English teacher with poor pronunciation sparks online storm

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

Amen! The whole idea is to be able to communicate, anything beyond that is just icing on the cake. I wonder how many of the people complaining can speak a language other than English? I also wonder how good their English is, or isn't, as the case may be? Stones, glass houses, and all that stuff... ????

Not the point, she is there to teach English, not garble.... 

 

[RANGER55]

32 minutes ago, Phil McCaverty said:

I meant in their own countries as I'm sure you know.

So, the people in Mexico or Central America speak this thing you call English English instead of US English. Can you tell us exactly where this English English comes from? Are you referring to the Queens English? Not the UK, I have been there numerous times and depends on where you are at and how much everyone has had to drink.

You do know a lot of the English language comes from numerous other languages, spelling, pronunciation or meaning of words. The English language is constantly changing. Just listen to the younger people now. Someone 18 years old now will probably say 60 years from now. Why are they not speaking proper English.

[n00dle]

31 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I'm not threatened at all. We have an international language and that is English, not the English spoken/written in the USA. If the international language was US or French for that matter, I'd happily comply.

 

When my wife's son comes home and asks for an 'eraser' instead of a rubber, it can get a little confusing. You may be comfortable with both forms of the language but put yourself in the shoes of a 10 year old boy who's mother tongue is tonal, has very little in the way of tenses, no full stops etc. etc. They don't need anything further to make things even more difficult for them.

 

All languages 'evolve' - we are not talking about evolution, we are talking about a version of the language that often uses completely different words. That is OK for you, I also understand the differences - its very easy for us but why have to teach a non English speaker both versions?

 

Those who teach English also know the differences, why teach the wrong version?

 

UK's fading influence? 555, I won't sink to your level but your attempted insult means goes straight over my head. What is your impression of the US's current 'influence'? Unlike the US, I think you will find that most English people don't give a damn about our 'influence' - its not something that matters to us.

The US government is is a steaming pile of dung in my opinion, yet another government that has gotten too big for its britches and rests on former perception of its own glory.

 

I feel the same about the uk government while experiencing no ill will to the average citizen. Same for china.

 

I do admit I couldnt resist the dig though.

 

but that is neither here nor there.

 

Personally I am ecstatic my daughter has never come home in pants in search of a rubber.

 

We all have our pet peeves, I detest the turning of nouns into verbs ie "how will this impact the economy", but that is no bar to my understanding of the statement.

 

But why not provide gradual exposure to both variants? They are only synomyms after all, and like it or not the variants are coming together. The mechanics, grammar and punctuation, are for all intents the same.

 

And you are not without choice as to how you could have your child schooled, both british and american curriculums are available to you here.

 

But thailands government  has decided to align with a more American curriculum, so putting your child in a government school is a decision in itself.

 

I made sure my daughter had a selection of books by both uk and amercan authours (among others) and once she could read for herself she did question some of the differences she noted. 

 

In fact one of the benefits of reading is to grow in both perspective and vocabulary.

 

It wasnt that difficult or confusing to explain that both were right, and why. Nor was it difficult to explain why the school perferred one version to the other.

 

The problem came when her ability surpassed the level of her teachers due to her daily contact with me, which was when she attended a different school.

 

Edit: I see now you said your wifes son, and you may not have the same stake in his education, nor been present in the early yesrs to have helped him form a strong base in english or in fact be responsible for his education. But I do believe, that it woild be not that difficult to adjust curriculum to make arudents aware of variations in the languge as they learn.

 

Sadly that is a long way if even if the change was one the educators here were willing to make. 

 

But compared to the example of the teacher in the video variants of english are small beer compared the the other issues of basic incompetence. 

Edited May 20, 2020 by n00dle

[Silent Number]

35 minutes ago, n00dle said:

Ideally, any english learning would expose students to a number of moderate regional accents.

 

Kiwi, Aus, canadian, South African, varied us and uk regional versions europen english speakers etc.

 

But, in person, that would cost a shedload of money and is unlikely.

 

It would make sense to prepare materials for comprehension exercises that are varied however.

The cheapest way to learn correct English and spelling is join Thai Visa. I get grammatically corrected and spellchecked regularly.....for free.

