Can anyone recommend a lawyer?

[Paul52]

Hi,

 

I hope I’m posting this in the right section.  I couldn’t find a specific section for non visa related legal matters.

 

I live in Roi Et province with my wife.  I’m giving her money to build a house on some land she bought a few years ago.  I’m 54 and she’s 46.  I’m thinking ahead to what happens if she were to die before me.  The most likely thing is that I’ll go first, but if she were to die before me, I would want to have the legal right to stay in the house as long as I needed to.  I know that I can’t own the land/property, but I read that a 30 year lease might be an option.  Does anyone know a good lawyer either specialising in property law or with good experience of property law who could help me with the legal side?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

Cheers, Paul

[Kwasaki]

https://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Leases.php

[Pilotman]

There are a lot of good firms out there, Siam Legal is one of the most high profile, bit expensive I think , but they know what they are doing.  We have used them for a couple of issues we needed to get sorted and that worked out okay.  Find them on google .  Ah, I just see that Kwasaki has posted a link . 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Pilotman

[Paul52]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

There are a lot of good firms out there, Siam Legal is one of the most high profile, bit expensive I think , but they know what they are doing.  We have used them for a couple of issues we needed to get sorted and that worked out okay.  Find them on google .  Ah, I just see that Kwasaki has posted a link . 

Thanks, I did already get a quote from Siam Legal.  As you say, they are good, but extremely expensive because they don’t offer fixed rate fees.  Siam Legal’s fees were coming out at somewhere between 100,000 - 200,000 Baht (or possibly more).  I’m hoping I can find someone who’ll do it on a fixed rate basis.

[blackcab]

Moved to the Real Estate forum.

[CharlieH]

As you are in Roi et this would be better placed in the Isaan forum for local knowledge and input.

 

MOVED to Isaan forum

[Pilotman]

1 minute ago, Paul52 said:

Thanks, I did already get a quote from Siam Legal.  As you say, they are good, but extremely expensive because they don’t offer fixed rate fees.  Siam Legal’s fees were coming out at somewhere between 100,000 - 200,000 Baht (or possibly more).  I’m hoping I can find someone who’ll do it on a fixed rate basis.

Oh that is expensive.  You can do it cheaper than that. My second advice is something we do for more minor legal stuff.  We have a local qualified lawyer, a young chap trying to make his way, who does minor work on producing legal documents. He does Thai and English, so you can deal with him directly.  Not sure where you are, but this chap operates from an office in Nong Bua Lumphu and is of course contactable regardless of where you live.  he is Mr Natthawut Niyomlao,  Registration Number: 249/2548.  His phone number is : 0872183377.   Good luck.

[Peter Denis]

@Tanoshi may be able to provide you with some good advice on the issue you are facing.

[Paul52]

29 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Oh that is expensive.  You can do it cheaper than that. My second advice is something we do for more minor legal stuff.  We have a local qualified lawyer, a young chap trying to make his way, who does minor work on producing legal documents. He does Thai and English, so you can deal with him directly.  Not sure where you are, but this chap operates from an office in Nong Bua Lumphu and is of course contactable regardless of where you live.  he is Mr Natthawut Niyomlao,  Registration Number: 249/2548.  His phone number is : 0872183377.   Good luck.

Thank you so much.  That’s excellent.  Really appreciate the help.

[Pilotman]

2 hours ago, Paul52 said:

Thank you so much.  That’s excellent.  Really appreciate the help.

I strongly suggest that you use a Thai lawyer, not a farang lawyer who practices Thai law.  I have found that too many of them do not know the system well enough, or the documentation accurately enough, or speak and read Thai fluently enough, to ensure that you get what you want and what is correct in all aspects.  There will be exceptions to this of course, but my experience has told me to stay clear of farang lawyers, unless you are dealing with a very big law firm. who employs both farangs and Thais. 

[fredwiggy]

25 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I strongly suggest that you use a Thai lawyer, not a farang lawyer who practices Thai law.  I have found that too many of them do not know the system well enough, or the documentation accurately enough, or speak and read Thai fluently enough, to ensure that you get what you want and what is correct in all aspects.  There will be exceptions to this of course, but my experience has told me to stay clear of farang lawyers, unless you are dealing with a very big law firm. who employs both farangs and Thais. 

