourist visa subclass 600. For me these visas were single shot and had 8503 no further stay on them.

I am aware that others have been able to get 3 year multiuse.

Once married and declared I got the next visa and the 8503 was removed.

So when she arrived we applied for a partner visa 801 I think. Once we parted with the cash my wife was issued a bridging A visa.

This visa entitles your wife to remain in AU for the period of assessment.

She gets Medicare and work rights as well.

Preamble. Any docs that you have about your relationship that are in Thai get them translated by certified service. From memory there is a place that does it for a reasonable fee at Charing Wattena.

Your wife is also going to need a Thai police clearance.

Can get you the info on where to go for the police and there is another translator my wife used that were reasonable.

We have been in the Bridging visa now for 2 years so if you think the process is speedy it isn't.

Your wife will also need to get a medical done by their choice it a place run by Bupa.

The part that will make you transfer to AU easy is the fact that you have a child with each other.

I am aware of another person who had a child to a Filipino. He applied after me not married and she now has PR.

Now we fill out the paperwork our selves and possibly it isn't 100% in keeping with how they want it. I don't know as I don't fill out these forms regularly.

The form turns into quite a book and needs many hours to finish.

Reckon we have spent close to 10k without an agent so pretty sure if you engage an agent it will be ++.

 

Happy to help if I can

Regards and all the best

David

[beecher]

You partner will need to apply for a temporary partner visa subclass 309 (I think) when applying outside Aust

it does not matter that you are still married. Cost about $7800. Processing time about 15-21 months

she will be granted a visa if she meets the conditions

has not had a previous visa cancelled

meets the relationship requirements 

meets the health requirements (she will be required to take a medical- was Bangkok Hospital)

character requirements ( police clearance )

sponsor (you) must be Aust citizen and helps if reasonably financial

 

children may be a little more complicated. Easier if your child is already Aust citizen by decent

as was suggested would be helpful if you were to adopt your partners child. Helpful as the child’s relationship with his biological father may be taken into account. 
is visa in the child’s best interest 

It is possible that a you could get a permanent visa on the basis of the length of your defacto relationship

there is no condition that requires you to marry once in Aust

all can be done and granted in Thailand

not as difficult as it seems. 
Good luck

 

[Will27]

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

"Way too much hassle & it won't make any differece anyway"  Coulda thanked the guy.

Have taken my girlfriend 5 times to Oz & understand how they think.

Two complications , being still married , forget the law, it will end up in the too hard basket,,, a bit like your attitude.

The children create a big challenge 

The money you are talking (unless your super is at least half a million) your life & family far better off here.

I cannot afford to return but can live very well here for the next 18 years anyway.

In Oz it would be gone in 4 years

Good Luck

If you're responding to me, I've got no idea what you're talking about TBH.

 

It's a long and convoluted procedure to adopt a Thai child and isn't necessary to get

a defacto visa.

 

The OP has indicated that he doesn't want to marry his girlfriend so I imagine adopting her child

is out of the question.

 

Also, if he did adopt and they separated in Australia, he would be liable to pay child support.

 

 

[davemos]

The regulations are specific .The Aus Gov has nothing to do with the approval process  Its a private company  Quarantine automatic for you both 14 days Guarantees and cash in her account will prove shes a tourist.  Good luck

[Tingtong2mut]

11 hours ago, Will27 said:

If you're responding to me, I've got no idea what you're talking about TBH.

 

It's a long and convoluted procedure to adopt a Thai child and isn't necessary to get

a defacto visa.

 

The OP has indicated that he doesn't want to marry his girlfriend so I imagine adopting her child

is out of the question.

 

Also, if he did adopt and they separated in Australia, he would be liable to pay child support.

 

 

Yes you are exactly right. I would already be opening myself up to a possible raft of issues declaring my relationship as defacto in Australia. I doubt in my girls case there would ever be any issues like that but we all think (hope) like that entering into any relationship. I don't want to complicate things and add a possible paternity case that I could be stuck with for the next 15 years.

 

I would rather stay in Thailand and if there is any chance I can I will. It's costing me around $25k AUS a year to live here now and we live fairly modestly. I really couldn't imagine cutting that back too much and not sure if the future will improve. The way the economy is and has been heading I would have thought the exchange rate would become more favourable but it seems to be refusing to budge. Was a much different situation when I came here. I understand things are a lot more expensive in Australia but incomes are a lot higher also and a lot more opportunities for business, government assistance with my son etc. Its plain mathematics for me and I wont have a clear view until we get to the end of this Covid thing and see where the chips fall. My superannuation invested, and while it has taken a modest hit of around 10%, it may bounce back or get worse. Will have to see. But if I look at my funds and can only see enough money to live say 10 years, providing there are no hiccups, accidents or expensive medical issues I would rather head back to Australia now with some start up money than return penniless later on. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by Tingtong2mut