[newnative]

6 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

American English isn't English? Tell that to everyone who speaks it. American English is the most influential English in the world. And even though I was born in the US, I'm not taking sides, as the US is a melting pot of all countries.

Agree.  And most people I meet who speak English as a second language will speak American English--and likely to become even more so in the future.  

[Reigntax]

23 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

Many people fail to understand that Thai people are learning English as a second language and NOT first language.

 

It's perfectly normal not to speak perfect English as long as people can understand them.

 

I've known many foreigners who still can't speak perfect Thai after many years of studying Thai.

 

 

 

But they aren't trying to teach. I would expect the ability of any student to learn a language properly to be limited to the teachers ability.

 

Class's ????????

Edited May 20, 2020 by Reigntax

[Phil McCaverty]

3 minutes ago, newnative said:

Agree.  And most people I meet who speak English as a second language will speak American English--and likely to become even more so in the future.  

American? 555

[flinc2020]

This problem is not just here in Thailand. I taught in an international school in China where I taught history, health, science and literature but NOT English conversation. That was taught by a Chinese teacher who could not hold a simple conversation in English and operated his class on the basis of speaking Chinese interspurced with a few English words then giving the students a 2 page handout to read aloud. His low level of teaching made my classes far more difficult. If the students (and to be fair many of them spoke better English than he did) can't manage simple sentences in English how are they meant to follow a science or history lesson? Even his handouts were abyssmal. I got into the habit of stealing a copy, correcting it and handing it out during my lessons.

Now, having said that, there is one major difference between teachers like my Chinese colleague and Thai English teachers. Many, if not most, of the Chinese English teachers I dealt with admitted openly that they found holding conversations in English difficu;t and that they had issues with pronunciation. I have NEVER met a Thai English teacher willing to make the same confession. They truly believe that THEY have the correct pronunciation (because they are THAI and therefore never wrong) and it is the native speaker that is wrong. I have actually found myself in a classroom being berated it broken English for "teaching the students bad pronunciation" because I pronounced a word correctly, not the way she did! So, seeing that TV thing, doesn't surprise me that it has government support.

[harleyclarkey]

On 5/19/2020 at 9:57 AM, watso63 said:

Well without a video with audio what's the point of this "news" as we are unable to judge for ourselves. 

Eye haf oddeeo....   why yuu no haf? 

[n00dle]

4 minutes ago, flinc2020 said:

This problem is not just here in Thailand. I taught in an international school in China where I taught history, health, science and literature but NOT English conversation. That was taught by a Chinese teacher who could not hold a simple conversation in English and operated his class on the basis of speaking Chinese interspurced with a few English words then giving the students a 2 page handout to read aloud. His low level of teaching made my classes far more difficult. If the students (and to be fair many of them spoke better English than he did) can't manage simple sentences in English how are they meant to follow a science or history lesson? Even his handouts were abyssmal. I got into the habit of stealing a copy, correcting it and handing it out during my lessons.

Now, having said that, there is one major difference between teachers like my Chinese colleague and Thai English teachers. Many, if not most, of the Chinese English teachers I dealt with admitted openly that they found holding conversations in English difficu;t and that they had issues with pronunciation. I have NEVER met a Thai English teacher willing to make the same confession. They truly believe that THEY have the correct pronunciation (because they are THAI and therefore never wrong) and it is the native speaker that is wrong. I have actually found myself in a classroom being berated it broken English for "teaching the students bad pronunciation" because I pronounced a word correctly, not the way she did! So, seeing that TV thing, doesn't surprise me that it has government support.

forgive me for pointing it out,  but you lost me at "interspurced"

[fredwiggy]

21 minutes ago, n00dle said:

The US government is is a steaming pile of dung in my opinion, yet another government that has gotten too big for its britches and rests on former perception of its own glory.

 

I feel the same about the uk government while experiencing no ill will to the average citizen. Same for china.

 

I do admit I couldnt resist the dig though.

 

but that is neither here nor there.

 

Personally I am ecstatic my daughter has never come home in pants in search of a rubber.

 

We all have our pet peeves, I detest the turning of nouns into verbs ie "how will this impact the economy", but that is no bar to my understanding of the statement.

