identifying the "dangerous" bars is very subjective. infections can occur under any and all environment.

39 minutes ago, Canuck1966 said:

1259 puritan junta lovers isn't representative of the country

 

Thousands and thousands of jobs on the line 

Unless you know the selection methodology, you can only have an opinion about the poll. If they are good at polling, 1,259 people is more than enough to constitute a representative sample.

 

Statisticians have spent a lot of time and effort developing their methods and confidence levels. It undoubtedly seems arcane to those who never studied statistics, but just because a person has no knowledge of the methods doesn't make the methods wrong.

16 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

So I'm guessing you don't work in the tourism industry.

 

In 2019, Tourism accounted for 17.7% of Thai GDP, perhaps more if gray money was counted.

 

The tens of millions of foreigners who came to Thailand in 2019 supported upwards of 8 million Thai jobs. It also allowed hotel owners to make debt payments, which in turn helped banks keep bad debts lower.

 

A year or two is okay with you? Those 8 million Thais, hotel owners, and banks might have a different view.

Obviously no money from international tourist is bad. But what is the alternative?

Until now Thailand has very few Covid cases and very very few death. How would that change if tourists come into Thailand unchecked? Do we need to have hundreds of dead people everyday to act? Or is it better to stay alert so that the situation does not get worse?

Maybe just open i.e. Phuket for international tourist - and close them for everybody else. And then see what happens.

We  surveyed 1000 Thais  asked  them  do  they  want thousands  to  die every  year  due to  no  helmets or 54 due  to  covid...99% said  they  didn't  understand  the  question,  the  other 67.5  said  it  was Friday, 3  were to  drunk to  answer.

It might have meant something if they restricted the poll to people who actually go to bars. 

 

And this does not have to include go-go bars. The Thai open air bar, caff, eating house, live music place that sells alcohol and has live music would fit the bill. 

2 hours ago, Stocky said:

Hardly a large poll and one wonders how representative the selection was, then there's the loaded phrasing of the question which posses it as an either or, when of course it isn't. Seems they got the answers they were fishing for.

Break out your university statistics; the sample size is fine. Your other concerns, however, are quite valid.

Agree shut em down altogether 

but that gonna kill tourism here for sure!!

What  about  the  people  behind  bars?

Out of your own mouth miamiman not a sensible post. 

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Obviously no money from international tourist is bad. But what is the alternative?

Until now Thailand has very few Covid cases and very very few death. How would that change if tourists come into Thailand unchecked? Do we need to have hundreds of dead people everyday to act? Or is it better to stay alert so that the situation does not get worse?

Maybe just open i.e. Phuket for international tourist - and close them for everybody else. And then see what happens.

I don't have an answer, because I do not know the stats on deaths due to depression, suicide, lack of medical care because of lack of money, etc. Life and death calculations are by definition cold-blooded, but necessary.

 

Somebody---I assume those who hold authority---has to make the determination as to whether keeping 8 million people jobless, sending hotels and restaurants into bankruptcy protection, sending the national air carrier into bankruptcy protection, etc., is better than opening borders and screening arrivals as best one can. I have seen an alarming rise in homeless in Bangkok, both men and women, and even young people. Perhaps I have not seen those passing away, alone, in a hospital, in quarantine.  Both situations are horrific. It is likely a proper decision cannot be made until more data is analyzed regarding the actual virulence of CV-19 and an accurate assessment of the danger can be made. I sit in neither camp---open up or keep closed---because the data is incomplete. All I see are the initial numbers (deaths + infected) vs unemployed. Both engender sympathy. I might be willing to take my chances, but I cannot impose that desire on anyone else.

 

This is uncharted territory, both in Thailand and worldwide. Opening or closing bars and nightclubs (this article) is but one aspect, important to some, less so to others. Leadership has difficult decisions and many constituencies to please. One hopes it is well-thought out, because none of us has that decision-making authority. One hopes.

47 minutes ago, time2093 said:

So people are in favor of packed BTS and MRT trains everyday but pubs and nightclubs are dangerous. Typical Thai logic.

true, and pubs would be fine. They cant open nightclubs anyway, everyone will be arrested for breaking the curfew 555

Look, all I want is a quiet beer in congenial company. Is it really too much to ask for the Windmill to reopen?

 

SE Asia is naturally resistant to these infections. If it comes back it'll be the Chinese and we'll be ready for it. You can't shut down 20% of the economy for a few dozen deaths, that's just a couple of boat accidents.

29 minutes ago, hackjam said:

Cannot risk opening up all bars right now, those Thai style late night pubs, where Thais get totally legless, would be impossible to manage social distancing. As would open air beer bars with drunken foreigners.

I do reckon that certain bars, should be allowed serve alcohol, so long as they can demonstrate managing social distancing, would need doorstaff, control of numbers entering, turning people away when bar is at capacity etc.