That's Isaan lawyers

[happylarry]

You need to do two things.....

1, arrange a usufruct on the property which gives you the right to stay in the house for the rest of your life.

2, get your wife to write a will leaving the house to you. You will then have one year to sell the property or put it in another Thai persons name.

[Tanoshi]

@Paul52

 

Siam Legal and Isaan Lawyers are both to far away and expensive.

 

Lots of English speaking Thai lawyers local in Roi Et.

You need an usufruct which protects your right to remain in the house in the event of your wife's death.

You don't need a lawyer to draft a Will either, very easy to do yourself.

If you need translations, I can give you information on that as well.

 

I live in Roi Et city.

Send me a PM.

[malt25]

I have used and can recommend Isaan Lawyers.  https://www.isaanlawyers.com/our-team/  

[Tanoshi]

15 minutes ago, jayboy said:

It's possible of course to self draft or retain a cut price bottom feeder but if there are any slight deviations from bog standard requirements - as there usually are - it is prudent to have a competent lawyer or very experienced legal executive involved in the drafting.

It's also possible to get a comprehensive pre drafted Will in English, requiring only your personal details, name of executors and beneficiaries from the same competent lawyers for free.

Complete and translate to Thai.

[colinneil]

Well you better imagine, because i did, and i was perfectly happy to do it.

[jayboy]

9 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Well you better imagine, because i did, and i was perfectly happy to do it.

Perhaps you fall into the category I defined.Whether you were happy to do it is neither here nor there.The only sure test is what happens after one's death, and specifically if there is some kind of a dispute .If - in the event of a problem arising after your demise - you are content to leave the resolution in the hands of low level officials with nobody to insist on the law being applied, your wishes respected and generally to fight your corner, so be it.

 

I accept that in that scenario, it won't trouble you too much.

[happylarry]

I keep reading about doing wills at amphurs or doing it yourselves etc. but what nobody mentions is that every single case where assets are passed from one person to another it needs to go to court, whether the person has made a will or not at all. 

The reason being that the banks, land office or motor licencing office require the will etc to be proved to be legal and not fake. So you need a court order to give to the bank in order to release any funds, or to change land ownership or motor ownership. For this reason alone it is worth having the will drawn up by a professional so that there are no problems with the judge and it is accepted ok.

[colinneil]

42 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Perhaps you fall into the category I defined.Whether you were happy to do it is neither here nor there.The only sure test is what happens after one's death, and specifically if there is some kind of a dispute .If - in the event of a problem arising after your demise - you are content to leave the resolution in the hands of low level officials with nobody to insist on the law being applied, your wishes respected and generally to fight your corner, so be it.

 

I accept that in that scenario, it won't trouble you too much.

First i do not fall into any of your categories, i am me, an individual.

Second, everything i have in Thailand, bank accounts, vehicles in fact everything goes to my wife.

Third i would trust low level officials, as you call them , before i would trust any damned lawyer.

[jayboy]

8 minutes ago, colinneil said:

First i do not fall into any of your categories, i am me, an individual.

Second, everything i have in Thailand, bank accounts, vehicles in fact everything goes to my wife.

Third i would trust low level officials, as you call them , before i would trust any damned lawyer.

Looks as though you fall very neatly into the category I referred to.Good luck to you.

[happylarry]

6 minutes ago, colinneil said:

First i do not fall into any of your categories, i am me, an individual.

Second, everything i have in Thailand, bank accounts, vehicles in fact everything goes to my wife.

Third i would trust low level officials, as you call them , before i would trust any damned lawyer.

Ok mate, well good luck to your wife then, when she tries to get the money out of your bank account without the court order.

Its law.....upon death your bank accounts are frozen and it then needs a court order to get the funds released. In order to go to court your wife will need to use a lawyer, so it does not matter what you think about lawyers, she will use one or not get the money. Simple as that.

I’m not trying to be difficult or talk you or anybody down, just stating the law.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, jayboy said:

The only sure test is what happens after one's death, and specifically if there is some kind of a dispute .If - in the event of a problem arising after your demise - you are content to leave the resolution in the hands of low level officials with nobody to insist on the law being applied, your wishes respected and generally to fight your corner, so be it.

If there is any kind of dispute, a simple but effective clause inserted in the Will takes care of that scenario.