 

But why not provide gradual exposure to both variants? They are only synomyms after all, and like it or not the variants are coming together. The mechanics, grammar and punctuation, are for all intents the same.

 

And you are not without choice as to how you could have your child schooled, both british and american curriculums are available to you here.

 

But thailands government  has decided to align with a more American curriculum, so putting your child in a government school is a decision in itself.

 

I made sure my daughter had a selection of books by both uk and amercan authours (among others) and once she could read for herself she did question some of the differences she noted. 

 

In fact one of the benefits of reading is to grow in both perspective and vocabulary.

 

It wasnt that difficult or confusing to explain that both were right, and why. Nor was it difficult to explain why the school perferred one version to the other.

 

The problem came when her ability surpassed the level of her teachers due to her daily contact with me, which was when she attended a different school.

 

Edit: I see now you said your wifes son, and you may not have the same stake in his education, nor been present in the early yesrs to have helped him form a strong base in english or in fact be responsible for his education. But I do believe, that it woild be not that difficult to adjust curriculum to make arudents aware of variations in the languge as they learn.

 

Sadly that is a long way if even if the change was one the educators here were willing to make. 

 

But compared to the example of the teacher in the video variants of english are small beer compared the the other issues of basic incompetence. 

You know, I don't disagree with what you are saying here but, you corrected me for using one long paragraph, while you use one sentence after another and space them, even though a lot of it is the same topic. That's wrong. I type without stopping, and sometimes I change topics, therefor I should start a new paragraph. Paragraphs should be 100 to 200 words, unless you're changing topics, and it can be less. And you correct others spelling mistakes while missing your own. Just sayin... And the US government has been crapola for a time. We've had some good presidents, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Bush, Clinton (some things), and Reagan, in recent times, and the one we have now isn't near presidential material, has hesitated and cost American lives, is a egotist, misogynist, racist fool that needs to be ousted. He spent money on a wall that isn't helping much, where the money should have gone to medical for everyone like Canada has. Whether Biden will do things better will remain to be seen, IF hes elected. I pray for my family and friends back home he is elected though. America needs a change.

Edited May 20, 2020 by fredwiggy

[Bob A Kneale]

20 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Having a regional accent can detract from  learning the correct pronunciation.

"Having a regional accent..."

Like a lot of Americans, then.

[mrfill]

1 hour ago, RANGER55 said:

Yes, there we were 300-400 odd years ago thinking, we need to think of this word to name this thing that will be on top of this other thing. Hey I know, let’s call it a BONNET and it will set on top of something to be invented later. It will fold upward and be held in place by leather straps.

 

Till then feel welcomed to use it to describe like 20 different things. We can let the ladies use it for the hat they wear, but they don’t have to use the leather strap to hold it on, to rough!

So, that’s the gold standard for deciding which is the proper version of the English language, HOOD or BONNET.

I know it can be disheartening that Google, Microsoft word, spell checkers mostly use the Yank English!

Whereas we all know a trunk is that long thing at the front of an elephant. And a hood is part of a monk's outfit isn't it?

[fredwiggy]

People in every English speaking country use improper grammar, spelling and pronunciation. I lived in America for 62 years and even though some have said things that were wrong, I still could understand what they were saying. I can't say that about some other accents I've heard, from other countries. American English accent is easier to learn than the English accent.

[flinc2020]

3 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Whereas we all know a trunk is that long thing at the front of an elephant. And a hood is part of a monk's outfit isn't it?

Oh and don't forget that half way across the Atlantic we forgot how to pronounce the letter Z and that the letter U even exists.......

[Baerboxer]

29 minutes ago, flinc2020 said:

This problem is not just here in Thailand. I taught in an international school in China where I taught history, health, science and literature but NOT English conversation. That was taught by a Chinese teacher who could not hold a simple conversation in English and operated his class on the basis of speaking Chinese interspurced with a few English words then giving the students a 2 page handout to read aloud. His low level of teaching made my classes far more difficult. If the students (and to be fair many of them spoke better English than he did) can't manage simple sentences in English how are they meant to follow a science or history lesson? Even his handouts were abyssmal. I got into the habit of stealing a copy, correcting it and handing it out during my lessons.

