Embezzlement of juristic person's money... what ultimately happens

[digbeth]

I have both a house in a mooban and a condo... from unrelated developers and ages apart.... both are now suffering from problems of embezzlement that has just come to light.

 

In case where it's just the office employee doing it... if they flee, it's too much trouble to chase after them if they don't have any assets right? how much would become economical to start hiring.

 

But in one case, a committee member/president who is also a resident/co-owner in the condo and owns multiple units... after lengthy court battles, if it was won, can a lien be put on her units like as if it was normal debt to the condo situation?

 

 

Peoperty management seem like a dead-end job, you manage the place for seemingly rich a-holes in houses and rooms you can't ever afford, unless they find a side hustle as a real estate agent the temptation to take from the condo/mooban is very tempting.

[Peterw42]

I think you will find any debt collection falls under the "Debt Collection Act". If a case went to court, the court would decide the conditions of repayment

[phantomfiddler]

Generally when a condominium is built, the people who paid for the construction still act as if they own it even after all units have been sold, and the money collected from condo fees is theirs to do with as they wish ???? Any legal attempt to oust this "management" would be extremely difficult, lengthy, and expensive, and would probably be unsuccessful.

[donmuang37]

We own a house in a gated community. My wife is president of the board of directors. She learned that the Treasurer was missing 130,000 baht!  Community members typically complained bitterly, but were unwilling to take any action, even the board.  So my wife went to the police and filed charges. In court, the Treasurer was very cocky until the judge found her guilty and told here she could repay it or go to jail along with her accomplice husband.  Sudden humility! It took 6 months, but she repaid every baht!  

[mwbrown]

An office employee stole nearly 800,000 baht out of our condo bank accounts.  He confessed by email and we went to the police to file charges, but you can imagine how that went.  Handed off to 3 different policemen, with no action.  Then it was presented to the courts, no action.  We finally worked with the man on a repayment plan which to my surprise he actually fully completed.  Still no repercussion for his action though.

 

Bottom line: Nothing official is going to happen.  Best to try to work something out

[maprao]

57 minutes ago, donmuang37 said:

We own a house in a gated community. My wife is president of the board of directors. She learned that the Treasurer was missing 130,000 baht!  Community members typically complained bitterly, but were unwilling to take any action, even the board.  So my wife went to the police and filed charges. In court, the Treasurer was very cocky until the judge found her guilty and told here she could repay it or go to jail along with her accomplice husband.  Sudden humility! It took 6 months, but she repaid every baht!  

Where iin Thailand is this? I apologize for asking as the term "gated community " isn't often used here. 

 

I admire your courage as history here suggests you will be looking over your shoulder for years to come. People commit horrible acts for disputes of 100 baht or less.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by maprao

[digbeth]

2 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Generally when a condominium is built, the people who paid for the construction still act as if they own it even after all units have been sold, and the money collected from condo fees is theirs to do with as they wish ???? Any legal attempt to oust this "management" would be extremely difficult, lengthy, and expensive, and would probably be unsuccessful.

It's not hard to remove developer installed management in a sold out condos. Only reason many stick around is that they are doing a good job and is more convenient to keep around or in case of lower end condos full of first time buyers that don't know any better.

[YT3k72Em]

3 million was stolen from the juristic person account by one of the office staff at my condo. The staff member disappeared. 

The condo took legal action against the bank that released the money and apparently got it all back.

[Jane Dough]

Expect a long hard road in a justice system weighed heavily against victims.

 

I have been involved in several myself over the years. Even ones that I won or were resolved the feeling at the end was one of was it even worth it!

 

Rooster

[MadMuhammad]

9 hours ago, phantomfiddler said:

Generally when a condominium is built, the people who paid for the construction still act as if they own it even after all units have been sold, and the money collected from condo fees is theirs to do with as they wish ???? Any legal attempt to oust this "management" would be extremely difficult, lengthy, and expensive, and would probably be unsuccessful.

A close friend of mine is in a similar position. The developer still owns a couple of units but he sold a majority of the rest of byte property to family And friends from his close knit family in his home country. He’s has majority voting power necuaee of this as well as family on the committee.  
Long story short I believe the issue has going on 7 years now, 5 years in the courts with no end in sight.

[dsj]

In our Condo, we have our bank accounts set up for withdraws is that a minimum of 2 signatures are always need to sign a check or do any bank transactions even reordering checks, and it's only the Condo committee members, and not any staff, that are authorize.  it's not a smart move to allow any staff being able to sign checks or just needing one signature.

 

[Delight]

On 6/5/2020 at 9:22 AM, phantomfiddler said:

Generally when a condominium is built, the people who paid for the construction still act as if they own it even after all units have been sold, and the money collected from condo fees is theirs to do with as they wish ???? Any legal attempt to oust this "management" would be extremely difficult, lengthy, and expensive, and would probably be unsuccessful.

 I cannot agree with your statement.

If I read this right then 'the people who paid for the construction '  is in fact the developer.

I purchased a new condo . Moved in 2007. All the contracts stated that the developer would manage the condo for 3 years, All our fees and utility payments went into a bank account that the developer controlled. This is not illegal. The condo act is remiss in this respect (my opinion).

However after the 3 years  a EGM was convened and the Juristic Person Manager was replaced.

Not difficult if you have enough co -owner support. Impossible without the support.

A co -owner meeting was set up-20% of the total vote have to attend and agree to send a letter to the JPM requesting the EGM. 25% of the total vote(people and proxies) at this EGM required to replace the JPM.

We got 25.6%.

That was the end of the developer.

We also agreed to employ a Management Company. The fees had to be increased to finance this.

[TTSIssues]

My condo is in a similar situation, developer still owns a few condos and the freehold on a number of units that are leased to foreigners. He has decided to just stop paying service charges on them all and owes millions. Some of the residents are trying to take him to court but I doubt he will ever pay up. Sad world when people can just cheat like this and get away with it. 

[SiSePuede419]

On 6/4/2020 at 8:22 PM, phantomfiddler said:

Generally when a condominium is built, the people who paid for the construction still act as if they own it even after all units have been sold, and the money collected from condo fees is theirs to do with as they wish ???? Any legal attempt to oust this "management" would be extremely difficult, lengthy, and expensive, and would probably be unsuccessful.

 

And how is buying a condo better than renting?  Oh yeah....greed. ????

[The Deerhunter]

9 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

 

And how is buying a condo better than renting?  Oh yeah....greed. ????

Owning a condo sounds like a cake walk to me. The developer get to eat his cake and still keep it

[jaf3]

This thread reinforces the question of why anyone would want to buy a condo in the first place. Endless headache and very difficult to sell later except at a loss.