 

Won't happen, once the beer goggles are on distancing goes out the door. If there will be a ban then it will be blanket IMO

Well it was a heck of a lot more than 18% of the population that wanted the ban on booze sales to end, more like 80% I'd say, so I think I'll treat this survey with the contempt it deserves.

I'm in favor of keeping all the bars, pubs, and discos closed. I always have been, actually. ????

All this is total Bullshxt based on the fact that if you go to the market people are mere inches from one another. There were at least a 1000 people at a market in Sattahip about 2 days ago. They were wearing masks but with everyone touching everything if they had the virus someone would get it. To tell me bars should stay closed and markets open is beyond stupid. 

 "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - whoever really said it first.

Why not make a poll about believing in polls.

Ask at least some hundred working at polls institutes ????

38 minutes ago, bodga said:

What  about  the  people  behind  bars?

 

            Keep them isolated ..

Them beer bars in the open air are fine. Less risk than going into a shop or riding the BTS. Like other countries they need to be innovative and look after their small business people.

 

In some countries they are thinking about allowing outside areas in bars and restaurants to open. They are even allowing bars with no outside areas to use the pavement outside their premises to sell food and drinks.

 

If we want to save the economy safely and maintain our standard of living we have to change the rules we are used to. Otherwise we put a huge sector of the economy out of business with all the knock on effects.

Another reason for the mass exodus of tourists to Vietnam and Cambodia. Can't even get a drink in a restaurant with a meal let alone a bar

With a bit of spacing between seats & no tourists anyway pubs should be able to open.

Serving people who have been here for the whole shutdown is certainly no worse than my ride on the BTS yesterday or Chatuchak market corridor crowding

Discos & nightclubs a bit later.

Once the tourists are allowed back in Pubs that will be the testing point, Pubs open or not

43 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

I don't have an answer, because I do not know the stats on deaths due to depression, suicide, lack of medical care because of lack of money, etc. Life and death calculations are by definition cold-blooded, but necessary.

 

Somebody---I assume those who hold authority---has to make the determination as to whether keeping 8 million people jobless, sending hotels and restaurants into bankruptcy protection, sending the national air carrier into bankruptcy protection, etc., is better than opening borders and screening arrivals as best one can. I have seen an alarming rise in homeless in Bangkok, both men and women, and even young people. Perhaps I have not seen those passing away, alone, in a hospital, in quarantine.  Both situations are horrific. It is likely a proper decision cannot be made until more data is analyzed regarding the actual virulence of CV-19 and an accurate assessment of the danger can be made. I sit in neither camp---open up or keep closed---because the data is incomplete. All I see are the initial numbers (deaths + infected) vs unemployed. Both engender sympathy. I might be willing to take my chances, but I cannot impose that desire on anyone else.

 

This is uncharted territory, both in Thailand and worldwide. Opening or closing bars and nightclubs (this article) is but one aspect, important to some, less so to others. Leadership has difficult decisions and many constituencies to please. One hopes it is well-thought out, because none of us has that decision-making authority. One hopes.

Great comment!

 

I agree there is still a lot unknown. And now tests exist. But how good and how fast are they? I.e. if someone was infected on a flight to Thailand would he show as Covid positive on arrival. I guess that is very unlikely. So how long does it take before it is sure that people are not infected? Maybe tests will get better soon any maybe in a month it takes only a day or two, maybe...

I know people who worked in a hotel and I know bar owners and people who worked in bars. Sure, nobody like to make no money. But on the other hand nobody likes to get infected.

I read horror stories from people in the UK and USA who have to go back to work and who are scared. 

I think Thailand's tax payers, me included, should be ready to pay to help the people who have no money because of this situation.

All in all which situation is worse? I think one look at the USA is enough to decide to better be careful.

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thailand can survive without foreign tourists for a year or two.

 

I doubt that very much ... what % or their GDP is in tourism?

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Leadership has difficult decisions and many constituencies to please

They will make those decisions based on how much dosh will go into their pockets

Only 18.03% said open the bars again.

Obviously these were the bar owners who want to get back to making money.  ????????????

2 hours ago, Canuck1966 said:

1259 puritan junta lovers isn't representative of the country

 

Thousands and thousands of jobs on the line 

thousands and thousands of lives are on the line, problem is drunkards just don't give a ****

3 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

thousands and thousands of lives are on the line, problem is drunkards just don't give a ****

Utter hogwash, ridiculous fear mongering

 

4 minutes ago, from the home of CC said:

thousands and thousands of lives are on the line, problem is drunkards just don't give a ****

I know you are one of the puritanical junta fans so your response was expected

Just don't track my movements. It's a waste of time anyway. I get sick will they contact the hundreds of places I've been and the thousands of people who also visited those places? A logistical nightmare.