Now, having said that, there is one major difference between teachers like my Chinese colleague and Thai English teachers. Many, if not most, of the Chinese English teachers I dealt with admitted openly that they found holding conversations in English difficu;t and that they had issues with pronunciation. I have NEVER met a Thai English teacher willing to make the same confession. They truly believe that THEY have the correct pronunciation (because they are THAI and therefore never wrong) and it is the native speaker that is wrong. I have actually found myself in a classroom being berated it broken English for "teaching the students bad pronunciation" because I pronounced a word correctly, not the way she did! So, seeing that TV thing, doesn't surprise me that it has government support.

 

Hmmm. I think you also highlight another problem. One with "foreign teachers". 

 

You were teaching a wide array of subjects, history, health, science, and literature (was that English literature?).

 

How many degrees do you have and in which subjects? 

 

This is a problem I see here and in other Asian countries I know.

[Bob A Kneale]

19 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The school books are got from...

"...are got from..."

Gawd...and you're teaching English?

[flinc2020]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Hmmm. I think you also highlight another problem. One with "foreign teachers". 

 

You were teaching a wide array of subjects, history, health, science, and literature (was that English literature?).

 

How many degrees do you have and in which subjects? 

 

This is a problem I see here and in other Asian countries I know.

I was teaching a wide array of subjects, from textbooks (American literature as it happens) and no, I don't have a degree related to history, or literature. I do, however, have a B.Sc. (admittedly it's in Psychology) and 23 years in the medical field as a trauma specialist. I taught those subjects because that is what the International School (American based) wanted. The job I went there for was English teacher, only after all the contracts etc. were completed did I find out what I was teaching. To be fair, it was a challenge but one I was willing to go with. I studied the material then created lessons based on what I had learned that would be achievable for the students. If you can teach, you can teach, all you need to do is learn first. 

[USNret]

Dang, everyone must be bored today. 

[Boyblue]

We had a delivery by "Kerry Express" at home, my wife told me the Curry man had arrived, when I explained it was Kerry and not Curry, she told me that was how Thai's pronounced it, so I asked her for a Green Kerry for tea...... she wasn't impressed..... LOL

[allen303]

4 hours ago, watthong said:

For verification, all my Philipino American friends, except for their offsprings who were born in America (to be specific, the USA) don't speak American English. They speak Tagalog-English. Somewhere along this thread it was described as "sing-song" English. Similar to what you hear from an Indian (from India), though at a bit slower pace, but not by much. Though that doesn't rule out the possibility of some Philipino from the Philippines who speak American English and come to teach English in Bangkok...

 

I once met a young Vietnamese girl working at the reception of a language learning center in Dalat, VN. When she answered me in English I thought she comes from California. When asked, she said she has never set foot outside her hometown.

Reading your comment about the Vietnamese lady so going to add. As for the post about 50 back that stated no Asian can speak English without an accent. I have meet numerous Asians with no accent. Good examples.

 

We were sitting in a sports bar in Biloxi Mississippi on the Gulf Coast, way south. Watched a Vietnamese couple walk in with their two daughters around 18-20s. They left the two at the bar, both dressed to the max, designer bags and cloths. The bartender gave them the lunch menu. When they started to speak it was amazing. If we were not looking at them, we would have said two girls right off the bayous of Mississippi. What an amazing combination, Asian beauty with a Mississippi accent. Another thing, they ordered a hamburger and fries and ate the entire meal with their knife and fork, never touching it with their hands.

 

Have a good Korean friend around 50, retired from the Air Force. Was adopted from Korea when she was around 1 ½ years old and raised in NW Florida/Lower Alabama. Speaks with a southern accent, no way would you know she was Korean.

[Number 6]

On 5/19/2020 at 3:47 PM, webfact said:

teaching bad English.

Lol

 

 

Once a year I run into a  student with amazing English aquired in weird and wonderful ways. Often to my surprise they've never left the country. One girl told me she learned over YouTube. Competitive speaker once told me she fights with herself in English while looking in the mirror. Not for any debate value but just to use the language. Known a few young students you'd think they grew up in Southern California and got shipped back in divorce. Never left the country.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Number 6

[rvaviator]

9 hours ago, colinneil said:

Geography !!  Behave yourself, this is Thailand, only country in the World that matters.