 

If you want to name a low level official as the Executor that's your choice.

Usually the Executor and the beneficiary would be your wife/husband.

Under Thai law your wife/husband is automatically the beneficiary of your estate, unless a Will names another.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, happylarry said:

I keep reading about doing wills at amphurs or doing it yourselves etc. but what nobody mentions is that every single case where assets are passed from one person to another it needs to go to court, whether the person has made a will or not at all. 

Your incorrect. Just ask any bank how a husband/wife usually access funds of the deceased with or without a Will in place. You can also add your wife to your account, with any single person allowed access and withdraw, so it's not frozen in the event of death.

 

Even in the event of the bank freezing an account, with a Will in place and without a lawyer it takes about 3 weeks to petition the Family Court and obtain the necessary Court Order.

 

3 hours ago, happylarry said:

The reason being that the banks, land office or motor licencing office require the will etc to be proved to be legal and not fake. So you need a court order to give to the bank in order to release any funds, or to change land ownership or motor ownership. For this reason alone it is worth having the will drawn up by a professional so that there are no problems with the judge and it is accepted ok.

Again the spouse is automatically entitled to the estate.

Production of the spouse's death certificate and proof you are the legal spouse is often enough for these offices to change the name of ownership for land and vehicles.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, happylarry said:

Ok mate, well good luck to your wife then, when she tries to get the money out of your bank account without the court order.

Its law.....upon death your bank accounts are frozen and it then needs a court order to get the funds released. In order to go to court your wife will need to use a lawyer, so it does not matter what you think about lawyers, she will use one or not get the money. Simple as that.

She won't need a lawyer. Simple as that!

[colinneil]

9 hours ago, happylarry said:

Ok mate, well good luck to your wife then, when she tries to get the money out of your bank account without the court order.

Its law.....upon death your bank accounts are frozen and it then needs a court order to get the funds released. In order to go to court your wife will need to use a lawyer, so it does not matter what you think about lawyers, she will use one or not get the money. Simple as that.

I’m not trying to be difficult or talk you or anybody down, just stating the law.

Sorry to say this but you are wrong, my wife will not need a lawyer.

Arrangements can and have been made with the bank

Dont waste time telling me i am wrong, because i am not, one thing that helps is knowing your bank manager.

Amazing what can be done if you have a good/ helpful manager, mine visits our home, sits at the table eats with us, wife and manager being good friends since school days certainly helps.

[happylarry]

9 hours ago, colinneil said:

Sorry to say this but you are wrong, my wife will not need a lawyer.

Arrangements can and have been made with the bank

Dont waste time telling me i am wrong, because i am not, one thing that helps is knowing your bank manager.

Amazing what can be done if you have a good/ helpful manager, mine visits our home, sits at the table eats with us, wife and manager being good friends since school days certainly helps.

Ok, you mean outside the law.....well I agree with you .....if you are going to go outside the law then anything goes in Thailand, we all know that. I was simply stating the law from a lawyers perspective.

Anyway It does not really matter to me whether anyone wishes to believe me or not and I am not going to argue with anyone about it so everyone stay safe.

[puchooay]

4 hours ago, happylarry said:

Ok, you mean outside the law.....well I agree with you .....if you are going to go outside the law then anything goes in Thailand, we all know that. I was simply stating the law from a lawyers perspective.

Anyway It does not really matter to me whether anyone wishes to believe me or not and I am not going to argue with anyone about it so everyone stay safe.

A lawyer's perspective is not of any importance here as you don't need a lawyer. Even inside the law. Simple.

[ArickChaiyaphum]

Divorce your wife and go to the land office and add your name on the chanote as a usufuct for 1 percent of the land cost and it is yours until you die. Maybe go and do it even if your married no need to waste money on a lawyer the land office will advise you 

 

[khastan]

My number one recommendation for any type of legal issue is Isaan Lawers. If it was not for Sebastian's very wise advice and help many years ago I would have been thrown out of the house I live in now.  Since 2007 he has helped me with numerous issues and can always help no matter what. I cannot recommend both him and his company enough.

Edited July 8, 2020 by khastan

[llugguss]

As an immigrant, without a citizenship, I inherited a house in Florida from my uncle and I had difficulties with registration of ownership.