My wife school director, asked me is Turkey next to England.

She has absolutely no idea about World geography.

I assume you were polite and said that compared to the South Pole. Yes, Turkey is just next to England ????

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, Artisi said:

Not the point, she is there to teach English, not garble....

I wasn't commenting on her. She absolutely sukked. It was a travesty. I couldn't understand a lot of what she was saying.

[n00dle]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

You know, I don't disagree with what you are saying here but, you corrected me for using one long paragraph, while you use one sentence after another and space them, even though a lot of it is the same topic. That's wrong. I type without stopping, and sometimes I change topics, therefor I should start a new paragraph. Paragraphs should be 100 to 200 words, unless you're changing topics, and it can be less. And you correct others spelling mistakes while missing your own. Just sayin... And the US government has been crapola for a time. We've had some good presidents, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Bush, Clinton (some things), and Reagan, in recent times, and the one we have now isn't near presidential material, has hesitated and cost American lives, is a egotist, misogynist, racist fool that needs to be ousted. He spent money on a wall that isn't helping much, where the money should have gone to medical for everyone like Canada has. Whether Biden will do things better will remain to be seen, IF hes elected. I pray for my family and friends back home he is elected though. America needs a change.

Fixed it for ya.

 

 

Parapraphs are not solely about topics, but about ideas and points, about pacing, about readability and clarity and for emphasis.

 

And yes I make mistakes and mispellings, but they are generally typos. I am wiriting on a tablet, and not expending any real effort. 

 

If you can not see that this is more clear than the original, I cant help you.

 

--------,----------,-,,

You know, I don't disagree with what you are saying here but, you corrected me for using one long paragraph, while you use one sentence after another and space them, even though a lot of it is the same topic.

 

That's wrong.

 

I type without stopping, and sometimes I change topics, therefor I should start a new paragraph. Paragraphs should be 100 to 200 words, unless you're changing topics, and it can be less.

 

And you correct others spelling mistakes while missing your own. Just sayin...

 

And the US government has been crapola for a time. We've had some good presidents, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Bush, Clinton (some things), and Reagan, in recent times.

 

The one we have now isn't near presidential material, has hesitated and cost American lives, is a egotist, misogynist, racist fool that needs to be ousted.

 

He spent money on a wall that isn't helping much, where the money should have gone to medical for everyone like Canada has.

 

Whether Biden will do things better will remain to be seen, IF hes elected. I pray for my family and friends back home he is elected though.

 

America needs a change.

Edited May 20, 2020 by n00dle

[chilli42]

I don’t recall being taught any foreign language in grade school or high school where the teacher was not a native speaker of the language.  Why would you expect different than this from someone who likely never even lived overseas?

[puipuitom]

No wonder the knowledge but especially prononciation skills of what is called "English" is so lousy bad with Thai people..

[DrTuner]

1 hour ago, fredwiggy said:

People in every English speaking country use improper grammar, spelling and pronunciation. I lived in America for 62 years and even though some have said things that were wrong, I still could understand what they were saying. I can't say that about some other accents I've heard, from other countries. American English accent is easier to learn than the English accent.

Once you spend time in international communities, you'll get used to all sort of accents and start to understand and even imitate them or develop a non-specific way of speaking yourself, "international English". If you come from a native speaking English country, paradoxically I've noticed they have more trouble with foreign accents than non-native speakers and are often very unwilling to learn, stating that their brummie accent is the one and only that shall be used by all the humanity.

[rvaviator]

5 hours ago, lks7689 said:

Maybe she learnt her English from tukky, who had a comedy show on TV as an English teacher with poor pronunciation.

My GF told me that the videos are old - Not that it excuses the poor English. Apparently the recordings was done a few years ago.

[Andre0720]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2020 at 5:57 PM, fredwiggy said:

Any native speaking English teacher can teach any Thai student just by speaking, IF they speak correct English. Teaching grammar is a different story and best to be left to those with skills.

Yes, there is the accent, and then there is the ubiquitous 'You talk with she'